(Possible S6 spoilers) Natural-born Alicorns make me uncomfortable

[Guest]

It's not that I don't care. We're just having a discussion about baby alicorns. I put in my input. I just meant I don't want this to get into some big internet fandom fight (which you and I seem to agree on).

 

In all honesty, I feel like this is a discussion worth having (baby alicorns, I mean). And I believe it can be discussed without creating too much tension.

 

Having a discussion about alicorns =/= drama. :/

I didn't say it was drama, but really what is there to discuss? You're either overreacting and over-analyzing a kid's show or your aren't. *Shrug*

[PacificGreen 1,163]

I didn't say it was drama, but really what is there to discuss? You're either overreacting and over-analyzing a kid's show or your aren't. *Shrug*

 

Well, at what point does "analysis" become "over-analysis"? I guess when we talk about racism, because, honestly, I don't get any of that from the announcement of Flurry Heart. But while I don't agree with the racism charge, I don't think people expressing their concerns is necessarily over-analysis.

 

For me, it just seems to be something that comes out of left field. We already know that (assuming the books are canon are at least accurate), aside from Celestia and Luna, a pony must perform some great magical task to become an alicorn, as Twi and Cadence did. At first I wasn't sure what to think about FH's inclusion, or where the show writers were trying to go with her. But hey, we don't know everything about alicorns, so I'm hoping we get a good in-universe explanation for why she's an alicorn- even "alicorn genes can pass down from the mother" will probably do it for me, even if it seems a little weak. I even hypothesized that FH's intro episode would go a little into Celestia and Luna's backstory (unlikely, but one can dream).

 

Kyoshi's first post seems to echo my sentiments. I, too, am willing to give Flurry Heart's story a chance and have faith in the writers to give us something good. That said, she still kinda creeps me out with her uber-adorableness.

Edited February 29, 2016 by PGNatsu

[Megas 27,834]

If you look at a candy-coated magical baby horse and the first thing that comes to your head is racism that's usually a good sign that your looking too much into something that was never there in the first place

[PacificGreen 1,163]

I will kinda agree with the whole "born alicorns remove some of the uniqueness of alicornhood attainment" notion, though. Does this mean alicorn is just another race along with earth, pegasus, and unicorn? If so, why don't we talk about "the four pony races"? And why haven't we seen more alicorns in the series?

 

Eh, maybe I'm just irrationally worried Flurry Heart will turn out to not be a Mary Sue/otherwise poorly-written character. If so, I hope I'm proven wrong. She is just a baby, after all, so I guess it would be unfair to hold that against her. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I'm just hoping it's not hand-waved.

Edited February 29, 2016 by PGNatsu

[cuteycindyhoney 13,316]

Am I the only one who doesn't need an explanation for any of this because I genuinely do not care because the show is about cartoon horses and cartoon horse antics and so long as I get cartoon horse antics, I don't care. No one questions why Spongebob can have fire underwater and they even make jokes about it, but when it comes to MLP we all need an explanation of how a baby born could have both wings AND a horn like it's some illogical thing that we have real science behind debunking it.

Bravo! Thank you very much! Much as I love the show, it's always good to keep in mind that it's just light entertainment.  I do think that the new royal baby will be a solid hit with young girls.

Edited February 29, 2016 by cuteycindyhoney

[geartree 33]

Am I the only one who doesn't need an explanation for any of this because I genuinely do not care because the show is about cartoon horses and cartoon horse antics and so long as I get cartoon horse antics, I don't care. No one questions why Spongebob can have fire underwater and they even make jokes about it, but when it comes to MLP we all need an explanation of how a baby born could have both wings AND a horn like it's some illogical thing that we have real science behind debunking it.

I agree. I think we should focus more on if the episodes with these characters/events are good, instead on focusing if the characters make sense or not. The show has some back story in it, but for the most part the show is filled with random jokes for a reason, it's supposed to be light hearted and fun.

It's possibly racist because one race is NATURALLY stronger than others.

 

If all Alicorns had to earn their transformation, it's not racist because their power is the reward for their hard work and great deeds.

 

With Flurry Heart, her power is just the result of her genes. She is better than everyone else simply due to being from the right bloodline.

 

 

You may have misunderstood my point. It's not about natural-born Alicorns being unrealistic, it's about the unfortunate implications of racism that they bring.

