Is Rarity milking Spike's crush?

[silvadel 1,393]

I think Rarity is deluding herself and it is manifesting thus.  One day she will consciously put it all together and have a mini-breakdown.

[Fractured 2,684]

In the scene with the fire ruby, there's no manipulation involved: Spike liked that ruby, but then realized that Rarity was more important him. He made a conscious decision to give her that ruby as a token of generosity. The entire episode is a testament to the fact that he loves Rarity more than his strongest natural urges.

As far as the whole housework thing goes, though, it's something that Spike does so often it's more or less a casual thing now. He does it with Twilight, he did it with Applejack, and he does it with Rarity. He doesn't really need to be manipulated into it, it's what he naturally does

edit: majorly ninja'd

Edited August 2, 2014 by Shimmer5000

[Sunny Fox 5,950]

Yes. One episode (can't think of it. In fact it's probably happened many times) she has Spike carry her luggage. Another she had him clean her house. So yeah, Rarity's pretty manipulative of him

Yes, she's the only one who ever makes him carry stuff...

Oh, wait...

 

I apologize for the sarcasm, but it kind of annoys me when people act as if only Rarity ever gets Spike to do stuff.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Sunny Fox

[StitchandMLPlover 930]

Actually, this is a good point and something I need to bring up about their friendship - it was actually confirmed by M.A. Larson that it was just Spike's imagination getting the better of him. He was just ogling over her

 

 

Proof:

 

 

Just for future reference in this thread - I know that scene is something that often gets brought up a lot in this discussion, at least from my experience 

 

Yes finally somebody notices this was Spike's POV!!!

 

I think Rarity can be a bit manipulative but she does see Spike as a true friend and Spike loves her. I don't think Rarity is purposely trying to hurt him and would be utterly heartbroken if something bad ever happened to Spike. Rarity is probably flattered by the crush and allows Spike to help her to make them both happy. Rarity isn't a perfectionist about Spike helping like she is with Sweetie Belle. She trusts him to do a good job like Twilight does. I think both Rarity and Twilight know that Spike finds purpose in helping others and feels unconfident/useless when not helping as evidenced by "Equestria Games", "Power Ponies" and "Owls Well That Ends Well" Spike comes across as cocky with a lot of ego but it is to cover up a ton of insecurity about himself like many people I know who are insecure. In the pony world it seems if you are not full filing your purpose you have a mental breakdown LOL. 

Actually, I've talked about this at length in a blog entry: http://mlpforums.com/blog/1083/entry-9977-looking-at-rarity-part-2-flawed-fashionista/

 

I'll just copy and paste it.

 

***

***

As a Rarity fan, I often cite her complexity as one of the reasons to like her. That complexity comes about because there are some flaws which Rarity has and that need to be acknowledged. Fans like myself, and anyone who uses her complexity as a reason why she is a good character, can’t have our Fire Ruby and eat it too. We simply cannot try to explain away all her flaws, because then we’re implying she is perfect, and that isn’t what makes a character interesting and likeable.

 

That being the case, I now want to look at her flaws, the ones I think need to be acknowledged. There are also come criticisms that fans may level at her that I don’t think are entirely fair, and I’ll explain why I disagree. So let’s have another look at Rarity, our flawed little diamond.

 

Manipulative

Oh, for a certainty, Rarity uses her beauty and charm to get others to do what she wants them to do. In The Best Night Ever. she charmed some stallions into pulling the carriage to the Grand Galloping Gala. She successfully relieved Spike of his precious Fire Ruby in Secret of my Excess. Speaking of Spike, she often gets him to carry her things, and if he’s reluctant, she only has to bat her eyelashes at him. She flattered a decidedly unhandsome pony shamelessly so as to get his asparagus away from him. She expressed a desire to have someone eternally in her debt so that she could get them to do things for her in Spike at your Service.

 

The thing is, even though I can acknowledge this as somewhat ignoble, the more vociferous among Rarity’s detractors tend to make more of this fault than it actually warrants. They mistake manipulation for selfishness, when it often isn’t the case. Let’s look at the examples above.

 

The Carriage Incident in “The Best Night Ever”

Twilight had enchanted mice into horses to pull the carriage, but they were chased away by Opal. There was a problem facing her friends, and Rarity is the one who knew exactly what to do. She simply asked some of her neighbours for help. They were quite happy to do so, and it was for the good of the whole Mane Six, not just Rarity.

