movies/tv The Anime industry is.....what?

[LazuriteDreams* 136]

Ok so about yesterday I remember I was online and I apparently was looking for amvs to watch. So I accidentally stumbled upon an article that was about Hayao Miyazaki and so..I read it just to see what's it about. 

So the article was basically about Miyazaki talking about his view on the anime industry. Apparently he thinks that it's "suffering because it's full of Otaku" .

(Now please notice that the word "Otaku" does have kind of a different meaning in Japanese.)

 

But then again this article was a bit interesting. You can read the rest of it here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/131872-Hayao-Miyazaki-Anime-Suffers-Because-the-Industry-is-Full-of-Otaku

As I was reading more of it, he also mentions that people in the industry  "don't spend time watching real people"  and how they're  "humans who can't stand looking at other humans."

 

While there are some things I could disagree on,then again, I can actually see his point. As someone who also draws and writes short stories, I like to be creative and sometimes use everyday activities as examples for my stories. Although I am quiet but at least I try to be involved with fun activities and try to socialize with others.  

So what do you think? Is the anime industry...lacking some things? Or maybe is it..declining? Discuss below!

Edited September 6, 2014 by LazuriteDreams*

[Castle Bleck 19,197]

That's like saying MLP:FIM is bad because it's full of Bronies.

[LazuriteDreams* 136]

That's like saying MLP:FIM is bad because it's full of Bronies.

Well of course I don't think all MLP fans are bad. I know there are good fans here. But "otaku" does have a different meaning in Japan so I think he's talking about the ones that don't want to cope with others or are just "too obsessive". :/

Edited September 6, 2014 by LazuriteDreams*

[Symphony Rose 104]

eehh while I agree on some points, I don't see why they are complaining, since it's the "otaku" fan base that brings in the recognition and money for their content.

[Virgil 685]

Just in case people don't actually decide to click on the link and read what Miyazaki has an issue with:

 

"Miyazaki's specific concerns are over the lack of attention paid to people in real life. He said people in the industry "don't spend time watching real people" and can be characterized as "humans who can't stand looking at other humans." He then called the industry "full of otaku.

Miyazaki approaches animation by observing others. In the interview, as Miyazaki sketches, he explains he's able to create art because he spends time watching others. "Whether you can draw like this or not, being able to think up this kind of design, depends on whether or not you can say to yourself, 'Oh, yeah, girls like this exist in real life.'"

 

And in this regard, Miyazaki is dead on. In any type of art medium, when people no longer care about other people or thinking about " Would this character actually act like this?", one's art itself looses the ability to convey anything meaningful. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not dissing comedy, comedy done right is just as meaningful as drama ( the Greeks originally only had Tragedy and Comedy; so what does that tell you? ). Art at this point can also just become simple escapism, where both the creator and viewer only want an escape from reality (as opposed to a thought out consistent fictional world). If anything, good fiction ( no matter how outlandish it may appear to begin with ) can help one make sense of some part of our reality.

 

The great impressionists ( example: Monet ) certainly took painted in a way that in a strict sense wouldn't be realistic to reality, but they did their paintings observing reality; then through their unique perception and skill, made some just as "real" as if they painted something in a "realistic" style.

 

(edited a few bits to clarify my points a bit better I hope )

Edited September 6, 2014 by Virgil

[LazuriteDreams* 136]

 

And in this regard, Miyazaki is dead on. In any type of art medium, when people no longer care about other people or thinking about " Would this character actually act like this?", one's art itself looses the ability to convey anything meaningful. 

 

 

Yeah. I mean I am quiet sometimes but I do at least try to cope with things. Sometimes I usually base my drawings or stories from everyday life activities(but I like to add other elements such as Fantasy) and have fun making a story.(I even like to draw my cat xD) Sometimes I even like my ask myself if "What background should my story have?" or something like that.  

Edited September 6, 2014 by LazuriteDreams*

[Castle Bleck 19,197]

Just in case people don't actually decide to click on the link and read what Miyazaki has an issue with:

 

"Miyazaki's specific concerns are over the lack of attention paid to people in real life. He said people in the industry "don't spend time watching real people" and can be characterized as "humans who can't stand looking at other humans." He then called the industry "full of otaku.

Miyazaki approaches animation by observing others. In the interview, as Miyazaki sketches, he explains he's able to create art because he spends time watching others. "Whether you can draw like this or not, being able to think up this kind of design, depends on whether or not you can say to yourself, 'Oh, yeah, girls like this exist in real life.'"

 

And in this regard, Miyazaki is dead on. In any type of art medium, when people no longer care about other people or thinking about " Would this character actually act like this?", one's art itself looses the ability to convey anything meaningful. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not dissing comedy, comedy done right is just as meaningful as drama ( the Greeks originally only had Tragedy and Comedy; so what does that tell you? ). Art at this point can also just become simple escapism, where both the creator and viewer only want an escape from reality. If anything, good fiction ( no matter how outlandish it may appear to begin with ) can help one make sense of some part of reality.

