Sunset Shimmer FIM incorporation. How, when and why?

[ManaMinori 4,145]

Some fans seem to think that Equestria Girls is canon to MLP:FIM, some don't, even if the show writers have confirmed it to be (and have dropped EQG characters in MLP:FIM* before). And even though Sunset Shimmer- as seen in the movie and in “The Fall of Sunset Shimmer” IDW comic, show Sunny was born a pony, resident of Equestria, long before she traveled into the human world and became...ugh....human, some people insist that Sunny Not be given any role/ cameo's in the Main MLP:FIM series seasons because she's a part of EQG, and that it should be separate from MLP:FIM. How true can that be, exactly, if- as I've already said- Sunny started out as a pony in Equestria, and doesn't even belong in the 'human' world (not only due to it being unnatural, a once magical talking pony livings amongst humans in a world not their own, but because there's likely because there's already a Sunny in the other world, and universe fuckerry could happen if the two ever meet)

 

Discuss: How could the writers incorporate Sunset Shimmer (back) into MLP:FIM, if the EQG movie is canon, and Twilight and Friends know about her, yet make it so it wouldn't seem as if Sunny's being re-introduced from square 1 (learning names, motives, past mentors, ect)- or, if the movie isn't canon, and want to go through a re-introduction phase from square 1, through the series?

 

When would be the most opportune time to incorporate Sunny into the series, whether through a cameo or permanent stay? Could they start easing her in by giving her her own MLP:FIM pony holiday movie, spending the holidays back in Equestria, upon request of Celestia, who wants her back home where she belongs (again, to avoid universes ripping apart or something- as we've seen from Celestia's own dimension-hopping, in the Reflections' arc of the comics)? (like a Christmas/ Hearth's Warming special, like Minty of G3 got?) or should DHX simply go the route of throwing Sunny headfirst into an episode, without preparation, introducing her in Celestia's company, when Twi'light- in a panic, bursts into the canterlot throne room, and then Celestia gets her former student to help Twi and friends with whatever dire situation might be at hoof? (admittedly, I may be more than a little biased due to having a headcanon of Sunny being accepted back into Equestrian society, making peace with sunbutt, and eventually being handed over by her old mentor as a student to Luna)

 

Why would DHX/ Hasbro incorporate Sunset Shimmer into the show? She's already proven to be a popular character, and having her in the show could allow her more screen time, and thus higher ratings. potentially, this route could be less expensive than making movies with her in all of future ones. And though they already established her importance in EQG, they could just as easily retcon it, replace Sunny with the original human Sunset Shimmer, or human Twilight, while bringing pony Sunny back where she belongs (again, to restore the balance of the universe and whatnot, also a possibility). And since the show series has been confirmed to have at least 5 more seasons, Hasbro would have to be crazy not to start easing Sunny into the show series, in my opinion, as it means more potential to market her, along with the rest of the mane 6 and whatever future crazy transformations they experience.

 

*see Flash Sentry in “Three's a Crowd”.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Nightmare Muffin

[Red Cedar 1,408]

I am personally expecting Sunset Shimmer to get into FIM at some point. The bit at the end of the Rainbow Rocks credits practically screams that there is going to be a third Equestria Girls film, and since movie franchises tend to happen in threes, I would be willing to bet that at the end of that, Sunset Shimmer will come home. So, after that, I'd expect an appearance in the show sometime in season six, or in the FIM movie they have planned for 2017 at the latest.

 

Also, Sunset Shimmer has a large fanbase, so it would be silly to do away with her entirely.

[camsterman101 159]

I am expecting her to randomly help out and save the day when the Mane six need it

Kinda like a comic!

 

-camsterman101

[ManaMinori 4,145]

I am expecting her to randomly help out and save the day when the Mane six need it

Kinda like a comic!

 

-camsterman101

you sure put a lot of thought into that....

