gaming [Gaming] The Team Fortress 2 Thread

[FirestormCAN 246]

Damn Demomans, they're always ruining my game. 

 

Sticky spawn camper.

Couldn't ya see the bloody bombs? >

 

But yeah, I feel your pain. Spawn campers really mess up the flow of the game. It's one thing to head back to the enemy spawn and take out the teleporter, but it's another to keep the enemy from leaving their base and attempting to complete their objective. Show some sportmanship, fellas.

[Anneal 2,197]

Couldn't ya see the bloody bombs? >

 

But yeah, I feel your pain. Spawn campers really mess up the flow of the game. It's one thing to head back to the enemy spawn and take out the teleporter, but it's another to keep the enemy from leaving their base and attempting to complete their objective. Show some sportmanship, fellas.

Well, I was at 2fort, trying my new Degreaser - Detonator - Axtinguisher setup, except I couldn't get out because of a Demoman blocking the exit. I told him to leave after several minutes passed, he refused, and I just decided to call a Medic to uber me and burn him to death.

 

A bit too late, since the enemy team already captured four flags by the time we killed the Demoman.

 

Remind me to never go on a 2fort server. Well and Doublecross is ten times better.

[FirestormCAN 246]

 

Remind me to use the bear claws and steak sandvich sometime.

[Nerdy Luigi 2,065]

Demoknighting is fun. I got 16 heads one time on Hightower, I was trolololing all the way to the enemy spawn. Soarin' at the speed of sound. (Cross-reference, MLP and Sonic.)

 

The scouts always get me EVERY TIME. I have a lot of loadouts strong against most classes, EXCEPT scouts, and pyros but they don't cause me problems because I'm good enough to find a way around them.

 

I use my sniper when I can, though. I'm a good sniper. I am one of the best at no-scoping :3.

 

Remind me to use the bear claws and steak sandvich sometime.

Interesting. That should be tenth class. It would be sort of overpowered, though.

[Lumen 106]

Well, I was at 2fort, trying my new Degreaser - Detonator - Axtinguisher setup, except I couldn't get out because of a Demoman blocking the exit. I told him to leave after several minutes passed, he refused, and I just decided to call a Medic to uber me and burn him to death.

 

A bit too late, since the enemy team already captured four flags by the time we killed the Demoman.

 

Remind me to never go on a 2fort server. Well and Doublecross is ten times better.

 

How was he able to keep an entire team in the spawn? How did he have enough ammo? Why did no one use the Dead Ringer to get behind him to kill him? That entire situation seems a bit weird to me..

[Anneal 2,197]

How was he able to keep an entire team in the spawn? How did he have enough ammo? Why did no one use the Dead Ringer to get behind him to kill him? That entire situation seems a bit weird to me..

A Medic and possibly another Demo was behind that (but a guy named RedLeader was doing most of the killing), and yes, most of the team was stuck. I don't know how the hell he has so much ammo, but basically the only few ways were to wait for an uber or wait until you respawn at the other spawn.

[\/ 651]

I am an amazing suicide run scout, and I make a fairly bad spy. So, yeah. I'm the worst good TF2 player there is.

[Katana 298]

Well, I was at 2fort, trying my new Degreaser - Detonator - Axtinguisher setup, except I couldn't get out because of a Demoman blocking the exit. I told him to leave after several minutes passed, he refused, and I just decided to call a Medic to uber me and burn him to death.

 

A bit too late, since the enemy team already captured four flags by the time we killed the Demoman.

 

Remind me to never go on a 2fort server. Well and Doublecross is ten times better.

Spawncampers are always frustrating and take a bit of coordination.

Ultimately, for me, anytime the enemy team is overextending and ignoring the objectives, I tend to do this:

Obviously, the video kind of idealizes it, and the big challenge is getting away from the other team. My favorite tools for this are the BONK energy drink, and Dead Ringer. BONK might even help you kill a demoman, because it nearly guarantees you to get in close - try holding down the fire button as it runs out, so that you'll fire your first shot the instant invulnerability wears off.

 

But, what makes it SO creamy-sweet if you can pull it off is that for the enemy team, being in the wrong place (at the opposing spawn) is an even WORSE situation than being dead; they're going to waste a lot of time just getting to you, and then they have to kill you.

 

Also, a pretty unusual "supar-pro" tip: On maps that have two spawn rooms, like 2fort and badwater (the red team sometimes spawns on the first floor) you can try to teleport yourself to another spawn room by changing classes; so if I'm a heavy, and want to spawn in the other spawn room, I just press 'comma, 2, comma, 5' until I'm where I want to be.