 

The great impressionists ( example: Monet ) certainly took painted in a way that in a strict sense wouldn't be realistic to reality, but they did their paintings observing reality; then through their unique perception and skill, made some just as real as if they painted something in a realistic style.

 

My reaction to Miyazaki's methods:

 

[Planty 1,052]

@@Virgil, Thankyou for this !

 

So after reading and thinking about it. I would firstly like to say I love anime, its my favourite thing!

 

Ok so firstly I can understand what hes saying. I do think that realism is important in anime, I mean in almost all of the stuff I watch I imprint myself in my head as the main character and effectively go throughout what they are going through. I love the immersion.

 

There is defiantly anime that goes so far away from what would be "real", but the only issue I have with saying that this is bad is that its not! Maybe it is escapism, but look at an anime like bleach! Almost all of that is based in a non existent world and is just so far from reality its not even funny, but its still very enjoyable to watch.

 

But I don't really think that is what he is trying to get at.

 

There are people on-line who immerse themselves in anime so much, that they forget what the real world is. They hate the thought of looking at real life people (I mean look at comments on pictures of some anime girls) and they use relational fantasy with cartoon characters and live in a "pseudo real world".

 

Its fun to enjoy anime, but I can see his worries. Overall I don't think its good for anyone to become so removed from the real world that they start living a fantasy more then real life!

[Darker 1,351]

Hayao Miyazaki said that?! Woah. I guess otakus must be a problem on Japan, because it's pretty difficult to believe that he said such thing about otakus.

 

Sure, some of them have very strange ways to behave, but I've met some of them, and they are not bad. Just too fanboyish for my taste.

[GenderIsAnIllusion 2,177]

Ok first off is it too much to use a font that is easily read?

 

And anime rocks so blah.

[Phoenix Flair 332]

So... they're saying anime isn't real enough?  That is pretty freaking true.  I mean, I know it's a cartoon and it's supposed to have exaggeration aspects, but good god.  The characters these days are so pointlessly archetypal with only the slightest amount of depth to them.  Seems to me the problem with anime is that the storyline is too heavily influenced by out-there aesthetics, and they are really missing out on new talent in that area (storylines, not aesthetics).

 

It seems to me anime is too bundled these days, and it makes it too easy for anime writers to go the lazy route with characters and stories.  Like instead of basing characters on real life, they can just go into the pool of past ideas and pull out a loli boy, or a glasses character, or a pervert or cute character or sarcastic main or whatever.  Anime is becoming based on anime, rather than relatable experiences.

[Virgil 685]

 

 

There is defiantly anime that goes so far away from what would be "real", but the only issue I have with saying that this is bad is that its not! Maybe it is escapism, but look at an anime like bleach! Almost all of that is based in a non existent world and is just so far from reality its not even funny, but its still very enjoyable to watch.

Sorry, I should have added some definitions to my terms or at least used them better. A fictitious world that behaves in a manner not consistent with ours ( a world that has magic swords, large invisible monsters, and so forth; as in the case of Bleach ) and enjoying said world does not equal escapism either on the part of the creator or viewer. As long as the creator was concerned with telling this story, in which the characters themselves behaved in a way consistent with expected human behavior in their world ( which would be based on the creator observing and interacting with people in "real life" ) and the viewer is enjoying the world and it's characters as they are, there is no problem. The problems arise when a creator treats their characters and world like playthings and makes them act in a way no longer consistent with the world( e.g. the random "fan service at the beach" episode, which often makes no sense in terms of story ), or the fans try to do something likewise ( which luckily normally just results in bad fan fics ).

Though you can see the potential for major problems: if someone that behaves in such a way either makes their own show or influences an existing show, or the creators start getting pressured by fans to do certain things; the results are what I believe Miyazaki is concerned with.

Imagine if the Writers of FiM just started getting ideas from fan fics without paying attention to whether or not the fics are consistent with the world of Equestria and it's citizens.

It seems to me anime is too bundled these days, and it makes it too easy for anime writers to go the lazy route with characters and stories.  Like instead of basing characters on real life, they can just go into the pool of past ideas and pull out a loli boy, or a glasses character, or a pervert or cute character or sarcastic main or whatever.  Anime is becoming based on anime, rather than relatable experiences.

That's probably a good way to summarize what has Miyazaki worried so much. ( and more to the point than my posts. )

[LazuriteDreams* 136]

These are some interesting replies. 

 

 

 

It seems to me anime is too bundled these days, and it makes it too easy for anime writers to go the lazy route with characters and stories.  Like instead of basing characters on real life, they can just go into the pool of past ideas and pull out a loli boy, or a glasses character, or a pervert or cute character or sarcastic main or whatever.  Anime is becoming based on anime, rather than relatable experiences.

And I think that's why Miyazaki is so concerned.I don't blame him. But then again there are some good "hidden gems" in anime you just have to look deep enough to find them. 

Edited September 6, 2014 by LazuriteDreams*

[CriticalStylus 65]

That's like saying MLP:FIM is bad because it's full of Bronies.

Not quite. MLP:FiM is one show, with about two or three demographics. Anime is a medium, so it has the potential to appeal to anyone.