=__= When should she be introduced? How should the (re)introduction happen? (I'll take your comment as the 'why' part- since you seem to be implying the Mane 6 would be needing an extra pair of hooves from Sunny, to help them save the day, ans that's a pretty good reason as to 'why' Sunny should come back to Equestria, if you ask me)

[Lordav 3,427]

Warning, Huge bias in following extract

 

Well she might be introduced due to ..as you said universe inbalance, or just a problem that needs an 'extra-head". She might be given an impotant role... but i doubt she'll be in the mane 6 (mane 7 in that case). Maybe Sunny wishes to apologise to Celestia.... or maybe something from the HUman world escapes through the portal and therefore look at Sunny for help. Now this is improbable but it is a possible plot, Sunny catches some sort of illness/ problem that originates or can only be cured with Equestrian magic. 

 

NOw why, Well a lot of peopl e do like Sunny (IKR UNBELIEVABLE... just check my profile  ), Also.... it would give hasbro...an extra toy opportunit -_-. Now away form show reaons, it would further the feeling of forgiveness being the way to go. It also would make the Show a lot more cutness...and perfectness...and...ahem.

Adding Sunny as a important, yet not mane 6 role would give the writers a lot more opprtunities in writing their episodes, (Maybe that 100th episode?) and a larger pool of developed characters to help them with it

[Arctofire 227]

If it does happen I think it will happen I think that it will be after the third EQG movie if it receives enough positive feedback. I also think that it will be a reveal similar to Discord's, so towards the end of season 6.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Arctofire

[ManaMinori 4,145]

I am personally expecting Sunset Shimmer to get into FIM at some point. The bit at the end of the Rainbow Rocks credits practically screams that there is going to be a third Equestria Girls film, and since movie franchises tend to happen in threes, I would be willing to bet that at the end of that, Sunset Shimmer will come home. So, after that, I'd expect an appearance in the show sometime in season six, or in the FIM movie they have planned for 2017 at the latest.

 

Also, Sunset Shimmer has a large fanbase, so it would be silly to do away with her entirely.

I hope you're right. The more I see EQD stuff with Sunny's involvement, the more convinced I am that she truly belongs back in her own universe, for the best interest of everyone (herself, both universes, her former mentor, and possibly/ potentially even Luna, and the pony mane 6)

[Jora 164]

i would having sunset back in equestria would be for the best and that would leave twi to be the princess she is suppose to be it would make more sense to have another unicorn to balance out the team with the 2 2 2 rule and leave miss new royal to tend to her Princess deeds

[AlbaTross 1,586]

As much as I appreciate the idea of adding another unicorn to balance the race ratio, as well as add some red/orange to the colour mix(Fluttershy already provides yellow), I kind of want anything related to Equestria Girls to remain side-canon, or B canon, if you will. That's not to say I don't like the films, because I do, but they work really well as an optional side series, and I think the same of the comics. It is possible to skip the films entirely and miss out on nothing important, while the characters and concepts from the films provide an optional addition to the series that runs parallel to it.

 

As it stands, FiM is a canon that can be as easy, or difficult to follow as you want it to be. At its core it's a linear series, and in order to follow it you only need to watch the episodes in order. The films, like with the comics and novels, provide additional side stories to place within the canon for people who enjoy that sort of thing and/or like arguing about the placement of events in more complex canons. The films don't add very much to the coherency of the canon, as they just fall between seasons and are fairly easy to follow in that regard. However, I still consider them a side canon.

 

You can choose to watch the films, read the comics or read the novels, or any combination of them, or you can do it all, but if FiM is like an atom then the show is the nucleus. Everything else only needs the show to make sense of it, and unless you read Equestria Girls based material, none of the additional series are required to get into any of the others, and certainly aren't required to get the most out of the show, and I like it that way. I would rather that balance not be thrown off just to satisfy a debatable notion of equilibrium or side material making a bigger impact on the show. While I don't disagree with any of those things, and kind of like the idea, I think each series has its place, and keeping it that way is a bigger deal for me.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

so what about the scenes that take place within Equestria that have EQD characters in them (or being mentioned)? (Flash Sentry, in the show series, being seen in "Three's a crowd", and giving Twi a look, like he knows her, or scenes in EQD that take place in Equestria, where the mane 6 know Sunset Shimmer- who's again- originally a pony, mind you, but took up residence in EQG). Can you argue that's not canon, if it takes place outside the EQG world, rather than within it?

