Starlight Glimmer - How NOT to write a character

[Ring Team 119]

10 hours ago, GodlyWolf82 said:

Simple and to the point. No Mary sues or Gary stues. Don't be afraid to give them flaws.

No I didn't take the time to read because DEAR LORD!!!

While I do appreciate that you comment, I don't think the conclusion should be summarized in just three words, "no mary sues". I think it would devolve into the "too much water" expression from IGN (which was a silly way to phrase a good solid criticsm of the Pokemon Ruby/Saphire game, which was that there are too many water towns and water type pokemons and you can easily counter them with electric type pokemons, I had to explain it because not many people know this, myself included before I checked the origins of that meme).

I think the problems are obvious:

1. Starlight's actions and lack of consequences conflict with the show's focus on the value of friendship.

2. Her refusal to change leads to a main character who's not a good role model for kids in a TV show aimed at children.

3. Her actions invalidate her redemption arc and the ending of Cutie Re-mark, where we saw Starlight willing to change for the better.

4. She does not prop up novelty or new directions for the show. Friendship is Magic already presented many secondary characters and many themes many times.

5. Enables bad habits like gatekeeping, namecalling and inciting controversy, ironically enough in a show about love and tolerance.

6. She further divided the fanbase, restricting the groth of the show.

[Misty Shadow 7,088]

On 2023-07-04 at 8:23 AM, Megas said:

Lily Peet is literally the last who should get to have a say on morality. And using one of the most vindictive, manipulative and abusive people in the fandom to boost your argument isn’t doing it any favors 

Lily Peet also wrote...foalcon.  And instead of genuinely apologizing for it, she's tried to cover it up with weaseling while also trying to grandstand as some kind of warrior fighting against child predators. NEVER. USE. LILY PEET. TO BACK UP YOUR ARGUMENTS. 

[Props Valroa 26,051]

13 hours ago, Ring Team said:

While I do appreciate that you comment, I don't think the conclusion should be summarized in just three words, "no mary sues". I think it would devolve into the "too much water" expression from IGN (which was a silly way to phrase a good solid criticsm of the Pokemon Ruby/Saphire game, which was that there are too many water towns and water type pokemons and you can easily counter them with electric type pokemons, I had to explain it because not many people know this, myself included before I checked the origins of that meme).

I think the problems are obvious:

1. Starlight's actions and lack of consequences conflict with the show's focus on the value of friendship.

2. Her refusal to change leads to a main character who's not a good role model for kids in a TV show aimed at children.

3. Her actions invalidate her redemption arc and the ending of Cutie Re-mark, where we saw Starlight willing to change for the better.

4. She does not prop up novelty or new directions for the show. Friendship is Magic already presented many secondary characters and many themes many times.

5. Enables bad habits like gatekeeping, namecalling and inciting controversy, ironically enough in a show about love and tolerance.

6. She further divided the fanbase, restricting the groth of the show.

I largely agree with this. My problem was that her reformation was rushed and the characters were quick to forgive her. She was a literal psychopath who mind enslaved an entire village and got off seemingly scot free for it. 

[GodlyWolf 1,678]

13 hours ago, Ring Team said:

While I do appreciate that you comment, I don't think the conclusion should be summarized in just three words, "no mary sues". I think it would devolve into the "too much water" expression from IGN (which was a silly way to phrase a good solid criticsm of the Pokemon Ruby/Saphire game, which was that there are too many water towns and water type pokemons and you can easily counter them with electric type pokemons, I had to explain it because not many people know this, myself included before I checked the origins of that meme).

I think the problems are obvious:

1. Starlight's actions and lack of consequences conflict with the show's focus on the value of friendship.

2. Her refusal to change leads to a main character who's not a good role model for kids in a TV show aimed at children.

3. Her actions invalidate her redemption arc and the ending of Cutie Re-mark, where we saw Starlight willing to change for the better.

4. She does not prop up novelty or new directions for the show. Friendship is Magic already presented many secondary characters and many themes many times.

5. Enables bad habits like gatekeeping, namecalling and inciting controversy, ironically enough in a show about love and tolerance.

6. She further divided the fanbase, restricting the groth of the show.

I do apologize lol. I was tired when I wrote that. I overlooked the part where it said starlight glimmer and I defaulted to fanfic oc characters. That was my bad honesty.

[Ring Team 119]

9 hours ago, GodlyWolf82 said:

I do apologize lol. I was tired when I wrote that. I overlooked the part where it said starlight glimmer and I defaulted to fanfic oc characters. That was my bad honesty.

It's okay, don't think about that. But keep in mind that saying "Mary Sue" and call it a day is not a good way to make a solid argument. You have to build your argument with honest statements and facts and illustrate it with clear examples.

For future reference: Don't fall into the trap of calling something "Mary Sue", "agenda" and/or "Woke" to make an argument. If you're saying these words, they could hurt your opinion, they could make you sound like a parrot who repeats non-contextual phrases just because a vocal minority happened to do the same thing.

[Evil Pink One 13,013]

On 2023-09-02 at 5:48 PM, Ring Team said:

While I do appreciate that you comment, I don't think the conclusion should be summarized in just three words, "no mary sues". I think it would devolve into the "too much water" expression from IGN (which was a silly way to phrase a good solid criticsm of the Pokemon Ruby/Saphire game, which was that there are too many water towns and water type pokemons and you can easily counter them with electric type pokemons, I had to explain it because not many people know this, myself included before I checked the origins of that meme).

I think the problems are obvious:

1. Starlight's actions and lack of consequences conflict with the show's focus on the value of friendship.

2. Her refusal to change leads to a main character who's not a good role model for kids in a TV show aimed at children.

3. Her actions invalidate her redemption arc and the ending of Cutie Re-mark, where we saw Starlight willing to change for the better.

