I can not fathom Celestia.

[cuteycindyhoney 13,309]

After countless millennia as ruler, Celestia is growing weary. She is guiding Twilight in her emotional growth, hoping against hope that Twilight will prove to be a worthy successor so she can finally step down and leave Equestria in Twilight's capable hooves. It may sound sad, but perhaps she even longs to let her endless life finally draw to a close. She can not do this though, unless she knows that all of the ponies will have a strong leader to protect them. 

EDIT>>>>>

 

 

I didn't see the comic below until after I made the comment above. This fits exactly what I was trying to say.

 

Think about it, if sunbutt would take care of all those villains, what purpose has Twilight and her friends then?

[Cleverclover 1,526]

 

 

Not true, she COULD stop chrysalis (she did once in the past), just not chrysalis powered up by Shining armor's love. Without feeding on shining armor Chrysalis is inferior to Celestia.

 

It really doesn't matter, and it also doesn't negate the fact that Celestia failed to detect Chrysalis under her nose, which is especially sad when you consider that Chrysalis didn't even try to be anything like the pony she was impersonating.  

 

The point remains that the notion that Celestia is pretty much capable of overcoming any threat with ease does not exist and has never existed. It nothing more than a poor, misguided excuse to nerf and depower her to the point where it seems like she isn't capable of handling anything on her own. 

[Commissar Alexer 763]

 

 

That coniving little... But wait. My analytical mind is going off. She says MANY of them, not all of them. Which means there is some villian out there, or possibly an all ready encountered one, that celestia KNOWS she can not defeat, but Twilight can. *strokes beard* very interesting...

You know she has a sister? If not alone then together with her sister and perhaps even Cadance too.

 

 

 

 

Uhhh, two things I feel the need to point out about this: 1. The notion that Celestia could have stopped most of the baddies that have appeared in the show is bullshit. Without the Elements of Harmony, she was shown to be virtually powerless against both Nightmare Moon and Discord. She obviously couldn't stop Chrysalis, and with Tirek, she decided to surrender herself, perhaps out of a lack of faith that she could do anything to stop him. So that pretty much just leaves Sombra. 2. Even regardless, she certainly should not be sacrificing Equestria just to force Twilight to learn something. That's nothing more than a sign of a poor leader.

 

And Twilight didn't?

 

Again, lets imagine Celestia owns Chrysalis and Tirek. What was the purpose of them then even appearing if she defeats them within minutes?

 

She was willing to banish her own Sister to the moon to save her subjects. Her own fucking sister!

Who by the way, was going to bring the world eternal darkness because ponies didnt appreaciate her night. Wow, attempting to kill the whole world because people dont like the night. Surely Moonbutt would make a better leader.

 

 

 

Man....that poor pony. Can't ever get a brake, always either a Tyrant, a incompetent ruler, a sexual predator, a insane troll or a lovestruck idiot who goes for her worst enemy.  

[Nature's Spell 526]

Cartoons need not align with our whims, desires, or thoughts about good government. It simply has to be entertaining and well designed, which the show is. It's not the real world or even a version of the real world, so their government doesn't have to be like ours.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

It is because Princess Celestia has actually been an outstanding leader during her time of rulership, at least better then any other pony who could rule. Whether the fact makes sense or not, she has ruled Equestria for a 1000 years where there is prosperity and ponies are happy.
 
The princess is still in power because she is a good pony with a wealth of experience and wisdom that no one else could really match, you can't beat the hooves on practice and learning being the sole leader of a nation for a 1000 years, and by all accounts shown she has done a good job.
 
Recent events, well things can't stay peaceful forever... especially with the sort of villians that have appeared over the last year. On all that, I offer you a video that goes over great length to explain how Princess Celestia isn't a terrible or foalish leader.

 

The comic already shown above, as well as the video below of a fanfiction by the FieryJoker explains things quite well I feel. I should warn, don't let the title and image deceive you as this is an impressive defense of Princess Celestia not the other way around:

[Number62 1,258]

The people behind the show are simply not good at handling Celestia. They could just as easily make her the "wise and competent ruler" (along with other descriptions) that the show and other tie-ins directly state, but they don't want to for whatever reason.

[Forward Bias 47]

Uhhh, two things I feel the need to point out about this: 

 

1. The notion that Celestia could have stopped most of the baddies that have appeared in the show is bullshit. Without the Elements of Harmony, she was shown to be virtually powerless against both Nightmare Moon and Discord. She obviously couldn't stop Chrysalis, and with Tirek, she decided to surrender herself, perhaps out of a lack of faith that she could do anything to stop him. So that pretty much just leaves Sombra. 