 

I think they you're wrong in that logic. You CAN in fact skip films and comics and whatever else, but, you're missing out on additional characterisation or backstory on characters that might not've had enough time to be developed in the show series. Trixie, for example, gets additional characterization in the comics, whereas the show, the writers set it up for her - keeping to Twilight's deal- that she's never show up again. Flim and Flam get backstory in the comics, too, whereas they don't, in the series canon. So does Granny Smith, and again- Sunset Shimmer, in both comics, and movie. Celestia as well, in the comics. So to say you're not missing out on anything important, by avoiding these extensions to the cartoon series is wrong, as there's much to be told about the characters in the show across the various types of media for it (books, comics, movies).

[Ziltoid the Omniscient 286]

I'm not sure. She will eventually show up in Equestria though to help with some threat, obviously through the 'magic portal' (cause she already did in EqG1) but when and why is up in the air for my thoughts. I wonder if human Twilight will have something to do with it? Oh dear...What if all the human counterparts go through the portal o.o Ponyclones episode. How...cliche.

[Misty Rose 3,216]

Now that the portal can be activated whenever, the writers can present a huge problem in Equestria that Sunset can help with. She may know some things that Twilight doesn't given that she was also Celestia's pupil at one time, and she has pretty great and special magical abilities based on the EQG comic.

 

When would be a good time to incorporate her would be sometime during Season 5 It's really just a preference because I really want to see Sunny again soon!

Edited January 4, 2015 by Pink Mist

[ManaMinori 4,145]

I'm not sure. She will eventually show up in Equestria though to help with some threat, obviously through the 'magic portal' (cause she already did in EqG1) but when and why is up in the air for my thoughts. I wonder if human Twilight will have something to do with it? Oh dear...What if all the human counterparts go through the portal o.o Ponyclones episode. How...cliche.

I highly doubt all the EQG humans will be crossing over into Equestria. 1: the staff said they wanted to keep the two seperate (although with Flash being seen in the land of pony, I can only question that statement) 2: I don't think or see how and why they'd consider an inhabitant originally born in Equestria a factor to keep as far away from the show, because pony girl Sunset Shimmer IS a pony.  and 3: way too much work for the artists, trying to have pony mane 6 and U mane 5 all shoved together in however many scenes they can cram them into.

 

but basically, yeah, just Sunny.

[MechanicalDoom 300]

This got me thinking; Is there a Sunset Shimmer already in the human world? It hasn't really been mentioned or anything. Anyway, I think she should return to help with something and stay because she realized she feels more at home. I feel like that'd be kind of a jerk move to the human mane 6, though.. Maybe she just can't return.

[VitalSpark 1,830]

I agree with @@Red Cedar that Sunset Shimmer will be in EG3, and that might complete her story arc in the human world.

 

If they want to finish doing EG films altogether, then they could end it with whatever disaster they fix in the third film, causing the gateway between the two worlds to become unstable and start to collapse. Sunset Shimmer would need to make a decision about what world she remains in. And she knows deep down that she's a pony, so says an emotional goodbye to her friends and steps though the gateway.

 

Or perhaps they'll want to leave the door open for other EG films, so have her return, but leave the portal open.

 

Or perhaps they could mess with poor Sunny's mind. Whatever disaster they fix in the third film causes the gateway between the two worlds to become unstable and start to collapse. Sunset Shimmer needs to make a decision about what world she remains in. She knows deep down that she's a pony, so says an emotional goodbye to her friends and steps though the gateway. But hits the concrete of the statue. She's trapped in the human world forever.

 

I dunno.

 

I want Sunny in FIM though.

 

 

This got me thinking; Is there a Sunset Shimmer already in the human world?

 

I have seen it proposed that there was, but evil unicorn finished her off to steal her identity.

 

I can't believe that of my beloved Sunny though.

 

Most likely she just lives somewhere in the city where the original human Twilight Sparkle lives.