 

The Asparagus Incident in “Putting Your Hoof Down”

First of all, many fans seem to forget that Rarity’s intention was to help Fluttershy, who had been unfairly deprived of her asparagus. That isn’t selfish, it’s supportive. Sure, poor Poindexter lost his asparagus, but how many fans notice that she actually paid him back the coin he had spent? She didn’t leave him short, even though he was eating out of her hoof and seemingly wouldn’t have cared if Rarity were to steal both his kidneys to go with the asparagus. She could have taken advantage of him far more than she did. Heck, he’ll probably remember the time a pretty girl pony flirted with him with a warm fuzzy feeling for the rest of his life. In my fanfiction brainspace, that incident actually made him braver and more confident about his looks, and led to him being happily married to a lovely pony lass in the future. (Hands off, fanfiction writers! This idea is mine!  )

 

The Fire Ruby Incident in “Secret of my Excess”

Anyone who accuses Rarity of being selfish or greedy in this scene is not giving it enough consideration. Let’s do a play-by-play, shall we? She originally enters the library in order to ask Twilight for a book about fashion. Before she can do so, she is distracted by the sight of the Fire Ruby, and gushes over how beautiful it is. At this point, there is nothing to indicate she wants it for herself. She is just appreciating it for its beauty and even turns away from it when Twilight asks her why she is there in the first place. Then she realizes that Spike called the gem “totally delicious”, and when he confirms that he is going to eat it, she looks devastated, not avaricious. This is the thing that some fans (perhaps willfully; perhaps not) misunderstand: she doesn’t want the gem as a pretty bauble for herself. She wants it because otherwise Spike will eat it and destroy its beauty forever. Rarity lives for beauty and the thought of something so lovely just being eaten and destroyed is unbearable to her.

 

Twilight gives her the book she needs, and again, Rarity turns away from the gem and talks about other plans she has. Then she remembers that Spike is going to eat it. At this point, we see she wants to get the gem, and even bites her own hoof to stop herself from asking for it. In fact, she never does ask for it, even though she clearly wants it. She mentions again how beautiful it is. This is the point where Spike himself notices that she wants it. Eventually, he offers it to her as a gift. From her expression, it’s clear that she is taken aback by this: she actually shows surprise that he is giving it to her, and is genuinely delighted, pronouncing it as the most generous gesture she has ever experienced.

 

None of the above is at all congruent with a callous and selfish manipulation. Any fan reducing this intricate interplay of motives and events to “she wanted it, so she manipulated him into giving it to her” is doing not only Rarity, but also Spike, a grievous disservice. It was a meaningful gesture of sacrifice and generosity on Spike’s part, motivated by the desire to make the one he loves happy. That Rarity got what she wished from it in the end is not an indication of her selfishness or manipulative tendencies. The fact that she continually turned away, kept herself from outright asking for it, and didn’t act like it was a foregone conclusion when she finally did get a hold of it, shows that she wasn’t single-mindedly dedicated to seducing the gem away from him.

 

***

As you can see, I don't need confirmation from the show staff in order to defend Rarity!   

***

And this is from the follow up: http://mlpforums.com/blog/1083/entry-10976-looking-at-rarity-part-3-allies-associates-and-antagonists/

 

***

***

Spike

 

This is one of the most important and talked about relationships in the series. Ironically, given that FiM doesn’t have much by way of romance. A lot of people give Rarity grief over what they see as her taking advantage of him. In some ways, they’re right, but it’s actually much more of a give and take than is sometimes recognized. Yes, she gets him to do stuff for her, but most of the time, Spike’s perfectly okay with it. And she’s hardly the only Mane Six who does. She also frequently gives him rewards for his troubles, such as gems to eat, a carrot-dog, etc. She also sticks up for Spike frequently, and went to great lengths to keep him safe in “Dragon Quest”. It’s clear that she does care for him in her own way.

 

I suspect that Rarity simply doesn’t know exactly how to handle Spike’s precocious crush on her. After all, by the standards of dragonhood, Spike is not even a teenager yet. She can’t view him as a romantic prospect, but she cares for him and certainly wouldn’t want to hurt his feelings. So, until she can find a way to let him down gently, she keeps their relationship at status quo. Perhaps in her mind, letting him do things for her is a way of showing that she does want him to be around. Not always, of course, but I think that’s a large part of it.

I love your explanation of the gem scene. Spot on! The way the scene looks also makes it clear that Spike is admiring the way Rarity looks for her beauty the same way Rarity is admiring the gem for its beauty. And as for Rarity handling the crush I think you are also right. When someone who is older notices someone much younger has a crush on them and is a nice gentle person instead of a perv they will simply be flattered and do what Rarity is doing for Spike. 

