MLP:FiM Comic Book Series Discussion

[Metemponychosis 1,262]

@@Nuke87654,do you remember when I said that you were taking some details too  seriously and that the previous comic didn't give enough away so we could say the things you were saying about Celestia? Well, I take that back!

 

What is it about Celestia that makes writers just screw up anything they try to do with her?!

[Rarity Paige Belle 1,854]

Good god issue 19 SUCKED! Did Rarity write for this issue? It was just one big love story! By the way I brought cover B:

[Nuke87654 1,849]

@@Nuke87654,do you remember when I said that you were taking some details too seriously and that the previous comic didn't give enough away so we could say the things you were saying about Celestia? Well, I take that back!

 

What is it about Celestia that makes writers just screw up anything they try to do with her?!

I feel it's because people feel her character is boring because she doesn't have any flaws or characteristics that are relatable, thus they usually try to inject some sort of flaw in her only they end up going too far and making her a much worse character than when they started.

 

Personally, she's alot like Superman (who coincidentally Katie Cook doesn't like) in that her primary character is to be a person others aspire to be or make proud of for how virtuous, benevolent, caring, and loving she is to her people. While at the same time, DHX and Lauren Faust added a subtle edge to her character in that she had to spend 1000 years trying to save her sister from Nightmare Moon through sheer love for her and deal with the fact she had to banish her own sister away for the sake of ensuring her people's safety. This further defines her character that she is willing to make a personal sacrifice to save her people, something this comic is failing to show among others.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Nuke87654

[PoisonClaw 8,174]

If you are reading this, then you are overthinking this comic...

- Random note on the wall, Page 3, Issue #19

 

IDW knows their audience, I'll tell you that. Not sure about how much of what I'm about to say will be spoilery, so I'll just spoiler the whole thing.

 

 

On to the issue itself...am I the only one who has zero problems with Celestia this issue? I'll admit the issue dragged a touch with all the exposition, but I thought the story of how she and Alt. Sombra met was rather sweet, especially their trip through the wishing forest. This actually inspires a bit of fringe horror when you think of it, one that potentially explains Celestia's behavior here: one of Starswirl's line indicates that this happens before the Crystal Empire disappeared. Just image what Celestia was feeling when she was forced to face off against an evil version of her dearly beloved? Considering that Luna's banishment likely wasn't long after, the amount of heartbreak Celestia must have felt would have driven anyone else mad with grief. Next to Starswirl, Sombra was her standing stone in a sea of grief, so when Starswirl cut her off from Sombra so suddenly, it not severely strained their relationship but made Celestia desire a way to see Sombra again. I believe the expression is "Love makes fools of us all".

 

Speaking of Sombra (and overthinking this comic)...how old is he? Assuming time between the two worlds is 1:1, then over a thousand years have passed since Starswirl's time. He's not an alicorn so he shouldn't be immortal, yet he's still alive into modern day. 

 

A big problem I had with this issue is thusly: where are the Mean 6? We saw them in the wanted poster when Twilight and the other's were arrested by the guards and despite appearing prominently on one of the covers of this issue (which is the one I got so I can link issue 18 and 19 together) they still don't appear outside of a mini comic at the very end of the issue. I know they're headed to Ponyville in the final issue, but if that's when they appear then this will be one cramped and potentially rushed issue if they plan to cram in a confrontation with their doubles, a showdown between evil Celestia and Luna AND the ultimate conclusion.

 

Edited May 28, 2014 by PoisonClaw

[Nuke87654 1,849]

If you are reading this, then you are overthinking this comic...

- Random note on the wall, Page 3, Issue #19

 

IDW knows their audience, I'll tell you that. Not sure about how much of what I'm about to say will be spoilery, so I'll just spoiler the whole thing.