 

I had a pretty sweet moment yesterday, when I was defending a point as Demoman, saw a spy shimmer while walking over my stickies. I set them off, and I guess he had the dead ringer because he survived while getting blown straight upwards into the air. I took out my grenade launcher, timed it just right, and shot at him as he came down, hitting him in midair.

[Anneal 2,197]

I'm away from that now, since before I wasn't really thinking well when I was kind of enraged

 

And I tried chain uber today. It's technically two Medics uber-charging each other; as one Medic charges the other, the other Medic uses his Ubersaw to kill people and refill his uber. Repeat.

 

It's actually very effective, though the only thing you have to be alert is Pyros.

[Katana 298]

Uber-chaining is awesome when it works. One of those things that the enemies have to be very aware of to react to.

 

And yet, there are still people who fire their minigun all-cylinders on an ubercharged enemy...

[Suitaloo 743]

Uber-chaining is awesome when it works. One of those things that the enemies have to be very aware of to react to.

 

And yet, there are still people who fire their minigun all-cylinders on an ubercharged enemy...

 

Firing a hitscan weapon (other than the FaN MAYBE) at an ubered enemy is kind of stupid, but explosive weapons are still viable, especially the loose cannon to send them flying away and stopping the uber push. It's why I tend to use the LC competitively, I use stickies primarily as a demoman anyways, so the cannon is just a weapon to get rid of ubers.

[Anneal 2,197]

And yet, there are still people who fire their minigun all-cylinders on an ubercharged enemy...

 

Firing a hitscan weapon (other than the FaN MAYBE) at an ubered enemy is kind of stupid, but explosive weapons are still viable, especially the loose cannon to send them flying away and stopping the uber push. It's why I tend to use the LC competitively, I use stickies primarily as a demoman anyways, so the cannon is just a weapon to get rid of ubers.

 

Sentry guns are somewhat effective on knocking back ubered enemies, though they can easily be destroyed if an ubered Medic just stands in front of the sentry gun and the healed uber target just destroys it. 

 

And like I said, Pyro's flamethrower is somewhat effective in this case with the air blast. 

[\/ 651]

If only someone could gift me some steam money... then I would have the backpack space and everything. I really need to get a job. Then I can spend some money on stuff.

[Anneal 2,197]

I was playing some payload maps today, and what I found a bit humorous is how some Soldiers never bother to use their secondary, which makes it pretty easy to kill them by just deflecting the rockets right back at them, since rocket projectiles have a predictable trajectory and speed (on the other hand, Direct Hit rockets can be harder to blast).

 

Soldiers have a wide array of secondary guns: Bison, Reserve Shooter, and the stock Shotgun. Just use your secondary for once. It could save your life.

 

Sentry rockets are not necessarily hard to deflect as well, but the machine gun has devastating knockback, so usually Pyros have to time it well and be accurate.

 

Huntsman arrows are harder, since their speed is significantly faster than a rocket projectile. Moreover, the quickness of the projectile can make it difficult for accurate aiming.

 

Demoman bombs are also hard, since they have a large arc and Pyros have to do it in midair to maintain momentum. It might be better to just blast it away from your teammates than to attempt to kill someone with it.

 

Other projectiles are intermediate in difficulty, but practically useless. Deflecting flares are a waste of time since you're generally going to fight the Pyro. Sandman baseballs and Wrap Assassin ornaments are a waste of ammo for their relatively small damage (and the difficult of landing a stun or bleed effect). Flying Guillotines have an arc and for the Pyro, is difficult to blast back.

 

And there are some weapons I don't really like in TF2:

 

 

- Vita Saw. While losing ten health might not be a big deal, you don't really need that small sliver of ubercharge when you can easily charge it up by healing someone. Also, you shouldn't need the head start in the first place, because Medics should try to stay away from the battlefield while healing fellow players.

- Sharpened Volcano Fragment. Why need a melee weapon that sets people on fire when the Flamethrower can do that?

- Cozy Camper. You don't need health regen when a Medic can heal you or when you can just grab a health pack? Plus, it only works when you're standing still, which usually makes you an easy sniper target.

- Dalokhs Bar. Chances are, there's going to be a Medic on your team healing you, and the fact that you can't throw it nor do you get more over heal makes it terrible. The only good I see in this is when your team has no Medic and you just need that extra health to get by (there should be a Medic in the team to ease problems, anyway).

