general Your take on what people call "Green Burial"?

[GrimGrimoire 4,973]

It cost about 10,000 dollars to bury my grandmother just having a barebones funeral, and she had already purchased a grave site before she had died. it should not cost that much to bury someone, I have yet to see a poor funeral home owner

 

That is open to interpretation. A lot of people pay FAR more and consider it money well spent. I have lost plenty of family and have had to bury them, so I do understand what you are coming from... but like anything else we had to shop around and just make the most informed decision we could. That is also why a lot more and more insurance companies are getting into burial insurance just for this fact alone. Burial is expensive, but if you are not looking for all the bells and whistles and the like, it becomes a lot more affordable.

[SparklingSquirrels 21,341]

I like the Green Burial idea. I hadn't heard about it before I saw this topic, but it sounds like a good alternative to the more expensive, less eco-friendly options.

[Anneal 2,197]

I like the Green Burial idea. I hadn't heard about it before I saw this topic, but it sounds like a good alternative to the more expensive, less eco-friendly options.

 

Cremation is rather cheap and conserves a lot of space, and traditional burials are actually not that expensive overall if everyone settled with wooden or steel caskets and removed all the extra "services". While we've heard of burials going upwards to at least $10K, in reality you can settle for $5K or even $3K, which is a bit more expensive than cremating, if you opted for a direct burial without the outside vault, embalming, using a cheaper casket, and comparing funeral home prices. 

 

Green burials cost a bit less than cremation, though it should also be said that cremation or traditional burial's effect on the environment is far less significant to that of other ground or air pollutants, so it really doesn't make that much of an impact. The pesticides used in some cemeteries do have much more negative effects, though it isn't even necessary to a cemetery. 

[Justin_Case001 4,885]

No it doesn't.

Conversation is our only means of coming up with better ways of doing things.  Yes, it is a conversation that needs to be had.  Leaving it alone simply because of tradition it not a good idea.

 

 

Because no one has the right to tell anyone else how they should feel about or treat the death of a loved one.

I agree.  But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be able to criticize bad ideas.  If we can't be free to criticize bad ideas, then we can never improve anything.

 

 

Just because some people don't give a crap does not mean no one does

I take it the implication being that I don't give a crap?  This isn't true at all, but I apologize if my post gave that impression.

 

 

Death is not always about throwing someone in the ground and forgetting them

I didn't say that.  I didn't even imply it.

 

 

it is about many other things as well, including celebrating the living themselves.

I completely agree.

 

 

Cemeteries are not useless swaths of land to be avoided at all costs. Several are parks, and others are becoming gardens that both celebrate the dead and give the living someplace serene to spend time.

Oh, well, that's good to hear.  I was not aware of that.  That's definitely a step in the right direction.

 

 

All of the things you mention we have plenty of about all over the place, but sure, lets bulldoze more land and put up more buildings of brick and mortar that require taxes and upkeep and create traffic and pollution and destroy far more land than any graveyard ever does.

I wasn't advocating rampant urban sprawl.  I was merely suggesting that the resources spent on the dead be put towards the living instead.  The population of the planet is always increasing, whether we like it or not (and I do not).  It's a fact that those things I mentioned are needed, and we'll need more of them.  I apologize if this sounds callous, but when I look at an expensive cemetery, with elaborate tombstones, expensive, fancy caskets and the like, I imagine how much more good that money could have done if it went to feed starving children in the third world, or to fund cancer research or what have you.  I realize that it's a family's right to do what they want with their own money, but I also can't help looking at the greater good, and taking an taking an altruistic stance when all that money and resources are just going to sit in the ground where they aren't doing any good to anybody.

 

 

Who cares how anyone else feels or what their wishes are, because their dead right, and only the living matter.

To an extent, yes.  A person's final wishes do matter, but the living matter much more, and I believe a person's wishes on how their death be handled should respect that.

 

 

Why don't we just throw people in the garbage like spoiled milk and yesterdays newspaper?

I wasn't advocating that at all.  I sense that perhaps you're using reductio ad absurdum because I touched a nerve.  If so, then I apologize.

 

 

After all, they won't care and that is what landfills are for right? Disposing of that which is of no importance to the living.

Again, I certainly wasn't advocating that, yet it is true that the dead don't care.  And I never suggested that the dead aren't important to the living, but their physical remains shouldn't be.  There simply isn't a logical or responsible justification for spending money and resources to preserve them, in my opinion.

 

 

I am all for green burials, eco-friendly solutions and finding ways to lower funeral costs and make it easier on families of the deceased.

I am very glad to hear it.

 

 

But I am equally for respecting the dead and their wishes and those of their family who may be doing their best to represent that.

