Why did Luna feel guilty?

[cider float 2,539]

This has bothered me a bit. Luna felt guilty for what she did so she held it in for a while and it manifested as the tantabus within her dreams. Her dreams were somehow orchestrated by her own consciousness to have her always fail as Nightmare Moon. I found her guilt to be a bit unsatisfactory and the reason is she was locked away for 1000 years, that should be enough for her to get over it. But of course not. I mean it's not like Nightmare Moon took over Equestria for 1000 years and wreaked havoc upon the ponies. I mean if she killed some ponies or devastated major areas of the industries in Equestria than I can see her stricken with grief but she didn't do much that hurt the nation yet she has such guilt? Something isn't right with this.

Edited November 6, 2015 by cider float

[Kivil 1,721]

She just believes that she did something really bad when everyone else thinks it wasn't that bad.

[Side Bird 566]

Well, perhaps she did kill or hurt some ponies but we simply just didn't see it. Causing all that fear too, and possibly mixed with that, would most likely cause some guilt.

[Raven Rawne 1,381]

Allow me to provide a possible explanation.

 

Princess Luna, in her opinion, is guilty of letting her own ambition and resentment before the needs of her subjects. For a good ruler, it's enough to make a capital offence. But it didn't stop there, no. She grew so angry about the whole world, the very way it's arranged (that ponies slept through the night instead of admiring it; that they praised both royal sisters, or Celestia, but not her; that they didn't see, nor they appreciated the unique gifts of the night) that she was posessed by a demonic creature witch wreaked havoc (however short lasting and minimal in damage) to everything and everyone she loved, while all she could do was watch (that's how posession works). She saw what happened after she transformed into Nightmare Moon, and she couldn't stop it. She saw her sister cry, and it probably ripped her heart out (and then stuffed it with mashed grapes, roasted it to perfection, and gave her for dinner with a nice Cianti and some fava beans).

And then, she was Banished to the Moon. Now we don't know whenever she (or to be precise, they) was put in stasis, or she was wide awake the whole time. I wish she was in stasis, because a thousand years is a long time to ponder about one's mistakes. Being put on a bus for so long is the main issue here, since she didn't know what happened after that fateful night, and ahe probably assumed the worst.

Once Luna returned to Equestria, and finally was herself again, she was probably terrified how the world will react to her. As far as she was concerned, she was the most evil being her subject could think of, while in reality all was forgiven and forgotten and ponies had a silly holiday to commemorate all that "Nightmare Moon stuff".

If you ever had that paranoid streak that people smile to you only to gossip about you once you turn your back, you'll know how she felt - watching for any hint of resentment, hatred hidden behind big smiles, all that jazz. Plus, she got a hard case of cognitive dissonance, since in her opinion, she did something unforgivable, and too vile to even contemplate, while everypony was like "Yaay new princess!". So, if you see yourself a criminal, and the world has no wish to punish you... you make your own punishment. (I think Luna is one of the "Justice over Mercy" ones)

 

I hope it's enough to see why she didn't really get over it, or suck it up and move on. Some things drag us down years after, and even though everyone sees it as no biggie, for some people it's all that matters.

 

[NezPPTS 36]

I think most of it comes with the betrayal of her sister. Otherwise, I'd say stuff that hasn't been shown on the show due to the demographic.

[Lucky Shot 232]

At the risk of sounding negative, I'm pretty sure Luna's entire Tantabus guilty story was just a woobiefication to pander to the bronies.

 

As for why she would feel guilty? After 1000 years her fury and rage were not reduced at all, and there's the matter that Nightmare Moon wasn't merely a dark lord, she was a traitor.

 

Luna violated most of the Elements of Harmony, the founding principles of all creatures of the light so far as Equestria is concerned. She was probably scared she would regress if she didn't constantly remind herself what she'd suffered.

[Hazy Skies 1,010]

I guess a lot of her actions as Nightmare Moon is shown more in the comics than the show..

She likely feels guilty for losing control.. and feeling bad knowing that she made all those ponies afraid of her..

Fear is one of the things she didn't want to cause..

 

One of the things i heard is that in a particular MLP comic, she learned how to enter the dream of others from the residents that also lived within the moon..

and as she was still evil and in her transformed state.. It's more than likely that she caused nightmares throughout Equestria.. again spreading more fear and suffering..

 

and 1000 years of causing fear and suffering is hard to bare.. I feel sorry for Luna.. at the same time i feel happy for her as she's broken through the darkness that once filled her heart and is now helping her sister to make Equestria a better place.. and for all those who live in it to live in peace.. calm and peaceful, in their dreams thanks to Luna's abilities..

