Is Rarity milking Spike's crush?

[Old Fluttershy 349]

Ok let's be honest here, Spike has basically been a slave for Rarity ever since he met her. And I really don't think that she is helping with the whole "but Spiky-Wiky I just need one more thing." And because of his crush he complies with it. I feel like she's taking advantage of Spike's crush but I'm not an expert on these types of things.

[Luna 831 465]

spike likes rairty and rairty loves spike. No she is not takeing advantage of him.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Luna 831

[EpitomeOfTruth 243]

No. I've yet to see Rarity take advantage of Spike.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

Spike is no pony's slave, more if he was I would say you have a better case for Twilight treating him as such as he helps her out more.

 

That and it in a part of Spike's personality to be helpful and willingly does things for others.

 

Rarity is no more using Spike for her own selfish gain then Twilight is.

Edited August 2, 2014 by EquestrianScholar

[LZRD WZRD 1,929]

Yes. One episode (can't think of it. In fact it's probably happened many times) she has Spike carry her luggage. Another she had him clean her house. So yeah, Rarity's pretty manipulative of him

Edited August 2, 2014 by LZRD WZRD

[EpitomeOfTruth 243]

^Both of those tasks are thing Spike would have been willing to do, whether she asked or not.

[ghostfacekiller39 23,857]

Old Fluttershy, on 01 Aug 2014 - 9:48 PM, said:

 

I feel like she's taking advantage of Spike's crush but I'm not an expert on these types of things.

Yeahh, she's taking advantage of it a bit, but really, first off, she's a flawed character, just like pretty much the entire mane 6 - if they didn't have flaws, they'd have nothing to develop and they wouldn't be very good characters if life was perfect and they had nothing to improve upon, would they?

 

Then, keep in mind that you just can't accuse Rarity alone of this behavior. Twilight often takes advantage of Spike's loyalty to her just as much, and to be honest, probably moreso than Rarity does, but I don't think you brought that up once Kind of feels like you're out to get Rarity here, but let's put that aside for now.

 

So, we've established that 1.) She does take advantage of it, to an extent and 2.) She's not alone in taking advantage of Spike, and there's a possibility of a character doing it even moreso than her.

 

There's also the last question we gotta answer: Is Spike suffering?

 

I don't know about you, but when I see it happening, I don't really see Spike in too much pain He actually looks rather happy to help her. Really, do you see any suffering when it happens? He's not really in a whole lot of pain and certainly doesn't look like he's being treated like a "slave" - that's a very strong word to use, given it's historical context linked to discrmination and violence, and all I see is stuff happening along these lines:

 

Rarity: "Oh, Spike-wikey! Would you be a dear and help me with those bags please? "

 

Spike: "Of course I will, Rarity! "

 

Rarity: "Why thank you ever so much, darling! "

 

And Spike gushes over her and proceeds to go do what she asked.

 

So, we've established the following:

• She does take advantage of it at times, but she's not alone in being guilty of it, and there's a possibility that another character is guilty of this behavior even more than she is.
• Spike isn't being forced to do it, and he seems to get a genuine pleasure from helping her out.

But there's another thing being left out of your analysis - Rarity has displayed numerous times that she cares greatly for Spike and his well being, just not in a way like he cares for her (and for good reason, he's still a child.)

 

What about this, for instance?

 

 

These could've been her dying moments, for all we know, and it's a miracle that RD and Fluttershy were able to save them.

 

And even on a more day to day scale and less life or death, there's stuff like this:

 

 

Where she was willing to fight a bunch of teenage dragons to protect Spike from being in danger.