 

2. Even regardless, she certainly should not be sacrificing Equestria just to force Twilight to learn something. That's nothing more than a sign of a poor leader.

If we get picky about it we know that Celestia is capable of wielding the elements of harmony solo (see: the initial banishment of Nightmare Moon.) With Luna, they were capable of banishing Discord. Chrysalis and Tirek were cases where she couldn't do it alone, and it's worth mentioning that in the past, as she has done in the present, she has been wise enough to surround herself with competent and loyal allies such as Starswirl the Bearded.

 

As for why she would allow limited amounts of damage to Equestria to allow for the education of her student, it's worth remembering that if Ponyville were completely razed and everypony in it killed, it would represent only the smallest fraction of the number of ponies that Celestia is expected to safeguard and the hazards she has been facing for the last millennium are of the Discord and Tirek class, in which ALL of Equestria is at stake.

 

Twilight cannot be expected to go from 0 risk to "saving Equestria" in a single shot, and you wouldn't want to do that anyway lest you find out the hard way that she isn't up to the task. After years of training Celestia has been progressively increasing the risk of her lessons. By giving her student training wheel opportunities to save only a handful of ponies initially and then slowly adding ever increasing risks to the equation, when things like the Chrysalis event occur, Twilight won't crumble under the pressure of the high stakes, she'll simply take the small step up from "saving the town" to "saving the seat of government" without worrying about the fact that Canterlot has easily 10x-100x the population of Ponyville. It will just simply be "Saving folks" and the little things, like "But Celestia said I had to do this alone" won't get her tripped up; she'll have the confidence to make the decisions that need to be made, even if they're at her own expense.

 

Oh... And the fact that the way Celestia has been guiding Twilight's path works well in the classic hero's tale form of narration doesn't hurt things any either. It is a work of fiction after all.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Forward Bias

[Goat-kun 2,528]

Gandalf likes to troll people, throws dwarf parties in their houses without consent, steals horses, shows great disrespect to noble rulers, and is an all-around weird guy who often appears old and useless to an untrained eye. But no matter what you want to say about this wizard, his methods do have a tendency to work. I’d wager Celestia hails from the same school. Her only sin is that she isn’t a part of an adventure themed show and thus can never shine as a powerful, wise, and experienced leader. Though I do think her merchandise is selling well among children, so there’s that.

[Yoshi89 5,293]

A lot of what Celestia does boils down to expecting Twilight and later her friends into doing exactly what she expects them to do. She's a lot smarter than we think she is and Twilight knows that too which is why Celestia's gambles when trusting the Elements of Harmony often pay off.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Yoshi89

[GreyScholar 1,584]

@@Goat-kun,

Sighs... Celestia. Is. Not. A. Troll!

 

She is no more a troll then Pinkie Pie or any other one else with a sense of humor, wish for excitement instead of boredom, and the enjoyment of a good prank. Discord is far more an example of a troll then Celestia could ever be, especially given the more malicious or selfish nature of the majority of trolls.

 

I admit, this is partly because of my more stricter definition of the word and my complete lack of respect for actual trolls.

----------------------

 

Hmm... I admit that I feel comparing her to Gandalf is also somewhat off, as the wizard never had to be a leader of a nation nor has he been a leader for over a 1000 years. Their personalities are also dissimilar, at least in many ways, and their way of doing things are different... so being of the 'same school' is something I disagree with.

[Goat-kun 2,528]

@@Goat-kun,

Sighs... Celestia. Is. Not. A. Troll!

 

She is no more a troll then Pinkie Pie or any other one else with a sense of humor, wish for excitement instead of boredom, and the enjoyment of a good prank. Discord is far more an example of a troll then Celestia could ever be, especially given the more malicious or selfish nature of the majority of trolls.

 

I admit, this is partly because of my more stricter definition of the word and my complete lack of respect for actual trolls.

----------------------

 

Hmm... I admit that I feel comparing her to Gandalf is also somewhat off, as the wizard never had to be a leader of a nation nor has he been a leader for over a 1000 years. Their personalities are also dissimilar, at least in many ways, and their way of doing things are different... so being of the 'same school' is something I disagree with.

