Why Aren't You an Athiest?

[J.J 923]

3 minutes ago, Props ValRoa said:

@Spook Conundrum

A lot of this stuff I don't really know what to comment on since I've never looked into it. I come from a non-religious upbringing, so religious stuff in general I am naturally quite skeptical of. In my mind, what I percieve from all sides is a strong and nefarious elite that seeks to impose it's will on the world by distorting historical and scientific knowledge to suit it's aims. It is exceedingly difficult for me to find any satisfactory truth in the vast majority of subjects due to this. It is something I have to reconcile with.

I do not like the labeling. "Christian", "Athiest", "Religious"...is all just terms to divide groups of people. We all may actually be saying the same thing in different terms, but because of those labels, that's what we see first. Kind of like when a bull sees red. I wonder if that is by design.

Perhaps there is an absolute truth, perhaps not, with this kind of material, it is hard for me to tell what is of genuine intention or of deception. 

Since this concerns the subject, I'd like to share with you a dream I had, actually. I have no idea why I am sharing this. Just morbid curiosity. - 

Satan was once a mortal man by the name of Midas. He ascended himself into what he became somehow, with "All the good intentions at heart". His skin turned a sort of light purple color and his fingernails turned black and grew long. His eyes were black, and he had a black crown on his head.

Satan was often personified as sitting in a golden throne and having a powerful king bowing before him as if he was his servant, representing how the most powerful of rulers can be corrupted. Satan had an eye symbol on the back of his right hand. Satan went by many names, another was "Phlegethon" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phlegethon), that being the name of the planets around the star Nemesis, in my alternate history project.

When I told Celli I was a "peculiar Christian" by perception of the common Christian I was not lying, most Christians are entirely ignorant to Christian mysticism and would look down upon such things from certain lenses, our deviation from the mainstream churches teaches the importance these traditions played in medical advancements and procedures and the initial understanding of the human anatomy, my faith is probably why I am so into Fullmetal with all of its obvious references to the kabbalah, these aren't traditional beliefs for most western Christians but they are to thank for most modern medical innovations and advancement in chemistry... There's a lot on the topic I can go into if you're interested

[J.J 923]

2 minutes ago, Dark Bun said:

The fact of the matter is, while religious people have contributed the progression of scientific theories; that progression doesn't stem from religion itself. It comes from the individual motivation to pursue something, and you can pursue how to make better medicines without needing a religious framework.

You just don't know where this information I initially came from, I'd have faith with or without the advancements in reality, but this is information that predates the human perception of faith itself, just like sacred geometry, there is a lot we don't know ourselves about the origin of this material, but some that we know has origins from the intervention of a higher power

[Dark Bun 681]

2 minutes ago, Spook Conundrum said:

You just don't know where this information I initially came from, I'd have faith with or without the advancements in reality, but this is information that predates the human perception of faith itself, just like sacred geometry, there is a lot we don't know ourselves about the origin of this material, but some that we know has origins from the intervention of a higher power

How do you know it is a of a higher power, or just from an origin we don't know about?

[J.J 923]

Moments ago, Dark Bun said:

How do you know it is a of a higher power, or just from an origin we don't know about?

Because that is the framework of my faith, and all faith in general which is why it's not really worth debating with an atheist over, atheists want to dismiss the possibility altogether which is what I have a problem with when scholars have been recording this history for thousands of years, and we have closer ties to attributing divine intervention than we do the absence of such....

[J.J 923]

Moments ago, Props ValRoa said:

I do not wish to dismiss the possibility. I just want to verify such a thing, and find actual proof of it.

Than you are possibly agnostic...

[Dark Bun 681]

3 minutes ago, Spook Conundrum said:

Because that is the framework of my faith, and all faith in general which is why it's not really worth debating with an atheist over, atheists want to dismiss the possibility altogether which is what I have a problem with when scholars have been recording this history for thousands of years, and we have closer ties to attributing divine intervention than we do the absence of such....

You can still be agnostic and a Christian or any other faith. Being gnostic or agnostic is probably what I'd rather talk about, because whether someone is 100% sure God is real or not real, I find it odd either way.

Do you consider yourself gnostic?

[J.J 923]

6 minutes ago, Dark Bun said:

You can still be agnostic and a Christian or any other faith. Being gnostic or agnostic is probably what I'd rather talk about, because whether someone is 100% sure God is real or not real, I find it odd either way.