 

Do you see my point? It happens some, but it's a far cry from slavery and she even cares about him and does stuff or him, and there's a lot of variables being left out here in the OP  

 

I hope I was able to help you see things from a different perspective

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

Well, it depends. In the episode were fluttershy met iron will, we did see Rarity using her physical attractiveness to manipulate a stallion, so she has proved in a canon environment that she is willing to use her body to gain and advantage over others. When it comes to whether or not she does this with spike deals alot with perception. She sure does seem to imply with her physicality that there is something to be gained from spike assisting her (like the close up when spike gave her the heart ruby, she was most certainly using her physicality in that instance to gain what she wanted). However in 90% of their encounters, spike does seem to be doing the actions of his own accord, without any implied or direct incentive from Rarity.

[Banul 3,831]

I've always seen it more as a transaction. Rarity gets help from Spike. Spike, in turn, gets Rarities affection. Both parties get what they want. Seems like a fair exchange to me.

[ghostfacekiller39 23,857]

like the close up when spike gave her the heart ruby, she was most certainly using her physicality in that instance to gain what she wanted

Actually, this is a good point and something I need to bring up about their friendship - it was actually confirmed by M.A. Larson that it was just Spike's imagination getting the better of him. He was just ogling over her

 

 

Proof:

 

 

Just for future reference in this thread - I know that scene is something that often gets brought up a lot in this discussion, at least from my experience 

 

Edited August 2, 2014 by Ghostie Belle

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

Actually, this is a good point and something I need to bring up about their friendship - it was actually confirmed by M.A. Larson that it was just Spike's imagination getting the better of him. He was just ogling over her

 

 

Proof:

 

 

Just for future reference in this thread - I know that scene is something that often gets brought up a lot in this discussion, at least from my experience 

 

While that scene may be explained away, she did infact use her physical attractiveness to show case "assertiveness" to fluttershy.  So she has proven that in a canon environment (not to mention the EqG2 short) that she is willing to use her physicality to gain favor from others. She may not be doing so with spike, but she has proven to be fully willing to do so.

[Guest90210 3,567]

Let's look at it from Rarity's perspective. She realizes that a serious relationship wouldn't work between the two, so she can do one of two things.

 

1. Tell Spike she doesn't have feelings for him - This would break poor Spike's heart. She just can't do this, and she wouldn't want to hurt him like that.

 

2. Not exactly steer him either way - This is what she has been doing, and I think it's the best possible solution. Spike isn't heartbroken and Rarity doesn't have to lie to him. Sometimes she might seem like she's taking advantage of the situation, maybe so. But sometimes it's unwillingly (like in that episode with Trenderhoof, and she even thanks him repeatedly if I remember correctly).

[GreyScholar 1,584]

She sure does seem to imply with her physicality that there is something to be gained from spike assisting her (like the close up when spike gave her the heart ruby, she was most certainly using her physicality in that instance to gain what she wanted).

It has offically been said by the writers to be from Spikes point of view and not a true reflection of Rarity's behavior.

 

I feel a good comparison is Trenderhoif's view of Applejack when he first meets her.

 

Though really even then I would argue against Rarity manipulating Spike and using her body language to get the fire ruby. Sure Rarity is showing admiration for the gem but she was not actively trying to get it from Spike.

 

I wish fans would stop reading into that scene what is not there, or at least not intended to be seen.

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

It has offically been said by the writers to be from Spikes point of view and not a true reflection of Rarity's behavior.

 

I feel a good comparison is Trenderhoif's view of Applejack when he first meets her.

 

Though really even then I would argue against Rarity manipulating Spike and using her body language to get the fire ruby. Sure Rarity is showing admiration for the gem but she was not actively trying to get it from Spike.

 

I wish fans would stop reading into that scene what is not there, or at least not intended to be seen.

Well not only are you a day late and a dollar short (and lacking the citation that another member has already posted) But remember, this is a cartoon, unless otherwise told everything is to be taken literal, as the figurative is often outside the grasp of its main target audience. And again, you focused on that one point to draw out an argument, and ignored the fact that not only did she already use her physicality to gain favor when demonstrating assertiveness to fluttershy, but her human counter part used it in a EqG 2 short. And reading into the scene would be taking it as spikes POV without the clarification form Larson, as again, unless proven otherwise all evidence in a children's cartoon is to be taken literally.

