gaming The Original Vault Hunters' popularity

[Steel Accord 6,659]

So I opted to play as Roland, just saying.

 

One thing that has just struck me as odd though is the way Borderlands 2, and and some fans maybe, treated Roland and company. Not that I didn't expect some fanfare for their inclusion and some much needed characterization given to them now that they had a defined place in the world rather than being the Schrodinger's player character, but the game seems to treat them like they were legendary figures.

 

Personally, they're actually my least favorite characters in the series. Not that I dislike them, they just seemed rather bland and stock when compared to the NPCs and enemies they shared a Hell hole with. Even when saddled with the aforementioned Schrodinger's disease, Saxton, Salvador, Maya, and Zer0 all are more interesting and unique characters, at least to me. Hell I like the Pre-Sequel crew better than the original four despite or perhaps because of them all being repurposed boss fights and quest givers!

 

Anypony else share this feeling or want to share way they prefer Brick, Mordecai, Lilith, and Roland?

Edited February 25, 2016 by Steel Accord

[Drunk Not I Am 1,070]

Roland, because infinite ammo. Borderlands 1> all other Borderlands games 

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,301]

For the most part, I don't care much for the original game's playable cast.  Brick is straight-up obnoxious, and Roland would have been rather forgettable had they not pushed him back into the series.  And it was a push.  Perhaps you were expected to have developed enough affection for the original cast to react with glee as they were repeatedly forced into the second game's events.  That being said: Mordecai's all right.  I like the name Mordecai.

[crispy fries 432]

I always played as Brick, and he was pretty boring in the first game. He got more interesting in Borderlands 2.

[The Mint Pone 2,293]

I straight up didn't like B1 but i loved those B1 characters in B2. I hope they give the B2 cast more dialogue in B3 so they have more personality like they did the B1 cast

[Steel Accord 6,659]

For the most part, I don't care much for the original game's playable cast.  Brick is straight-up obnoxious, and Roland would have been rather forgettable had they not pushed him back into the series.  And it was a push.  Perhaps you were expected to have developed enough affection for the original cast to react with glee as they were repeatedly forced into the second game's events.  That being said: Mordecai's all right.  I like the name Mordecai.

 

As I said, I do like the original four but I feel like you have to do more with the characters to really earn that feeling or joyful reunion. Seeing a statues of Aang, Zuko, and Toph in Republic city, that is an earned case of the heroes still being relevant. It would have helped if the O.G. Vault Hunters actually felt like what they did had some emotional investment. Not that defeating Cthulhu in a can isn't impressive and important but there wasn't much indicated that any of them cared or that we knew why they were fighting Atlas beyond pursuit of the Vault. We're told by Marcus different people think there are different things in the Vault. Okay, what did Brick think was in there? What did Lilith?

 

To be fair, just as many of these problems can also be laid at the feet of the two group, but they have the advantage of a nemesis and audience sympathy. Yeah, the elephant in the room, Handsome Jack. Love 'em or hate 'em anybody playing the game knew him and wanted to fight him. The player thus projects that motivation on to the character, and that goal is reinforced as Jack goes from annoying troll to completely unhinged sadist. No such directing will or goal is as apparent in the first game. The Vault is out there but the quest kind of gets overshadowed with the mad cap adventures, which admittedly are what gave the franchise its identity.

I straight up didn't like B1 but i loved those B1 characters in B2. I hope they give the B2 cast more dialogue in B3 so they have more personality like they did the B1 cast

 

They already sort of did that with Tales. Zer0 is just as un-talkative as the first game but just seeing him on an ordinary "day at the office" for an assassin was a treat. Plus:

 

Reese: "You're . . . you're really cool. Just, thought I'd let you know."

 

Zer0: <3

 

Awwwww Zer0 appreciates a fan. See that's characterization and he didn't even say anything. Was also nice to see he actually prefers his swordplay under his own violation as much as preferred it when playing as him.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Steel Accord

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,301]

B ) yeah, the elephant in the room, Handsome Jack. Love 'em or hate 'em anybody playing the game knew him and wanted to fight him. No such directing will or goal is as apparent in the first game.

