Brony Music vs. VGM Remixing: Comparing Talent Filtering

[DusK 1,264]

I wrote this up a while ago on my Tumblr, but I figured I might post it here to open up some discussion about this particular topic. Here's the copypasta:

Hi. I’m DusK. I’m a newcomer to the brony music scene. I’m not, however, a stranger to music production. Brace yourselves if you’re a fan of the brony music scene and its most popular musicians for whatever reason.

 

Firstly, if you’re not familiar with OverClocked ReMix, get acquainted with it. I’ll give you the rundown, though. See, plenty of musicians remix video game music. The confident among them submit their music to OverClocked ReMix. And the best of them watch their songs end up on the site, thanks to a team of experienced (often professional) musicians and producers tending an unbiased and strict Judges Panel. Those who don’t make the cut, just don’t make the cut. Cyril’s profile on Equestria Daily’s staff page states that “the quality-control levels of their judges panel is legendary” on OC ReMix, and that statement is 100% true.

 

Got it? Good. Now onto the stuff about brony music.

 

When I first got engrossed in MLP:FiM, hearing the music was like being issued a challenge. Being a video game music remixer, I’ve turned all manner of music into metal that was really never intended to be so when it was written. And I have a couple of tracks posted on OverClocked ReMix, where only the best video game music remixes get posted, so yeah, I like to think I’m pretty decent at it. I still do it pretty often, turning stuff that’s not metal into metal. And when hearing these upbeat songs from the show, I was like “I bet I could make a metal cover of that.”

 

So I did. I made a quick metal version of Pinkie Pie’s little “Evil Enchantress” ditty, and synced it with the video for practice. Then I moved onto the Smile Song. It was here that I was introduced to the music system of Equestria Daily.

 

My experience with Equestria Daily as both a listener and a musician has led me to one conclusion: It’s a mixed bag. Three out of the five tracks I’ve submitted have been in spotlight articles, with the other two ending up in “Music of the Day” articles. If you don’t know what music of the day is, it’s like this: When most of the pre-listeners vote no on a track, it goes to music of the day with like 10+ other songs that didn’t make the cut. A great system, if it wasn’t so inconsistent. The pre-listeners, they’re no OCR judges; most of them don’t even come close to the level of talent and experience the OCR Judges Panel has on average. So what gets spotlighted on EqD and what gets a backseat all too often differs from what objectively should get spotlighted and stuck into the “leftovers” post. A combination of what I lovingly refer to as “popular mediocrity” (More on that later in this post) and a severe slant towards EDM and orchestral music within the pre-listener base overshadows what objectivity and experience there may be. Yeah, they usually get it right, because some tracks are obviously better than others. But sometimes, they slip, and a great rock piece will take a backseat to some mechanical, under-produced attempt at EDM, or an orchestral piece that sounds like a SNES rip.

 

So, if EqD isn’t the place for finding good brony music, what is? Maybe something a bit more dedicated to music, like an Internet radio station? The most popular one seems to be EverFree radio, and yeah, it’s even worse than EqD.

 

I’m speaking from observation and experience on this one as well. I watched as some of my more well-produced tracks were kept off the playlist in favor of stuff with production and composition values so low they’d get a direct rejection letter if they were video game remixes sent to OCR, and even more recently, songs that have nothing to do with the show at all. How do you screw that up? It boggles the mind. Watching two of my tracks kept off that site for no given reason (Yeah, I asked, I’m confrontational like that) while sub-par music gets added to their system daily, it makes me wonder: How many other fantastic brony musicians got the same treatment? How many other great musicians are now unknown because EverFree felt like bad music -objectively speaking- deserved more attention?

 

I was trying to wrap my mind around how the state of brony music could be what it is, and it hit me: The brony music scene mirrors the mainstream music scene. Mediocre musicians getting all the attention, all the airplay, and even having some degree of control over which direction the scene as a whole takes by having a hand in the sites that most people go to for fandom music, with better artists going largely unrecognized and emerging musicians stuck in limbo. Yeah, there are a few of them whose talent reflects in their fanbase accurately, but all too often I keep seeing the Soulja Boys, Nickelbacks, and Justin Biebers of the fandom being talked about like they’re the hottest shit on the planet, with The Human Abstracts, the Protest The Heroes, the Still Remainses of the fandom being left in the shadows.