Edited November 6, 2015 by AURAequine

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 42,202]

I think it is because of what she *tried* to do. I mean, think about if she would have succeeded. Ponies would have most likely died from the eternal night. Crops would be screwed, plant life would die off if they are fed by the sun in Equestria and overall ponies would be miserable under her tyrannic rule. Who knows what else should could have done. I do think that Luna was being a bit too harsh to herself but guilt and self blame can be a harsh thing to deal with.

[Singe 2,111]

It always came down to Luna's self-esteem issues.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-esteem

[4april 374]

Didn't she almost kill her own sister? Of course she would feel guilty!

[Dark Qiviut 22,593]

Think about her actions as Nightmare Moon. When she got into a jealous rage, she stopped focusing on the good of Equestria and focused on herself instead. Nightmare Moon is a personification of out-of-control envy and a rage with a complete disregard of the consequences. Thanks to her selfishness, Equestrian lives were threatened.

 

Even though Equestria forgave Luna, it doesn't mean Luna forgave herself. She felt incredibly guilty over the whole thing and hid it because she didn't want to be seen as weak.

 

 

 

At the risk of sounding negative, I'm pretty sure Luna's entire Tantabus guilty story was just a woobiefication to pander to the bronies.

You're factually wrong to call it pandering.

1. DHX writers aren't allowed, by contract, to review fan content and use it as inspiration. If they admit they used fanart and fanfiction for their stories, then those specific fans can sue Hasbro for plagiarism and retrieve monetary compensation.
2. If it was brony pandering, it'd have no basis for the story. Luna's self-guilt and self-harm were central points in the plot.
3. Self-harm is a very real thing that both adults and kids experienced, and it's never covered in family TV.

Lest you have credible evidence to back it up, your guess of it being "woobiefication" is completely baseless.

[Lucky Shot 232]

You're factually wrong to call it pandering.

 

You're clearly not familiar with the writing team's relationship with the fandom, because the show has been pandering to bronies since the end of season 3. Where do you think the term "alicorn" came from? M.A. Larson heard it at a brony convention and subsequently used it.

 

Remember Slice of Life? An entire episode of brony pandering, playing with ideas and even character names developed by the fandom.

 

Yes, overtly referencing specific fan work / characters can and will get them in trouble. That doesn't apply to vague, overreaching concepts such as Luna's character and Lyra's and Bonbon's relationship, and all that it means is that they really should stop obviously doing it.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Lucky Shot

[Dark Qiviut 22,593]

You're clearly not familiar with the writing team's relationship with the fandom, because the show has been pandering to bronies since the end of season 3. Where do you think the term "alicorn" came from? M.A. Larson heard it at a brony convention and subsequently used it.

 

Remember Slice of Life? An entire episode of brony pandering, playing with ideas and even character names developed by the fandom.

 

Yes, overtly referencing specific fan work / characters can and will get them in trouble. That doesn't apply to vague, overreaching concepts such as Luna's character and Lyra's and Bonbon's relationship, and all that it means is that they really should stop obviously doing it.

Correction, you keep using "pandering," but you're not using it correctly.

1. Overarching concepts aren't copyrighted or owned by one person or a whole group of people. DHX is allowed to use them. Ships and fandom names for characters have been used since Day 1 of the show, and they'll continue to be used. Writers can use the general concept, like LyraBon, Octavia's accent, Steven Magnet's name (inspiration from YouTube's broken CC system), Derpy's name, and Derpy the Mailmare's love for muffins (inspiration coming from two season one episodes). They can't use specific fandom content like fanart, fancomics, fanmusic, fandom-created ponysonas (unless there's a very clear reason, like Stellar Eclipse from Trade Ya!), or fanfiction.
2. The fandom used "alicorn" when referring to winged unicorns for reasons I don't know, but there are two-real-life uses:

    

   1. Some past literature referred to them as such.

    

   2. "Winged Unicorn" is one of the definitions of the word.

    

   The fandom made the term popular, but it's not fandom-born.

3. There's a difference between fan pandering and fan service. With the exception of a couple of moments, Slice of Life's brony references aren't pandering. Why? Because they have a purpose in the plot. The moments matter in the story. If they were pandering, then they wouldn't contribute to the plot.
4. Luna's personality doesn't come from brony pandering, neither from Luna Eclipsed or Dream. Back when LE was being developed, the fandom wasn't even a blip on the radar. Her self-guilt doesn't come from pandering, either. Self-harm is a very real thing that people experience, from preteens to older adults. Luna is the perfect vessel, because it makes sense for her to feel beyond guilty and self-harm for her past evil.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[J. Brony 313]

I found her guilt to be a bit unsatisfactory and the reason is she was locked away for 1000 years, that should be enough for her to get over it. 