Bingo.  First game was fun and everything; think I even played Roland (despite my opinion of him as a recurring character).  But Handsome Jack was such a huge [expletive of your choice] that it was easier to attach yourself emotionally to the second game and cast.

[The Mint Pone 2,293]

As I said, I do like the original four but I feel like you have to do more with the characters to really earn that feeling or joyful reunion. Seeing a statues of Aang, Zuko, and Toph in Republic city, that is an earned case of the heroes still being relevant. It would have helped if the O.G. Vault Hunters actually felt like what they did had some emotional investment. Not that defeating Cthulhu in a can isn't impressive and important but there wasn't much indicated that any of them cared or that we knew why they were fighting Atlas beyond pursuit of the Vault. We're told by Marcus different people think there are different things in the Vault. Okay, what did Brick think was in there? What did Lilith?

 

To be fair, just as many of these problems can also be laid at the feet of the two group, but they have the advantage of a nemesis and audience sympathy. But A ) they talk a lot more and react to things and B ) yeah, the elephant in the room, Handsome Jack. Love 'em or hate 'em anybody playing the game knew him and wanted to fight him. No such directing will or goal is as apparent in the first game.

 

They already sort of did that with Tales. Zer0 is just as un-talkative as the first game but just seeing him on an ordinary "day at the office" for an assassin was a treat. Plus:

 

Reese: "You're . . . you're really cool. Just, thought I'd let you know."

 

Zer0: <3

 

Awwwww Zer0 appreciates a fan. See that's characterization and he didn't even say anything.

Not played the Tales games yet but i hear they are crazy funny so i will at some point!

[Steel Accord 6,659]

Bingo.  First game was fun and everything; think I even played Roland (despite my opinion of him as a recurring character).  But Handsome Jack was such a huge [expletive of your choice] that it was easier to attach yourself emotionally to the second game and cast.

 

See above, I expanded a bit but yeah.

 

Again, though, I don't hate the originals. It's just that, "atoning mercenary, sniper with an avian pet, iron fisted bruiser, and magical waif" just seem out of place next to, "bi-sexual divorcee with a turret, roid abusing (maybe cannibal) midget, worshipped by a cult, and a might not even be human who mixes L331 speak in with haiku" not to mention the parade of freaks you fight and fight with.

Not played the Tales games yet but i hear they are crazy funny so i will at some point!

 

It may not be a shooter, but it is Borderlands to be sure.

[Probably Lee 197]

I have a lot of difficulty playing the first one. I find the second game more funny and funner, and I also find the cast of the second one more entertaining. Maybe I would like the first game a lot if I played it first. Like, I get bored of oblivion easily, but if played oblivion before skyrim, I would have probably loved it.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Savage Lee

[Steel Accord 6,659]

I have a lot of difficulty playing the first one. I find the second game more funny and funner, and I also find the cast of the second one more entertaining. Maybe I would like the first game a lot if I played it first. Like, I get bored of oblivion easily, but if played oblivion before skyrim, I would have probably loved it.

 

While I agree, I was more referring to the characters not the game as a whole. Admittedly a lot of the same problems can be applied to either the original vault hunters and the game itself.

[Megas 27,435]

As far as the original vs BL2 goes

 

Roland>>>>>>the commando guy or whatever his name is

I like both Lilith and Maya but I slightly prefer Lilith

Likewise I like both Zer0 and Mordecai but I slightly prefer Zer0

Never really cared for big muscle heads but I found myself liking Salvador

 

So it's 2 and 2 for me. I don't mind the original cast being put on a pedestal in BL2 though

[Steel Accord 6,659]

As far as the original vs BL2 goes

 

Roland>>>>>>the commando guy or whatever his name is

I like both Lilith and Maya but I slightly prefer Lilith

Likewise I like both Zer0 and Mordecai but I slightly prefer Zer0

Never really cared for big muscle heads but I found myself liking Salvador

 

So it's 2 and 2 for me. I don't mind the original cast being put on a pedestal in BL2 though

 

Ah so a mix. Fair enough then.

[Celestial Sloth 369]

It's probably due to the nostalgia factor too, but I preferred Borderlands and its cast because they were voiceless nobodies. It made the world feel that much more vacant and filled with crazies. Combined with ambient music such as this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

...and you feel proper isolated on those treks from point A to B. Didn't think atmosphere was going to be what I took from a Borderlands game but there you go.

