MLP wasn't always a girls' show even before FIM

[TheAnimatorOfficial 567]

The 80s one is far from it. Similar to FIM, the characters had (fairly) interesting personalities and a healthy abundance of cool characters and badass villains. And I'm pretty sure cannibalism isn't something distinctly for little girls...

 

Point is FIM isn't really the first to go against the girls' show stereotype.

[Leave a Whisper 703]

Oh it is for girls, but too many people automatically assume that girls shows equal sugar and spice and everything nice and are automatically safe and dull.

 

They forget that girls like adventure, danger, excitement and strong female leads and have had media like that way before FiM.

 

Anyone who talks shits about MLP and Friends being cutesy and full of tea parties without ever having seen it, doesn't realize that it's a high fantasy adventure with a few relaxed episodes sprinkled in between.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Leave a Whisper

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 42,205]

Oh it is for girls, but too many people automatically assume that girls shows equal sugar and spice and everything nice and are automatically safe and dull.

 

They forget that girls like adventure, danger, excitement and strong female leads and have had media like that way before FiM.

 

Anyone who talks shits about MLP and Friends being cutesy and full of tea parties without ever having seen it, doesn't realize that it's a high fantasy adventure with a few relaxed episodes sprinkled in between.

I keep seeing this everywhere. Everyone in this fandom these days keeps saying this show is strictly for girls, or the show has a different 'target audience' than us. What even qualifies for this at all? What makes it so? Just because the show stars mostly female characters doesn't mean it is a show for girls specifically. Now, maybe the creators originally wanted it to be 'for girls', following a tired lciche in media, but considering how much it has clicked with bronies, I think they failed in that original vision.

[Leave a Whisper 703]

I keep seeing this everywhere. Everyone in this fandom these days keeps saying this show is strictly for girls, or the show has a different 'target audience' than us. What even qualifies for this at all? What makes it so? Just because the show stars mostly female characters doesn't mean it is a show for girls specifically. Now, maybe the creators originally wanted it to be 'for girls', following a tired lciche in media, but considering how much it has clicked with bronies, I think they failed in that original vision.[/quote

 

 

I hear this kind of misconception frequently. It's gen elitism on your part and a refusal to see what's in front of your nose.

 

 

You missed our point completely.

 

We're talking about My Little Pony and Friends first off.

 

Second, we're talking about how girl's media does not automatically mean Safe, Dull and patronizingly Brain-dead.

 

MLP is a girl's franchise All The Way Through. Do guys enjoy it? Yes. Is there anything wrong with that? No.

 

Hasbro has decided which of there franchises belong in which isle. Go onto Hasbro.com or Toys r Us and you'll see MLP under Girl's Toys and their other big bread winner, Transformers, under Boys Toys

 

Go to any regular store that sells toys and you'll MLP with the likes of Barbies, Monster High dolls and Shopkins.

 

Transformers is tossed in with the likes of TMNT, army toys and Comic book characters.

 

Transformers is a boys franchise All The Way Through and yet plenty of chicks are big fans and nothing wrong with that.

 

All without making themselves Self Important.

 

Furthermore there are quite a few guys who do like the older generations.

 

But you can't claim that G1 is Brain-dead, patronizing and dull when nearly every episode has them squaring off against witches and sentient, magical ooze and lava demons and monsters and ogres.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Leave a Whisper

[Moony the Cat 3,707]

Oh it is for girls, but too many people automatically assume that girls shows equal sugar and spice and everything nice and are automatically safe and dull.

 

They forget that girls like adventure, danger, excitement and strong female leads and have had media like that way before FiM.

Um...thats kinda contradicting i think.

You say, the Show is for Girls but People forget, that this Show also has a lot in common with other Shows, like Danger, Excitement and other things.

Wouldnt that mean, that the Show is similar to Boy Shows?

What makes the Show girly then? 

I remember that all Kids Shows i watched had Animals in it. There wasnt really a difference.

Okay, there was Shows like Action man, but my Sister watched that too.

[Leave a Whisper 703]

Um...thats kinda contradicting i think.

You say, the Show is for Girls but People forget, that this Show also has a lot in common with other Shows, like Danger, Excitement and other things.

Wouldnt that mean, that the Show is similar to Boy Shows?

What makes the Show girly then?