Gandalf is not just a mere leader but a Maia of Manwe sent to fend off Sauron (which he was doing for around 2000 years). Along with the likes of Elrond and Galadriel, he had a far greater insight into the affairs of Middle Earth than any other mortal being. Never taking the center stage, he was there to guide others in the fight against great evil they could never truly fathom on their own, and in that he is like Celestia. Of course, Gandalf did hammer down a substantial amount of foes, and he is far more direct at pointing things out than Celestia, but I ascribe that to the difference between Middle Earth and Equestria.

 

I do not believe Celestia is a troll by the most rigid definition, though her actions reveal she is a lively gal who likes to pull a fast one on her subjects. I used trolling in a more loose way that also includes benevolent pranking. Of course, the written definitions tend to only describe trolling as malicious, while communities use it to describe all manners of trickery.

 

The other reason I compared Gandalf’s shenanigans to those of Celestia is to paint a picture where people give Celestia shit while Gandalf gets away with it. Moreover, he gets defeated on many occasions but we still know he’s a powerful wizard. Celestia gets defeated and she’s marked as an incompetent weaksauce.

[Number62 1,258]

You know she has a sister? If not alone then together with her sister and perhaps even Cadance too.

 

 

 

 

 

And Twilight didn't?

 

Again, lets imagine Celestia owns Chrysalis and Tirek. What was the purpose of them then even appearing if she defeats them within minutes?

 

She was willing to banish her own Sister to the moon to save her subjects. Her own fucking sister!

Who by the way, was going to bring the world eternal darkness because ponies didnt appreaciate her night. Wow, attempting to kill the whole world because people dont like the night. Surely Moonbutt would make a better leader.

 

 

 

Man....that poor pony. Can't ever get a brake, always either a Tyrant, a incompetent ruler, a sexual predator, a insane troll or a lovestruck idiot who goes for her worst enemy.

 

The alicorn sisters have huge story potential, and I find Celestia's character is very interesting. My problem is that they've barely done anything with her. Of course she can't immediately beat the big villain when they show up, but it's too bad she just gets pushed out of the story so Twilight can try to fix everything. Isn't being a guardian of Equestria one of the alicorns' job? When was the last time Celestia was able to do that? There's a way to make her useful to the story without letting her solve the problem, but the writers don't seem to realize that yet. Outside of those "epic" stories, what else has she done for the show?

 

I think Celestia's presence and usefulness in the overall show has been highlighted with the most recent episode.

[Mesme Rize 15,685]

The alicorn sisters have huge story potential, and I find Celestia's character is very interesting. My problem is that they've barely done anything with her. Of course she can't immediately beat the big villain when they show up, but it's too bad she just gets pushed out of the story so Twilight can try to fix everything. Isn't being a guardian of Equestria one of the alicorns' job? When was the last time Celestia was able to do that? There's a way to make her useful to the story without letting her solve the problem, but the writers don't seem to realize that yet. Outside of those "epic" stories, what else has she done for the show?

 

I think Celestia's presence and usefulness in the overall show has been highlighted with the most recent episode.

 

Well...Twilight kind of is a main character, while Celestia is a side character.

 

This series is pretty much about Twilights and the mane 6 growing and not about that of Celestia and Luna.

 

It's about Friendship after all.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

@@Goat-kun,

Fair enough, my apologizes. I just... jump the gun in being a bit defensive on Celestia being called a troll or that word being used in connection to her as well as who she is compared to. I admit, it has also been quite some time since I read the Salmarillion or Lord of the Rings so details involving Gandalf is limited. I am still a bit uncertain, as I feel he has some behaviors and has made some decisions I feel Celestia would not do or make.

[Cwanky 17,600]

NotoriousSMALL, on 21 Aug 2015 - 5:31 PM, said:

 

Ponyville shows no signs of being in disrepair or poverty. Even after the parasprites episode everything was repaired.

After every major villain attack the towns still seem to be in good shape, even during the Tirek incident little to no buildings were destroyed. Only one I can remember is twilight's tree house, and it was replaced with a far more expensive castle.

Its actually funny that you mention that. Back in Season 2 we got a very interesting example of Ponyville's financial state:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX1So6cLbTI

 

Even as seemingly inept as Mayor Mare is, I can't see any other reason for her asking Applejack to bring back the money other than to pay for the repairs of Town Hall in The Last Roundup. Could Ponyville's treasury have paid for the repairs to Town Hall? Quite possibly yes, but given the prolonged state of disrepair the building was throughout the episode, it suggests the town is on a tight budget.

 

As for Twilight's Castle, if you actually watched Twilight's Kingdom, Part 2 you would realize it was bestowed by the Tree of Harmony itself. The castle is priceless. Many of the residents of Ponyville were amazed to see it when it came. For the record, just because we don't signs of poverty or disrepair, doesn't mean they don't exist. We don't see death in Ponyville, but its still there, as indicated by the coffin and funeral in Hearts and Hooves Day.