Edited August 2, 2014 by StitchandMLPlover

[Jeric 46,851]

Actually, this is a good point and something I need to bring up about their friendship - it was actually confirmed by M.A. Larson that it was just Spike's imagination getting the better of him. He was just ogling over her

 

 

 

 

Proof:

Just for future reference in this thread - I know that scene is something that often gets brought up a lot in this discussion, at least from my experience

I am speechless! Larson used a false perspective in his script? I honestly didn't know that? You see this in narrative (the unreliable narrator trope) but this is fairly sophisticated authorial trickery.

 

Not as mind blowing as the deceptive cadence thing, but still.

 

Anyway. I'm approaching this tomorrow by channeling Fitzgerald, Milne, and Tolkien. Be ready for it

Edited August 2, 2014 by Jeric

[LZRD WZRD 1,929]

Yes, she's the only one who ever makes him carry stuff...

bscap0240.jpg

Oh, wait...

 

I apologize for the sarcasm, but it kind of annoys me when people act as if only Rarity ever gets Spike to do stuff.

Calm down, lol, I never said this is exclusive to Rarity. But with Twilight, his work is based around a professional relationship. And with the others, it's much less prevalent and on certain occasions it's for some incentive. With Rarity....she's clearly taking advantage of his affection, at least some of the time. Edited August 2, 2014 by LZRD WZRD

[Fractured 2,684]

Calm down, lol, I never said this is exclusive to Rarity. But with Twilight, his work is based around a professional relationship. And with the others, it's much less prevalent and on certain occasions it's for some incentive. With Rarity....she's clearly taking advantage of his affection, at least some of the time.

He does these things because he likes them. It's only manipulation if the person is against the action. Were Rarity to push him, it would be manipulation, but she asks,politely, and he does, and she's never had any reason to suspect that he doesn't want to do the things that he does. Spike, for his part, may show struggle to carry the offending objects, but it's generally used in a light, joking manner, serious complaints never leave his mouth. He doesn't even complain about doing work for other's when no one is around; he genuinely doesn't seem to mind doing things for others.

[Pinkamena-Pills 6,839]

Maybe,maybe not. Too bad we will never know for sure because the show is called "Friendship is Magic" not "Friendship is Milking Crushes".  

 

Owell,right? 

[LZRD WZRD 1,929]

He does these things because he likes them. It's only manipulation if the person is against the action. Were Rarity to push him, it would be manipulation, but she asks,politely, and he does, and she's never had any reason to suspect that he doesn't want to do the things that he does. Spike, for his part, may show struggle to carry the offending objects, but it's generally used in a light, joking manner, serious complaints never leave his mouth. He doesn't even complain about doing work for other's when no one is around; he genuinely doesn't seem to mind doing things for others.

Well I think it's clear why he does things for Rarity (trying to impress her and gain her affection). Spike acts like a total beta male for Rarity, who knows this, but still gets him to do things. She really should either stop doing this or confront Spike and straight up tell him that they aren't going to be a thing. Doing what she does is leading him on and is not really how a good friend should act.

[Pastel 7,630]

Almost every pony are taking advantage of him anyway... Rarity a bit more than the others.

1. Tell Spike she doesn't have feelings for him - This would break poor Spike's heart. She just can't do this, and she wouldn't want to hurt him like that.

But this is the best thing she can do. The longer she waits, the more disappointed Spike will be. Edited August 2, 2014 by Blobulle

[GenderIsAnIllusion 2,177]

Everything he does is completely of his own free will.... Does she take advantage of this?.... Well yes, but it's better than crushing his soul into a million tiny pieces...

[Fractured 2,684]

Well I think it's clear why he does things for Rarity (trying to impress her and gain her affection). Spike acts like a total beta male for Rarity, who knows this, but still gets him to do things. She really should either stop doing this or confront Spike and straight up tell him that they aren't going to be a thing. Doing what she does is leading him on and is not really how a good friend should act.

The phrase "leading him on" leads me to think two things:

 

1: Spike wants something more; sex, or at least a girlfriend.

2: Rarity knows Spike wants something more, and is using that against him as a weapon.

 

I'm going to throw out the sex idea entirely due to a ton of biological issues and focus on the girlfriend idea.

 

Spike has never, at any point, expressed any attitude that shows that he feels Rarity is playing his affections, not even in private thoughts or the entire episodes he's been by himself.This entire idea revolves more on the axis of a childhood crush,completely innocent in nature. He's happy just spending time with her, and doing things around the house is what he naturally does, and does most; if the two of them happen to go together, so much the better.

 

Rarity, for her part, has never expressed that she thinks Spike's interest in her is anything more than "good friend" status.If she does, in fact,know, it becomes more of a "why ruin a good thing" ideology, as both parties are currently perfectly happy where they are. She treats him, in general, the way she treats all of her close friends. When she needs help, she'll ask for it, but she never takes anything without giving something in return. Spike, for his part, receives gems from her on most occasions in return for his work.

