Quality Guide for MLP:FiM

[Lone Traveler 91]

Here is a chart explaining my personal views of how I would divide up the eras of MLP by quality and how consistent they are with the original intentions behind the show.

Note that my personal season ranking is 4>2>3>1>5>7>6>9>8. I actually prefer the McCarthy Era over the Faust Era overall, but I recognize how the show changed. I completely understand why some strongly prefer the Faust Era, though I believe MLP didn't decline until after McCarthy and the veteran writers left.

I really hope this opens up some good discussion about the show, I would love to hear where you all agree and disagree. If any of you see any grammar errors, factual errors, have ideas on how to better phrase things, or have any good points or analysis that you think could be added to the chart, please tell me! I can always edit it and re-post! Also, here is a link to the Google Slides of this. If you want to make your own version of this chart, feel free to copy it and edit!

Edited October 16, 2022 by Lone Traveler

[flutterJackdash 218]

Goodness, that was a harsh review. But you worded it well, I see no room for improving spell or grammar in my first read through. However, I don't find that I agree with too much of what you've said, including the School not making sense or even feeling forced. I'll go into greater detail when I'm not eating, so my greasy fingers can't ruin my keyboard. But, thank you for sharing this.

[Lone Traveler 91]

1 hour ago, flutterJackdash said:

Goodness, that was a harsh review. But you worded it well, I see no room for improving spell or grammar in my first read through. However, I don't find that I agree with too much of what you've said, including the School not making sense or even feeling forced. I'll go into greater detail when I'm not eating, so my greasy fingers can't ruin my keyboard. But, thank you for sharing this.

Trust me, there are people in the fandom far harsher on MLP than I am. I find Seasons 1-4 great, 5 good, 6, 8, and 9 mediocre, and 7 okay. There's not a single season I consider outright bad, while many others consider the entirety of S6-9 bad, or even everything after 2 or 3 for some Faust purists.

I'm looking forward to your response, and I'll explain how I think the Friendship School could have worked properly:

1: Make it an actual school. Don't have the Mane Six (who have busy lives and aren't teachers) teach it. Have actual teachers teaching actual educational classes. They can still have like 1 friendship class ig, but it's still a SCHOOL above all else. Having the already busy mane six be the ONLY teaches and not showing them learn any educational stuff makes no sense. It can still be a "friendship school" by just having the focus of the school be on having the different species all together and promoting Equestrian values. Having friendship being some academic thing that requires a several classes to be taught is really weird to me, since friendship is developed mainly through experience. Celestia didn't teach Twilight friendship, she had her practically learn it through experience. That is why I found the concept forced.

2: The student six and the school should have had much more focus in Season 8 and especially 9. Seasons 8 and 9 suffered from taking too few risks, not for taking too many. Although they were willing to introduce the School of Friendship, it seemed like the show was scared of deviating too much from the norm, so the student six only had a few episodes in Season 8 and were a complete non presence in Season 9. Since I found the established characters flat and uninteresting by this point and I did not like most of the episodes featuring them, I think these seasons would have been far better if the Student 6 and Friendship school was developed far more. Even if it was done poorly, it would have at least given these seasons a new style and dynamic over the previous ones to give a sense of uniqueness and purpose. As it is these seasons were halfway stuck between trying to be unique and trying to be more of the same, and they fail in both of these departments imo.

[Lone Traveler 91]

3 minutes ago, Props ValRoa said:

I honestly agree with this. The show degraded in quality as it went on. While there were some episodes in season 8 and 9 that I liked, the School of Friendship and Twilicorn is something I never liked. 

How did you feel about Twilicorn in Season 4? I disliked it after Season 4 since Twilight became so flat and uninteresting compared to before, but in Season 4 I found Twilicorn great since the show actually developed Twilight's character and did stuff with it. 

[Lone Traveler 91]

11 minutes ago, Props ValRoa said:

I haven't actually watched all of the show even all of these years later so I do not really know exactly what to say, I just didn't like when Twilight became a princess of "friendship". To me, she will always and forever be a book nerd who is eager to learn. She wouldn't be into the idea of leading a society.

I agree, this was a huge part of the issue with her character post Season 4, she accepted her princess role way too eagerly (in contrast to her constant doubt and being unsure of it in Season 4) and it went against what a lot of people loved about her character.. 