 

I also felt like her self-incrimination was a little extreme.  To be honest, I'm surprised Luna wasn't harboring a grudge against her sister.  

[Castle Bleck 19,448]

She allowed herself to be used by the Equestrian version of 73H D3V1L.

 

While I refuse to finger-point, I can see where she was coming from.

[Lucky Shot 232]

Correction, you keep using "pandering," but you're not using it correctly.

 

You insult me.

 

The entire show has devolved into nothing but shoehorning in brony-desired characters (Gilda, Coco Pommel, Pinkie's family, Twilight's Canterlot friends, everyone in Slice of Life, Tirek, Smooze, expect Catrina soon), redeeming villains and tormenting anti-heroes whom bronies have boners for doing so (Discord, Gilda, Diamond Tiara, Luna), and very bluntly adopting brony fanon for previously undefined characters (Slice of Life) in a way that is shallow, transparent, and detrimental.

 

That's pandering.

 

With the exception of a couple of moments, Slice of Life's brony references aren't pandering. Why? Because they have a purpose in the plot. The moments matter in the story. If they were pandering, then they wouldn't contribute to the plot.

 

The "plot" of the episode is a completely ordinary wedding that has been accidentally scheduled a day early. Are you trying to tell me that it was somehow important to this wedding...

• ... that "Derpy Hooves" loved muffins?
• ... that Time-Turner was explicitly named with the title "Doctor" and had a British accent, a nonsense demeanor, and a tendency to ramble on about wibbly-wobbly math balls?
• ... that the Big Lebowski ponies appeared again in speaking roles?
• ... that Steven Magnet appears, identified by that name?
• ... that Lyra and Bonbon / Sweetie Drops are confirmed as pretty much a domestic couple?
• ... that Octavia and Vinyl were even in this episode at all, let alone living together in a Ponyville house custom made for both of them, despite their designs, professions, and previous appearances leaning towards Canterlot?

Every single last one of these characterizations is directly from the brony fandom and provides nothing of substance to a plotless episode. That's pandering and every second of that terrible episode was pandering; it was nothing more than switching perspectives from one fanfiction to another. It's the only episode that feels like it was fan-made, not only in its terrible concepts but in its clumsy storyboarding and poor quality as well.

 

The plot of the last three seasons has been garbage, partially because the show has been wasting it chasing after bronies' favorite cute butts in place of something better and more interesting.

 

Coco Pommel in particular had absolutely no reason to return. Her situation in her second episode is completely irrelevant to where she was at the end of her first episode -- any other character could have taken her place with zero effect on the story, including the mare who had left town in the final script. Coco has no personality beyond being cute and slightly repressed, and the only reason she qualified above any other or a new character is because she is a brony waifu.

 

That's pandering no matter what strawmare arguments and awkward wordplays you throw at me.

 

And that pandering is why they made an episode about Luna being a bad anime character. Ever since season 1 the brony fandom has wanted sadsack emo Luna tormenting herself, and that is what they got.

 

The fandom used "alicorn" when referring to winged unicorns for reasons I don't know

 

Fantasy author Piers Anthony originated or at least popularized this use of the term in his 1984 novel Bearing an Hourglass, book 2 of 8 in his Incarnations of Immortality series.

 

I don't know why he did this, unless it was because he couldn't find another short enough word for the concept, and "wingicorn" sounded too childish?

 

Whatever his reasoning, bronies who must be close to 40 years old to even remember that book somehow adopted the term, despite a modern alicorn being absolutely identical to a princess -- there are as yet no pony princesses that are not "alicorns", nor vice versa.

 

And although I would accept that M. A. Larson -- already a very "poetic" writer obsessed with classy literature -- could have lifted this term directly from Anthony's novel, unfortunately I have already been given video proof showing that he took it from a conversation he had at a brony convention.

 

It's always good to receive input from your fans, but when they start running the show, you've screwed up.

 

And FiM has screwed up.

[cider float 2,539]

There's another thing. I mean a lot of bronies think Nightmare Moon and Luna are two different individuals. But I feel that is wrong because otherwise why would Luna feel guilt about what she did which indicates Nightmare Moon is wholly her being ambitious and being completely under her control.

[Castle Bleck 19,448]

There's another thing. I mean a lot of bronies think Nightmare Moon and Luna are two different individuals. But I feel that is wrong because otherwise why would Luna feel guilt about what she did which indicates Nightmare Moon is wholly her being ambitious and being completely under her control.

 

Except the comics confirmed that they are different individuals.

[Silver Stream. 708]

In all honesty, I believe  "Nightmare Moon" and "Princess Luna" are two completely different personas that pretty much shared the same body at one point. I like to think Luna's bitterness and deep resentment towards her sister and the ponies attracted the force itself. The darkness then fed off her negative energy using it as an excuse to take over Equestria and fill it with what it survives in: darkness. 