[Fractured 2,683]

While that scene may be explained away, she did infact use her physical attractiveness to show case "assertiveness" to fluttershy.  So she has proven that in a canon environment (not to mention the EqG2 short) that she is willing to use her physicality to gain favor from others. She may not be doing so with spike, but she has proven to be fully willing to do so.

It seems everyone forgot, but in Putting Your Hoof Down, she gives the nerd pony money in exchange for the asparagus. It was a fair trade, not her using her attractiveness to get what she wants from people.

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

It seems everyone forgot, but in Putting Your Hoof Down, she gives the nerd pony money in exchange for the asparagus. It was a fair trade, not her using her attractiveness to get what she wants from people.

But she used her physical attractiveness to facilitate said trade. And everyone seems to forget, that the diamond dogs gained nothing in return for moving the piano.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

Well not only are you a day late and a dollar short.

I was late by 15 minutes, sue me. I am. Using my phone which makes things much slower and because of such I also didn't want to waste more time hunting down the source.

 

Second, unless your an adult or lile to over analyze things, I do not believe a child would come to the conclusion that Rarity manipulated Spike and stole his heart ruby.

 

I would comment on the nerd pony scene but someone beat me to it.

Edited August 2, 2014 by EquestrianScholar

[ghostfacekiller39 23,857]

But she used her physical attractiveness to facilitate said trade. And everyone seems to forget, that the diamond dogs gained nothing in return for moving the piano.

It wasn't like he was cheated or in suffering, though He looked pretty happy to give it to her, and it isn't like she outright stole it. What would've been immoral is if she at least didn't bother to pay him back, because in all honesty, she didn't even have to do that She just slipped the bit into his bag when he wasn't looking and went on her merry 'ol way.

 

Of course, while she does have this ability, the only reason she used it at that point in time was to help her friend, anyway - never really used it for personal gain up until the Diamond Dogs thing that was mentioned, but meh. They were pretty eager to do it and they weren't really forced to do it at gunpoint or anything like that. Seemed pretty happy to help her

Edited August 2, 2014 by Ghostie Belle

[GreyScholar 1,584]

And everyone seems to forget, that the diamond dogs gained nothing in return for moving the piano.

You seem to forget they ponynapped her and tried makimg her their labor slave.

 

They might have help her partly to just stay on her good side.

Edited August 2, 2014 by EquestrianScholar

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

I was late by 15 minutes, sue me. I am. Using my phone which makes things much slower and because of such I also didn't want to waste more time hunting down the source.

 

Second, unless your an adult or lile to over analyze things, I do not believe a child would come to the conclusion that Rarity manipulated Spike and stole his heart ruby.

 

I would comment on the nerd pony scene bit someone beat me too it.

Well again mate, if you are going to make a refuting claim, normally you would back it up with some evidence. So if not for another users post, that point would be ignored.

Secondly, the obvious intention (without larson providing more context) is that rarity is fluttering her eyes and trying to beguile the ruby from spike. And yes, due to the overt nature of that scene, with the hearts in the air and her facial expressions it could be fairly clear to a child that is what is going on. Akin to how tenderhoof viewed Applejack, the overtness is there to convey that he is "in love" with her. So without the contextual clarification provided by Larson, it would be safe to assume that she was beguiling the ruby from spike.

You seem to forget they ponynapped her and tried makimg her their laborslave.

 

They might have help her partly to just stay on her good side.

You seem to be taking this argument off topic, and forget that the human rarity was never kidnaped by the diamond dog humans, but her character still showed the willingness for using her physicality to gain favor. She is not doing so with spike (as proven by larson and McCarthy) but she has proven that she can and will do it.

It wasn't like he was cheated or in suffering, though He looked pretty happy to give it to her, and it isn't like she outright stole it. What would've been immoral is if she at least didn't bother to pay him back, because in all honesty, she didn't even have to do that She just slipped the bit into his bag when he wasn't looking and went on her merry 'ol way.