 

Plus, No Place for a Hero has got nothing on Ain't No Rest for the Wicked.

[Steel Accord 6,659]

It's probably due to the nostalgia factor too, but I preferred Borderlands and its cast because they were voiceless nobodies. It made the world feel that much more vacant and filled with crazies. Combined with ambient music such as this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

...and you feel proper isolated on those treks from point A to B. Didn't think atmosphere was going to be what I took from a Borderlands game but there you go.

 

Plus, No Place for a Hero has got nothing on Ain't No Rest for the Wicked.

 

The idea that you were the only sane people in a crazy world. By Jove that's actually consistent with all of their characterizations, even by the second game where they are the only ones clear minded enough to actually command some authority beyond "I'll impale you on a cactus stuffed with dynamite if you say no."

 

Me though, that's kind of why they worked less for me. A brief digression, if you'll permit me, I'm terrified of Alice in Wonderland. Not necessarily the Disney movie or the book itself, though the former frightened me as a child but the entire concept. To be the only person of clear mind among company and indeed in an entire world bound only to rules that are completely alien to me; often with the shadow of menace looming over the chaotic proceedings.

 

So to play as Alice, the outsider observing madness from within its midst, is not a character I'm going to lock on to. Instead, I'd rather join in on the "fun" for lack of a better term. Characters that feel more a natural part of the world and equal company to the Appalachian talkin' hick who drinks motor oil and runs his car on moonshine are ones that stick with me and I feel more comfortable assuming the role of because it's just one level of crazy fighting another as opposed to fumbling around grasping for straws of sense where there are none. (Hell this "nativeness" is compounded by Salvador being the only Vault Hunter who's actually born and raised on Pandora.) This is reinforced by the first game's ultimate enemy being a Lovecratian styled Eldritch being. The Vault Hunters investigated and found something on Pandaora that is, itself, unbound by the logic of our universe.

 

See what I mean? The first game is about a treasure hunt following the breadcrumbs of broken sanity and crushed ambition only to find tentacled emptyness at the end. Whereas the second game was an odyssey of freak flag flying fanatics refining their fun while fighting Handsome Jack, a pathological narcissist with delusions of grandeur wishing to impose his particular psychosis over the odd equilibrium of chaos Pandora is.

 

Which . . . I only now realize puts me in an odd position. By playing Borderlands 2, I had, saved Wonderland. Wow . . . how are you supposed to feel when you've ended up protecting something that's caused you terror?

 

The aforementioned atmosphere was also a problem for me in the first game. Again, I appreciate it in some cases but if I'm going to play in a high octane post-apocalypse space western, I prefer a pace and tone more akin to Six String Samurai than Mad Max if you catch my drift.

 

Lastly I respectfully disagree on the song. Not by itself, No Rest for the Wicked is catchy, but as it applies to the game I prefer No Place for a Hero because the title's purpose is two fold. It could be referring to Handsome Jack, who merely thinks himself a hero with constant references to the claim or it could be referring to the Vault Hunters who can indeed turn out to be very heroic individuals depending on player behavior almost like the song is a dare.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Steel Accord

[Guest]

I agree and disagree with points. I played the games extensively and while I LOVE 2, I have to admit that Borderlands 1 has a unique charm to where I feel that 2 and 1 are not even in the same category. 1's humor was more subtle, more simple whereas 2 while it did have really funny moment felt like it was trying too hard to be funny at times but it was enjoyable at least, but it was a completely different kind of humor is all. Everything about 2 felt different and one of the things I loved about 1 was its mystery. So much in 1 was left up to interpretation, mystery and just theory. The player characters I felt were blank slates because it was what moved the story along. It also was more interesting because you could create their story and it made the mystery of why they were there interesting.

 

In 2 when they gave the cast characterization and a role in the world, I didn't see it as bad that they made them legendary icons, I felt it was a reward for our work in Borderlands 1. Remember: WE killed the vault guardian, WE looted all that shit, WE killed Crawmerix, WE got that epic loot, WE used those badass abilities. Those characters were us. So when they achieved this legendary status to the citizens of Sanctuary, it was the game recognizing our accomplishments and I felt great about everything I did in the first game because of that.