Do you consider yourself gnostic?

Definitely more gnostic than belonging to a particular religious institution, I think there are pieces of the puzzle held in and throughout different religious cultures throughout the globe and far to many unanswered questions about how some of these cultures had such similar traditions around the same time, architectural intuitions, and other coincidental medical advancements without being involved with each other's cultures in the least bit...

I have a lot of wacky personal spiritual beliefs as well, like the coinciding of demonic entities and other non physical entities that don't materialize in the human form, I believe in the"power of Juju" xD to deeply to trust a world that prides itself in it's advancement in the use of mojo 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Spook Conundrum

[Splashee 28,564]

@Spook Conundrum, @Dark Bun, @Props ValRoa and the OP @Midnight Gaze

A discussion like this fits the Debate Pit better. This thread will be closed.

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,824]

Heya, I'm going to unlock this thread because it's a good question thread that yes, can spur debate but...it's not really fair to others to close a thread because of 3 people...

@Spook Conundrum @Dark Bun @Props ValRoa Perhaps you could continue your discussion in PM or create a thread centered around your discussion. 

I myself am not an atheist because I believe that Jesus died for me and rose again and is coming back to take His people to heaven. 

[Stancet 688]

Why am I not an athiest?

Because God has proven to me that He loves me.

I know many people will feel like that's a weak argument, or maybe you feel like God has let you down. If that's you, I hope and pray you'll know just how much God does love you.

[Bimbola2005 15]

Well, I am one; I don’t believe in any form of religion…

[Bimbola2005 15]

Oh well, I actually posted my comment before reading the entire thread, so I got interested on it and read it all…

It was… definitely something, there were a lot of interesting philosophies…

…and fights! 

[Evil Pink One 13,506]

Everyone has a religion... Being an atheist is a religion.

[Yakamaru 3,127]

25 minutes ago, Kujamih said:

Everyone has a religion... Being an atheist is a religion.

It isn't. A complete lack of faith isn't a religion. 

[Envy 6,163]

3 hours ago, Kujamih said:

Everyone has a religion... Being an atheist is a religion.

Atheism is merely the lack of belief in any deities. There is nothing else that that the word atheist in of itself deals with. Attaching a religion to that is asinine. No doubt there are atheists that are religious, but that is a separate question. I am atheist and irreligious.

 

[Evil Pink One 13,506]

2 hours ago, Envy said:

Atheism is merely the lack of belief in any deities. There is nothing else that that the word atheist in of itself deals with. Attaching a religion to that is asinine. No doubt there are atheists that are religious, but that is a separate question. I am atheist and irreligious.

 

Im sure you believe in something.... Money? Yourself? Science? Those can be your religion. Its what you believe in.

[DubWolf 17,263]

Because I don't want to look down.

[Splashee 28,564]

Not putting any labels on me. I accept anyone and their belief as long as it is not actively hurting people.

[Sonic Shimmer 4,132]

I’ve identified as agnostic for most of my life because I just don’t think it’s possible to prove or disprove the existence of a higher power. I don’t see absence of evidence as evidence of absence.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Sonic Shimmer

[Envy 6,163]

19 hours ago, Kujamih said:

Im sure you believe in something.... Money? Yourself? Science? Those can be your religion. Its what you believe in.

You are attempting to broaden the definition of religion so far that it completely loses any meaning of substance.

Lets look at Dictionary.com's definitions:
 

Quote

 

1. The belief in and worship of a superhuman power or powers, especially a God or gods.

"ideas about the relationship between science and religion"

 

Kinda an odd way of putting it here (I think supernatural is a better word than superhuman), but whatever. As you can see this does not at all describe anything you've talked about.

Quote

• a particular system of faith and worship.

  plural noun: religions

  "the world's great religions"

Again, this isn't a mere belief, or system of beliefs. It's a system of FAITH and WORSHIP.

Quote

• a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.

  "consumerism is the new religion"

You probably would look at this definition, but I think when you look at the way it is said, you understand that it is speaking of religion in a figurative sense, not a literal sense. In fact it comes off as very derisive of something.

---

Frankly, I don't understand why you want so badly to expand the term out of its bounds? What good does it do to make it lose meaning, so it can become a catch-all term of beliefs? I don't think many if any of us would easily accept this change. For myself - and I'm sure others - the term religion very strongly means in our minds supernatural belief systems and worship.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Envy