- Manntreads. Difficult to use and it doesn't do as much damage as you think if you DO land on an enemy. I prefer the Market Gardener over this, because it's just plain hard to even step on an enemy's head, especially without a rocket jumper.

- Pain Train. Useless on ctf, and the extra cap rate isn't worth the damage decrease. A Scout is just as effective for capping points or pushing carts, and the max cap rate only stacks to 4, or 3 for payload (anything more than that will not increase speed). This usually means that two or three members should be pushing the cart or capping points, Scout included. As a Soldier or Demoman, you have better stuff to do than double your cap rate.

- Backburner. No crits unless on back, and your airblast costs 50 ammo. The Pyro's airblast is useful for your team, and even the Phlogisnator has you extinguishing teammates. Using a weapon that's going to use up four airblasts at most is a bad weapon. Basically the weapon used by W + M1(?) Pyros, despite it needing you to ambush and launch surprise attacks.

- Short Circuit. Probably useful for blocking rocket projectiles, but it uses up an extravagant amount of metal, has limited range, and relatively little damage. The Pistol would be a better combat weapon.

 

 

[Lumen 106]

I use the gunboats as my soldier secondary since the mobility you get from rocket jumping is really helpful. When a pyros try to airblast my rockets, I just throw more and more rockets at them. They'll make a mistake sooner or later.

The main thing that's keeping me away from airblasting sentry rockets is the damage of the machine guns. By the time the rockets are in your range, you're seriously hurt.

[Anneal 2,197]

I use the gunboats as my soldier secondary since the mobility you get from rocket jumping is really helpful. When a pyros try to airblast my rockets, I just throw more and more rockets at them. They'll make a mistake sooner or later.

The main thing that's keeping me away from airblasting sentry rockets is the damage of the machine guns. By the time the rockets are in your range, you're seriously hurt.

I can time rockets well mostly because Soldiers sometimes have a predictable pattern: they instantly throw their second rocket right after their first. That's approximately a one second time span. If they reload or stop, I reroll the cycle.

 

The only difficult part for me is Direct Hit rockets, since it's possible for the air blast to not deflect the rocket in time or your reaction is just too short.

[Suitaloo 743]

- Vita Saw. While losing ten health might not be a big deal, you don't really need that small sliver of ubercharge when you can easily charge it up by healing someone. Also, you shouldn't need the head start in the first place, because Medics should try to stay away from the battlefield while healing fellow players.

- Pain Train. Useless on ctf, and the extra cap rate isn't worth the damage decrease. A Scout is just as effective for capping points or pushing carts, and the max cap rate only stacks to 4, or 3 for payload (anything more than that will not increase speed). This usually means that two or three members should be pushing the cart or capping points, Scout included. As a Soldier or Demoman, you have better stuff to do than double your cap rate.

- Backburner. No crits unless on back, and your airblast costs 50 ammo. The Pyro's airblast is useful for your team, and even the Phlogisnator has you extinguishing teammates. Using a weapon that's going to use up four airblasts at most is a bad weapon. Basically the weapon used by W + M1(?) Pyros, despite it needing you to ambush and launch surprise attacks.

- Short Circuit. Probably useful for blocking rocket projectiles, but it uses up an extravagant amount of metal, has limited range, and relatively little damage. The Pistol would be a better combat weapon.

 

Ok, here's why these items are bullshit:

 

There's a reason the Vita-saw is banned in competitive TF2. That "small sliver" of ubercharge makes a world of difference. It could mean having a kritz before your enemy and being able to make them drop and being able to push in. The medics were pretty much required to run vita-saw because of how big of an advantage it is.

 

Pain train has no use on CTF, correct, it also has no use on RED on A/D and payload, but on BLU and 5cp maps? It allows the soldier or demoman to basically become an airborne and tankier scout. The %10 bullet vulnerability doesn't matter on demo because you get fucked by scouts already anyway, and on soldier if you can airshot or aim where the scout will land, you can take care of them easily.

 

Backburner is useful for what the pyro was originally designed as. An ambush class. Also, phlog can't extinguish people unless you have the manmelter, and then it's not the phlog, it's the manmelter.

 

Short circuit, pre-buff I would have agreed with you. The firing speed was too slow and the metal usage was too high. Post-buff it was OP. You could completely shut down demomen and soldiers who didn't have a shotgun. Now, post-balance, it's perfect. You can guard yourself from multiple projectiles, but demos and soldiers can't be killed by the short circuit as easily.