 

That being said, the characters of 2 definitely were interesting in their own ways, but a lot of the mystery was gone. That was neither bad nor good though, it was just a different approach.

 

Also the pre-sequel decided to make the characters actually interact with the story, which I think worked well and I hope they go that route again, but ultimately I will always feel that Borderlands 1 is a totally different kind of story than the other games and it was going for a different approach that I felt it hit quite well.

 

 

Yeah, the elephant in the room, Handsome Jack. Love 'em or hate 'em anybody playing the game knew him and wanted to fight him. The player thus projects that motivation on to the character, and that goal is reinforced as Jack goes from annoying troll to completely unhinged sadist.

 

I will admit that Jack's addition was by far one of the best characters ever crafted. Jack is lovable in all the right ways and you hate him in all the right ways. Playing a nonstop motivation to get to him by constantly harassing you in the best possible ways. Does that mean Borderlands 1 isn't as good because it lack Jack? No, because honestly there was no place for such a character in 1's universe because it was more simplistic. Jack has a big ego and his ego declares a world that is big enough to fit it. Jack would have felt out of place in the first game because the world was more contained. Your threat in the first game was more the environment itself rather than the inhabitants. Sure bandits were regular threats, but they paled in comparison to the dangers of Pandora itself. I think that's what they were going for really.

 

 

 

The idea that you were the only sane people in a crazy world. By Jove that's actually consistent with all of their characterizations, even by the second game where they are the only ones clear minded enough to actually command some authority beyond "I'll impale you on a cactus stuffed with dynamite if you say no."  

 

But the thing is: we find out that EVERYONE is more or less to a degree a bit deranged in Borderlands even the original cast. Brick is a cannibal and mass murderer because he thinks killing is fun. Lilith is a little twisted as well as she too enjoys killing, and has strange obsessions. Roland is probably the most sane person on Pandora. Then you consider the cast of 2 which are all clearly a bit unstable, just slightly more stable than the rest of Pandora.

 

Also why is no one talking about the DLC characters? Gaige is arguably the most entertaining playable character in the entire franchise by far. Her backstory is hilarious, they did an excellent marketing campaign with her and she actually has become the representative of Borderlands 2 in terms of marketing now. Gaige is whitty, fun and her insanity matches Pandora so well. She breaks the fourth wall in all the best ways and her dialogue is absolutely charming. Some of my favorites:

 

When Deathtrap gets a kill:

 

"Robot:1. Uglies: 0!"

"Mama is so proud!"

"I need to build you an extra arm, just for hi-fives!"

 

When getting high up on Anarchy stacks:

 

"PLAYER WHAT ARE YOU DOING!?"

"YOU'RE BREAKING THE GAME DUDE!"

"I probably won't hit anything, but whatever."

'When I do hit you, it's going to hurt."

 

And some of her other dialogue:

 

"Well at least he was spared having to smell Sal in person. No offense."

"Noob!"

"Show me green arrows!"

 

Gaige also was super OP and that's wonderful.

 

 

Also can I just say as well: story aside, 2 did a lot to improve gameplay, but they made a ton of bad choices as well. For starters, to compensate for how "OP" the characters in Borderlands 1 were, they made the earlier levels of the characters in 2 less "broken" and the problem is... They didn't do it evenly. Some characters early game are broken as hell, and stay broken the entire game. Others are virtually useless until like level 35. A good example is Zer0. I love him, but his action skill while it can be spammed is arguably useless because it isn't helpful in as many scenarios as say... Gaige's Deathtrap or Maya's phaselock. Deathtrap and Phaselock were pretty much useful no matter what the situation called for, but Deception basically didn't help you unless you lined up a headshot quickly and were in a place where sniping was a good option. Granted deception becomes SUPER MEGA ULTRA USEFUL DOWN THE ROAD, but early game it's virtually worthless compared to the other skills available. The characters in 2 are not nearly as balanced as 1 I always felt. Every character in one (shy of MAYBE Brick if you present the right argument) had abilities that were useful when used together and made them all good choices for soloing the game. 2 though... You generally had an easier time soloing as certain characters than others, ESPECIALLY on your third playthrough or close to the end of the second one because some characters have FAR more useful slagging abilities which becomes crucial at those point. Maya basically has so much slag potential it makes her a MUST HAVE party member for characters without high slag potential.