[J.J 923]

I'll create my"comprehensive list" later and cherry pick the good from the bad, but honestly, some people's "Faust goggles" are on so tight they aren't getting any oxygen to their brain, yes she is the master craft, and she made some of the greatest episodes of this show, but need I remind you she created STINKERS such as "Secret to My Excess", and "Lesson Zero", and some really forgettable yawns like "Ticket Master" and "The best night ever" honestly, "Look before you sleep" and " A dog and a pony show" kind of suck to... But I have episodes I LOOOVE from every season and some I hate, just like any musicians album, not every ounce of content can be perfection or mimic the glory of a seperate tune, just like episodes all have to have original context, creating new cartoons after development, I actually liked when the newer writers mocked the repetition in Fluttershy... Faust wrote some great villain arch's, but I'll tell you what, after enough time passed to make a concrete comparison, Nightmare Moon was NOT one of them, she came back to Equestria with dark alicorn magic after being trapped for a thousand years, and her plan was to run away into the middle of Everfree Forest from ponies that literally just met each other like ten minutes ago, use some crappy illusions to trick them, and then ultimately get rainbow zapped by characters that have seen 0 character progression, oy to turn around and cry about it then be given the second highest seat in Equestria? Umm wut? She is better than Sombra... That's what I can say for her... But yeah Luna was always underwhelming despite her elegant design, I can really get more into that later on... And I have unique lengthy insights about Starlight's triumphs as a reform character, people just wanted Sunset Shimmer and even more than that they wanted a reason to complain, needed a pony to blame for the dwindling potential of plotlines and washed up themes for characters who now HAVE seen 5 and a half seasons of character progression... They had a harder job, it's really that simple, but yes I do think they pandered to the fandom to much... but Starlight wasn't exactly an outright example of this, as it made more sense for her to move in so Twilight could slowly ascend to the positions she was meant to after all of her character progression, Sunset was never going to work, she was a literal stranger to the ponies of Equestria and the mane 6, she had her own friendships and personal Dynamics to work out in the EQG world... But honestly we all knew for a long time Twilight would be the successor, and great things were expected of her, it was time for us to elevate her to giving friendship lessons rather than learning, and Starlight really is a gem in my eyes, I can give you a comprehensive list explaining why Twilight was so interested in Starlight but these reasons should be obvious in my eyes...

[flutterJackdash 218]

No point leaving the post I had here up, and I can't delete my own posts. So, this'll have to do.

[Castle Bleck 19,359]

On 2022-10-15 at 8:17 PM, Props ValRoa said:

I hated what they did with Sombra in the later seasons,

Same.

On 2022-10-15 at 8:17 PM, Props ValRoa said:

making him have a high pitched voice,

I blame the writers/directors, not the actor, for that one.

Alvin Sanders used to be Cybron (Skysurfer Strike Force). So there's proof he can sound intimidating.

On 2022-10-15 at 8:17 PM, Props ValRoa said:

no personality,

Actually, his new self had plenty of it. Problem is, it was exactly the wrong kind.

"Quality… over quantity… That's our lesson here." - Angry Video Game Nerd

On 2022-10-15 at 8:17 PM, Props ValRoa said:

and shamelessly killing him off towards the end of the show.

Agreed. That sums-up my problem with his new self:

They pulled a Star Wars Legends on his Comic depth/lore, and rewrote him as some cackling clown… because the other villains needed a crash-test dummy.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Even Evil Has Standards

[ZiggWheelsManning 10,295]

2 hours ago, Spook Conundrum said:

I'll create my"comprehensive list" later and cherry pick the good from the bad, but honestly, some people's "Faust goggles" are on so tight they aren't getting any oxygen to their brain, yes she is the master craft, and she made some of the greatest episodes of this show, but need I remind you she created STINKERS such as "Secret to My Excess", and "Lesson Zero", and some really forgettable yawns like "Ticket Master" and "The best night ever" honestly, "Look before you sleep" and " A dog and a pony show" kind of suck to... But I have episodes I LOOOVE from every season and some I hate, just like any musicians album, not every ounce of content can be perfection or mimic the glory of a seperate tune, just like episodes all have to have original context, creating new cartoons after development, I actually liked when the newer writers mocked the repetition in Fluttershy... Faust wrote some great villain arch's, but I'll tell you what, after enough time passed to make a concrete comparison, Nightmare Moon was NOT one of them, she came back to Equestria with dark alicorn magic after being trapped for a thousand years, and her plan was to run away into the middle of Everfree Forest from ponies that literally just met each other like ten minutes ago, use some crappy illusions to trick them, and then ultimately get rainbow zapped by characters that have seen 0 character progression, oy to turn around and cry about it then be given the second highest seat in Equestria? Umm wut? She is better than Sombra... That's what I can say for her... But yeah Luna was always underwhelming despite her elegant design, I can really get more into that later on... And I have unique lengthy insights about Starlight's triumphs as a reform character, people just wanted Sunset Shimmer and even more than that they wanted a reason to complain, needed a pony to blame for the dwindling potential of plotlines and washed up themes for characters who now HAVE seen 5 and a half seasons of character progression... They had a harder job, it's really that simple, but yes I do think they pandered to the fandom to much... but Starlight wasn't exactly an outright example of this, as it made more sense for her to move in so Twilight could slowly ascend to the positions she was meant to after all of her character progression, Sunset was never going to work, she was a literal stranger to the ponies of Equestria and the mane 6, she had her own friendships and personal Dynamics to work out in the EQG world... But honestly we all knew for a long time Twilight would be the successor, and great things were expected of her, it was time for us to elevate her to giving friendship lessons rather than learning, and Starlight really is a gem in my eyes, I can give you a comprehensive list explaining why Twilight was so interested in Starlight but these reasons should be obvious in my eyes...

