Christian bronies: meet, greet, and mingle!

[Le Kvlt Dawn 2,364]

Well I hope you did your research properly. A lot of people turn away from God because they only think about it internally. Conversely there are many atheists who are turned to Christianity because they did good research and did it questioning their worldview and assumptions. Questioning everything is a two way street, and I respect for thinking about something as big as your religion and inadvertently your worldview.

Personally, I'm much happier without a religion. I find joy through other things in life, like music and poetry. Different people find joy through different things, for some people it's religion and for others it isn't.

 

 

Firstly, I want to say that I'm very pleased with your openness. I think it's really cool that you feel comfortable asking for advice on this thread.

 

Secondly, Woah. Catholic, eh? Yeah, I understand how that can be distancing. I'm a Christian and even I feel estranged from Catholics due to their many traditional practices sometimes.

 

Now, I'm afraid I cannot advise you on timings. I do not know if it is best for you to inform your family of your beliefs now, or to wait, but I can tell you some things that I hope will encourage you.

 

Your family thinks you are Catholic, but you aren't. While you don't say anything about it, you are letting them believe something that is not true. I think that you should probably reveal yourself sooner than later, so that the situation does not fester. Basically, in a way, you are lying to them, and I think that you should tell them the truth before that lie has gone too far. I would personally tell my family before I was confirmed into the church. I'm not a Catholic, but as far as I see it, Confirmation is the point of no return.

 

But I think you already recognise this, hence the reason you are asking. xD

 

Now, you say your family is very Catholic. Catholicism, as of course you know, is a denomination of Christianity. If your family is Catholic, they should be Christians.

 

In the Christian Bible, Jesus says:

 

"And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.”" - Mark 11:25 (NIV)

 

The Bible also says:

 

"Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity." - Colossians 3:12-14

 

God calls Christians to forgive. To love.

 

When you tell your family that you are an atheist, they will be shocked at first. They will likely get quite angry. They may be angry for a long time. And it might take them an even longer time after they have settled down, but if they are Christians, they will forgive you.

 

Maybe your telling the truth about yourself will be a test of their faith, I don't know.

 

So yeah, sooner rather than later, would be my advice, but I am not all knowing.

 

Thanks again for your honesty, I'll pray for you.

 

EDIT:

 

@@MichaelxXxTrixie,

 

Look, I can see that you are only here to pick a fight. That's not what I'm here for.

 

I like a good debate as much as the next high schooler with time to waste, but I'm not going to debate with someone who isn't out to actually learn anything.

 

I'll still be here to answer any questions you have concerning the Bible, if you are willing to consider my answers. Just shoot me a PM.

I was thinking that they'll get really mad when I first tell them, but after a while they'll probably get used. Either that or they'll try to convert me back (which won't work on me). I REALLY dislike it when people try to convert me, I remember on my way to school one day this lady asked me if I believed in Jesus, I nodded "no" at her and then she "wished destruction" upon me. I also remember this one girl made fun of me because I support Darwin's theory of evolution. I've also been labeled a "satanist" by this other kid. I've looked into other religions like Paganism, Buddhism and LaVayen Satanism, but I'm much better off just having no religion. Anyways, thanks for your help.

[Vinstar59 59]

In eighth grade I had a really awesome English teacher and he would always tell us "Question everything", and so I did. I questioned a lot of things and the existence of God just happened to be one of them, so I became agnostic. I thought about it for hours everyday and after a few months is when decided that there isn't a God. And ever since then I've been an atheist.

I agree with your teacher. You always should question everything. Whether God is real or not is a question I do ask myself often, along with many others. 

 

Am I the person I'm supposed to be? Is my life worth anything? What do I live for? What do I stand for? Is what I believe true? Do I have attractions to the same sex? Do people think as I do? Does no one in my life understand me?! Is living in this house with these people I call my "family" really the best thing for me?! Will my dad ever change?! Why won't he understand me?! Is my best option to KILL HIM?! How am I to mentally survive living with THESE people?! SHOULD I KILL MYSELF?! SHOULD I END MY LIFE?! These questions go through my head...daily. 

 

To live in a family where one side believe's things different from you and the other had the same beliefs but now no longer believes any more or has just given up. To have a faithless father so blind to his poor situation that he cannot tell the difference between him doing his duties as a father and merely attacking me and suppressing who I am as a person. To have a family where fighting is a daily event, so common that at points it becomes physical. To watch yourself loose your mind to rage and begin screaming and thrashing as if a wild animal towards the man you once called you father. You will begin to question whether God is real. If life is worth living. That suicide really isn't as crazy as it sounds.