 

That's the other point where I think 2 dropped the ball: the second and third playthrough. Making it so leveling became impossible past 50 in playthrough 2 was a terrible idea. Because it not only undermined the RPG element near the end of playthrough 2 by forcing you to be a certain level for the rest of the game with little wiggle room, it made getting through the end of the game grueling because you were outmatched unless you had a party.

 

Then by playthrough 3... Playthrough 3 just sucks overall. EVERY ENEMY is a bullet shield. Enemies become such a chore to kill because of how much damage they take and deal. Killing a simple bandit becomes a chore and it requires CONSTANTLY trying to find new equipment every time you level up and just hoping and praying to find legendary loot (which they nerfed the drop rate of) just to complete simple quests. Even with a party you find yourself being incapped so often that it's not even fair. The enemies are not really "challenging" they're just annoying. You find yourself avoiding fights to complete quests to level up faster. I mean I know many will disagree with me here, but playthrough 3 was done so poorly and it's clearly done this way to "extend" the length of the game in a superficial way. Raid bosses that soak up damage are not challenging, they are just grueling. Make the boss an ACTUAL challenge, not just some guy who takes a lot of bullets.

 

Also the DLC handling in 2 was terrible. Tons of micro-DLC and splitting up DLC into different packs was crap. In 1 when you bought the DLC you got the extra leveling that went with it, but in 2 they decided to sell leveling up past 50 as a separate DLC to make more money. To top this off, the Game of the Year edition of the game didn't even include all the DLC or even both the level packs. That was super crappy of them. The DLC all together cost like over $100. At least in 1 they just did 4 DLCs and you got everything with them and then they released a GotY edition that had all of them. It was convenient, simple and cheap.

 

That's why with 2 I wanted after I bought the original game on the PC to buy the Handsome collection on PS4. I wasn't about to buy all those DLCs like that.

 

If they make Borderlands 3, I hope they will address these problems because I liked the idea of a third playthrough, but only if it's actually fun.

[Steel Accord 6,659]

 

 

But the thing is: we find out that EVERYONE is more or less to a degree a bit deranged in Borderlands even the original cast. Brick is a cannibal and mass murderer because he thinks killing is fun. Lilith is a little twisted as well as she too enjoys killing, and has strange obsessions. Roland is probably the most sane person on Pandora.

 

Should have said "on par, sane." 

[Celestial Sloth 369]

God, stop it guys, I've got stuff to do and now I have to play Borderlands 1+2 again.

 

As a long-time Mordecai, I don't look forward to what happens to Bloodwing.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,159]

Few ways to answer this: The original cast was a tad bland most likely because it was the first game in the series. There were quite a few things that weren't as fleshed out as they could be. As for their legendary status, they were the vault hunters that actually opened the vault. That is a pretty big deal in that universe. 

 

For the record, I think 1 is better than the other games. The other games really try too hard to be funny and it is at a near constant rate. The first game has a sort of chilled out vibe to it that I love.

[Steel Accord 6,659]

 

 

For the record, I think 1 is better than the other games. The other games really try too hard to be funny and it is at a near constant rate. The first game has a sort of chilled out vibe to it that I love.

 

Disagree but different strokes for different folks. 

[GreySentinel 157]

Nice, a Borderlands thread!

 

Honestly, I feel that the accomplishments of the first vault hunters are nearly as significant as the second. Comparing the Destroyer vs the Warrior, I'd say the latter was more dangerous than the former. The Destroyer was completely stationary; lore-wise, Mordecai could have sniped the ugly thing at a safe distance, unharmed.

 

From a biased standpoint, my favorite cast is from Borderlands 2, with my favorite being Krieg. It's a shame the developers didn't give more backstory on him; his inner voice and outer voice conflict was the most interesting to me. I also really liked a metaphor that I read about his concept: a driver controlling an accelerating truck without brakes, maneuvering the truck to avoid as many innocent people as possible. 

 

Also, one thing I never understood in the Pre-Sequel, was Handsome Jack's descent into a villain. It just happened out of nowhere, in my opinion.