 

 

On to the issue itself...am I the only one who has zero problems with Celestia this issue? I'll admit the issue dragged a touch with all the exposition, but I thought the story of how she and Alt. Sombra met was rather sweet, especially their trip through the wishing forest. This actually inspires a bit of fringe horror when you think of it, one that potentially explains Celestia's behavior here: one of Starswirl's line indicates that this happens before the Crystal Empire disappeared. Just image what Celestia was feeling when she was forced to face off against an evil version of her dearly beloved? Considering that Luna's banishment likely wasn't long after, the amount of heartbreak Celestia must have felt would have driven anyone else mad with grief. Next to Starswirl, Sombra was her standing stone in a sea of grief, so when Starswirl cut her off from Sombra so suddenly, it not severely strained their relationship but made Celestia desire a way to see Sombra again. I believe the expression is "Love makes fools of us all".

 

Speaking of Sombra (and overthinking this comic)...how old is he? Assuming time between the two worlds is 1:1, then over a thousand years have passed since Starswirl's time. He's not an alicorn so he shouldn't be immortal, yet he's still alive into modern day.

 

A big problem I had with this issue is thusly: where are the Mean 6? We saw them in the wanted poster when Twilight and the other's were arrested by the guards and despite appearing prominently on one of the covers of this issue (which is the one I got so I can link issue 18 and 19 together) they still don't appear outside of a mini comic at the very end of the issue. I know they're headed to Ponyville in the final issue, but if that's when they appear then this will be one cramped and potentially rushed issue if they plan to cram in a confrontation with their doubles, a showdown between evil Celestia and Luna AND the ultimate conclusion.

 

I had an issue with that random note because frankly it just screams to me they're not listening to critiques and are just attacking those critics as simply 'overthinking the comic' when in fact we're pointing out the many issues this arc is giving, especially towards Celestia's character as the biggest issue with this arc is how they're handling Celestia.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Nuke87654

[OtakuBrony 349]

Howdy all!

 

Did get Friends Forever comic with Fluttershy & Zecora and gotta say its pretty good.

 

Poor Flutters getting the shock of her life when she really talks to her critters.

Cant wait for the next volume featuring The Great & Powerful Trixie & Rainbow Dash

 

And also picked up volume 19 of the mane comic and part 2 of the mirror arc and wow

It gets more interesting by the minute.

Nice to see more backstory on Princess Celestia.

 

Cant wait fer volume 20 where as a famous boxing ring announcer says: LETS GET READY TO RUUUMBLEEEE!!!

(If you look at the cover ya know what im talking about )

 

See ya!

[FlutterDash4072 190]

Issue 19's direction was pretty disappointing. I didn't have a problem with the arc at first, but I was expecting the CelestiaxSombra ship to be a subplot. Seeing it take over completely at this point  leaves them with no way to finish the arc well. The final confrontation between the good and evil princesses and the mean 6 is going to be way too rushed for my liking. They might've been able to salvage it if they had a few more issues, but with the 4 issue arc format they wrote themselves into a corner they can't back out of.

 

On a brighter note though, FF05 was an adorable story. I wasn't expecting Discord to pop up, but he really brought the whole issue together, and seeing his friendly side was great characterization for him. And Fleecs is finally proving that he's a good comic artist! I'll never know why he thought doing his issues so differently than his covers was a good idea, but I'm glad that he's finally out of that phase.

[Banul 3,831]

I actually really like the way Celestia is being characterized in the comics, and I think it's because she never seemed to be a well rounded character in the show. Somebody mentioned Superman, and I think it's a really apt comparrason. I haven't read a lot of Superman comics, so this may be off base, but I never really liked Superman precisely because he's this perfect dude your suppose to look up to, rather than a flawed character that can be related too. I always felt the same way about Celestia.

 

As for her being a love crazed romantic, remember that her whole thing with Sombra was before Luna was banished, so at least 1000 years ago. I think I can accept that a much younger Celestia would operate with less wisdom than she does now.

 

 

Other than that, I'm really disappointed we haven't heard from the alternate reality mane 6 yet. I feel like at this point, if they show up at all their appearance is gonna be super rushed. That makes me sad.