So am I, as long as their wishes are environmentally responsible, and the wishes of the deceased don't leave their families in debt.

 

 

Apology not accepted.

Okay, so I thought I'd just address this together with my closing statement for GrimGrimoire.

 

Sometimes I get frustrated with trying to phrase everything in the most tactful and diplomatic way possible when criticizing what I feel are bad ideas.  I'm usually very tactful, but I wasn't this time, and I should have been.  Once again, I apologize.  I never meant to insult or attack any person.  I was only attacking ideas and traditions that no one alive today invented.  But still, I should not have been so harsh.  I wrote that post too quickly when I really should have taken more time to think it through and write something more thorough and less hostile.  I want to make sure that it's understood that I'm sensitive to the feelings of those who have lost loved ones.  My post didn't adequately express that.  I harshly criticized the traditions of expensive burial, but I don't want that to be mistaken for callousness towards the dead.  I never advocated chucking the dead in a hole, or in the garbage, and forgetting about them.  I'd like to reiterate my statement that none of the expensive or elaborate traditions are needed to have the utmost dignity and respect for the deceased, as well as giving the living proper closure and means of remembrance.

[GrimGrimoire 4,973]

Sometimes I get frustrated with trying to phrase everything in the most tactful and diplomatic way possible when criticizing what I feel are bad ideas.  I'm usually very tactful, but I wasn't this time, and I should have been.  Once again, I apologize.  I never meant to insult or attack any person.  I was only attacking ideas and traditions that no one alive today invented.  But still, I should not have been so harsh.  I wrote that post too quickly when I really should have taken more time to think it through and write something more thorough and less hostile.  I want to make sure that it's understood that I'm sensitive to the feelings of those who have lost loved ones.  My post didn't adequately express that.  I harshly criticized the traditions of expensive burial, but I don't want that to be mistaken for callousness towards the dead.  I never advocated chucking the dead in a hole, or in the garbage, and forgetting about them.  I'd like to reiterate my statement that none of the expensive or elaborate traditions are needed to have the utmost dignity and respect for the deceased, as well as giving the living proper closure and means of remembrance.

 

Well, I do want you and anyone else to understand i am not attacking your beliefs or trying to dismiss anything you say "as wrong" or "stupid". There are a lot of good points there for people interested in diminishing their footprint upon this planet. Also, I was not trying to insinuate anything in particular within your personal thoughts, so much as trying to both round up some other comments and opinions I have seen expressed, and address them in a much more broad and visceral way. A great many take a contemptuous stance upon any opinions or actions not their own, and instead of listening and understanding someones point of view (even if you do not personally agree or have the same outlook), they disregard it and all explanations, and then proceed to openly mock or slander those actions and opinions in an effort to make themselves "more right" and the opponent "more wrong" when it has nothing to do with morality and instead has everything to do with individual feelings on how one wishes to handle the death of a loved one or their own eventual demise.

 

The fact is there is nothing wrong with looking at the future of burial and how we handle the deceased. The world is changing, we have more options now and are discovering new ways to deal with it in many ways. But we also have to understand that it is a sensitive subject for a great many people in a particularly sensitive situation, and we cannot disregard that and try to criticize how they feel and what they are trying to accomplish. At the end of the day, all most families are doing, is trying to do one last thing for someone they loved and make them comfortable and happy. Whether the dead know and appreciate this or not is immaterial,,, because in seeking that comfort and happiness, they are just as equally looking for closure.

[Fluttershutter 2,453]

Makes perfect sense to me. The whole coffin thing is ridiculous. Even for a cremation they make you buy one. 

 

I've said before that when I die I want the meat fed to wolves. Tibetan monks do something similar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_burial

[Anneal 2,197]

Makes perfect sense to me. The whole coffin thing is ridiculous. Even for a cremation they make you buy one. 

 

I've said before that when I die I want the meat fed to wolves. Tibetan monks do something similar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_burial

 

Cremation is rather cheap and you're not obligated to use a coffin. You have many options for cremation or burial, and the reason why traditional burials are so expensive is because people somehow feel obligated to buy extra commodities that are unnecessary or have cheaper options. Caskets can go for less than $2000 easily if you just chose steel or decent quality wood, and calling for extra funeral services, body decoration, outside concrete vaults, or embalming is completely optional. 

 

Direct burial and cremation significantly reduces costs as well. Cremation has the benefit of also reducing space (or not using any at all if you're just going for a burial urn) and newer technologies are making the process much cleaner and faster. Some religions and cultures practice cremation as well. 

[EpicEnergy 23,218]

Oh, so it's called "green burial" because it's environmentally friendly. I still wouldn't do it, doesn't seem respectful.