 

Yet these dark times, these questions are what make me Catholic. It's not some decision I made to be one. It's not something I do because it makes me happy. I am Catholic out of necessity, out of survival. I would be dead were it not for the sacraments of Reconciliation and the Eucharist. Not just dead in body, but in soul as well. The life I live is a very hard and very real one. So believe me when I say, I understand how you feel. It's just one of the few things I experience on a daily basis.

 

I agree with Flutterspark that the longer you wait to be honest about how you feel, the worse it will be. I don't know your parents. I don't know what your parish is like. And I don't know what the rest of your family is like. What I do know is that I have had these truths revealed to me through out the years of my life... 

 

There is a God...there is a devil. There is a heaven...there is a hell...and so long as I live on this earth, I will not idly stand by and let people condemn themselves to hell. Because I know personally that there is a God. He is loving beyond all measure. And I can not bear the thought of some one not being able to come and see Him in heaven. It breaks my heart.

 

I'm asking you to be Catholic because I care about you. Not because it's "the right thing", not because it's the faith your family practices, not because it's time for your Confirmation and not because I'm a Catholic myself. I'm asking because I care about you. I'm asking because the thought of being in heaven without you there is unbearable.

 

It won't be easy and it never will be. I can't force you to listen to this testimony of mine, nor to be Catholic, but from what you've told me, you'll either have a family that will support you through this time in your life and help you every step of the way or they are not true Catholics and I'd understand why you're struggling. I've done...terrible things, much worse than simply questioning God, and yet that never stops my Catholic mother from loving me. The more honest I have been in my life, especially to my parents, the more it opens me up to the grace of God and the more it surprises me. Talk with your parents. Hiding things from others never bode well for the one that's hiding something. I know this from experience.

 

You'll have my prayers for your journey ahead. I'll offer up the suffering I've had to endure in my life with my family so that you will never have to. We're all brothers and sisters in Christ, believers or not, and I truly, from the bottom of my heart, mean it when I say that I do care about you and I do wish to see you personally in heaven.

 

And you like poetry and music? You should give Psalms a look sometime. It's nothing but songs and poetry.

 

God Bless.

[Flutterspark 48]

@@Vinstar59,

 

Powerful testimony, sir. Bravo!

 

I'm sorry to hear about your troubles, and glad to hear about your overcoming them through the power of our God.

 

Again, bravo, and God bless you!

 

@, 

 

No problem, no problem at all.

 

Remember, true Christians never waste their time making converts. They're too busy saving lives.

 

Feel free to give me a PM if you ever want any encouragement, or prayer, or anything of the sort.

[NostalgicPony 310]

I respect people who believe in any religion, and that includes those that choose to believe in the Christian god.

 

I'm not a Christian myself, (I'm a Deist and believe in nature's god) however, I do find a few philosophers in Christianity to be good contributors to the study of natural law and philosophical thought.

[Le Kvlt Dawn 2,364]

I agree with your teacher. You always should question everything. Whether God is real or not is a question I do ask myself often, along with many others.

 

Am I the person I'm supposed to be? Is my life worth anything? What do I live for? What do I stand for? Is what I believe true? Do I have attractions to the same sex? Do people think as I do? Does no one in my life understand me?! Is living in this house with these people I call my "family" really the best thing for me?! Will my dad ever change?! Why won't he understand me?! Is my best option to KILL HIM?! How am I to mentally survive living with THESE people?! SHOULD I KILL MYSELF?! SHOULD I END MY LIFE?! These questions go through my head...daily.

 

To live in a family where one side believe's things different from you and the other had the same beliefs but now no longer believes any more or has just given up. To have a faithless father so blind to his poor situation that he cannot tell the difference between him doing his duties as a father and merely attacking me and suppressing who I am as a person. To have a family where fighting is a daily event, so common that at points it becomes physical. To watch yourself loose your mind to rage and begin screaming and thrashing as if a wild animal towards the man you once called you father. You will begin to question whether God is real. If life is worth living. That suicide really isn't as crazy as it sounds.

 

Yet these dark times, these questions are what make me Catholic. It's not some decision I made to be one. It's not something I do because it makes me happy. I am Catholic out of necessity, out of survival. I would be dead were it not for the sacraments of Reconciliation and the Eucharist. Not just dead in body, but in soul as well. The life I live is a very hard and very real one. So believe me when I say, I understand how you feel. It's just one of the few things I experience on a daily basis.

