Shining Armor vs Starlight Glimmer

[Philweasel 139]

Here's a question someone asked elsewhere, which sparked a bit of interesting debate. In a straight fight between Shining Armor and Starlight Glimmer, who do you think would win?

For the purpose of the debate Starlight does not benefit from plot armor given by being a main character and a girl, and arguing for her should be considered 'easy mode'.

[Hierok 11,829]

I think Shining wins. He is smarter in situations with pressure. 

[CypherHoof 26,479]

I would assume SA too. While Starlight is certainly superior in magic ability, I would assume SA's unique magical shield would allow him to deflect purely magical attacks, leaving it down to straight combat - and as a captain of the royal guard, you would presume his training would allow him to dominate even physically more imposing ponies in combat, never mind a more magic-focused pony like Starlight.

[Peter16373 103]

I'm gonna have to go with a Starlight Glimmer due to superior magical prowess from fighting with Alicorn Twilight and able to affect the Royal Sisters with her magic and possibly much more larger array of spells. This is how i think it would play out. 

They both start off around 10 meters away from each other. SG would attack first and SA would try to block it but due to the difference in power between the two he would have to dodge after his shield starts to crack. Than he would try to bombard SG with a bunch of magic spam and Starlight would either block it with her crystal shield or use levitation and dodge it. After SG dodges it she would create a smokescreen around SA and while his vision has been blocked by the smoke SG would create a clone with the Similo Duplexis and Accelero spell and than cast the invisibility spell. Finally the clone would distract him and he would seemingly defeat her but than BAM the real SG appears and gets him with the Cutie Mark removing spell and than its GG for SA. 

Seriously though everybody seems to forget that Starlight knows way more spells than even Twilight. And we all know how impressive Twilight's spells are.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Peter16373

[Hierok 11,829]

33 minutes ago, Peter16373 said:

I'm gonna have to go with a Starlight Glimmer due to superior magical prowess from fighting with Alicorn Twilight and able to affect the Royal Sisters with her magic and possibly much more larger array of spells. This is how i think it would play out. 

They both start off around 10 meters away from each other. SG would attack first and SA would try to block it but due to the difference in power between the two he would have to dodge after his shield starts to crack. Than he would try to bombard SG with a bunch of magic spam and Starlight would either block it with her crystal shield or use levitation and dodge it. After SG dodges it she would create a smokescreen around SA and while his vision has been blocked by the smoke SG would create a clone with the Similo Duplexis and Accelero spell and than cast the invisibility spell. Finally the clone would distract him and he would seemingly defeat her but than BAM the real SG appears and gets him with the Cutie Mark removing spell and than its GG for SA. 

Seriously though everybody seems to forget that Starlight knows way more spells than even Twilight. And we all know how impressive Twilight's spells are.

Don't forget that Shining has strong magic too and Twilight is stronger then Starlight btw. Remember in Canterlot Wedding where Shining pulled a force field for days where hundreds of changelings tried to break it? That means he has some magic in him. 

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

Shining Armor's raw power is massive, he can protect the whole Canterlot by himself, Starlight is no match to him in Brawl fight. Starlight can only win her enemies by catch them off-guard like Cutie Mark Magic, or Mind-control spell. If you dont include any tactics, sneak attack, just a direct beat down, then Starlight will lose regardless.

[CypherHoof 26,479]

Shining Armour's (unique, so presumably cutie-mark based) shield appears MASSIVELY OP. he can fend off an entire Changeling army, by himself, for days. When expanding, the shield is selectively permeable - passing though a group of ponies and changelings, it can impart enough force to the changelings to physically throw them out of the city (while leaving the ponies untouched, and destroying any ropes or similar the ponies were bound by) and do the whole thing at city-wide scales. It was implied that Chrysalis (who can beat down Celestia, one on one) couldn't crack it with all the resources at her disposal.

It's possible eastern unicorn magic has something that can put a crack in it, but I wouldn't want to be the unicorn that had to find out if that were true in combat with him.

[cmarston1 5,951]

I would like to see Shining Armor win, but Starlight's unbelievably OP goddess magic would probably give her the advantage.