I remember that all Kids Shows i watched had Animals in it. There wasnt really a difference.

Okay, there was Shows like Action man, but my Sister watched that too.

No your proving to be narrow minded friend, by thinking that Girl's Media can Never Ever have Danger or Adventure.

 

So only boys are allowed to have these things? I know otherwise and so do all the little girls who grew up enjoying things like She-Ra, Jem, Powerpuff Girls and Sailor Moon.

 

It's not my fault that you refuse to see that MLP and Friends was the first in this girl's franchise to embrace an adventurous spirit.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Leave a Whisper

[Moony the Cat 3,707]

No your proving to be narrow minded friend, by thinking that Girl's Media can Never Ever have Danger or Adventure.

 

So only boys are allowed to have these things? I know otherwise and so do all the little girls who grew up enjoying things like She-Ra, Jem, Powerpuff Girls and Sailor Moon!

What?

I said that Girl Shows are similar to Boy Shows and are mostly the same, based on what you said earlier.

Thats why i asked, what makes Mlp Girly then, if the Shows share so much similarities?

 

I was actually trying to say, that the term " Girl Show " and " Boy Show " are kinda useless, since for me, most of these Shows were the same anyway.

I mean, i watched Barbie as a Kid, without even caring, for me Kids Stuff was Kids Stuff.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Lex Destrosio

[Leave a Whisper 703]

What?

I said that Girl Shows are similar to Boy Shows and are mostly the same, based on what you said earlier.

Thats why i asked, what makes Mlp Girly, if the Shows share so much similarities.

 

I was actually trying to say, that the term " Girl Show " and " Boy Show " are kinda useless, since for me, most of these Shows were the same anyway.

I mean, i watched Barbie as a Kid, without even caring, for me Kid's Stuff was Kids Stuff.

And I'm saying I'm not being contradictory in the fact that Girls like these things and that Hasbro has long since decided that MLP is a girl's franchise.

 

Take it up with Hasbro if you have an issue.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Leave a Whisper

[Moony the Cat 3,707]

And I'm saying I'm not being contradictory in the fact that Girls like these things and that Hasbro has long since decided that MLP is a girl's franchise.

 

Take it up with Hasbro if you have an issue.

 

You said, the Show is for Girls.

Then you said, the Show has still similarities to other Shows.

Then i asked : What makes the Show girly then, if Boys and Girls Shows are similar?

 

And yes i know, that it is mostly aimed at Girls, according to Hasbro.

But apart from that, i dont see what the difference is.

 

How am i narrow minded, when i basically say, that there is no clear difference between Girls and Boy Shows?

I simply said, that they are basically the same and there is no Gender specific Series out there for me, because i watched pretty much everything as a kid ( and kinda still do as an adult as well ) and saw no clear difference.

But okay. I go to Hasbro and complain about it, sure. XD

[Leave a Whisper 703]

You said, the Show is for Girls.

Then you said, the Show has still similarities to other Shows.

Then i asked : What makes the Show girly then, if Boys and Girls Shows are similar?

 

And yes i know, that it is mostly aimed at Girls, according to Hasbro.

But apart from that, i dont see what the difference is.

 

How am i narrow minded, when i basically say, that there is no clear difference between Girls and Boy Shows?

I simply said, that they are basically the same and there is no Gender specific Series out there for me, because i watched pretty much everything as a kid ( and kinda still do as an adult as well ) and saw no clear difference.

But okay. I go to Hasbro and complain about it, sure. XD

I'll help you complain about it. We'll sneak over and tp their office building or something.

 

 

My apologies I thought you said that MLP and Friends was a girl's cliche. That was the poster above me.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Leave a Whisper

[Jeric 46,890]

The argument being made here has it's own brand of revisionism. It also lacks a critical thinking component.

 

FiM did break the mold. They did it in the right way though. FiM did more than add monsters ... they added three dimensional female characters so well developed even their own staff forget one of them was even a girl. One of Faust's goals was to elevate the show beyond the traditional crap that is normally fed to girls.

 

Suggesting that 'add monsters = boys' and calling that some amazing strategy, or the television equivalent to a YouTube first comment ... you're missing the point.

 

BTW there was already a girls show that did a better job of elevating the narrative in girls programming than FiM ... and they did it through characters and progression. Jem.