[Anneal 2,197]

Ok, here's why these items are bullshit:

 

There's a reason the Vita-saw is banned in competitive TF2. That "small sliver" of ubercharge makes a world of difference. It could mean having a kritz before your enemy and being able to make them drop and being able to push in. The medics were pretty much required to run vita-saw because of how big of an advantage it is.

 

Pain train has no use on CTF, correct, it also has no use on RED on A/D and payload, but on BLU and 5cp maps? It allows the soldier or demoman to basically become an airborne and tankier scout. The %10 bullet vulnerability doesn't matter on demo because you get fucked by scouts already anyway, and on soldier if you can airshot or aim where the scout will land, you can take care of them easily.

 

Backburner is useful for what the pyro was originally designed as. An ambush class. Also, phlog can't extinguish people unless you have the manmelter, and then it's not the phlog, it's the manmelter.

 

Short circuit, pre-buff I would have agreed with you. The firing speed was too slow and the metal usage was too high. Post-buff it was OP. You could completely shut down demomen and soldiers who didn't have a shotgun. Now, post-balance, it's perfect. You can guard yourself from multiple projectiles, but demos and soldiers can't be killed by the short circuit as easily.

By the way, I didn't say that they were completely useless, they're just weapons I just dislike. You probably have different preferences since you're probably a competitive player, in contrast to me, who doesn't play a lot of competitive gaming.

 

While seconds do matter in competitive gaming, basically the short time you have to keep yourself in the lead makes it difficult. Getting 20% uber takes five to ten seconds depending on which Medi-gun you're using. That means you have less then a ten second lead, so if you're not healing or ubering anyone in that time span, the upside is completely averted, because chances are, the enemy Medic already has his uber ready too.

 

Only exception will be a Vaccinator setup, where you can almost immediately have a two second uber ready after reviving. Personally, I like to go with the Amputator and sometimes the Ubersaw, but I honestly won't use the Vita-saw. (In contrast, some TF2 players think that the Vita-saw is overpowered.)

 

Even if you're BLU in PL and A/D maps or playing KOTH or 5CP, the maximum cap rate is still 3 or 4, which means you only need at most four players to cap. After that, extra people on the point or cart is unnecessary, and players not standing on the point should be attacking the enemy using their mobility. While it's true the Pain Train can be of some use in when there's only a player or Scout standing on the point, anything more than that is unnecessary. There should be a Scout in a serious round, anyway.

 

Pyros should be helping their team by not only spy checking or ambushing and the such, but airblast serves some use at well. You basically can't airblast with the Backburner without using up a good deal of ammo. And while this could be player bias, it's sometimes used by incompetent W + M1 Pyros, despite being an ambush weapon.

 

It's a useful weapon, however, in MvM, where nobody really cares if you use your airblast or not.

 

And finally, using up 5 metal per shot is pretty much a lot. While it's quick and can potentially have a moderate amount of ammo (40 at the most), it doesn't go very far and have that promising damage like the Soldier's or Demoman's primary, or the range (for the Scout) and the capacity (for the Engineer) of a Pistol. Probably has some use when you're defending your buildings (as the Dispenser can refill your ammo quickly) from projectiles, but wasteful for other cases. Using that metal for your buildings will be far more useful.

[Nerdy Luigi 2,065]

I haven't played it a lot lately. I've been busy...

[Suitaloo 743]

Alright, but for the pain train and short circuit, you have a couple instances where you are incorrect. First of all: there is no limit on capping for capture points. There's only a max for the cart, which is 3. Payload really doesn't necessitate the pain train anyways because in that scenario, demo and soldier shouldn't be on the cart, that's the engi and scouts job, which brings me to my second point, the short circuit. When you have infinite metal right next to you, all you need to do is sit on the cart as an engi and you can't be taken off it by a demo or soldier. You'll likely only die to a sentry or sniper, because if your team is pushing with you, heavies and pyros won't be a huge issue.

[yayfluttershay 3]

Anybody want this shet + free secret saxton

[Anneal 2,197]

Alright, but for the pain train and short circuit, you have a couple instances where you are incorrect. First of all: there is no limit on capping for capture points. There's only a max for the cart, which is 3. Payload really doesn't necessitate the pain train anyways because in that scenario, demo and soldier shouldn't be on the cart, that's the engi and scouts job, which brings me to my second point, the short circuit. When you have infinite metal right next to you, all you need to do is sit on the cart as an engi and you can't be taken off it by a demo or soldier. You'll likely only die to a sentry or sniper, because if your team is pushing with you, heavies and pyros won't be a huge issue.