[RainbowTashie 378]

Some fans seem to think that Equestria Girls is canon to MLP:FIM, some don't, even if the show writers have confirmed it to be (and have dropped EQG characters in MLP:FIM* before). And even though Sunset Shimmer- as seen in the movie and in “The Fall of Sunset Shimmer” IDW comic, show Sunny was born a pony, resident of Equestria, long before she traveled into the human world and became...ugh....human, some people insist that Sunny Not be given any role/ cameo's in the Main MLP:FIM series seasons because she's a part of EQG, and that it should be separate from MLP:FIM. How true can that be, exactly, if- as I've already said- Sunny started out as a pony in Equestria, and doesn't even belong in the 'human' world (not only due to it being unnatural, a once magical talking pony livings amongst humans in a world not their own, but because there's likely because there's already a Sunny in the other world, and universe fuckerry could happen if the two ever meet)

 

Discuss: How could the writers incorporate Sunset Shimmer (back) into MLP:FIM, if the EQG movie is canon, and Twilight and Friends know about her, yet make it so it wouldn't seem as if Sunny's being re-introduced from square 1 (learning names, motives, past mentors, ect)- or, if the movie isn't canon, and want to go through a re-introduction phase from square 1, through the series?

 

When would be the most opportune time to incorporate Sunny into the series, whether through a cameo or permanent stay? Could they start easing her in by giving her her own MLP:FIM pony holiday movie, spending the holidays back in Equestria, upon request of Celestia, who wants her back home where she belongs (again, to avoid universes ripping apart or something- as we've seen from Celestia's own dimension-hopping, in the Reflections' arc of the comics)? (like a Christmas/ Hearth's Warming special, like Minty of G3 got?) or should DHX simply go the route of throwing Sunny headfirst into an episode, without preparation, introducing her in Celestia's company, when Twi'light- in a panic, bursts into the canterlot throne room, and then Celestia gets her former student to help Twi and friends with whatever dire situation might be at hoof? (admittedly, I may be more than a little biased due to having a headcanon of Sunny being accepted back into Equestrian society, making peace with sunbutt, and eventually being handed over by her old mentor as a student to Luna)

 

Why would DHX/ Hasbro incorporate Sunset Shimmer into the show? She's already proven to be a popular character, and having her in the show could allow her more screen time, and thus higher ratings. potentially, this route could be less expensive than making movies with her in all of future ones. And though they already established her importance in EQG, they could just as easily retcon it, replace Sunny with the original human Sunset Shimmer, or human Twilight, while bringing pony Sunny back where she belongs (again, to restore the balance of the universe and whatnot, also a possibility). And since the show series has been confirmed to have at least 5 more seasons, Hasbro would have to be crazy not to start easing Sunny into the show series, in my opinion, as it means more potential to market her, along with the rest of the mane 6 and whatever future crazy transformations they experience.

 

*see Flash Sentry in “Three's a Crowd”.

idc when and how but i want her to be incorporated as long as she doesn't bring humans with her some how. But i doubt that'd happen thank goodness since it makes EQ redundant

[LinkDeWitt 1]

My headcanon right now predicts that since Sunsy was shown to add the 7th color to the "Rainbow Power", and probably resulted to a stronger form of said power, perhaps by the finale of season 5(or even the premiere), the mane 6 would face something so strong, their (6)rainbow power won't be enough, and Twily would presume that they need another boost to the power, thus "the 7th color" and try to bring Sunsy back to Equestria. I don't know. :3

[ManaMinori 4,145]

I still have hope that Sunny will make it into the MLP series, and her constant screw-ups in the human world (seen in the Rainbow Rocks movie and confirmed in her new book), along with her wanting to continue her studies of magic, lead me to believe this.

[Red Cedar 1,408]

I suspect it will happen. Sunset Shimmer will likely come home to Equestria with Twilight in the third and final Equestria Girls film, so I'd expect to see her in the series sometime in season 6, or in the MLP movie at the latest.

[Jeremiah 1,586]

I would just prefer Sunset to be in the human world for now... although it would be cool to see her back in Equestria, i would rather see her in the human world, you know keep the balance and all...

 

[The Awesome One 1,315]

The fandom has an overall positive view of Sunset Shimmer and that helps a lot. Bringing her into the show will not be a problem at all because there are plenty of ways it can be done. From Celestia simply forgiving her and letting her come back because she's reformed and it's all good now or basically anything that requires that she come back to Equestria. The creators of the show will think of something. 