4. She does not prop up novelty or new directions for the show. Friendship is Magic already presented many secondary characters and many themes many times.

5. Enables bad habits like gatekeeping, namecalling and inciting controversy, ironically enough in a show about love and tolerance.

6. She further divided the fanbase, restricting the groth of the show.

1. I think the reason for that is starlight was not defeated and it was more of a truce. I mean if i was twilight i wouldnt make an enemy out of Starlight. So in exchange, Id give her special treatment.

2......?

3.....?

4. Well starlight is weirdly enough.... not a secondary character? And also not a main character.... weird.

5. ...yeah I actually like starlight for that.

6.the fanbase was a mess to begin with.

Might i add that it was the fanbase was the reason why FIM ended.

 

[Misty Shadow 7,088]

22 hours ago, StrawberryMilk Simp said:

Might i add that it was the fanbase was the reason why FIM ended.

Although I completely understand having issues with the fandom, they are not the reason why FiM ended. Jim Miller could not affirm why the show ended as Hasbro wasn't obligated to give the staff a reason. His theory on why it ended is something he discussed in an interview, believing it's because Hasbro saw a downward trend in G4 interest, supported by official Hasbro documents commenting on the decline of MLP's sales during the time of its end. 

[Ring Team 119]

On 2023-09-04 at 2:29 PM, StrawberryMilk Simp said:

1. I think the reason for that is starlight was not defeated and it was more of a truce. I mean if i was twilight i wouldnt make an enemy out of Starlight. So in exchange, Id give her special treatment.

2......?

3.....?

4. Well starlight is weirdly enough.... not a secondary character? And also not a main character.... weird.

5. ...yeah I actually like starlight for that.

6.the fanbase was a mess to begin with.

Might i add that it was the fanbase was the reason why FIM ended.

I've heard this reason a lot, that Starlight is just too powerful to be stopped. But by that logic, films like Infinity War or Endgame (stories where a clear antagonist is presented) should end with Iron Man offering Thanos friendship. And I don't think it's a reasonable idea. On top of that, do you really want to teach little kids to offer friendship to the pettiest people they've met? I can't imagine, say, a victim of bullying saying "maybe I'll try to make him a friend of mine who's been harrassing me for 2 years". It's not a good idea, especially when the rest of the villains in Friendship is Magic don't get the same treatment (I'm not saying they deserve a chance in the show, I'm saying this was an exceptional privilege only offered to Starlight and no one else).

I think most, if not all, the features that Starlight had were symptoms of bigger problems that affected the show and some of their characters, such as the flanderization and the status-quo. For a TV show that was in the air for 9 years, most of the characters go back to square one, forcing the writers to find alternatives to tell stories instead of, you know, presenting continuity to tell refreshing stories like Steven Universe or The Owl House did. In the case of Starlight, her character features lead her to harm other characters in drastic ways, like in Every little thing she does, Road to friendship and Uncommon Bond, things that a normal person wouldn't see as a good thing.

In addition to that, by the time the season 5 was in the air, the team was working not only in the Equestria Girls movies, but also in the shorts. And some years later they started to work on a EG show. And with over so many projects at the same time like Friendship is Magic, the EG movies (which they released one every year from 2013 to 2016), the EG shorts and the EG TV show, most writers were forced to make questionable decisions. And before someone says it, I'm not saying that "Equestria Girls is the one to blame", I'm saying that the writers and the animation team had literally so many projects in hand.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Ring Team

[Evil Pink One 13,013]

6 hours ago, Ring Team said:

top of that, do you really want to teach little kids to offer friendship to the pettiest people they've met? I can't imagine, say, a victim of bullying saying "maybe I'll try to make him a friend of mine who's been harrassing me for 2 years". It's not a good idea, especially when the rest of the villains in Friendship is Magic don't get the same treatment (I'm not saying they deserve a chance in the show, I'm saying this was an exceptional privilege only offered to Starlight and no one else).

Actually.... yes... to prepare them for the future.. especially if you are weak. You find ways to defeat them. Like what twilight did.offer friendship or truce. Because when she tried to fight her... it was a tie and a never ending cycle.

Maybe that was the moral of the story.

Plus using Thanatos as your example is just... so out there... which i actually like.

Would you like to join my troll army?

Sorry thanos not thanatos.

6 hours ago, Ring Team said:

not saying they deserve a chance in the show, I'm saying this was an exceptional privilege only offered to Starlight and no one else

Discord.... trixie....nightmare moon. Who else....flim and flam... those two should've gotten a death penalty.

And if you say that then its justifiable that cozy glow was sent to hell....

Maybe thats the message they wanted to show us about cozy glow.

If you think that starlight doesnt deserve to be redempted... then lets put x

Cozy glow into hell! Hahahaha

6 hours ago, Ring Team said:

the case of Starlight, her character features lead her to harm other characters in drastic ways, like in Every little thing she does, Road to friendship and Uncommon Bond, things that a normal person wouldn't see as a good thing.

Like pinky pie, rainbowdash, and twilight?

6 hours ago, Ring Team said:

addition to that, by the time the season 5 was in the air, the team was working not only in the Equestria Girls movies, but also in the shorts. And some years later they started to work on a EG show. And with over so many projects at the same time like Friendship is Magic, the EG movies (which they released one every year from 2013 to 2016), the EG shorts and the EG TV show, most writers were forced to make questionable decisions. And before someone says it, I'm not saying that "Equestria Girls is the one to blame", I'm saying that the writers and the animation team had literally so many projects in hand

You know i watched the whole season of mlp without the communities tampering and i loved it.

Now that I've met the community and heard their strife and wows. Im starting to not enjoy some of the episodes.

Hence fandom ruins the show.

I also enjoyed she ra and voltron.... then the community kinda have to ruin it.