Shining Armor vs Starlight Glimmer

[RulesofRarity 489]

Starlight Glimmer. I'm not sure why this is much of a debate honestly, Shining Armor has few magical feats that put him on the same level as a unicorn like Starlight.  His most notable feat(not counting when he and Cadence expelled the channelings as that was a joint effort) was holding up that force shield. This doesn't seem that unique as we saw Cadence do the same thing in literally the next episode and we've seen unicorn Twilight create a force shield around her treehouse. 

Starlight's feats are massively more impressive, time travel, super speed, duplication and not to forget she fought on par with Alicorn Twilight(bullshit but a feat none the less). 

Edited July 26, 2017 by RulesofRarity

[Peter16373 103]

13 minutes ago, Philweasel said:

I'm not sure alicorns are much tougher or magic resistant than your average, powerfully built pony. Being able to hurt them or affect them with magic doesn't seem that difficult, Twilight doesn't seem any less vulnerable to harm than before. What makes them powerful is being bigger than most ponies, having wings, having a horn, and plentiful magical power. Not to mention Celestia and Twilight are magical prodigies.

Twilight's issue in "Cutie Map" is she takes too long powering up her attacks, and has no concept of defense. (she should ask her brother for combat lessons)

And Twilight did defeat Starlight in Cutie Remark. It just didn't do any good, because it still disrupted the events that led to the Sonic Rainboom. That's what Twilight meant, that Starlight had set things up so everything Twilight tried would change the timeline, so in effect she couldn't 'win'.

In the book they said before Celestia and Luna were raising the sun and moon they needed groups of elite unicorns that are likely on par with or slightly weaker than Shining Armor to raise it. While Starswirl and the Royal Sisters were able to do it by themselves.

Also it doesn't matter if her guard was down Starlight was still able to affect Twilight with a spell.

In the fight that Twilight and Starlight had right before the Nightmare Moon timeline they tied with each other. They were both tired after their magical beam fight. And I don't think having a tie with someone counts as a win.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Peter16373

[DonMaguz 1,023]

If they are directly confronted I would say Shining by a small edge. His combat training must be considered, and even if Starlight has a bigger amount of spells, she wouldn't be able to cast most of them under fighting pressure.

If they are indirectly confronted (in a hunt down the other scenario) Starlight takes the win easily. She's way more resourceful and has proven to be a mastermind to achieve her goals.

[Philweasel 139]

16 minutes ago, Peter16373 said:

In the fight that Twilight and Starlight had right before the Nightmare Moon timeline they tied with each other. They were both tired after their magical beam fight.

You're right. I remember Twilight managing to nail her once, but looking at it again she escaped about a second later. And to be honest... I think Starlight was better than Twilight in that fight.

Not more powerful, but better. I've never rated Twilight's combat skill, and that fight demonstrates why. Constantly wasteful movement, telegraphed attacks, poor accuracy, bad posture... yeah, Starlight had her number from the beginning, and at best Twilight got lucky a few times.

However, here's the crucial point. Starlight's magic gets more powerful, the more emotional she is.

Look at her in Cutie Remark. Lady is coco crazy. Her emotions are all over the place, she leaps from smug to screaming in rage at the slightest provocation. This is likely the most powerful she will ever be, and it gave her enough to fight Twilight in a battle that seemed to be favoring her. This is very impressive for an ordinary unicorn, but she's not usually operating on that level of power, and it wasn't a curb stomp.

I'm also not entirely sure Twilight could beat her brother in a fight, especially with that showing.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Philweasel

[Peter16373 103]

12 minutes ago, Philweasel said:

You're right. I remember Twilight managing to nail her once, but looking at it again she escaped about a second later. And to be honest... I think Starlight was better than Twilight in that fight.

Not more powerful, but better. I've never rated Twilight's combat skill, and that fight demonstrates why. Constantly wasteful movement, telegraphed attacks, poor accuracy, bad posture... yeah, Starlight had her number from the beginning, and at best Twilight got lucky a few times.

However, here's the crucial point. Starlight's power gets more powerful, the more emotional she is.

Look at her in Cutie Remark. Lady is coco crazy. Her emotions are all over the place, she leaps from smug to screaming in range at the slightest provocation. This is likely the most powerful she will ever be, and it gave her enough to fight Twilight in a battle that seemed to be favoring her. This is very impressive for an ordinary unicorn, but she's not usually operating on that level of power, and it wasn't a curb stomp.