 

This is not racism. Racism is what the name implies, the belief that one race is greater than another. How can a baby be racist just because she was born with better traits. Thats like saying Einstien was elitist because his brain had literally more capacity to reason as he did. Or that white people are racist against asians because they have less people with lactose intolerance than Asians. People here seem to have a very distorted view on what racism really is.

Edited February 29, 2016 by geartree

[PacificGreen 1,163]

I agree. I think we should focus more on if the episodes with these characters/events are good, instead on focusing if the characters make sense or not. The show has some back story in it, but for the most part the show is filled with random jokes for a reason, it's supposed to be light hearted and fun.

This is not racism. Racism is what the name implies, the belief that one race is greater than another. How can a baby be racist just because she was born with better traits. Thats like saying Einstien was elitist because his brain had literally more capacity to reason as he did. Or that white people are racist against asians because they have less people with lactose intolerance than Asians. People here seem to have a very distorted view on what racism really is.

While MLP does have a lot of jokes, I don't think we can ignore the fact that it already has a well established universe with (some amount of) consistency regarding how things work. I knew Flurry Heart being an alicorn technically does not contradict any canon so far, but I'm kinda wary of things like this being hand-waved.

[Manman20x6 359]

I just realized that might have been sounding like a Social Justice Warrior or something stupid like that during this topic.

 

That is not the case, this isn't a huge deal for me and I will probably keep watching the show like before (unless they screw up phenomenally with Flurry Heart). I just wanted to point out the potential implications of having a race that is intrinsically superior to the others.

 

Racism is what the name implies, the belief that one race is greater than another.

 

Alicorns ARE greater than the other races. Which is why it feels kinda racist on the parts of the writers to introduce such a race in the first place. And I'm not saying that the writers are racist or bigoted for adding Flurry Heart, just that it has the potential to be interpreted this way.

 

Flurry Heart herself, as a character, probably does not hold racist beliefs. But her inclusion has unfortunate implications for the status of the other races, who are objectively weaker simply due to the circumstances of their birth.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,699]

Honestly I think the show staff already are of the view that alicorns are incredibly important and that another alicorn is something that deserves attention: twilight and the others gasp in shock when flurry hearts is shown to be an alicorn after all.


So I think we can all rest assured that there's going to be some DEFINITE focus on explaining flurry heart's place in the world in the upcoming episode, I don't think we need to worry about alicorns being treated as more mundane due to flurry heart; probably the opposite actually since the scene seems designed to hammer home "this is NOT just a normal pony, her being an alicorn IS special, and its not going to just be ignored"

[SBaby 660]

Her mother is an Alicorn.  Her father is a Unicorn. 

 

That means there's at least a 50/50 chance she is born an Alicorn.  It's basic genetics.  I'm not really sure what they were expecting here.

 

I think that once again some people are simply overreacting.  What would be funny is if the reaction of the mane six turns out to actually be a parody of how the fanbase always overreacts to things.

[Manman20x6 359]

I just thought of a new inconsistency that natural Alicorns may cause.

 

The show makes a point that the harmony between the three races is important. This was a central plot point in the Heart's Warming Eve episode, and I think there may have been other episodes about this.

 

Natural Alicorns tip this balance. So apparently, Earth, Pegasus, and Unicorn ponies are all important, but not as important as the Alicorns who have all of their powers combined!

 

(And I repeat, this is not as big of a deal for me as it may seem. Don't think of me as a Social Justice Warrior.)

[MLPFanatic34 3,235]

So does this mean that when Princess Flurry Heart grows up her mane and tail will be flowing like Celestia's and Luna's?

[Unlikeable Pony 2,699]

So does this mean that when Princess Flurry Heart grows up her mane and tail will be flowing like Celestia's and Luna's?

We still don't have SSJ alicorn manes for twilight and cadence yet though. (thought my headcanon is that luna and celestia only have those manes due to connecting themselves to the moon and the sun)

[cider float 2,539]

I just thought of a new inconsistency that natural Alicorns may cause.

 

The show makes a point that the harmony between the three races is important. This was a central plot point in the Heart's Warming Eve episode, and I think there may have been other episodes about this.

 

Natural Alicorns tip this balance. So apparently, Earth, Pegasus, and Unicorn ponies are all important, but not as important as the Alicorns who have all of their powers combined!

 

(And I repeat, this is not as big of a deal for me as it may seem. Don't think of me as a Social Justice Warrior.)