 

I agree with Flutterspark that the longer you wait to be honest about how you feel, the worse it will be. I don't know your parents. I don't know what your parish is like. And I don't know what the rest of your family is like. What I do know is that I have had these truths revealed to me through out the years of my life...

 

There is a God...there is a devil. There is a heaven...there is a hell...and so long as I live on this earth, I will not idly stand by and let people condemn themselves to hell. Because I know personally that there is a God. He is loving beyond all measure. And I can not bear the thought of some one not being able to come and see Him in heaven. It breaks my heart.

 

I'm asking you to be Catholic because I care about you. Not because it's "the right thing", not because it's the faith your family practices, not because it's time for your Confirmation and not because I'm a Catholic myself. I'm asking because I care about you. I'm asking because the thought of being in heaven without you there is unbearable.

 

It won't be easy and it never will be. I can't force you to listen to this testimony of mine, nor to be Catholic, but from what you've told me, you'll either have a family that will support you through this time in your life and help you every step of the way or they are not true Catholics and I'd understand why you're struggling. I've done...terrible things, much worse than simply questioning God, and yet that never stops my Catholic mother from loving me. The more honest I have been in my life, especially to my parents, the more it opens me up to the grace of God and the more it surprises me. Talk with your parents. Hiding things from others never bode well for the one that's hiding something. I know this from experience.

 

You'll have my prayers for your journey ahead. I'll offer up the suffering I've had to endure in my life with my family so that you will never have to. We're all brothers and sisters in Christ, believers or not, and I truly, from the bottom of my heart, mean it when I say that I do care about you and I do wish to see you personally in heaven.

 

And you like poetry and music? You should give Psalms a look sometime. It's nothing but songs and poetry.

 

God Bless.

Well I can't revert back to Catholicism. I appreciate your offer but I don't believe in heaven or hell. To me, you live once and you have to treasure that life and get the most out of it. Edited August 23, 2013 by Sakurako Ohmuro

[Aura 120]

Hello, everypony!  If you have not seen me around this site before... then maybe I am not talking enough.      I am a born-again Christian believing that salvation is only through the blood of Jesus Christ.  Having noticed that there are a number of Christians on this site was encouraging, and seeing some of the posts on this page simply adds to it!  Perhaps I will be encouraged, with strength from God, to speak His Word more often than before.

[Adash 193]

yep, I'm roman catholic and have been for my whole life. I do attend church every Sunday unlike many people my age. It's good to see people have faith in God around here.

[MobiusKing97 16]

i am a christian and im proud of it no doubt but some people laugh at me when i tell them im a brony and they think thats gay and to me its ridiculous so i say to them......f*** off!!!!

[Yellow Diamond 7,564]

Well I can't revert back to Catholicism. I appreciate your offer but I don't believe in heaven or hell. To me, you live once and you have to treasure that life and her the most out of it.

 

Not to be overly picky, but you could "revert" back to Catholicism. (The nature of reverting is debatable, given the implications of baptism.) You are choosing not to do so, which is different from whether or not you are capable/incapable.

 

It sounds like a semantic exercise, I know, but it irks me slightly when confusion is made between personal commitments and abilities.

[PlunderSteed 1,251]

Not to be overly picky, but you could "revert" back to Catholicism. (The nature of reverting is debatable, given the implications of baptism.) You are choosing not to do so, which is different from whether or not you are capable/incapable.

 

It sounds like a semantic exercise, I know, but it irks me slightly when confusion is made between personal commitments and abilities.

 

This brings up an interesting point about "reverting back" to any particular flavor of theism.  Most formerly Christian atheists came to the conclusion that God does not (or cannot) exist after contemplating the evidence, counter-points and biases invested in the idea.  Such a person is about as likely to "revert back" to Christianity as they are likely to revert back to believing in Santa Claus as an adult.

Edited August 23, 2013 by NLR Information Minister

[DusK 1,264]

This brings up an interesting point about "reverting back" to any particular flavor of theism.  Most formerly Christian atheists came to the conclusion that God does not (or cannot) exist after contemplating the evidence, counter-points and biases invested in the idea.  Such a person is about as likely to "revert back" to Christianity as they are likely to revert back to believing in Santa Claus as an adult.

Not that I'd wish to invoke a misuse of anecdotal evidence but -- here I am, a former Christian in youth turned adamant atheist turned Christian again! And given the nature of the experience that made me turn back to Christianity, I have no doubt that my story and similar stories happen a fair bit more often than your (rather insulting) Santa Clause comparison.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

C.S. Lewis was a former atheist, also an intelligent and a very well learned man.