I'm also not entirely sure Twilight could beat her brother in a fight, especially with that showing.

Actually from what we know by now her base power is around the level of an alicorn. Since in Season 6 Episode 21 Every Little Thing She Does she wasn't going crazy and yet she was still managing to hold her own and even have a slight advantage over Twilight in their training session. So theoretically if her current base power is equal to or slightly superior to an alicorn than it's possible that she can get many times stronger through anger. Also Twilight would definitely beat Shining Armor in a fight even if she is less skilled literally due to not only power advantage and magical spells but also the fact that Alicorns also have insane reaction speed. Somebody calculated the feat that Nightmare Moon made when she reacted to a beam that the Elements of Harmony shot which reached the moon in a few seconds which was I think they said relativistic speed which was between 10 - 50% the Speed of Light. While Shining Armor was like way lower.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Peter16373

[Nohate 36]

Personally I agree with pretty much everything Peter16373 said. Starlight just has way too many feats and accomplishments that Shining Armor can't even compare to. She as a unicorn has magic power equal to that or higher than that of Alicorns which has only ever been replicated by Starswirl the Bearded. She invented new spells that nopony has seen before and even completed the time travel spell that Starswirl has never been able to finish in his lifetime. Also it seems to me even her speed is just as good as Rainbow Dash as shown in the Season 5 Finale montage when she was flying with Pre-Sonic Rainboom Rainbow Dash at roughly the same speed. On top of the fact that she's able to battle Alicorns who can react to magical beams that can reach the moon in a few seconds similar to Piccolo shooting a energy beam that reached the moon in a few seconds at the Beginning of DBZ. So my vote here is 100% Starlight with no difficulty at all.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Nohate

[Philweasel 139]

25 minutes ago, Peter16373 said:

Actually from what we know by now her base power is around the level of an alicorn. Since in Season 6 Episode 21 Every Little Thing She Does she wasn't going crazy and yet she was still managing to hold her own and even have a slight advantage over Twilight in their training session. So theoretically if her current base power is equal to or slightly superior to an alicorn than it's possible that she can get many times stronger through anger. Also Twilight would definitely beat Shining Armor in a fight even if she is less skilled literally due to not only power advantage and magical spells but also the fact that Alicorns also have insane reaction speed. Somebody calculated the feat that Nightmare Moon made when she reacted to a beam that the Elements of Harmony shot which reached the moon in a few seconds which was I think they said relativistic speed which was between 10 - 50% the Speed of Light. While Shining Armor was like way lower.

The pony universe's moon clearly isn't that far away.

...or particularly heavy apparently.

Lets face it, bringing real world physics into this is likely a doomed venture.

 

[Peter16373 103]

 

23 minutes ago, Philweasel said:

The pony universe's moon clearly isn't that far away.

...or particularly heavy apparently.

Lets face it, bringing real world physics into this is likely a doomed venture.

 

So what you're trying to say is just because it's fiction we aren't allowed to calculate how fast a beam is. Seriously even animes have done these things so why can't MLP do it? Another thing i want to say is that you literally just showed a comic page where characters that can move the SUN is currently pulling a MOON closer to the planet with MAGIC so they could fly towards it. Also I'm pretty sure it's already been confirmed by the creators somewhere that the Sun and Moon are the same as ours. Which is why I'm pretty sure if Starlight can battle a character that is comparable to another character that can react to a really really fast beam that would count as a speed feat right? Especially considering the fact that even if you don't use real life physics to calculate it you can still see that it reached the moon in a few seconds in the flashback of Season 4 Premiere which still counts for something.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Peter16373

[Philweasel 139]

I just really don't see Twilight having reactions bordering on the relativistic. She got totally taken off guard by a crocodile and giant vines in "Princess Twilight Sparkle", as did the Princesses, where as the rest of the mane 6 actually put on much better showings. There's also the fight against the Evil Celestia in "Reflections, where Twilight (and Applejack) were doing the worst, and Rainbow Dash and Pinkie were the only ones landing attacks (with Rainbow Dash's actually seeming to hurt).