 

So no, I don't think she's leading him on; Spike has never expressed wanting anything more than the time he already spends with Rarity.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Shimmer5000

[Obsidian Sky 14,004]

Almost every pony are taking advantage of him anyway... Rarity a bit more than the others.

But this is the best thing she can do. The longer she waits, the more disappointed Spike will be.

Taking advantage of him is the false word, he helps Rarity more than the rest of the mane6 apart from Twi, but she also gives him more back than the rest.

 

What Spike has here is just a childrens crush, he will some day get over it, no intervention from Rares required, her behavior is fine. I had a childrens chrush once too and got over it, and it did not hurt or disappoint me in the slightest. People need to stop comparing the relationship of Spike and Rarity to real adult ones. It is just a stupid crush on Spikes part, not real love.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Obsidian Sky

[Ianpiersonjdavis 513]

"The getting over crushes" point that's been brought up feels like it has a lot of merit considering Rarity has had a crush on at least two stallions-Blueblood and Trenderhoof, respectively-and gradually came to realize that things would not work out between them or that she was pursuing an idealized version of the guy she wanted to start a relationship with.

 

Maybe these experiences have taught her that Spike might one day grow out of his schoolboy crush and realize it would not work out instead of blatantly stating it to him, devastating him, and risk ruining their friendship?

 

Besides, while she may do this occasionally they are things he wants to do and it's not like she's manipulating him with false pretenses by saying things like; "If you do this for me, I'll go out with you" or saying things lie; "Why aren't you doing so and so-don't you love me?"

Edited August 2, 2014 by Ianpiersonjdavis

[yeet 2,027]

Spikes got the dragon code. We saw it with applejack. We see it with twilight. And because he has a crush on rarity maybe there is something in the dragon code that says he has to help is crushes. And then he would want to anyway, also she is twilights friend, and I'm pretty sure he has helped all of the mane six at some point. Probably even helped pinkie to make the course in the maud episode.

[Old Fluttershy 349]

When Spike helps Twilight I always felt it was more like an employer/employee relationship. Twilight hatched Spike as an egg and he basically became her "helper."

[GreyScholar 1,584]

When Spike helps Twilight I always felt it was more like an employer/employee relationship. Twilight hatched Spike as an egg and he basically became her "helper."

This does bring up an interesting question... has the show ever said or suggested it was a paid employment or service?

 

Was it ever established that Twilight gives compensation to Spike for all he does? As an actual employer/employee relationship.

 

I don't believe I have even once seen Twilight pay Spike for being her assistant.

Edited August 2, 2014 by EquestrianScholar

[Jeric 46,851]

Before I go posting a series of literary themed post(s) here I do want to ask some probing questions since the topics is focused on femininity being weaponized in some way.

 

Anyone here married or in what they would qualify as a long term relationship?

Anyone have a close friend that exudes a sense of sexuality from them like a sort of aura?

 

I think questions like this help to frame the response to whether or not Rarity is using Spike or taking advantage of his crush on her.

[Obsidian Sky 14,004]

Before I go posting a series of literary themed post(s) here I do want to ask some probing questions since the topics is focused on femininity being weaponized in some way.

 

Anyone here married or in what they would qualify as a long term relationship?

Anyone have a close friend that exudes a sense of sexuality from them like a sort of aura?

 

I think questions like this help to frame the response to whether or not Rarity is using Spike or taking advantage of his crush on her.

Nope

 

and

 

Nope

 

Forever alone...

[~ Indigo Windigo ~ 232]

That's not what you think, Spike automatically wants to be her ''slave'' Spike loves Rarity and Rarity ''likes'' or loves Spike it's not that Rarity is having a ''secret plan'' to make Spike keep working

[Old Fluttershy 349]

 

I don't believe I have even once seen Twilight pay Spike for being her assistant

Hmmm, I'd have to look for that but I agree. I havn't seen Twilight "pay" Spike for his services. Accept for...maybe more of a mother/son relationship. But if that is true then that is a lot of chores for one kid to do.

[Jeric 46,851]

You know what? Screw it ... I'm hitting the ground running here. Also, someone spilled something on my keyboard. I'm annoyed and this may come off as snarky because my 'D' and 'F' key are still sticking.

 

Creating Character Relationships

 

Does Rarity take advantage of Spike? Is Spike being naive?  Just a brief internal review of what I know about developing complex character relationships tells me that their relationship dynamic has been explored ad infinitum, and the examples I am about to use here have been used to discuss this very topic previously. Simply put, Spike and Rarity are among great company.