 

Of course, while she does have this ability, the only reason she used it at that point in time was to help her friend, anyway - never really used it for personal gain up until the Diamond Dogs thing that was mentioned, but meh. They were pretty eager to do it and they weren't really forced to do it at gunpoint or anything like that. Seemed pretty happy to help her

The point I was originally making, was that despite her proven ability and willingness to use her charm, she was not doing so to spike, as she has never been shown using it on him.

[ghostfacekiller39 23,857]

with the hearts in the air and her facial expressions it could be fairly clear to a child that is what is going on.

 

So without the contextual clarification provided by Larson, it would be safe to assume that she was beguiling the ruby from spike.

This is something that I find to be confusing - I personally was able to realize that it was an over-exaggeration because the background faded into something that was completely different than the Golden Oak Library and there were hearts fluttering all about, and as you said, kids are likely able to understand the same thing.

 

But, because of the way the background reacted (and turned into what seemed like a strange pink-and-white desolate void) I'd have trouble believing otherwise - that's not something that just randomly happens It could be a safe assumption, but it's better not to make claims with just an assumption, and this one is fairly obvious if one were to look into it with the slightest attention to detail

Edited August 2, 2014 by Ghostie Belle

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

This is something that I find to be confusing - I personally was able to realize that it was an over-exaggeration because the background faded into something that was completely different than the Golden Oak Library and there were hearts fluttering all about, and as you said, kids are likely able to understand the same thing.

 

But, because of the way the background reacted (and turned into what seemed like a strange pink-and-white desolate void) I'd have trouble believing otherwise - that's not something that just randomly happens It could be a safe assumption, but it's better not to make claims with just an assumption, and this one is fairly obvious with if one were to look into it with the slightest attention to detail

Well, again remember the context, this is a cartoon :comeatus: . Having random hearts and pink break out is a feature that can regularly occur in a cartoon were they break out into song and dance at a whim. So again, without the context provided by larson, with the standard cartoon context it would be safe for one to assume that the scene is being fairly literal .

[Yummychickenblue 301]

 

Yeahh, she's taking advantage of it a bit, but really, first off, she's a flawed character, just like pretty much the entire mane 6 - if they didn't have flaws, they'd have nothing to develop and they wouldn't be very good characters if life was perfect and they had nothing to improve upon, would they?

Then, keep in mind that you just can't accuse Rarity alone of this behavior. Twilight often takes advantage of Spike's loyalty to her just as much, and to be honest, probably moreso than Rarity does, but I don't think you brought that up once Kind of feels like you're out to get Rarity here, but let's put that aside for now.

So, we've established that 1.) She does take advantage of it, to an extent and 2.) She's not alone in taking advantage of Spike, and there's a possibility of a character doing it even moreso than her.

There's also the last question we gotta answer: Is Spike suffering?

I don't know about you, but when I see it happening, I don't really see Spike in too much pain He actually looks rather happy to help her. Really, do you see any suffering when it happens? He's not really in a whole lot of pain and certainly doesn't look like he's being treated like a "slave" - that's a very strong word to use, given it's historical context linked to discrmination and violence, and all I see is stuff happening along these lines:Rarity: "Oh, Spike-wikey! Would you be a dear and help me with those bags please? "Spike: "Of course I will, Rarity! "Rarity: "Why thank you ever so much, darling! "

And Spike gushes over her and proceeds to go do what she asked.

So, we've established the following:

 

• She does take advantage of it at times, but she's not alone in being guilty of it, and there's a possibility that another character is guilty of this behavior even more than she is.
• Spike isn't being forced to do it, and he seems to get a genuine pleasure from helping her out.

But there's another thing being left out of your analysis - Rarity has displayed numerous times that she cares greatly for Spike and his well being, just not in a way like he cares for her (and for good reason, he's still a child.)

What about this, for instance?