NotoriousSMALL, on 21 Aug 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

 

LOL the citizens are content, there is a high standard of living despite equestria being somewhat medieval. All of her "stupid plans" have WORKED. So by all means that makes her a great ruler.

there are no coups because there is no reason to. Equestria is a great place to live and everyone is happy.

Equestria probably is no doubt a nice and great place to live. But it isn't this G1 or G3 paradise or utopia you're making it out to be. We see that Manehappan is far from a happy polite town and even Canterlot has its own problems with elitism and class warfare for example, something that's reflected on Filthy Rich and in turn Diamond Tiara in Ponyville.

 

The purpose of resolving conflicts like in Over a Barrel, is not to suggest that problems completely go away, but rather that there's a meaningful resolution. Problems still remain just not to the extent theyts g were before and for the younger audience, its good enough. Flim and Flam still remain dangerous and wicked conmen, Griffonstone still has a long way to go fixing itself, and many ponies still have a prejudice against others, even Zecora.

[Mixmaster226 9]

On 8/23/2015 at 12:59 AM, cuteycindyhoney said:

After countless millennia as ruler, Celestia is growing weary. She is guiding Twilight in her emotional growth, hoping against hope that Twilight will prove to be a worthy successor so she can finally step down and leave Equestria in Twilight's capable hooves. It may sound sad, but perhaps she even longs to let her endless life finally draw to a close. She can not do this though, unless she knows that all of the ponies will have a strong leader to protect them. 

 

EDIT>>>>>

 

 

 

I didn't see the comic below until after I made the comment above. This fits exactly what I was trying to say.

 

Wrong. Celestia was never trying to get Twilight to succeed her. That was Faust’s idea and that became obsolete a long time ago. The new writers just dug it out of the trash for the final season.

[cuteycindyhoney 13,309]

1 hour ago, Mixmaster226 said:

Wrong. Celestia was never trying to get Twilight to succeed her. That was Faust’s idea and that became obsolete a long time ago. The new writers just dug it out of the trash for the final season.

What I wrote five years ago sounds pretty right to me. As they say. I NAILED IT!

[Tom Gallagher 33,593]

This may be a better question for @DivineSpirit1000! Divine, time to defend the Sun Goddess! 

[DivineDefender1000 71,372]

8 hours ago, TomDaBombMLP said:

This may be a better question for @DivineSpirit1000! Divine, time to defend the Sun Goddess! 

Oh boy, someone needs a reminder:

Celestia is the most beautiful and amazing pony ever! Her being without Luna was when she was at her “weakest”

1000 years of loneliness and regret for sending her only sister away? How could anyone ever live with that? Celestia did and she was almost at her breaking point!

Celestia is a million times stronger now  because she has Luna back again and Twilight and all her friends!

Celestia AND Luna are stronger together!

You will not insult the Goddess of the Sun! Not her or Luna while I’m here!

[Mixmaster226 9]

11 hours ago, cuteycindyhoney said:

What I wrote five years ago sounds pretty right to me. As they say. I NAILED IT!

You've nailed nothing. The events of season 9 are a combination of coincidence and lack of originality. As I said before. The story progressed to the point where Faust's original idea faded into obsolescence. Season 9 was so bad because they used something that just didn't work anymore. That is why the show's canon must be officially changed and Season 9 rewritten. 

[cuteycindyhoney 13,309]

11 hours ago, Mixmaster226 said:

That is why the show's canon must be officially changed and Season 9 rewritten.

Sorry, but that just sounds silly to me. I was quite happy with season nine, and see no need to change a thing.

How can you say I nailed nothing, when I predicted the end years before it happened? Just because you didn't like it, doesn't mean it didn't end that way. Nobody is going to re-write and re-animate the last season, just because a handful of fans didn't approve.

Edited December 12, 2020 by cuteycindyhoney

[Misty Shadow 7,941]

I can not read this thread without thinking of this. 

Yeah, Joshscorcher refuted a lot of the points made against Celestia's "stupid" decisions. However, if you understandably don't have time for a half an hour long cartoon, the main gist is that if Celestia was not "stupid", she'd make for a boring Deus Ex Machina. It was also revealed later in the show (the animation was based off a story written five years ago) that Celestia was not supposed to be like a god, she was a unicorn who rose to power. She makes mistakes because she's supposed to be like a human.