You clearly have lots to say about Starlight  

[J.J 923]

8 minutes ago, ZiggWheelsManning said:

You clearly have lots to say about Starlight  

Oh dude Ive been a Starlight champion for years, I'd probably get in a fist fight over Starlight Ngl, xD yeah, I have paragraphs beyond paragraphs "polluting" these forums alone xD when I see a rational mind prevailing on YouTube, I usually regale them with my input, but I attacked someone named "Shadydoorags" on YouTube for making a redundant video about her xD I was just years late lmao, but yeah people in this fandom, when they are seriously wrong, it's USUALLY about Starlight...  

Watch THESE if you ever get the "time". There's a few others, I usually leave walls of texts on anything Starlight related, if there is a hill for Starlight lovers to die on, that is where you will find me when this is said and done. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Spook Conundrum

[Lone Traveler 91]

@Spook Conundrum I am actually a Starlight fan in spite of my dislike for her initial redemption. One of my main issues with Season 6 and 7 was that the show did not feature her more and develop her better. To Where and Back Again is one of favorite episodes of the entire show because it portrayed and used her so well, and she had such a great dynamic with Discord and Trixie.

[Misty Shadow 7,867]

I've never had Faust goggles nor the belief that I decide what's canon. The first two seasons of the show were never that great to me, I always liked Seasons 4-5 better. I can at least agree with preferring the Meghan McCarthy era...but Josh Haber is SO overhated, and I'm honestly more tired of him being the whipping boy to blame for why "FiM went downhill" than I'm tired of Jim Miller being the whipping boy to blame for that. He's a fine writer who wrote one of my favorite episodes, The Cutie Re-Mark, co-wrote Stranger Than Fan Fiction and The Fault in Our Cutie Marks, two of the best Season 6 episodes, co-wrote Uncommon Bond, a stellar Season 7 episode, and co-wrote the script for Sparkle's Seven, a fan favorite episode. FiM has always been produced by a team of people, not just one or two people. The "screw the writers except for the lady writers, I only trust them" mentality I've seen is juvenile too. Even though I enjoy some of the more disliked, controversial episodes of Seasons 8-9 like Non-Compete Clause, A Matter of Principals, The Beginning of the End, and A Trivial Pursuit...they were all written by women and we have a lady writer who wrote for Seasons 8-9 working on G5 now, which G4 loyalists still hung up on their contempt for FiM's final seasons despise. I have nothing other than respect for the lady writers and I support the work Gillian Berrow's done on G5, I'm just addressing a fact. 

My "quality guide" for FiM is simple, I appreciate the first two seasons for getting me into the show, Season 3 was something I appreciated more when I re-watched it, Seasons 4-5 were my favorite seasons, Seasons 6-7 weren't as good, but still really good, and Seasons 8-9 were mostly good despite a few things I didn't care for. Regardless, I've moved on from those things I didn't care for and I'm not going to undermine others and their work by obsessing over how things would've been if I was in their shoes because I'm not them. I just take pony for what it is. 

Edited October 16, 2022 by CloudMistDragon
Minor sentence rewording.