[Nuke87654 1,849]

I actually really like the way Celestia is being characterized in the comics, and I think it's because she never seemed to be a well rounded character in the show. Somebody mentioned Superman, and I think it's a really apt comparrason. I haven't read a lot of Superman comics, so this may be off base, but I never really liked Superman precisely because he's this perfect dude your suppose to look up to, rather than a flawed character that can be related too. I always felt the same way about Celestia.

 

As for her being a love crazed romantic, remember that her whole thing with Sombra was before Luna was banished, so at least 1000 years ago. I think I can accept that a much younger Celestia would operate with less wisdom than she does now.

 

 

Other than that, I'm really disappointed we haven't heard from the alternate reality mane 6 yet. I feel like at this point, if they show up at all their appearance is gonna be super rushed. That makes me sad.

 

I don't for various reasons in this blog I've written: http://mlpforums.com/blog/1527/entry-11694-mlp-comic-issue-19-comic-review/

 

You may not like a character that is supposedly too perfect for your tastes, but not only do I not see Celestia as perfect but I rather enjoy her type to be a character to look up to because she's supposed to be a ruler that all ponies (most prominently Twilight) look up to for inspiration and leadership whenever they need it, responsibilities Celestia in the show takes very seriously above all else, even willingly banishing her own sister much to her angst and distraught as she knew letting Nightmare Moon to run unopposed will doom her people.

 

Except she still continues to be a love crazed romantic thousands of years after Luna's banishment. That is one of the biggest problems in this arc is of how Celestia continues to behave like a love crazed maniac that is willing to endanger her people, lie to those who trust and care for her, refusing to abandon her love when it becomes apparent it is endangering her people and kingdom along his own which note she was willing to banish her sister when she became too deep in as Nightmare Moon so take that as her loving AU Sombra more than her sister, break a friend's trust, go behind said friend regardless of what he did, and even hold a bit of vendetta against said friend because he did it for her Equestria's sake if we're to connect the show and comics just so she can continue to be with AU Sombra. The show Celestia would never stoop to such levels.

 

Seriously, if this were portrayed on the show or had it been one of the mane 6 or Luna that behaved in this way, the hypothetical outrage for this behavior would make this seem small in comparison.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

With the Discord X Celestia shipping teased at the season 4 finale, I wonder if this means the reflections arc isn't considered canon just by how the show seems to prefer that shipping over the one the Reflection's arc is using?

I believe fans are reading far too much into that scene, and that it was not intended (at least seriously) as a ship tease. Myself, I would hate it the show developed a relationship between Discord and Celestia.

[Nuke87654 1,849]

I believe fans are reading far too much into that scene, and that it was not intended (at least seriously) as a ship tease. Myself, I would hate it the show developed a relationship between Discord and Celestia.

True, truth be told it was more of me wishing the 'reflections arc' wasn't canon more than anything.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

True, truth be told it was more of me wishing the 'reflections arc' wasn't canon more than anything.

I haven't read the Reflections arc, heck I haven't read the Chrysalis or Nightmare Arc either yet, but I am intrigued by it. Of note, I never expect perfection from the stories I read so while much of the criticism offered for the newest arc may have merit I'm going to hold the optimistic view that I will enjoy it... at least most of it.

 

Interestingly my complains are often difference from others, and what is 'story breaking' for many is often a small detail to me... such as the Mysterious Mare-Do-Well. I enjoyed it and felt all it would need is a minor edit here or there to fix up and that the characters were more in character then others think... yet that is potentally thread derailing so I will end that line of thought.

Edited May 30, 2014 by EquestrianScholar

[Rarity Paige Belle 1,854]

If you think issue 19 was bad, I've just got my hands on a MLP G1 comic! The plot...there is no plot!

[Nuke87654 1,849]

If you think issue 19 was bad, I've just got my hands on a MLP G1 comic! The plot...there is no plot!

Wow how did you find that?

I haven't read the Reflections arc, heck I haven't read the Chrysalis or Nightmare Arc either yet, but I am intrigued by it. Of note, I never expect perfection from the stories I read so while much of the criticism offered for the newest arc may have merit I'm going to hold the optimistic view that I will enjoy it... at least most of it.