Very well said. The point of the three different ponies like in the Hearth Warming Eve was to show that one was not better than others and they must cast aside foolish social hierarchies based on one's race.

 

Let's also not forget the CMC that has all three pony types together. Alicorns are more or less toys popular to little girls so they make more to boost sales.

Edited March 1, 2016 by cider float

[geartree 33]

I just realized that might have been sounding like a Social Justice Warrior or something stupid like that during this topic.

 

That is not the case, this isn't a huge deal for me and I will probably keep watching the show like before (unless they screw up phenomenally with Flurry Heart). I just wanted to point out the potential implications of having a race that is intrinsically superior to the others.

 

 

Alicorns ARE greater than the other races. Which is why it feels kinda racist on the parts of the writers to introduce such a race in the first place. And I'm not saying that the writers are racist or bigoted for adding Flurry Heart, just that it has the potential to be interpreted this way.

 

Flurry Heart herself, as a character, probably does not hold racist beliefs. But her inclusion has unfortunate implications for the status of the other races, who are objectively weaker simply due to the circumstances of their birth.

Wow. You literally quote mine what I said. Look at that quote in the context of what I said.

 

To say it is racist is silly. That's like saying Tolkien is racist because Elves are not evil like orcs. It's a fabtast world, not all races are equal in terms of inherited abilities.

So does this mean that when Princess Flurry Heart grows up her mane and tail will be flowing like Celestia's and Luna's?

I don't know. I always thought it flowed like that to repersent the light that emits from the moon or sun. Who knows.

Edited March 1, 2016 by geartree

[Manman20x6 359]

Wow. You literally quote mine what I said. Look at that quote in the context of what I said.

 

To say it is racist is silly. That's like saying Tolkien is racist because Elves are not evil like orcs. It's a fabtast world, not all races are equal in terms of inherited abilities.

 

On second reading, I think I may have misread your post. Sorry about that.

 

As for the other point you're making, I said in another post that MLP places a great importance on the harmony between races, who are all supposed to be equals. Adding an objectively stronger race shakes up this balance.

[SBaby 660]

On second reading, I think I may have misread your post. Sorry about that.

 

As for the other point you're making, I said in another post that MLP places a great importance on the harmony between races, who are all supposed to be equals. Adding an objectively stronger race shakes up this balance.

 

 

 

I just thought of a new inconsistency that natural Alicorns may cause.

 

The show makes a point that the harmony between the three races is important. This was a central plot point in the Heart's Warming Eve episode, and I think there may have been other episodes about this.

 

Natural Alicorns tip this balance. So apparently, Earth, Pegasus, and Unicorn ponies are all important, but not as important as the Alicorns who have all of their powers combined!

 

(And I repeat, this is not as big of a deal for me as it may seem. Don't think of me as a Social Justice Warrior.)

 

You're all forgetting one minor little somewhat unimportant factoid.

 

Alicorns have been in the show since the first episode!

 

Simply having a new one isn't going to make a difference in the 'harmony dynamic' that people keep going on about, because it really wasn't ever there.

 

Seriously, this entire topic is yet another example of people overreacting, just like they did when Twilight turned into an Alicorn.  Remember when that was going to be the end of the show as we know it, but it wasn't?

 

Here's what is going to happen.  Flurry Heart is going to be introduced.  They'll have an episode or two about her, and that's it.  This is what the show has always done.  Maybe she makes an appearance later on.  But nothing world-shattering is really going to come from it.  People need to relax and wait until the episodes come out before passing judgement on them.

 

 

Now if it the 'other thing' about the Crystal Empire turns out to be true, then everyone can start worrying.  I will personally accept everyone freaking out if that happens.

Edited March 1, 2016 by SBaby

[darkshy 68]

The title of princess and alicorn have two different meanings. A pony born into royalty does not necessarily deserve the title but still is a prince or princess because it's their birthright  (clearly seen with Prince Blueblood and King Sombra.) Not to mention non-canon royalty such as Princess Amore and Princess Platinum. 

 

An alicorn has achieved this right of being an 'all rounder pony' in the case of Twilight and even Cadence. They are also given the title as princess because they have proven to be fit to rule and have a important purpose such as the 'princess of friendship' or 'princess of love.' 

 

Twilight could not have become a princess with just being a unicorn because she was not born into royalty. Baby Flurry Heart hasn't really done anything to earn the title of alicorn and therefore should just be a princess as of right now.