These could've been her dying moments, for all we know, and it's a miracle that RD and Fluttershy were able to save them.

And even on a more day to day scale and less life or death, there's stuff like this:

[/size]

[/color]

Where she was willing to fight a bunch of teenage dragons to protect Spike from being in danger.

Do you see my point? It happens some, but it's a far cry from slavery and she even cares about him and does stuff or him, and there's a lot of variables being left out here in the OP  

I hope I was able to help you see things from a different perspective

 

 

Wow, going back and watching those it's a lot more moving now than it was when I originally watched the episodes.

[ghostfacekiller39 23,857]

Well, again remember the context, this is a cartoon :comeatus: . Having random hearts and pink break out is a feature that can regularly occur in a cartoon were they break out into song and dance at a whim. So again, without the context provided by larson, with the standard cartoon context it would be safe for one to assume that the scene is being fairly literal .

But what about the background fading into some weird, desolate void? In the standard cartoon context, isn't that usually relegated to when the character in question is in some sort of lofty daydream, which was indeed the case?

 

Furthermore, the majority of the time the more cartoony effects such as that are limited to Pinkie Pie, and hardly ever apply to any other character - and when they do, the more outlandish ones (like hearts floating about) aren't used, hence, this scene. The most basic understanding of Rarity's character and that little, tiny, and not-so-subtly-executed knowledge of how MLP: FiM handles cartoon effects would be all that was needed to understand the true context in that scene

 

Edited August 2, 2014 by Ghostie Belle

[Sunny Fox 5,932]

Actually, I've talked about this at length in a blog entry: http://mlpforums.com/blog/1083/entry-9977-looking-at-rarity-part-2-flawed-fashionista/

 

I'll just copy and paste it.

 

***

***

As a Rarity fan, I often cite her complexity as one of the reasons to like her. That complexity comes about because there are some flaws which Rarity has and that need to be acknowledged. Fans like myself, and anyone who uses her complexity as a reason why she is a good character, can’t have our Fire Ruby and eat it too. We simply cannot try to explain away all her flaws, because then we’re implying she is perfect, and that isn’t what makes a character interesting and likeable.

That being the case, I now want to look at her flaws, the ones I think need to be acknowledged. There are also come criticisms that fans may level at her that I don’t think are entirely fair, and I’ll explain why I disagree. So let’s have another look at Rarity, our flawed little diamond.

 

Manipulative
Oh, for a certainty, Rarity uses her beauty and charm to get others to do what she wants them to do. In The Best Night Ever. she charmed some stallions into pulling the carriage to the Grand Galloping Gala. She successfully relieved Spike of his precious Fire Ruby in Secret of my Excess. Speaking of Spike, she often gets him to carry her things, and if he’s reluctant, she only has to bat her eyelashes at him. She flattered a decidedly unhandsome pony shamelessly so as to get his asparagus away from him. She expressed a desire to have someone eternally in her debt so that she could get them to do things for her in Spike at your Service.

The thing is, even though I can acknowledge this as somewhat ignoble, the more vociferous among Rarity’s detractors tend to make more of this fault than it actually warrants. They mistake manipulation for selfishness, when it often isn’t the case. Let’s look at the examples above.

The Carriage Incident in “The Best Night Ever”
Twilight had enchanted mice into horses to pull the carriage, but they were chased away by Opal. There was a problem facing her friends, and Rarity is the one who knew exactly what to do. She simply asked some of her neighbours for help. They were quite happy to do so, and it was for the good of the whole Mane Six, not just Rarity.