And if the moon's physics worked like ours, that stunt would have destroyed the planet.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Philweasel

[Nohate 36]

18 minutes ago, Philweasel said:

I just really don't see Twilight having reactions bordering on the relativistic. She got totally taken off guard by a crocodile and giant vines in "Princess Twilight Sparkle", as did the Princesses, where as the rest of the mane 6 actually put on much better showings. There's also the fight against the Evil Celestia in "Reflections, where Twilight (and Applejack) were doing the worst, and Rainbow Dash and Pinkie were the only ones landing attacks (with Rainbow Dash's actually seeming to hurt).

And if the moon's physics worked like ours, that stunt would have destroyed the planet.

Well every show is full of inconsistent speed showings anyway. An example is The Flash TV show they say Barry's top speed was only Mach 13.2 when he was dodging lightning which would require over Mach 100. Which is why if they were to be scaled to their best feat was than it would be relativistic for the Alicorns and anybody stronger than them due to power scaling. Otherwise it sometimes might be slightly lower or lower by a lot.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Nohate

[Philweasel 139]

1 minute ago, Nohate said:

Well the show is full of inconsistent speed showings anyway. But if you see what their best feat was than it would be relativistic for the Alicorns and anybody stronger than them due to power scaling.

Well because it's never replicated anywhere else and is contradicted elsewhere, I'm inclined to put it down to an 'element of harmony thing'.

I note that Unicorn Twilight has as fast, or slightly faster reactions that Nightmare Moon, or her teleportation stunt in the first episode would have never worked.

[Nohate 36]

4 minutes ago, Philweasel said:

Well because it's never replicated anywhere else and is contradicted elsewhere, I'm inclined to put it down to an 'element of harmony thing'.

I note that Unicorn Twilight has as fast, or slightly faster reactions that Nightmare Moon, or her teleportation stunt in the first episode would have never worked.

Sorry I kinda edited the post at the exact time you replied. Also gtg sleep now ill talk to you in the morning.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Nohate

[ManaMinori 4,144]

10 hours ago, Hierok said:

I think Shining wins. He is smarter in situations with pressure. 

in what world? Did you skip over "The Crystalling"?

[Hierok 11,829]

9 minutes ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

in what world? Did you skip over "The Crystalling"?

No I didn't, and I don't really know where you are pointing at. 

[ManaMinori 4,144]

10 minutes ago, Hierok said:

No I didn't, and I don't really know where you are pointing at. 

go watch it, and see how well Shining performs under stress.

[Hierok 11,829]

23 minutes ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

go watch it, and see how well Shining performs under stress.

Having a child is not the kind of stress I meant.  Besides, I thought it was battling with words. It was with my second comment that I realized it was violence. 

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

This isn't a fight, it's a total domination, Celestia losing to Chrysalis was either because Celestia held back due to all the bystanders in the room, or because Chrysalis drained all the love out of the strongest couple in Equestria, their love is the most powerful there so yeah, Chrysalis got amped.

Starlight is on par with Twilight and a superior fighter. Twilight is vastly more powerful than Shining Armor it's just Shining has one good specialty, defense, but eventually he will lost ground and Starlight would take him, I would say he couldn't land a single blow on her.

7 hours ago, Philweasel said:

Well because it's never replicated anywhere else and is contradicted elsewhere, I'm inclined to put it down to an 'element of harmony thing'.

I note that Unicorn Twilight has as fast, or slightly faster reactions that Nightmare Moon, or her teleportation stunt in the first episode would have never worked.

Nightmare Moon wasn't taking Twilight seriously at all. She thought Twilight was absolute fodder back then (she was, but she was clever fodder) if Nightmare Moon was trying Twilight would have been dead in an instant.

[Goat-kun 2,502]

No wink initiate tactics, no ability to transition successful CC into a burst combo, no awareness. As far as I'm concerned, all the ponies are a bunch of inexperienced little shits who wouldn't last a minute against a real battle mage. Thus we're basically talking about a street brawl, and the only things that would matter in this brawl are general endurance and mana pool. How long could Shining hold up his barrier against Starlight? Is Starlight stupid enough to fly all the time and inexperienced enough to let emotions dictate her magic output? Shining is a big stallion who specializes in defense. He also undoubtedly received military training that probably increased his stamina further. If he can get her stressed and tired, he only really needs one clear jab in a vital area to get her foaming on the floor.