 

The real question is, do they want to do that or do they just want to keep her in the human world because that is where she is happy and has friends? It's not like Sunset Shimmer would really look forward to coming back to Equestria where she would have to regain everybody's trust all over again.

 

At best, she might make an appearance in one episode before returning back to the human world.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

The fandom has an overall positive view of Sunset Shimmer and that helps a lot. Bringing her into the show will not be a problem at all because there are plenty of ways it can be done. From Celestia simply forgiving her and letting her come back because she's reformed and it's all good now or basically anything that requires that she come back to Equestria. The creators of the show will think of something. 

 

The real question is, do they want to do that or do they just want to keep her in the human world because that is where she is happy and has friends? It's not like Sunset Shimmer would really look forward to coming back to Equestria where she would have to regain everybody's trust all over again.

 

At best, she might make an appearance in one episode before returning back to the human world.

I think the writers are trying to sabotage Sunset's experience's in the human world and have things turn out badly for her, as a setup for her to eventually transition back to Equestria. I mean, so much crummy stuff has happened to poor Sunny since she made her new "friends", it can't be coincidence.

Examples:

1: Staring with the second movie (Rainbow Rocks), Sunny is supposedly 'forgiven' of her past mistakes by her 'friends', the mane 5, but they keep making it a point to bring up her past errors, in conversation, whenever she's around, continuously reminding her of how awful she was- whether it's intentional or not. (And I hardly believe that it's unintentional, unless the mane 5 are completely unaware that Sunny's part of their group and follows them everywhere, and if she's in immediate line of vision and close proximity to them- and she is 99 % of the time, then there's really no excuse for that). To say “no offense” when you continuously drag up someone's past bad behavior and throw it in their face, isn't an acceptable apology. And while Sunset Shimmer's just has SO much fortitude, and is SO strong to just take all the constant reminders – not only from the entire school (including the Principal and vice, but from her so-called FRIENDS) and just grin and bear it, we can see the constant reminders exasperating, embarrassing, and just plain making poor Sunny feel so bad and riddled with guilt. ): And that's the last thing she needs from the people she calls her '”friends”, now that she's opened herself up to try learning about friendship, as Twilight has.

 

2: in the 2014 EQG holiday special in the IDW comics- which takes place after Rainbow Rocks, Sunset Shimmer's “friends” still treat her horribly, after Sunset proved herself changed to such a degree that she was able to transform with the elements of harmony and help the Mane 5 save the world from the sirens. The Mane 5 turn on Sunny; judging her at the drop of a hat, and leaving her sobbing on the floor (not to mention none of them notice Sunny being homeless and living in the library, or offered to take her into their home, as they did with Twilight) But even after all that, Sunny quickly (perhaps TOO quickly) forgives them, while none of them apologized to her.

 

3: In "Sunset Shimmer's Time to Shine" chapter book, Sunny still carries the "I just want to be helpful, but I mess up, instead" trait she showed in Rainbow Rocks, because she's out of her element, not knowing how to put all her knowledge of magic she learned in Equestria to practical use, and her "friends", once again, get angry with her, when she does try to use her learned magic, doing all that she can to help them, and things get hairy, and she deserves NONE of the crap they give her. Again.

 

So yeah, I think it's writer sabotage for Sunny to be better off back in Equestria, given her current circumstances, in the presence of so-called “friends” who continue to accuse her, judge her, drag up her past, and make her feel bad about herself, after they've claimed to “forgiven” her? The human mane 5 aren't the kind of "friends" Sunny really should be keeping around, as supposed "role-models" to help her better learn about friendship, anyway. The pony mane 6 (or pony Luna) might be better candidates.

[The Awesome One 1,315]

I think the writers are trying to sabotage Sunset's experience's in the human world and have things turn out badly for her, as a setup for her to eventually transition back to Equestria. I mean, so much crummy stuff has happened to poor Sunny since she made her new "friends", it can't be coincidence.