 

 

 

 

In all of literary themed debates I've been a part of involving the question of one sided devotion, these  two characters -- Bilbo Baggins and Samwise Gamgee -- come of routinely. It's almost like an unwritten rule when the theme of loyalty comes up. I almost feel like I don't need to go into this any more than just a mention. No, while this is not a romantic crush, the love Sam has for Frodo is poignant and one of the strongest character threads in the whole series. Without that bond, the journey to Mount Doom falls apart. We know that Sam is unquestionably devoted. Sam is Frodo's faithful servant, allowing for Frodo to have a sort of empowerment over him which Frodo does use. That empowerment starts to diminish as Frodo relies emotionally on this bond, but Sam still continues to feel responsible for Frodo's care. The end result of this relationship is that the hope for Hobbiton and its future is handed down to Sam when Frodo bequeaths Bag End to him. Devotion, love, and loyalty becoming something greater and later repaid in ways that were unexpected to Samwise.

 

While Rarity used her natural charms on Spike and allowed him to dote on her, it stopped being a one sided devotion long ago. Rarity's relationship with Spike has grown, not just in the heads of fans, over the course of the series. As Ghostie pointed out, Rarity feels protective of him and has aggressively stated that. Spike's crush seems to have matured a little and I hope that this is explored subtly as the series goes forward. Their mutual experiences with one another have change the ultimate trajectory of the characters and if you were to ask me today ... I would expect Rarity to reciprocate at some point similar to Frodo.

 

 

 

The Gem

 

That MA Larson thing kinda blew my mind a little. So much so that I'm trying to wrap my head around how that changes my view on Rarity and Spike. To me the ruby he gives her represents a key turning point in their friendship. That's an important aspect of the relationship that people miss because they may see Rarity as materialistic. Perhaps, but not in a greedy sort of way. To Rarity, the inanimate world takes on meaning and a soul. Symbolism; the world around her has value beyond what others see. That is how many artists view the landscape that they occupy. You see this in how she talks about fabric and fashion. As Rarity creates a dress she is approaching it like an artist and imbuing it with passion that goes beyond a simple whipstich or overlock & purl. The lifeless has life, the life she gives it. To her, gifts from friends would have the same meaning to her. That ruby was Spike and his friendship. Who here has an object that they treasure deeply? What memories does it unlock when you hold it? To her that gem was more than just 'oooh pretty' ... it was a moment in time, captured and preserved. The physical representation of an evolving friendship.

 

That moment where she defends the ruby, and then falls ... that scene. Ok, this is the 2nd time I have used this emoticon ... but it needs it.

 

 

 

 

More to come. I gotta fix this damn keyboard.

[Nerdy Luigi 2,065]

Really, she is.

 

the way she greets Spike is even an example, other than the ones already mentioned. Even that hints at it, really.

 

But as said, the relationship wouldn't work out anyways, because Spike is a dragon (a BABY dragon) and Rarity is a pony (an ADULT pony, assumedly).

[Jeric 46,851]

Communicating Desire

 

Now to address the idea that using any form of emotional communication to obtain something you want being inherently distasteful. Yeah, no. To say that is akin to saying that you don't value a relationship with a spouse, a parent, or a good friend. Hell even strangers. To simplify this:

 

"Hey dad, give me $20.00 now, I need it."

"Daaaaaddy. You think I can maybe have some money to go see a movie with Jaime?"

 

"You think you might be able to get your lazy ass off the phone and maybe fix the ceiling fan?"

Standing behind arms wrapped around in soft hug with chin resting on shoulder, "Hey honey, when you get a moment the ceiling fan is still making that God awful squeak." Kisses cheek. 

 

Both my wife and my daughters know how to approach a request to get a response that they desire. This does NOT make them a lesser person. I do admit that on occasion this sort of characteristic flirting from the wife does make me go, "Damn it!" But we all do the same thing. Subconsciously or consciously. We alter how we communicate to achieve our objectives. And I kinda like it with my wife flirts with me.

 

 

Even in the form of obvious obligation. My boss doesn't say ... "Hey get your Code Monkeys in gear, I need this shit deployed tomorrow!"

[Obsidian Sky 14,004]

Really, she is.

 

the way she greets Spike is even an example, other than the ones already mentioned. Even that hints at it, really.

 

But as said, the relationship wouldn't work out anyways, because Spike is a dragon (a BABY dragon) and Rarity is a pony (an ADULT pony, assumedly).

How is the fact that she greets him in a affectionate way an example of that? Isnt that just Spike in this case that gets something?

 

Thats actually more of an example that both get something out of their friendship.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Obsidian Sky