[Guest]

I'm not a fan of Starlight Glimmer at all but I think she has an advantage in terms of magical ability- the reason I don't like her, actually. Shining Armor certainly seems like a capable unicorn, but I can't imagine him being able to beat his sister, but Starlight did.

[Peter16373 103]

Seriously why does everybody downplay Starlight so much? 

 

First let let me explain the Chrysalis beats Celestia thing. She only beat Celestia 1 on 1 AFTER I repeat AFTER she absorbed the love from Shining Armor. Before that it's been shown in the comics that she couldn't beat either Alicorn Twilight or Princess Luna in the same arc 1 on 1 without absorbing something. So before Chrysalis absorbs love she is around equal to if not slightly stronger than Shining Armor as she could affect him with her magic.

 

The Changelings are fodder which is why it took so many of them to destroy Shining Armor's barrier. Seriously even Fluttershy can fight them 1 on 1 FLUTTERSHY! Also pretty much all Alicorns have better feats than Shining Armor. Seriously even the weakest Alicorn Cadence was able to maintain a barrier over the ENTIRE CRYSTAL EMPIRE FOR DAYS! So Shining Armor's city sized shield pretty much pales in comparison. 

 

While Starlight on the other hand has directly contended with Alicorn Twilight and TIED with her in the Season 5 finale and that's pre season 6 where she learned even more spells and fought Twilight again in training. On top of showing the fact that her magic is powerful enough to affect even the Royal Sisters in Season 7 Episode 10 A Royal Problem. Not to mention Starlight said she gets stronger the angrier she gets (Pretty much like either Gohan or Future Trunks from Dragon Ball)

 

Now im gonna make a list of top 35 strongest characters and artifacts in My Little Pony Comics Included. 

 

35. Twilight Sparkle (Unicorn) (Able to slightly fight a losing battle against Queen Chrysalis in the comics.)

34. Sunset Shimmer (Should be slightly better at magic than Twilight due to being Celestia's former student before her.)

33. Shining Armor (Should be stronger than unicorn Twilight as the Captain of the Royal Guards with more experience.)

32. (Possibly Tied) Queen Chrysalis (Should be stronger than shining Armor) and King Thorax (Should be as strong as Queen Chrysalis as the new leader of the Changelings.)

31. Spike (Adult Dragon Form) (Stronger than Queen Chrysalis and her army of Changelings in the comics.)

30. Demon Sunset (Uses leftover magic of the Elements of Harmony brought from Equestria to transform.)

29. Daydream Shimmer (Should be stronger than Demon Sunset but below Midnight Sparkle.)

28. Midnight Sparkle (Slightly stronger than Daydream Shimmer.)

27. Alicorn Amulet Trixe Lulamoon (Should have gained some of the powers of an Alicorn.)

26. Radiant Hope (Shown to be able to hurt Celestia slightly with her magic beams in the comics. Was supposed to become an alicorn had she not given up on her destiny for Sombra.)

25. Princess Amore (Shouldn't be that much weaker than the Royal Sisters as she protected the Crystal Empire from threats by herself for years.)

24. Princess Mi Amore Cadenza (aka Cadence) (Least combat adept of the Alicorns but still has feats above that of normal unicorns.)

23. Princess Twilight Sparkle (Alicorn) (Should be around as strong as the Royal Sisters albeit slightly weaker due to not having as much experience.)

22. Princess Luna (Shouldn't be that much weaker than Celestia.)

21. Princess Celestia (Shown to be slightly stronger than Luna during their training days in the comics.)

20. Starlight Glimmer (Slightly stronger than Twilight Sparkle and has much more spells some of which can affect the Royal Sisters. Could be potentially even stronger when angered.)

19. Starswirl the Bearded (Is the magic teacher of the Royal Sister and also shown to be slightly stronger in the comics.)

18. Nightmare Moon (Slightly stronger than Princess Celestia.)

17. Daybreaker (Possibly slightly stronger than Nightmare Moon as shown in A Royal Problem.)

16. Bookworm (In Story World) (Shown to be able to defeat Alicorn Twilight and the Mane 5 in the Story world in the comics.)