 

Interestingly my complains are often difference from others, and what is 'story breaking' for many is often a small detail to me... such as the Mysterious Mare-Do-Well. I enjoyed it and felt all it would need is a minor edit here or there to fix up and that the characters were more in character then others think... yet that is potentally thread derailing so I will end that line of thought.

I'll just leave it that their idea for adding more character to Celestia is by making her a selfish and petty romantic who is willing to risk anything for love.

[Rarity Paige Belle 1,854]

Wow how did you find that?

On eBay! But when I say comic, it's more like an activity book, with puzzles, letters from kids etc as well as two or three stories. Here's what it looked like:

[Nuke87654 1,849]

On eBay! But when I say comic, it's more like an activity book, with puzzles, letters from kids etc as well as two or three stories. Here's what it looked like:tumblr_m767ec2AwH1rz9gauo5_1280.jpg

Oh how things have changed indeed.

[The Coffee Pony 1,390]

You know...I want to like this arc, I really do, it has some good ideas. I like the idea of the mirror universe, an evil Celestia and Luna,

 

I like AU!Sombra, hell I even find the Celesta/Sombra pairing kind of cute

 

but unfortunately the execution is coming off as poor

 

The arc is coming off as incredibly slow paced, issue 19 has served to attack people for giving criticism, they've been teasing us with ideas that they haven't put in yet (alt. mane 6) and it looks like they're going to cram everything into the last issue.

 

As much as I like the pairing the execution really isn't making Celestia's character look good. For love she destroyed her friendship with Starswirl for doing the right thing, in fact it looks like she's holding a grudge against him from what I remember in the Season 3 finale, and she willingly put her kingdom in danger and she keeps saying "I young and irresponsible" sure but from what I'm getting from this comic she continued that mistake for 1000 years and willingly put her kingdom in danger for a relationship that she know she can't keep for that reason which is rendering that point moot.

 

I hate to make this comparison but this story is starting to remind me of The Amazing Spider-Man: One More Day story arc!

Edited May 30, 2014 by The Coffee Man

[GreyScholar 1,584]

I'll just leave it that their idea for adding more character to Celestia is by making her a selfish and petty romantic who is willing to risk anything for love.

Now, now I feel such a situation could perhaps use a few edits here and a there to fix that. That sounds more to the idea that the writer did not consider the implications of some of Celestia's words and actions, thus leading some to view Celestia as such.

 

Again though, I will judge once I read it. I like to make my own decisions and not allow others to taint what could for me be an enjoyable story, even if the writers made mistakes or could have done certain parts better. Heck, I could still put to use what I find involving Princess Celestia in the comics to use in how I play her on this site... at least potentially.

 

You see I consider the comics fair game for character development and ideas as long as they do not directly conflict with the show and any parts that could be argued as such I can ignore or alter to fit with the show. Now many may disagree with this viewpoint but as long as I don't directly go against canon from the show I see no reason not to consider the comics for canon when it comes to roleplay.

 

Even now I am considering ways in which to use the Reflection arc while not falling prey to the problems readers see in it... could be fun.

[Rarity Paige Belle 1,854]

Oh how things have changed indeed.

Yes they have! For instance there was more G1 merch in the UK than the states!

[Castle Bleck 19,446]

Never in a million years thought I'd be saying this, but... GOOD!SOMBRA'S MY NEWEST ENSEMBLE DARKHORSE!!!

[The Coffee Pony 1,390]

Here's something that's been bugging me about this issue: If the two worlds are so deeply linked that anything that happens in one universe happens in the other then why isn't Sombra dead? We saw him die in the main universe, McCarthy confirmed his death, why is this one still alive?

[GreyScholar 1,584]

McCarthy confirmed his death

Can you offer a source for this please.