At the most the Pain Train is only somewhat useful for a regular Demoman (not so much for Demoknights, in that case you shouldn't even be using this) because the bullet vulnerability doesn't matter, while it does for the Soldier. Basically, that's literally like losing 10% of your health (assuming all damage taken are bullets), or in the Soldier's case, more or less 20 health. It does make a difference when players like Scouts are attacking you. Scouts can afford to shoot more liberally because with the "former" 200 health, it took about 3 close range shots (but sometimes 4 due to range or accuracy) successfully kill a Soldier, providing the Scout doesn't get blown to pieces first. Now with the Pain Train Soldier, he has about "180 health", which means the shots don't necessarily have to completely hit the target. With the regular Scattergun doing about 90 or so damage at point blank, Scouts can afford to miss some pellets.

 

That's just an example, since using high damage bullet weapons actually affects the bullet vulnerability. The only second one I can think of is the Shotgun for the Soldier, Pyro, Heavy, and Engineer (though skilled Soldiers barely use their shotgun unless the enemy is a Pyro, the Pyro usually won't use the Shotgun unless they're going for a Reserve Shooter + Flamethrower Airblast combo, Heavies will just use their Minigun anyway, and Engineers usually aren't too much of a problem as a person unless they're Combat Engies and use the Frontier Justice). Other weapons use fire rate to stack up their damage.

 

The Short Circuit becomes less effective as a pushing weapon in 5CP. First of all, most 5CP maps like Well or Granary don't have too much ammo boxes on the map, so it will be difficult to resupply on your Short Circuit in the case you do run out of metal. It would be a bit useful for defending, or if you manage to get a Dispenser running.

 

Anybody want this shet + free secret saxton

"Selling 50 Crates for 1 Refined"

Edited January 30, 2014 by Suri the Superior

[Suitaloo 743]

At the most the Pain Train is only somewhat useful for a regular Demoman (not so much for Demoknights, in that case you shouldn't even be using this) because the bullet vulnerability doesn't matter, while it does for the Soldier. Basically, that's literally like losing 10% of your health (assuming all damage taken are bullets), or in the Soldier's case, more or less 20 health. It does make a difference when players like Scouts are attacking you. Scouts can afford to shoot more liberally because with the "former" 200 health, it took about 3 close range shots (but sometimes 4 due to range or accuracy) successfully kill a Soldier, providing the Scout doesn't get blown to pieces first. Now with the Pain Train Soldier, he has about "180 health", which means the shots don't necessarily have to completely hit the target. With the regular Scattergun doing about 90 or so damage at point blank, Scouts can afford to miss some pellets.

 

That's just an example, since using high damage bullet weapons actually affects the bullet vulnerability. The only second one I can think of is the Shotgun for the Soldier, Pyro, Heavy, and Engineer (though skilled Soldiers barely use their shotgun unless the enemy is a Pyro, the Pyro usually won't use the Shotgun unless they're going for a Reserve Shooter + Flamethrower Airblast combo, Heavies will just use their Minigun anyway, and Engineers usually aren't too much of a problem as a person unless they're Combat Engies and use the Frontier Justice). Other weapons use fire rate to stack up their damage.

 

The Short Circuit becomes less effective as a pushing weapon in 5CP. First of all, most 5CP maps like Well or Granary don't have too much ammo boxes on the map, so it will be difficult to resupply on your Short Circuit in the case you do run out of metal. It would be a bit useful for defending, or if you manage to get a Dispenser running.

 

Actually, skilled soldiers use the shotgun all the time. The rocket launcher takes a while to reload, so they generally exhaust all the loaded rockets, then whip out the shotgun and finish off their target. And pyros also use the shotgun frequently, moreso against enemy pyros, but they also use them at mid range against targets that they can't get too close to due to something like a sentry.

 

I never said the short circuit was good for 5CP, I said it was good for payload and defense. Mostly due to the fact that there will be a dispenser or cart that acts like a dispenser around you %90 of the time.

[long gone 8,929]

So, Suitaloo, you ready for the 6s game tonight? I should be able to make it this time.

[Suitaloo 743]

So, Suitaloo, you ready for the 6s game tonight? I should be able to make it this time.

 

Yes, I'm totally ready. I'mma go play some MGE as well to get ready.