15. Queen Chrysalis (Post-Love absorbed) (Defeated Princess Celestia 1 on 1 fairly easily.)

14. Shining Armor (Power of Love) (Defeated Queen Chrysalis (Post-Love absorbed) and the Changeling Army.)

13. Lord Tirek (Post-Shining Armor) (Should be stronger than the Alicorns by now.)

12. The Dazzlings (Stronger than Starswirl the Bearded by a significant margin which forced him to banish them to another dimension.)

11. Nightmare Rarity (Managed to survive an Incomplete Elements of Harmony beam.)

10. King Sombra (Around as powerful as the Royal Sisters combined. Got even stronger in the comics.)

9. Crystal Heart (Defeated King Sombra and the Umbrum Army.)

8. Flurry Heart (Power Fluctuating) (Destroyed the Crystal Heart.)

7. Discord (Casually stronger than the Royal Sisters combined.)

6. Lord Tirek (Post-Mane 6) (Strong enough to take the magic of Discord.)

5. Elements of Harmony (Beat Discord And is probably stronger than Lord Tirek (Post-Mane 6).)

4. Lord Tirek (Post-Discord) (Slightly weaker than All Alicorn Twilight Sparkle.)

3. All Alicorn Twilight Sparkle (Slightly stronger than Lord Tirek (Post-Discord).)

2. Lord Tirek (Post-All Alicorn Twilight Sparkle) (Twice as strong as his previous form.)

1. Rainbow Power (Defeated Lord Tirek (Post-All Alicorn Twilight Sparkle.)

 

Honorable Mentions

Shadowlock (Only seen him bring monsters to life through books but we don't know how strong he truly is. Could be stronger than unicorn Twilght and possibly as strong as Alicorns due to his bloodline of possibly being related to the Pony of Shadows.)

Trixie Lulamoon (Base) (Shown to be able to instantly master spells Starlight taught her.)

Maud Pie (Unknown on how to compare physical strength to magic.)

Rainbow Dash (Unknown with her Sonic Rainboom.)

Pinkie Pie (Unknown with her gag powers and 4th wall breaking.)

Gloriosa Daisy (Her best feat is not even as impressive as Rarity's weather pattern feat from the Season 3 Finale.)

 

Wow can't believe it took me an hour to write a reply. Oh well if you have any questions you can ask me. And if you want proof on these than I can also take screenshots of it.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Peter16373

[Philweasel 139]

Excellent. When this argument was brought up before, I was shocked at the amount of people who thought Starlight would win easily. It made it clearly how overestimated Starlight is, and how underestimated Shining Armor is. I'm glad people are actually debating it.

47 minutes ago, Peter16373 said:

Wow can't believe it took me an hour to write a reply. Oh well if you have any questions you can ask me. And if you want proof on these than I can also take screenshots of it.

That is seriously impressive. Still I would argue with any kind of structured list, as too many things in combat are situational.

For a start, even the toughest pony is vulnerable to being one shotted by anyone of serious power (squishy flesh is squishy flesh), so attacks while they're off guard shouldn't be counted. This means Starlight Glimmer's "A Royal Problem" shenanigans and all of Chrysalis' off screen victories don't really mean much in terms of direct confrontation.

Also, the various artifacts definitely seem to work in different ways if you go from the comics. The crystal heart was designed to repel umbrum, so it's only natural it would not be healthy for Sombra. On the other hand, I doubt it would do that much to Chrysalis or Tirek. And if 'Chaos Theory' was right about the Elements of Harmony (which I'm still on the fence about), and they are the embodiment of Order (which... seems off, but we'll go with that) then it makes sense that it wouldn't affect Accord or Starlight.

It would explain why Celestia and Luna didn't use them on Sombra though. By that reasoning they likely wouldn't have worked on him either!

I also question putting Sombra that far up the list. He didn't stand a chance against Celestia and Luna in their first confrontation, and Celestia alone was holding out against him in their second. He only won because Chrysalis was 'holding off' (read, 'getting thrashed by') Luna, and Celestia's concentration was broken at a crucial moment.