 

Maybe I’m spoiled by a fantastic filtering process. The video game music arrangement community that I’ve been a part of for the past couple of years has a way to filter out the bad from the good, and it’s in OC ReMix, the single best source of independent musical talent on the Internet. And unlike the brony music scene, the VGM remixing scene has very few well-known artists whose talent doesn’t match their reputation, and many of these experienced musicians, the most objective of them, are the ones that evaluate all comers and separate the crap from the creme in a way that’s really just unquestionably accurate. The brony music scene just doesn’t have that.

 

But damn, I sure wish it did.

 

[Profpatsch 4]

You are absolutely right.

 

But you know what the great thing about this community is? If you don’t like something, you can start and improve it by yourself and if it’s good enough, there WILL be people jumping on the train before you can even blink (most of the times even if it’s not that good, see post above ).

 

That’s why aside from EQD, today there is Derpyhoovesnews, too, and even some other sites.

 

You are right, EQD maybe is too big to be changed drastically (basically it’s still a three-or-four-man-project with lots of people hanging around and by that quite unflexible) but it’s not the lynch pin of the fandom anymore. I’d go as far and say that if Sethisto and his team disappeared today the fandom would still flourish all the same.

If you want to start something the likes of OCRemix, hit me up, I’d love to help (I even think I have what it takes to be in the jury, but that’s for others to decide). 

[DusK 1,264]

You are absolutely right.

 

But you know what the great thing about this community is? If you don’t like something, you can start and improve it by yourself and if it’s good enough, there WILL be people jumping on the train before you can even blink (most of the times even if it’s not that good, see post above ).

 

That’s why aside from EQD, today there is Derpyhoovesnews, too, and even some other sites.

 

You are right, EQD maybe is too big to be changed drastically (basically it’s still a three-or-four-man-project with lots of people hanging around and by that quite unflexible) but it’s not the lynch pin of the fandom anymore. I’d go as far and say that if Sethisto and his team disappeared today the fandom would still flourish all the same.

If you want to start something the likes of OCRemix, hit me up, I’d love to help (I even think I have what it takes to be in the jury, but that’s for others to decide). 

 

I wish I had the resources to start something like OCR for the fandom music, but I really don't have the resources. It would take a panel of at least 10 musicians/producers who are just that talented, experienced, and unbiased; I'm not even sure that number even exists in the entire fandom, let alone enough that would be willing to cast a vote and give detailed feedback on just about every submission. Hell, most of even the most popular musicians in the fandom probably wouldn't even pass the OCR Judges Panel if they ever submitted a VGM remix, so having what it takes to be on a panel of similar expertise would be out of the question. I supposed the standards for the judges panel could be lowered a bit to compensate for the lack of available comparable talent, but then we'd end up with, well, EqD 2!

 

And then there's the web hosting, which is something I definitely lack the money or connections for. I had enough trouble finding a place for my own site as it is.

 

I guess my biggest aim in this analysis was to hopefully spur a conversation within the community about this problem so that those who are at the root of the problem itself could do what any person dedicated to their work would do; take the feedback and use it to better themselves and their work.

[Profpatsch 4]

but I really don't have the resources.

 

 

Ohhh dear, here we go again. 

First off: You noticed the problem with today’s brony music sites. You already got some tracks on OCRemix. You have the resources.

 

 

I'm not even sure that number even exists in the entire fandom

 

 

I’m absolutely sure that number exists in the fandom. Maybe not as good as on OCR, but good enough to raise the current content by several dozen levels.

 

 

Hell, most of even the most popular musicians in the fandom probably wouldn't even pass the OCR Judges Panel if they ever submitted a VGM remix

 

 

Yep, a lot of Tomb’s or MandoPony’s stuff wouldn’t pass for sure if we started the project, but that’s kind of the goal: Get away from the current situation preferring known artist and showcase real talent. (Not that these guys don’t have talent, quite the opposite, but some of their stuff simply isn’t up to par.)