The Asparagus Incident in “Putting Your Hoof Down”
First of all, many fans seem to forget that Rarity’s intention was to help Fluttershy, who had been unfairly deprived of her asparagus. That isn’t selfish, it’s supportive. Sure, poor Poindexter lost his asparagus, but how many fans notice that she actually paid him back the coin he had spent? She didn’t leave him short, even though he was eating out of her hoof and seemingly wouldn’t have cared if Rarity were to steal both his kidneys to go with the asparagus. She could have taken advantage of him far more than she did. Heck, he’ll probably remember the time a pretty girl pony flirted with him with a warm fuzzy feeling for the rest of his life. In my fanfiction brainspace, that incident actually made him braver and more confident about his looks, and led to him being happily married to a lovely pony lass in the future. (Hands off, fanfiction writers! This idea is mine!  )

The Fire Ruby Incident in “Secret of my Excess”
Anyone who accuses Rarity of being selfish or greedy in this scene is not giving it enough consideration. Let’s do a play-by-play, shall we? She originally enters the library in order to ask Twilight for a book about fashion. Before she can do so, she is distracted by the sight of the Fire Ruby, and gushes over how beautiful it is. At this point, there is nothing to indicate she wants it for herself. She is just appreciating it for its beauty and even turns away from it when Twilight asks her why she is there in the first place. Then she realizes that Spike called the gem “totally delicious”, and when he confirms that he is going to eat it, she looks devastated, not avaricious. This is the thing that some fans (perhaps willfully; perhaps not) misunderstand: she doesn’t want the gem as a pretty bauble for herself. She wants it because otherwise Spike will eat it and destroy its beauty forever. Rarity lives for beauty and the thought of something so lovely just being eaten and destroyed is unbearable to her.

Twilight gives her the book she needs, and again, Rarity turns away from the gem and talks about other plans she has. Then she remembers that Spike is going to eat it. At this point, we see she wants to get the gem, and even bites her own hoof to stop herself from asking for it. In fact, she never does ask for it, even though she clearly wants it. She mentions again how beautiful it is. This is the point where Spike himself notices that she wants it. Eventually, he offers it to her as a gift. From her expression, it’s clear that she is taken aback by this: she actually shows surprise that he is giving it to her, and is genuinely delighted, pronouncing it as the most generous gesture she has ever experienced.

None of the above is at all congruent with a callous and selfish manipulation. Any fan reducing this intricate interplay of motives and events to “she wanted it, so she manipulated him into giving it to her” is doing not only Rarity, but also Spike, a grievous disservice. It was a meaningful gesture of sacrifice and generosity on Spike’s part, motivated by the desire to make the one he loves happy. That Rarity got what she wished from it in the end is not an indication of her selfishness or manipulative tendencies. The fact that she continually turned away, kept herself from outright asking for it, and didn’t act like it was a foregone conclusion when she finally did get a hold of it, shows that she wasn’t single-mindedly dedicated to seducing the gem away from him.

 

***

As you can see, I don't need confirmation from the show staff in order to defend Rarity!   

***

And this is from the follow up: http://mlpforums.com/blog/1083/entry-10976-looking-at-rarity-part-3-allies-associates-and-antagonists/

 

***

***

Spike

 
This is one of the most important and talked about relationships in the series. Ironically, given that FiM doesn’t have much by way of romance. A lot of people give Rarity grief over what they see as her taking advantage of him. In some ways, they’re right, but it’s actually much more of a give and take than is sometimes recognized. Yes, she gets him to do stuff for her, but most of the time, Spike’s perfectly okay with it. And she’s hardly the only Mane Six who does. She also frequently gives him rewards for his troubles, such as gems to eat, a carrot-dog, etc. She also sticks up for Spike frequently, and went to great lengths to keep him safe in “Dragon Quest”. It’s clear that she does care for him in her own way.

I suspect that Rarity simply doesn’t know exactly how to handle Spike’s precocious crush on her. After all, by the standards of dragonhood, Spike is not even a teenager yet. She can’t view him as a romantic prospect, but she cares for him and certainly wouldn’t want to hurt his feelings. So, until she can find a way to let him down gently, she keeps their relationship at status quo. Perhaps in her mind, letting him do things for her is a way of showing that she does want him to be around. Not always, of course, but I think that’s a large part of it.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Sunny Fox