 

Finally, neither G1 or Jem really sucked in the male fans like FiM has. You are kinda looking at it the wrong way anyway. FiM hit at the time that one thing was different from its predecessors ... the audience psychology. So yes ... that still makes the male fandom kinda a big deal.

[Moony the Cat 3,707]

FiM did break the mold. 

 

I thought Powerpuff Girls was the first, Girly looking Show, that actually was completely different from everyones expectations, or was it not? 

[Thrond 3,272]

Sure it's a girls' show. That's their target audience. Gender marketing is largely monsense, but MLP is totally a girls' show. Can't speak for the 80s cartoon, but FiM is plenty girly. What's wrong with that?

[Dark Qiviut 22,617]

 

 

Oh it is for girls

 

 

MLP is a girl's franchise All The Way Through.

That's factually incorrect. Back when MLP was first founded, it was a completely unisex franchise, albeit for a preschool age. Bonnie Zacherle explicitly stated at least twice, one of them a few years ago when asked about the brony phenomenon. FIM's show returned the franchise back to its family-friendly roots; unfortunately, the toyline outside of GoH is still a bunch of sexist schlock.

[Jeric 46,890]

I thought Powerpuff Girls was the first, Girly looking Show, that actually was completely different from everyones expectations, or was it not? 

 

It was not the first either, but the broke the mold snippet you quoted was specific to audience and perception. PPG took took a genre typically marketed to males and turned it on its head. That wasn't what I was talking about. That angle is only a stones throw from "adding dragons = boys." Again, good show ... but not the same thing as what happened with FiM. 

 

I'll make it clearer. FiM's audience broke the mold ... helped by a more (but not complete) neutral take on traditional gender roles and stereotypes.

 

---

 

 

 

 

Sure it's a girls' show. That's their target audience. Gender marketing is largely monsense, but MLP is totally a girls' show. Can't speak for the 80s cartoon, but FiM is plenty girly. What's wrong with that?

 

The official target audience was children and their caregivers. This was one time that the the show creator's and the toy manufacture's goals lined up. You see, the manufacturers know that kids don't have the disposable income to but product. The caretakers are the gatekeepers in this regard. You get them to enjoy the show ... you win their dollar more often. Simultaneously Faust and co. wanted to make great TV, and parents and guardians were in the forefront of their mind, and they included elements that would get a smile out of them too. Ever seen an adult non fan at a convention hotel and mention that you are there for FiM? I have a few times, and hearing "Oh yeah, I watch that with my kid" is common. 

 

The surprise was the teenagers and childless adults that gravitated to the show in rapidly increasing numbers. 

[Thrond 3,272]

The official target audience was children and their caregivers. This was one time that the the show creator's and the toy manufacture's goals lined up. You see, the manufacturers know that kids don't have the disposable income to but product. The caretakers are the gatekeepers in this regard. You get them to enjoy the show ... you win their dollar more often. Simultaneously Faust and co. wanted to make great TV, and parents and guardians were in the forefront of their mind, and they included elements that would get a smile out of them too. Ever seen an adult non fan at a convention hotel and mention that you are there for FiM? I have a few times, and hearing "Oh yeah, I watch that with my kid" is common. 

 

The surprise was the teenagers and childless adults that gravitated to the show in rapidly increasing numbers. 

Does that necessarily make it less "girly"? 

[Jeric 46,890]

 

 

Does that necessarily make it less "girly"? 

 

No, but neither is a kid running around with a Nerf gun shooting me while ducking around corners. I kinda raised two girls.

[Thrond 3,272]

No, but neither is a kid running around with a Nerf gun shooting me while ducking around corners. I kinda raised two girls.

I just find all these efforts to deny MLP being a "girls' show" to be awfully silly. I mean, if it is, then there's nothing wrong with that; it's still good either way. 

[Jeric 46,890]

I just find all these efforts to deny MLP being a "girls' show" to be awfully silly. I mean, if it is, then there's nothing wrong with that; it's still good either way.

While I tend to only give authorial intent a cursory acknowledgment in non-collaborative projects ... I lend it more weight when multiple minds all create a product. As in all art, you've answered the first question - "what do I think?" Now comes the the follow-up that some may forget to ask, namely "what does that say about me?".

[Mentis Soliloquy 3,029]

Well it is a girl show the current generation...