 

 

And then there's the web hosting, which is something I definitely lack the money or connections for. I had enough trouble finding a place for my own site as it is.

 

That’s not a problem. If there is something we definitely aren’t short of in a community consisting mostly of male nerds ( ), it is web hosting.

 

 

Let me tell you a little story of a guy who would never have considered having the “resources” but simply started and watched what happened:

Roughly ten months ago he read a very good fanfic and asked himself why there was no real book of it considering the all around quality of the work. So he set up a pledge saying: “I am going to buy a print of the book if one hundred people do the same to reduce printing costs”.

Today he’s backed by a three-man team of highly motivated bronies, a twenty-ish team of proof-readers, three artists and the author that together have produced a fully professional layouted hardcover of said story, set up a homepage and a publishing group and are nearing printing and shipping with the last illustrations floating in.

And yes, I am that guy and I still have no idea how all of this happened.

Ah, and the project is here in case you are curious: http://www.equestriapublications.org

 

But what I got out of this:

1. If you want things to be done, start yourself. People will jump on the train once it starts moving (maybe grab one or two people to help pushing ).
2. Don’t feel too intimidated about your goals, if you set them reasonably they will most likely be exceeded many times (don’t forget to adjust them when they are reached).

   For this particular example don’t set them to be “a brony OCRemix” or you will fail. But rather something the likes of

   “Get a jury of three to five judges and one or two technicians together and start collecting the best originals and remixes of the last two years.” sounds more reasonable and doable.

3. Core team. Without it, the project is most likely to fail. Three to five people, less is not a team, more is democracy and democracy is bad for productivity (yes it is).
4. Regular meetings. Even if not much happens over the week, you can be sure that on meeting day stuff will be done. Not the best way to handle it, but people are doing it for free so you can’t expect them put your project above their personal lifes.
5. I’ve got a lot more but I want this list to be meaningful. 

 

I’d be more than happy to help. 

 

 

Edit:

Nothing? Come on, you can do it.

 

 

I actually like the idea very much and when listening to music the last days always thought: Would I include it into the list? Is it objectively good/well done?

It’s a lot of fun.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Profpatsch

[DusK 1,264]

I've actually been inspired to do something about it, and if things go right, it might get done in a pretty big way.

 

Here's a blog post about it. The idea's been fairly well-received so far, so we'll see how it all pans out.

[Profpatsch 4]

After reading through all these articles, forum posts and particularly your critique on AndrewClocksinPK’s newest song, I’m not too sure anymore if I’d make the list as far as my background in production goes, since I haven’t yet done anything I found worth releasing to the broader public.

 

Nonetheless, I think I possess the ability to judge the objective quality of a piece, though, and, maybe even more valuable, I don’t have a “favourite” genre and pretty much listen to anything that is well done and differs from the rest (you know, that little thing that makes a track special, that thing that makes you go: “Wow”, e.g. a sudden unexpected harmony, a darn good synthie, an unconventional instrument, basically anything that shows the talent and creativity of the producer/writer/artist).

 

One can make oneself a picture of it quite clearly when looking at my last.fm favourites which (mostly) consist only of top-notch tracks (though I sometimes trade in production value if the rest fits, see “Foozogz—Love Bloom” for example, which has terrible muddy mixing even at the second try, or pretty much all of Awkward Marina’s stuff, in which the lyrics partly even clip but has lots and lots of charm otherwise).

http://www.last.fm/user/Profpatsch/library/loved?sortBy=date&sortOrder=desc&page=1

 

I guess I simply have to write up some critiques and let you decide afterwards.

If production background and released tracks are absolutely mandatory, I’m pretty sure I’ll have something to show sometime soon (as in: a few months).

If that still wouldn’t suffice I’d be happy to help in any way possible to make this a (working!) reality soon (as in 2–3 months).

Edited January 5, 2013 by Profpatsch