[Lone Traveler 91]

44 minutes ago, CloudMistDragon said:

I've never had Faust goggles nor the belief that I decide what's canon. The first two seasons of the show were never that great to me, I always liked Seasons 4-5 better. I can at least agree with preferring the Meghan McCarthy era...but Josh Haber is SO overhated, and I'm honestly more tired of him being the whipping boy to blame for why "FiM went downhill" than I'm tired of Jim Miller being the whipping boy to blame for that. He's a fine writer who wrote one of my favorite episodes, The Cutie Re-Mark, co-wrote Stranger Than Fan Fiction and The Fault in Our Cutie Marks, two of the best Season 6 episodes, co-wrote Uncommon Bond, a stellar Season 7 episode, and co-wrote the script for Sparkle's Seven, a fan favorite episode. FiM has always been produced by a team of people, not just one or two people. The "screw the writers except for the lady writers, I only trust them" mentality I've seen is juvenile too. Even though I enjoy some of the more disliked, controversial episodes of Seasons 8-9 like Non-Compete Clause, A Matter of Principals, The Beginning of the End, and A Trivial Pursuit...they were all written by women and we have a lady writer who wrote for Seasons 8-9 working on G5 now, which G4 loyalists still hung up on their contempt for FiM's final seasons despise. I only have respect for the lady writers and I support the work Gillian Berrow's done on G5, I'm just addressing a fact. 

My "quality guide" for FiM is simple, I appreciate the first two seasons for getting me into the show, Season 3 was something I appreciated more when I re-watched it, Seasons 4-5 were my favorite seasons, Seasons 6-7 weren't as good, but still really good, and Seasons 8-9 were mostly good despite a few things I didn't care for. Regardless, I've moved on from those things I didn't care for and I'm not going to undermine others and their work by obsessing over how things would've been if I was in their shoes because I'm not them. I just take pony for what it is. 

I don't entirely blame Haber purely for the decline, he was one of many people working on Seasons 6-9. I referred to it as the "Haber Era" because he was the showrunner and essentially the face of it. In the interest of fairness, I'll list some Haber written episodes that I actually really enjoyed:

Stranger Than Fanfiction: Hilarious, great moral, really fun and meta in a good way.

To Where and Back Again: Starlight, Trixie, Thorax, and Discord had a very fun dynamic, and there was an interesting story and the changelings were really cool. Starlight gets to grow and truly redeem herself here, I'd argue its the best use of her in the entire show.

Shadow Play: Very fun episode with some cool lore.

Molt Down: Solid episode for Spike.

Sparkle's Seven: Perfect use of every character, hillarious, fun, and heartwarming.

Common Ground: Really compelling and mature conflict.

The Last Problem: In spite of all my misgivings about season 9, this was a pretty solid finale overall that was genuinely emotional.

[Megas 27,625]

For me personally, S1-5, the first half of S7 and the movie are the only things that matter to me and the show ended after Rainbow Roadtrip as far as I'm concerned

On 2022-10-15 at 9:17 PM, Lone Traveler said:

The "screw the writers except for the lady writers, I only trust them" mentality I've seen is juvenile too. Even though I enjoy some of the more disliked, controversial episodes of Seasons 8-9 like Non-Compete Clause, A Matter of Principals, The Beginning of the End, and A Trivial Pursuit...they were all written by women and we have a lady writer who wrote for Seasons 8-9 working on G5 now, which G4 loyalists still hung up on their contempt for FiM's final seasons despise. I only have respect for the lady writers and I support the work Gillian Berrow's done on G5, I'm just addressing a fact. 

"Lady Writers" always referred to the writing duo of Johanna Lewis and Kristine Songco, rather than referring to the show's literal female writing staff

Edited October 18, 2022 by Megas

[Gale Wind 82]

On 2022-10-15 at 8:12 PM, Castle Bleck said:

Same.

I blame the writers/directors, not the actor, for that one.

Alvin Sanders used to be Cybron (Skysurfer Strike Force). So there's proof he can sound intimidating.

Actually, his new self had plenty of it. Problem is, it was exactly the wrong kind.

"Quality… over quantity… That's our lesson here." - Angry Video Game Nerd

Agreed. That sums-up my problem with his new self:

They pulled a Star Wars Legends on his Comic depth/lore, and rewrote him as some cackling clown… because the other villains needed a crash-test dummy.

If you mean Palpatine and Dark Empire, that’s still better than anything from Disney. I’m a huge Legends fan.

[Minterwute 60]

perhaps a somewhat unpopular opinion, but i wasn't really a fan of the format of season 4 at all, and many of the episodes felt like misses for me
season 3 was no less rife with problems, particularly the finale; the whole season felt rushed and awkwardly condensed

[Whirlwind 1,057]

It takes a lot for me to flat out dislike certain episodes/seasons cause it's it's freaking Friendship is magic 
But I certainly agree that the Haber Transition (season 6) was one of the first seasons where I sort of jumped across episodes throughout the 
season, then watched them all after the fact. I thought there wasn't anything that really blew me away in terms of impact and excitement with a few exceptions here and there
(MLP Movie, The Perfect Pear, and The Times They Are A Changeling are some prime examples). 
Not to discourage the direction, but all the big moments in the show happened in the first 5 seasons. Still would consider watching all though