 

His books I've always greatly enjoyed. Whether it be his Chronicles of Narnia... or Mere Christianity. The later of which is a book that always amazes me at just how very close he got to the truth on who God and Jesus Christ was compared to mainstream Christianity.

 

Admittingly because the Trinity doctrine he did have to dedicated a number of pages to explaining how God could still run the universe and come down as a mortal as Jesus Christ.

 

The Trinity doctrine forces so many Christians to have to jump through hoops to explain how God works.

[I used to be a stranger 7,989]

This post has been redacted by the author.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Blue

[PlunderSteed 1,251]

Not that I'd wish to invoke a misuse of anecdotal evidence but -- here I am, a former Christian in youth turned adamant atheist turned Christian again! And given the nature of the experience that made me turn back to Christianity, I have no doubt that my story and similar stories happen a fair bit more often than your (rather insulting) Santa Clause comparison.

 

Would you be up for sharing your personal experience?  It sounds like an interesting story.  What exactly happened during the three transitions (becoming Christian the first time, then dropping it, then picking it up again)?

[Luximus 481]

Born a Christian, raised as a Christian, and will always be a Christian. I know all of the stories in the Bible, I go to Church every Sunday and first Friday, and all that jazz.

[Dsanders 5,742]

Let me just say, that I find Christianity to be one of the most positive and influential religions out there, in my opinion. I respect almost all of the principles taught and the basic morales they encourage in our daily lives. Being a former Christian, I still love and strongly go by many of these principles.

 

I enjoy almost all of the stories and parables in the bible, as they are really encouraging to hear, and some of the best one's I've heard have helped me in a spiritual kind of sense. Giving me motivation and the hopes that there is always more to life beyond what we can see physically. That is always the light at the end of the dark tunnel and we have a purpose to live.

 

I actually believe that there is a God. There just has to be one existing! I just go and look outside, looking at our sun, our clear blue skies, the clouds, the birds, the planes that fly by, and I can easily just see the miracles shown in our beautiful skies alone.

 

I look towards the horizon and what is around me, and see the mountains, the trees, all the houses, the lamp posts, the outdoor cats and dogs walking by. I breath the air, I hear the sound of the wind and the leaves rustling. I see and notice just how many different colors and hues there are that allow me to see all that I can see; the beauty of light reflecting and refracting!

 

I can think all that I can think and I'll sometimes think about all the immense complexities in our brain. It's insane.

 

I look back on history and wonder in amazement of how we humans have gone from being practically nothing to where we are now, with all a population of over 7 billion, all this urban development and all the industrial and idealistic revolutions we have gone through, the inventions, all that we have ever created, all the technology all around us.

 

I don't care how well and clear the atheistic scientists can claim to explain everything all around us, I just can't bring myself to believe that there is no God, no omnipotent creator, no intelligent design. Because we are just surrounded by so much perfection! 

 

Don't even get me started on the astronomical design the creator had laid out for us. Earth's perfect distance from our sun? The fact that Earth exists with the sun at just the right stage of it's life. Our position in the Milky Way galaxy. The fact that we are the only forms of life in a radius of possibly millions of lightyears. The fact that this universe had to have a beginning. The universe didn't always exist, and the big bang theories can easily prove that. Otherwise, according to second law of thermodynamics and the principle of entropy, the universe should've already ended in a hypothetical Heat Death.

 

Sorry for lecture. I just freakin love astronomy and physics.

 

Overall, it's impossible for me to deny the existence of an intelligent design. It's too miraculous to say that we have just come here out of the blue.

 

But sadly, I've recently been disagreeing more and more with what the Bible, specifically with what the new testament says. It's just hard for me to believe in all the historical accounts of all that happened being totally true, especially with Jesus Christ.

 

I believe he existed but such old history can only explain so much in detail. I do admire most, probably all of his teachings though. It has and still has it's effect on my life.

 

Maybe I'll come back to my Christian ways once I feel I get a better understanding out of it.

 

But for now, all I have to say is that I love all you guys so much. You're all so full of hope, and so nice, and I truly respect all that you believe. Christianity is best religion in my opinion.

 

I'm pretty sure I'm agnostic, maybe an agnostic Christian? If that's even a real term? lol

 

I know there has to be a God. I believe in one, no doubt about that. His creation and design is simply too divine and perfect for me to deny!

 

I just wanted to share my take on it.

 

So yeah, you guys get a lot of support and respect from me! 

 

Just maybe pray and wish me luck in trying to understand some aspects of it better. 

 

Thanks!