I've got a bit more to say about Starlight and Shining armor specifically, but I'll hold off for a moment. I think that's long enough!

Edited July 26, 2017 by Philweasel

[Props Valroa 26,043]

Hm.

I'd say Shining Armour would put up a good fight and eventually lose. Starlight would probably win due to her magic. 

[Peter16373 103]

14 minutes ago, Philweasel said:

Excellent. When this argument was brought up before, I was shocked at the amount of people who thought Starlight would win easily. It made it clearly how overestimated Starlight is, and how underestimated Shining Armor is. I'm glad people are actually debating it.

That is seriously impressive. Still I would argue with any kind of structured list, as too many things in combat are situational.

For a start, even the toughest pony is vulnerable to being one shotted by anyone of serious power (squishy flesh is squishy flesh), so attacks while they're off guard shouldn't be counted. This means Starlight Glimmer's "A Royal Problem" shenanigans and all of Chrysalis' off screen victories don't really mean much in terms of direct confrontation.

Also, the various artifacts definitely seem to work in different ways if you go from the comics. The crystal heart was designed to repel umbrum, so it's only natural it would not be healthy for Sombra. On the other hand, I doubt it would do that much to Chrysalis or Tirek. And if 'Chaos Theory' was right about the Elements of Harmony (which I'm still on the fence about), and they are the embodiment of Order (which... seems off, but we'll go with that) then it makes sense that it wouldn't affect Accord or Starlight.

It would explain why Celestia and Luna didn't use them on Sombra though. By that reasoning they likely wouldn't have worked on him either!

I also question putting Sombra that far up the list. He didn't stand a chance against Celestia and Luna in their first confrontation, and Celestia alone was holding out against him in their second. He only won because Chrysalis was 'holding off' (read, 'getting thrashed by') Luna, and Celestia's concentration was broken at a crucial moment.

I've got a bit more to say about Starlight and Shining armor specifically, but I'll hold off for a moment. I think that's long enough!

No he stated in the comics that when he fought Celestia and Luna the first time he was inexperienced. But in the end it still took Celestia and Luna 2 on 1 to defeat him the first time. Than in the comics it showed that after he got serious he managed to casually turn both Celestia and Luna into stone. The same way he turned Princess Amore into stone and than shattered her. Also I know that the artifacts might not work on some characters but I'm just currently basing them off on best shown feats. Also I am pretty sure Starlight can beat Shining Armor pretty easily considering the fact that even Twilight was beating Chrysalis who is stronger than him 1 on 1 in a straight fight and Starlight has shown time and time again to be slightly superior to the Alicorns. 

Edited July 26, 2017 by Peter16373

[CypherHoof 26,479]

Hmm. I can also see that SA's strongest shield effect was after a buff from Cadence; it is possible in her absence he would have more issues...

[Philweasel 139]

10 minutes ago, Peter16373 said:

No he stated in the comics that when he fought Celestia and Luna the first time he was inexperienced. But in the end it still took Celestia and Luna 2 on 1 to defeat him the first time. Than in the comics it showed that after he got serious he managed to casually turn both Celestia and Luna into stone. The same way he turned Princess Amore into stone and than shattered her. Also I know that the artifacts might not work on some characters but I'm just currently basing them off on best shown feats.

Celestia had been holding him off until Radiant Heart distracted and zapped her though, and Luna wasn't even facing him at the time. I do consider him stronger than Celestia, but clearly not that much stronger. She was giving him a fight one on one.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Philweasel

[Peter16373 103]

Just now, Philweasel said:

Celestia had been holding him off until Radiant Heart distracted and zapped her though, and Luna wasn't even facing him at the time. I do consider him stronger than Celestia, but clearly not that much stronger. She was giving him a fight one on one.

I guess so but I'm still going with the possibility that he wasn't going full power yet. Because otherwise he would have a weaker showing of power than he did when he first fought the Royal Sisters. Also he never really used any of his magical abilities like magic nullification crystals or his mind attacking spells.