 

I feel as though Luna felt guilty because she was helpless throughout the entire situation. I can't imagine what it felt like not having FULL control over your body as you attack your sister and try to plunge Equestria into a world of darkness. Notice, that despite her resenting Celestia or more so...resenting being in her shadow...she still had no desires to actually harm Celestia and the kingdom. She only wanted people to admire her and for what she brings. Nightmare Moon uses this as an excuse to attack and control. When she turned back to "Luna" she immediately expresses how sorry she is and how she missed Celestia. My theory was that Luna was already trapped way before being banished to the moon....and to be honest, I feel as though she had already gotten over "her night not being appreciated" because not ONCE does she even acknowledge that issue since being freed. Because nothing has changed....ponies still sleep the night away just like before with the exception of a few celebrations and nighttime workers. Luna didn't to be evil....she didn't want to force the night on everyone...it's possible she got over her issues way before she was freed from the moon but Nightmare pretended to still even care. 

 

Notice, after being Luna again, all her issues focus on what Nightmare Moon had done and her not being able to prevent any of it and her.....attracting it in the first place. It's normal to also blame yourself even if it wasn't entirely your fault. It's super common actually...like someone dying of a car crash, but the parent will forever blame themselves just because they allowed that person to drive to get a gallon of milk? It's silly, but true and can't be helped. And that's the position I put Luna in. She feels responsible, and in a way she is, but she's constantly resenting HERSELF now because of what Nightmare Moon did. To be honest....I found it unacceptable that no one tried to get her proper help the MOMENT she became herself again. She was taken over by a dark force, trapped in the Moon for a thousand of years, and was forced to watch herself hurt ponies when that was never her true desire. Why did they not get that girl some help? I have no idea. So leaned towards punishing herself instead by creating the Tantabus. 

 

 

People keep bashing her as to why she didn't just "get over it" after all this time since her crimes happened over a year ago. But keep in mind, we don't know when the Tantabus was created. She could have created that thing the very same night she became herself again....and she literally relives all of this EVERY NIGHT so the event is still fresh in her mind which is why she was still so f*cked up in "Do Princess Dream of Magic Sheep" 

[El Duderino 881]

Have you ever done something you feel really bad about, but everyone else says it's not a big deal, but you think they are lying to make you feel better, but they are telling the truth because it actually wasn't a big deal, but you still feel bad about it. That sums it up.

[LZRD WZRD 1,929]

This has bothered me a bit. Luna felt guilty for what she did so she held it in for a while and it manifested as the tantabus within her dreams. Her dreams were somehow orchestrated by her own consciousness to have her always fail as Nightmare Moon. I found her guilt to be a bit unsatisfactory and the reason is she was locked away for 1000 years, that should be enough for her to get over it. But of course not. I mean it's not like Nightmare Moon took over Equestria for 1000 years and wreaked havoc upon the ponies. I mean if she killed some ponies or devastated major areas of the industries in Equestria than I can see her stricken with grief but she didn't do much that hurt the nation yet she has such guilt? Something isn't right with this.

This was exactly my problem with that episode. She did nothing to hurt Equestria, so this idea was totally pulled out of a misunderstanding of her backstory.

[Ianpiersonjdavis 514]

Well, Nightmare Moon was created as a manifestation of her negative emotions-her pain of being rejected and her envy of the love and respect her sister gained-while all of her hard work went ignored-it seem like, just like Twilight and Sunset in the films it was still her-but, the darkest parts of her personality taking over-something that obviously terrified her after seeing all of the pain and (ironically) further animosity she caused as a result.

 

Nightmare Moon was shown to not only attempt to take over Equestria, and bring about eternal night, but also tried to kill Celestia-her beloved older sister who she grew up with, ruled with, and fought with for centuries to overthrow similar maniacal tyrants like Discord and Sombra beforehand.

 

One thousand years later, she tries again by hurting and attempting to manipulate others-though, fortunately there was no severe long-term damage in any of that.

 

After she returns to her old self and has her sister forgive her-she discovers that her subjects had become so terrified of Nightmare Moon in her absence that they actively fear her and there is an entire national holiday demonizing her.

 

That seems to me like it would be pretty easy for someone as empathetic as Luna has been shown to be to continue to view themselves as such a demon after all of this despite the forgiveness and kindness she has been shown by others.

[Hazy Skies 1,010]

I found her guilt to be a bit unsatisfactory and the reason is she was locked away for 1000 years, that should be enough for her to get over it.

 

She was still Nightmare Moon and evil then.. She didn't start the shame and regret thing until after the darkness in her heart was gone.. thanks to Twi..

Edited November 7, 2015 by AURAequine