[Banul 3,831]

You know...I want to like this arc, I really do, it has some good ideas. I like the idea of the mirror universe, an evil Celestia and Luna,

 

I like AU!Sombra, hell I even find the Celesta/Sombra pairing kind of cute

 

but unfortunately the execution is coming off as poor

 

The arc is coming off as incredibly slow paced, issue 19 has served to attack people for giving criticism, they've been teasing us with ideas that they haven't put in yet (alt. mane 6) and it looks like they're going to cram everything into the last issue.

 

As much as I like the pairing the execution really isn't making Celestia's character look good. For love she destroyed her friendship with Starswirl for doing the right thing, in fact it looks like she's holding a grudge against him from what I remember in the Season 3 finale, and she willingly put her kingdom in danger and she keeps saying "I young and irresponsible" sure but from what I'm getting from this comic she continued that mistake for 1000 years and willingly put her kingdom in danger for a relationship that she know she can't keep for that reason which is rendering that point moot.

 

I hate to make this comparison but this story is starting to remind me of The Amazing Spider-Man: One More Day story arc!

I guess I'm just willing to believe that Celestia would do dumb things for love, because I think that those emotions can make a very rational person do illogical things from time to time. That said, I totally get why people get put off by the way she's acting. Maybe I'm a little more willing to see her act a bit out of character to move the plot forward because I was never that attached to Celestia to begin with.

 

Now that I'm done defending Celestia's character in general though, I think I agree that issue 19 was bad now that I've had time to swish it around in my brain hole. We get some back story I guess, but I feel like nothing really happened to move the plot forward this issue. I also can't overstate my disappointment that we got no alternate reality mane six yet. That should have been a major selling point. C'mon guys, where are they? If your going to go the whole evil parallel world thing, you need to have the main characters their at the very LEAST.

[The Coffee Pony 1,390]

Can you offer a source for this please.

 

Certainly

 

http://www.equestriadaily.com/2013/02/unicon-2013-panel-writers-room.html#more

 

 

And the last question of the panel came from our very own Phoe, woman of words! When she asked Meghan about developing antagonists that live up to those who came before and raising the stakes, Meghan was very gracious and acknowledged King Sombra's lukewarm reception in the fandom. She confirmed he was Killed Off for Real, and admitted he was her least favorite character she'd written, saying he didn't come across in the episode as formed as she had him in her head (though not for a lack of trying!). He was always meant to be more of an evil presence (think Sauron) who doesn't share the same in-your-face persona as Discord and Chrysalis, a sentiment Phoe identified accurately in her thematic analysis of the premiere back in November.

 

It's a real shame really, I really did want them to expand on Evil!Sombra more. Really thought they wasted him.

 

Still, again I ask, if he's dead then why is the other one still standing?

Edited May 31, 2014 by The Coffee Man

[GreyScholar 1,584]

Still, again I ask, if he's dead then why is the other one still standing?

Well of note it did say this:

It looks unlikely that IDW and Hasbro are going to maintain one coherent continuity between the comic and the show. The comic goes to lengths to honor events in the show at least from Season 2 and before, though.

Which means that I can still treat the Nightmare arc as canon though the continuity will no longer be a strong as it has been. My thoughts on Good Sombra being alive while Evil Sombra is dead? The Good Sombra had more to live for and wouldn't put himself into the situation Evil Sombra did.

 

Also it would be impossible to keep everything perfectly mirrored unless you had some power greater then Discord controlling everyone's lives and forcing them to follow each other without divergance.

-------------

 

Also, unless the comic blatantly says otherwise, would it not be reasonable to say that Good King Sombra was unlock the way by evil Celestia Luna for a thousand? His last act being to cast a spell that would protect his kingdom from the evils of the royal sisters and Celestia not spending/wasting time with him while her sister while she is banished on the moon. Heck if th comic follows the idea of mirrored universe at all this would mean Celestia would be more guilty I'm spending time with Good Nightmare Moon... If it wasn't for the reasoning that Good Nightmare Moon would have been banished to the moon by evil Celestia.

 

Hmm, perhaps I should just try reading the arc.

Edited May 31, 2014 by EquestrianScholar