[Philweasel 139]

Speaking of that issue...

...poor Shining, he never gets any luck.

I do note that Twilight lasted about thirty more seconds after this though.

[Princess_Bellalatanya 1,052]

hoof to hoof,shining armor,due to him being a knight,with magic id say a draw due to shinings giant shield he can project

[Hierok 11,829]

1 hour ago, Peter16373 said:

Seriously why does everybody downplay Starlight so much? 

 

First let let me explain the Chrysalis beats Celestia thing. She only beat Celestia 1 on 1 AFTER I repeat AFTER she absorbed the love from Shining Armor. Before that it's been shown in the comics that she couldn't beat either Alicorn Twilight or Princess Luna in the same arc 1 on 1 without absorbing something. So before Chrysalis absorbs love she is around equal to if not slightly stronger than Shining Armor as she could affect him with her magic.

 

The Changelings are fodder which is why it took so many of them to destroy Shining Armor's barrier. Seriously even Fluttershy can fight them 1 on 1 FLUTTERSHY! Also pretty much all Alicorns have better feats than Shining Armor. Seriously even the weakest Alicorn Cadence was able to maintain a barrier over the ENTIRE CRYSTAL EMPIRE FOR DAYS! So Shining Armor's city sized shield pretty much pales in comparison. 

 

While Starlight on the other hand has directly contended with Alicorn Twilight and TIED with her in the Season 5 finale and that's pre season 6 where she learned even more spells and fought Twilight again in training. On top of showing the fact that her magic is powerful enough to affect even the Royal Sisters in Season 7 Episode 10 A Royal Problem. Not to mention Starlight said she gets stronger the angrier she gets (Pretty much like either Gohan or Future Trunks from Dragon Ball)

Also, remember Shining as under a spell, which made him weak and he still could hold the force field. I'm not downplaying Starlight at all. You overpowerd Starlight. But I think she wouldn't be able to destroy Shinings shield. But I don't see either win actually. I think they are tired around the same time and that Cadence for example can control the situation. 

[Philweasel 139]

First off the bat, the 'constantly getting defeated' problem. This affects both Celestia and Shining Armor, and does nothing for their credibility.

It should be pointed out however that those defeating them are pretty legit. Sombra is a curbstomp factory, debates on his power aside he's always portrayed as an absolute juggernaut. Therefore I wish to note for the record that Celestia held her own one on one, and Shining Armor faced him down in his episode and got away. Sure he was magic sealed, but he was still alive!

Also a point to Shining Armor in defeat? He did more impressively against Tirek than the entire population of Cloudsdale.

Chrysalis I shouldn't even have to debate, sure she's gotten the better of both of them multiple times, but as of 'Where and back again' most of the cast can say the same. Starlight only escaped because 1: She left Ponyville at exactly the right time.  2: Chrysalis didn't consider her particularly important.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Philweasel

[Peter16373 103]

8 minutes ago, Hierok said:

Also, remember Shining as under a spell, which made him weak and he still could hold the force field. I'm not downplaying Starlight at all. You overpowerd Starlight. But I think she wouldn't be able to destroy Shinings shield. But I don't see either win actually. I think they are tired around the same time and that Cadence for example can control the situation. 

You're missing the point. My point is that Starlight has shown to be around the level of the Alicorns if not slightly superior on 4 different occasions. 

1. Season 5 Premiere her Cutie Mark magic is able to affect Twilight after she became an alicorn

2. Season 5 Finale directly contended and tied with Alicorn Twilight. Also Twilight stated at the end that she couldn't stop her which was the first hint that Starlight was slightly stronger than the Alicorns.

3. Season 6 Episode 21 Every Little Thing She Does Starlight explains that she was a prodigy and showed off multiple spells and even created new ones that Twilight have never seen. Also Twilight commented that it was really hard to remove that mind control spell and said it was really strong stuff.

4. Season 7 Episode 10 A Royal Problem Starlight showed that her magic is strong enough to even affect the Royal Sisters.