 

On a related note, one could compare how long Shining held up the barrier over Canterlot to how long Starlight lasted when she was bottling her anger to get a crude take on their endurance and quite possibly their magic reserves.

[Tilgoreth 1,915]

14 hours ago, Hierok said:

I think Shining wins. He is smarter in situations with pressure. 

How else did he survive Chrysalis's seird fantasies. 

Starlgith teleports inside his head killing him. Done.

[Philweasel 139]

3 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

No wink initiate tactics, no ability to transition successful CC into a burst combo, no awareness. As far as I'm concerned, all the ponies are a bunch of inexperienced little shits who wouldn't last a minute against a real battle mage. Thus we're basically talking about a street brawl, and the only things that would matter in this brawl are general endurance and mana pool. How long could Shining hold up his barrier against Starlight? Is Starlight stupid enough to fly all the time and inexperienced enough to let emotions dictate her magic output? Shining is a big stallion who specializes in defense. He also undoubtedly received military training that probably increased his stamina further. If he can get her stressed and tired, he only really needs one clear jab in a vital area to get her foaming on the floor.

I do think Shining's absolute best chance is to get her mad, then tank her shots until she wears herself out. And personally, I'm pretty certain his shields are better than Twilight's. They're apparently better than Celestia and Luna's, otherwise they would be the ones shielding Canterlot.

His worst idea is to let her get clever and rational. Starlight's major advantage is her range of unique spells and her cunning, given some time to think I'm sure she could figure out some way to bypass his shields or force him to drop his defenses.

[Philweasel 139]

4 hours ago, Tilgoreth said:

How else did he survive Chrysalis's seird fantasies. 

Starlgith teleports inside his head killing him. Done.

I suspect teleporting into one another would only form some sort of combined entity that would be forced to explore its new identity and perspective before being murdered by Captain Janeway at the end of the episode.

I'm not sure if this would count as a victory for anyone involved.

[Tilgoreth 1,915]

57 minutes ago, Philweasel said:

I suspect teleporting into one another would only form some sort of combined entity that would be forced to explore its new identity and perspective before being murdered by Captain Janeway at the end of the episode.

I'm not sure if this would count as a victory for anyone involved.

Except his head would explode. 

[Hierok 11,829]

7 hours ago, Tilgoreth said:

How else did he survive Chrysalis's seird fantasies. 

Starlgith teleports inside his head killing him. Done.

I don't think that is possible. 

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

3 hours ago, Philweasel said:

I do think Shining's absolute best chance is to get her mad, then tank her shots until she wears herself out. And personally, I'm pretty certain his shields are better than Twilight's. They're apparently better than Celestia and Luna's, otherwise they would be the ones shielding Canterlot.

His worst idea is to let her get clever and rational. Starlight's major advantage is her range of unique spells and her cunning, given some time to think I'm sure she could figure out some way to bypass his shields or force him to drop his defenses.

Shining is best for his endurance, Starlight is best for versatility, whoever can make use of their advantages can win. In brawl fight without any complicate tactics, Shining can absorb all the attacks and let Starlight burn out. If Starlight can use a half of her brain then Shining will be in trouble because his ability is too defensive, but its not impossible for Shining to win, afterall, his stamina and his mane pool are massive (he is being absorbed by Chrysalis everyday and still protect Canterlot with his shield until near the end of Canterlot Wedding), Starlight was just exhausted by the simple Shooting Lazer and Shield fights with Twilight, if she cant finish the fight fast (which is impossible due to Shining ridiculous stamina), she'll lose. Remember Shining protected THE WHOLE CANTERLOT by himself, imagine if he use his power to protect HIMSELF alone, and who says he cant attack? He can hold Sombra to buy time for mane 6 and stay alive, Starlight cannot even finish the fight with Twilight. I dont care how many skills you have in RPG if your enemy's HP is 5x more than yours and you cannot even inflict any damage to him.

So, i think Shining will win in a duel, unless Starlight use teleport to escape (i will count escaping as losing the duel), or she has some ridiculous spells that i didnt even know yet.

 

[Philweasel 139]

2 hours ago, Hierok said:

I don't think that is possible. 

Telefragging is one of those things that sounds plausible, but I'm pretty sure would be deeply unpleasant for all involved.