Examples:

1: Staring with the second movie (Rainbow Rocks), Sunny is supposedly 'forgiven' of her past mistakes by her 'friends', the mane 5, but they keep making it a point to bring up her past errors, in conversation, whenever she's around, continuously reminding her of how awful she was- whether it's intentional or not. (And I hardly believe that it's unintentional, unless the mane 5 are completely unaware that Sunny's part of their group and follows them everywhere, and if she's in immediate line of vision and close proximity to them- and she is 99 % of the time, then there's really no excuse for that). To say “no offense” when you continuously drag up someone's past bad behavior and throw it in their face, isn't an acceptable apology. And while Sunset Shimmer's just has SO much fortitude, and is SO strong to just take all the constant reminders – not only from the entire school (including the Principal and vice, but from her so-called FRIENDS) and just grin and bear it, we can see the constant reminders exasperating, embarrassing, and just plain making poor Sunny feel so bad and riddled with guilt. ): And that's the last thing she needs from the people she calls her '”friends”, now that she's opened herself up to try learning about friendship, as Twilight has.

 

2: in the 2014 EQG holiday special in the IDW comics- which takes place after Rainbow Rocks, Sunset Shimmer's “friends” still treat her horribly, after Sunset proved herself changed to such a degree that she was able to transform with the elements of harmony and help the Mane 5 save the world from the sirens. The Mane 5 turn on Sunny; judging her at the drop of a hat, and leaving her sobbing on the floor (not to mention none of them notice Sunny being homeless and living in the library, or offered to take her into their home, as they did with Twilight) But even after all that, Sunny quickly (perhaps TOO quickly) forgives them, while none of them apologized to her.

 

3: In "Sunset Shimmer's Time to Shine" chapter book, Sunny still carries the "I just want to be helpful, but I mess up, instead" trait she showed in Rainbow Rocks, because she's out of her element, not knowing how to put all her knowledge of magic she learned in Equestria to practical use, and her "friends", once again, get angry with her, when she does try to use her learned magic, doing all that she can to help them, and things get hairy, and she deserves NONE of the crap they give her. Again.

 

So yeah, I think it's writer sabotage for Sunny to be better off back in Equestria, given her current circumstances, in the presence of so-called “friends” who continue to accuse her, judge her, drag up her past, and make her feel bad about herself, after they've claimed to “forgiven” her? The human mane 5 aren't the kind of "friends" Sunny really should be keeping around, as supposed "role-models" to help her better learn about friendship, anyway. The pony mane 6 (or pony Luna) might be better candidates.

 

All that sounds really horrible. Something that you would not normally see in comic books related to a show for little girls. I don't think the writers are planning to do anything like that but they will give her an episode in the main show where she comes to Equestria. I'm sure of it. They have no reason not to.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

All that sounds really horrible. Something that you would not normally see in comic books related to a show for little girls. I don't think the writers are planning to do anything like that but they will give her an episode in the main show where she comes to Equestria. I'm sure of it. They have no reason not to.

IT IS! Poor Sunny jumps through hoops for the mane 5 and gets treated like dirt, though they claim that she's her friend. Truly sad. (not to mention they're still crediting Twilight for defeating the Dazzlings, instead of Sunny) Ouch. ):

Well, I'm sure you can see where I'd believe that they were, with how they're stacking up failure for her, in the human world and all.

Hope you're right, though. I'd be happy with just an episode with her in the series, until they can find a way to incorporate her into more, later down the road, before the series ends. In fact, I already rattled off an idea that I think might work with her coming in in the s5 finale.

https://mlpforums.com/topic/128869-how-will-it-all-end-with-a-bang-or-a-fizzle/

[colt .45 259]

I think that the biggest issue that they would have in bringing Sunset into the fim show is that I've read that they want to keep EQG as an extension of fim and not where you have to see the movie to know what's going on in the show. So to incorporate her into the show they'd pretty much have to reintroduce her. Not that I think the writers couldn't do that effectively, it would just take a full episode to explain to an audience who has never seen the movies (and what a great episode that would be!) Unless Twi just sumerizes everything that took place in two movies in a two minute speech. Sunny is so beautifully designed, and such a good character it's almost a crime that we only get to see her once a year.

I could see her as a frequently recurring character, kind of like Zecora. Plus her being a pony would mean more merch. Pay attention Hasbro, there's lines of fans trying to give you money for Sunset Shimmer merch. Make it happen.

Edited May 22, 2015 by colt .45