Bear in mind Princess Cadence the weakest alicorn had a better shield feat than Shining Armor. And the other alicorn are leagues stronger than Cadence. Not to mention Starlight says her magic is tied to her emotions which means theoretically she could be even stronger than she is right now. So it's not overpowering Starlight these are actual facts.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Peter16373

[cuteycindyhoney 13,283]

Starlight could always go back in time and trounce Shining as a young colt.

[Peter16373 103]

6 minutes ago, Philweasel said:

First off the bat, the 'constantly getting defeated' problem. This affects both Celestia and Shining Armor, and does nothing for their credibility.

It should be pointed out however that those defeating them are pretty legit. Sombra is a curbstomp factory, debates on his power aside he's always portrayed as an absolute juggernaut. Therefore I wish to note for the record that Celestia held her own one on one, and Shining Armor faced him down in his episode and got away. Sure he was magic sealed, but he was still alive!

Also a point to Shining Armor in defeat? He did more impressively against Tirek than the entire population of Cloudsdale.

Chrysalis I shouldn't even have to debate, sure she's gotten the better of both of them multiple times, but as of 'Where and back again' most of the cast can say the same. Starlight only escaped because 1: She left Ponyville at exactly the right time.  2: Chrysalis didn't consider her particularly important.

Well obviously since Shining Armor despite being fodder to the top tier magic users in the series is still many times stronger than the average pony so obviously he would do better against the villains than everypony else. Basically it's like this. If Shining Armor = 100 average unicorns than the Alicorns and everybody else stronger than them are the equivalent of 1000+ unicorns.

Also we don't know for sure how the changelings captured the cast in TWABA all we know for sure is that Chrysalis was not part of the capture team she was still at the Changeling kingdom at that time. So they most probably took a small chunk of the magic nullifying throne and captured everypony.

[Hierok 11,829]

11 minutes ago, Peter16373 said:

You're missing the point. My point is that Starlight has shown to be around the level of the Alicorns if not slightly superior on 4 different occasions. 

1. Season 5 Premiere her Cutie Mark magic is able to affect Twilight after she became an alicorn

2. Season 5 Finale directly contended and tied with Alicorn Twilight. Also Twilight stated at the end that she couldn't stop her which was the first hint that Starlight was slightly stronger than the Alicorns.

3. Season 6 Episode 21 Every Little Thing She Does Starlight explains that she was a prodigy and showed off multiple spells and even created new ones that Twilight have never seen. Also Twilight commented that it was really hard to remove that mind control spell and said it was really strong stuff.

4. Season 7 Episode 10 A Royal Problem Starlight showed that her magic is strong enough to even affect the Royal Sisters.

Bear in mind Princess Cadence the weakest alicorn had a better shield feat than Shining Armor. And the other alicorn are leagues stronger than Cadence. Not to mention Starlight says her magic is tied to her emotions which means theoretically she could be even stronger than she is right now. So it's not overpowering Starlight these are actual facts.

1. Starlight didn't affect her in a real battle, but suprised them all. Twilight couldn't do anything.
2. In the battles yes, but Twilight couldn't stop Starlight, because Rainbow was messing the things up.
3. Yes, you got me there, but keep in mind Twilight didn't know the mindcontrol spell, so she had to thigger that out too.
4. I think if Celestia attacked her, Celestia would win. 

These are also facts you can't deny.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Hierok

[Philweasel 139]

I'm not sure alicorns are much tougher or magic resistant than your average, powerfully built pony. Being able to hurt them or affect them with magic doesn't seem that difficult, Twilight doesn't seem any less vulnerable to harm than before. What makes them powerful is being bigger than most ponies, having wings, having a horn, and plentiful magical power. Not to mention Celestia and Twilight are magical prodigies.

Twilight's issue in "Cutie Map" is she takes too long powering up her attacks, and has no concept of defense. (she should ask her brother for combat lessons)

And Twilight did defeat Starlight in Cutie Remark. It just didn't do any good, because it still disrupted the events that led to the Sonic Rainboom. That's what Twilight meant, that Starlight had set things up so everything Twilight tried would change the timeline, so in effect she couldn't 'win'.