 

Anyways,I kinda agree with Miyazaki. The market is flooded with with crap specifically designed to appeal to otaku, rather than anything specifically designed to be good.

[Planty 1,052]

 

 

Imagine if the Writers of FiM just started getting ideas from fan fics without paying attention to whether or not the fics are consistent with the world of Equestria and it's citizens.

 

I think they did, season 3 was a lot of fan service imo.  But that's a discussion for another time!

[LazuriteDreams* 136]

Anyways,I kinda agree with Miyazaki. The market is flooded with with crap specifically designed to appeal to otaku, rather than anything specifically designed to be good.

Like I said, there are some good shows out there, but are just quite a rare find. Now there are some animation/anime out there that have a nice story to it; I'm currently watching "Kyousousiga" and the SM reboot. It's very interesting!

Edited September 7, 2014 by LazuriteDreams*

[Shanks 10,811]

If I am understanding what Miyazaki is trying to say correctly he seems to be saying that the quality of anime is going down because it is increasingly being geared toward the more obsessive fans at the exclusion of everyone else not that there is too much fantasy or escapist themes but that they are done in a way that forgoes realistic/deep character development to the point where said escapism becomes lazy Mary Sue/Gary Stu style wish fulfillment. Miyazki himself has made numerous use of fantasy settings in his own works but his works are also heavily character based and often have strong morals/messages and often do resemble elements of realism.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong whatsoever with escapism so long as it dosen't get to the point where that becomes your entire life which seems to be one of Miyazaki's concerns. What he is saying dosen't seem to be a condemnation of anime fans but a condemnation of the more extreme ones as has been pointed out in the OP "Otaku" has a much more negative connotation in Japan than it does in the US. What he is saying is a bit harsh but does have some truth to it, a lot of animes do suffer from excessive amounts of pandering and there are some that have gotten a tad repetitive but there are plenty of good ones still out there.

[Symphony Rose 104]

 season 3 was a lot of fan service imo.

 

I never noticed this

how is it fanservice tho

usually fanservice is painfully obvious

[Planty 1,052]

I never noticed this

how is it fanservice tho

usually fanservice is painfully obvious

 

Just the way imo the seemed to sacrifice a lot of story to try and wedge in fan characters returns (such as trixie) and making the show more disjointed as they tried to cram so much into 30 min episodes.

 

I feel its worse with the trixe episode, it just feels so out of place in mlp the way it was done!

 

But I also don't like s3 that much because they tried to make many of the episodes feel "epic" and just ended up screwing up the pacing of the episodes making them feel disjointed. S4 went back to simpler storylines where they did try and cram stuff or force stuff in, which I much preferred !

[Digit 321]

Try to remeber and take into account that miyazaki has always written fantastic stories but the underline theme has always of his movies is the human condition.

 

My neighbor tortoro is a story about a family copeing with lose of the mother/wife and finding happiness.

 

Princess Mononoke is Essentially a statement on the ecological devastation brought on by human advancement.

 

So i can understand his dislike of the shows like Killa La kill which has an underlinung statement of corrupt capatilism mixed with hierarchy but still its completely outrageous.

[ShintX 180]

Maybe they obsess over it too much instead for trying to appreciate as entertainment. Kinda like "wow this is cool". . Instead it turns into "Super neko attack, wow so kawaiii". Like stringing Japanese words togheter and all that stuff, which is hard to understand. I will assume Japanese trivia seem to get most attention instead of story, characters and plot which is a shame.

 

Btw if you are interested in watching this documentary. Then feel free to check them out

 

http://youtu.be/IUYlqLlbix0

http://youtu.be/yoJ_BWQ9Kow

 

Edited September 8, 2014 by ShintX

[Samurai Equine 46,573]

*Not actually going to read the full article*

Based on what has been quoted and summarized, it sounds like Miyazaki is talking more about people in the industry and not so much the fanbase anime attracts. But I could be wrong...

 

Anime, like any fictional medium, will always have the challenge of balancing the realism with the fantasy. If you go too far into the fantasy side, you have something completely abstract and lacking any form of traditional or followable story telling. If you go too far into the realism side, you get a slice of life story that really doesn't challenge you, doesn't enrich your lives, and absolutely feels like the everyday boring life of average people. And it can be hard finding that right balance. Critics, over the ages, can get more and more critical. Even I can be surprised what will break my suspension of disbelief, even though I am watching something based in so much fantasy that it's ridiculous.

 

I really don't know how to comment on this. Though I do want some realism and I do want my fiction to follow the rules of its own canon, I watch stuff for the escapism. If it enriches my life in some way, makes life more bearable, gives me the feels, etc.; that's fine too! But I still want that escapism. If I want a slice of life story, if I want real drama from real people, then I'll go out into the real world and live my own life. But that's just me. :comeatus:

[Invincible 2,090]

Animes have their quirks, but i think that's what makes them fun. You don't have to be a die hard fan to appreciate a good anime, and i'm certain not every single animator in the anime business will vomit at the sight of a human being. The anime industry is vast, and it's definitely not black and white in it's nature, if you're bothered with the Otaku, just ignore em' and move ahead, live and let live i say.