 

Like the Platypus I smell a conspiracy!

(I mean what's with a the guys here? Why am I here?...oh pretty pony...Runs off after a pony.)

 

 

But yeah it's meant for girls but it's so well written, (still is in my opinion) that it's surpassed it's original target audience and attracted older women and guys (plus the inbetweens) though I've not seen the older generations the current one is moving towards a more adult concepts and ideas it's great in my humble opinion.

[AlbaTross 1,586]

Well, I grew up with shows like Sailor Moon and Powerpuff Girls that were known as going above and beyond what was expected of a girl's show, and I also enjoyed shows like Cardcaptors and Totally Spies. Fun fact, I had no idea at the time but apparently all those shows had a lot of male viewers. In my case it probably started because I had to share TV time with my sister growing up, but I ended up enjoying all of those shows too, in some cases even more so. FiM is certainly not the first girl's show to draw in such a large male audience, and it won't be the last. What is the most intriguing is that many of its male fans are older. With the shows I listed, the male audience consisted primarily of boys in the same age group as the target demographic. We're outside of the target demographic for FiM in more ways than one.

 

Granted, I already knew that defining something as a girl's show didn't mean much. My sister also enjoyed shows like Madeline that I was less into but kind of had to put up with. G3 is literally background noise for toddler girls that Hasbro lazily threw together to promote their toys, and FiM is nothing like that. I'm glad I wasn't exposed to G3 as a kid. What makes FiM special is that it somehow shattered even my expectations, even though I wouldn't define myself as closed minded when it comes to girl's shows. To this day I can't quite explain why I enjoy FiM so much, but I've decided to embrace it regardless.

[FlutteringDweamz 2,086]

MLP is for everyone.

 

Even the 'girlier' seasons. Cuz, aren't bright colors happy to look at? Don't we all love flowers?

[Iggy Loo Loo 11]

I do not think it's fair to say that being edgy can't happen in a girl's show because girl's shows can be sick.

[Cwanky 17,761]

Even if we do accept the premise that MLP at some point originally wasn't always a "girls' show," somewhere down the road it became undeniable that the show sought out and targeted young girls, often in a very stereotypical and one dimensional manner. Everything from the "feminine" colors and themes that society associated with being female - excess of flowers, hearts and a generous palette of pinks, violets and bright happy colors along with many other cliches and tropes shows us this in later generations.

 

Interestingly I do agree that G1 was almost gender neutral in some senses, the monsters that were fought, the setting. It wasn't Strawberry Shortcake or Barbie meet Middle Earth. It was a very traditional fantasy setting with many of the elements left untouched - trolls, dragons and a setting that you might find in a more tame Lord of the Rings. Interestingly enough, one of the supporting characters was a human boy - Danny Williams - with very boyish traits. Humans were actually main characters in G1, (as opposed to being bastardized freakish Bratz dolls    in EG), something I think added a unique quality to that show.

 

http://hero.wikia.com/wiki/Danny_(MLP) 

 

But now compare that history, including G1 to G4 (FiM). Its not merely a show targeted at girls anymore. If anything, FiM has become more a show about protagonists who happen to be girls. Gender does play a role, but in the story of many episodes and overall theme, it often takes a backseat. Taking some of the more gender defying protagonists out for a moment - Applejack and Rainbow Dash - just look at the character who on face value shares many of the traditional feminine traits: Pinkie Pie.

 

She has an arguably very girly and high pitched voice, loves sweets like cupcakes, and probably most prominently her dominant color scheme is PINK, the default girl color, hence the name PINKie.

 

Yet if we were to ask people to describe Pinkie, I'd be willing to wager that girly is merely one among the many words I use to describe her. Fun, joy, loud, laughter, and annoying are all words that pop up at least for me. Among the Mane 6, I wouldn't even consider Pinkie that girly. That honor goes to Rarity and Fluttershy might beat her out there too.

 

But that is how far the show has gone. It has redefined not just gender, but done so in an effectively different and more meaningful way. We might argue that FiM wasn't the pioneer to start this, but given its impact, it certainly deserves recognition for the impact it has made. The simple fact alone that we, among many others, including academics and media, have discussed and argued over the impact and merits that FiM has in society shows how much of an impact it has made by drawing our attention. 

[Crypty Scribbles 6,739]

Bob agrees with this statement. XD