 

Although I wouldn't object to her later becoming an alicorn if she truly deserved it. It's a little too premature to judge tho, lets just hope the producers have a legitimate/strong reason as to WHY she was born as an alicorn.

[Metemponychosis 1,262]

 

 

Now if it the 'other thing' about the Crystal Empire turns out to be true, then everyone can start worrying.  I will personally accept everyone freaking out if that happens.

 I guess I missed this one. What are you talking about?

[Manman20x6 359]

 

You're all forgetting one minor little somewhat unimportant factoid.

 

Alicorns have been in the show since the first episode!

 

Simply having a new one isn't going to make a difference in the 'harmony dynamic' that people keep going on about, because it really wasn't ever there.

 

Seriously, this entire topic is yet another example of people overreacting, just like they did when Twilight turned into an Alicorn.  Remember when that was going to be the end of the show as we know it, but it wasn't?

 

Here's what is going to happen.  Flurry Heart is going to be introduced.  They'll have an episode or two about her, and that's it.  This is what the show has always done.  Maybe she makes an appearance later on.  But nothing world-shattering is really going to come from it.  People need to relax and wait until the episodes come out before passing judgement on them.

 

It's never been proven that Celestia and Luna are natural-born Alicorns. If their power is something that is earned through deeds rather than birthright, it doesn't imbalance the race, since that would mean they aren't really a race of their own, but more like a transformation that happens to a pony who deserves it.

 

If it IS a race that one can be born in, it means that some ponies intrinsically have what everyone else can only get through great effort.

[SBaby 660]

 

 

It's never been proven that Celestia and Luna are natural-born Alicorns. If their power is something that is earned through deeds rather than birthright, it doesn't imbalance the race, since that would mean they aren't really a race of their own, but more like a transformation that happens to a pony who deserves it.

 

If it IS a race that one can be born in, it means that some ponies intrinsically have what everyone else can only get through great effort.

 

First, who said anything about Celestia and Luna being naturally born?  I mean, yeah, they probably were, but nothing in the series has addressed that (and they certainly don't talk much about the pre-NMM era).

 

That's one way of looking at it.  Another way is that there might be fundamental aspects of Alicorns that nobody knows anything about.  When they 'earn' this status, it's likely that their entire genetic structure changes to adapt to the new body.  As such, the genes necessary for conception could also be altered as such.  Or it could be that these genes exist in every pony, and just remain dormant unless specific circumstances activate them.  It could be that certain circumstances activated the genes in Flurry Heart before she was born.  

 

 

 

 I guess I missed this one. What are you talking about?

 

Look very carefully at the Crystal Empire's castle.  That is all I will say, because as I said before, it depends on if it's true or not.

Edited March 3, 2016 by SBaby

[Metemponychosis 1,262]

 

 

Look very carefully at the Crystal Empire's castle.  That is all I will say, because as I said before, it depends on if it's true or not.

  I'm totally missing the point. Do you mean the castle in an specific image? Or something that's been out recently?

[Kapitan zur See Hans (Daz) 883]

Racism, seriously? Hell yes there is superiority and it is not racism(In the common usage of today's society), even in real life. I mean it isn't like creatures don't adapt to their environments over long periods of time, skin color isn't there to make us interesting(Okay that sounded bad, rephrase: Skin color provides advantages in certain environments). Anyway let's set aside with the whole humanity aspect, there is most definitely superiority and being born with superior genes is not racism. Let's take for example dogs, would you consider a shih tzu to be superior to a German Shepard when it comes to physical power(Or in any category for that matter)? Most certainly not, being superior/inferior is a reality, we humans don't really have to deal with true superiority though, small adaptations yet nothing that really makes us superior to others overall. Just because you don't like the thought of superiority doesn't make it a social construct only.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Commissar Twilight

[WriteCodes46 178]

Mike Vogel, the guy at Hasbro who approves or rejects episodes (up until half of Season 6), and thus read all the scripts, recently confirmed in an interview that the premiere deals directly with the fact that Flurry Heart is an alicorn. So, this subject will definitely be addressed in the show.

[Moon Sugar 532]

We have seen other alicorns alluded to in the past. In the hearts and hooves day episode, the pony in the book who was under the love curse was an Alicorn. 

 

I wonder as well as how they are going to handle this.