[Yellow Diamond 7,564]

This brings up an interesting point about "reverting back" to any particular flavor of theism.  Most formerly Christian atheists came to the conclusion that God does not (or cannot) exist after contemplating the evidence, counter-points and biases invested in the idea.  Such a person is about as likely to "revert back" to Christianity as they are likely to revert back to believing in Santa Claus as an adult.

 

Equating a belief in Santa Claus with the belief in God is a false equivalence at best, demeaning at worst. When belief in Santa Claus (presumably the commercial one, as Blue highlighted) becomes pertinent for salvation and gains its own level of theological discourse, maybe then that discussion can be held.

[Inactive01 5,298]

Much of modern singing has existed because of classical music that was rooted in the Roman Catholic Church in the Medieval Era. Many of the monks at the time created the system of A B C D E F G that we know today. They even created time signatures and staff lines. With that in mind, here's a hymn I personally love because of its march-like style. 

 

[PlunderSteed 1,251]

Equating a belief in Santa Claus with the belief in God is a false equivalence at best, demeaning at worst. When belief in Santa Claus (presumably the commercial one, as Blue highlighted) becomes pertinent for salvation and gains its own level of theological discourse, maybe then that discussion can be held.

 

You're right in the fact that no sane adult actually believes in Santa Claus.  A better comparison would be Zeus or Thor.  Very few modern people believe in them as deities.  Their very concept is rather silly by contemporary standards: magical super-beings with terrible powers, unfathomable motives and unknowable thoughts, yet always invisible and maddeningly unwilling to actually step up and speak directly to us in a way that can be proven to anybody aside from our own ego.

 

Nobody advocates for a world view based on those guys, and most atheists question why the God of the Bible should be treated any differently.  This is the anachronism that I was referring to with the Santa Claus reference.

[DusK 1,264]

Would you be up for sharing your personal experience?  It sounds like an interesting story.  What exactly happened during the three transitions (becoming Christian the first time, then dropping it, then picking it up again)?

Alright, back from va-cay, so I can answer this question my my extremely crazy sounding story that nobody really has any reason to believe but screw it, I'm tellin' it anyway.

 

To answer the question completely, I was first a Christian because I was a child. Really, that story's no different from many Christian-to-atheist experiences; kids are impressionable and such. I believed in that typical dogmatic "Bible is absolute truth, pastor trumps science, etc etc." stuff that really you'd have to be kinda dumb to believe because it was ingrained in me by parents and community. In high school, I gained a massive interest in various sciences, and that led me to question those beliefs. I ended up being an adamant and extremely vocal atheist for about somewhere between 5 and 6 years.

 

About 6 years ago, I went to a concert for a metalcore band my friends and all liked. Haste The Day; a Christian band. I wasn't a complete shut-out atheist, so I did listen to Christian music -- actually, music with any given message, I didn't discriminate -- if I felt the music itself was enjoyable. So we headed out like we sometimes do, and I really didn't think much of the day. I even cracked a few anti-Christian jokes on the way there. I was very much an atheist up to the moment I became a Christian; no "transition period" or anything like that.

 

During the show, some strange stuff happened. I felt like I was being watched. And not just like your typical mild paranoia; I felt like I could tangibly feel a presence in that room bearing down on me.

 

This feeling intensified when the lead vocalist expressed his willingness to talk to others about God after the show. I don't think I have to tell anyone here how argumentative a person who holds a belief closely can get, so in true "ARE YOU INQUIRING ABOUT A CHALLENGE?!" fashion, I decided to try my hand and making this guy fall over his own words and make him seem like a babbling idiot like I had already done to a few dogmatic Christians. I couldn't pass up the opportunity to claim victory over someone world-famous. So I approached him and we talked. But it was different. During that talk, that presence that I had been feeling earlier returned. And this guy didn't speak like any Christian I knew; everything he said was extremely atypical, and it actually made sense. The normal holes in logic and absurd justification for prejudice, or disdain for science simply wasn't there. Just before the conversation ended, he placed his hand on my right shoulder and said a short prayer, and as he did, I felt a hand on my other shoulder, just as real as anything, but when I looked over, nothing was there.

 

After that, I allowed him to lead me in prayer to accept Christ. Partially a leap of faith, I guess, but mainly because I couldn't rationalize everything that had been happening according to what I already believed. That hand stayed through my left shoulder throughout the entire prayer, and I remember exactly how it felt; it was a firmer grip than Stephen's hand, but extremely comforting. When the prayer ended, I felt extremely light, like a burden had been lifted off of my body. I still get those feelings when I pray in Jesus' name.

 

From a logical perspective, experience is valid, and I did what any reasonable person had done. If I had gone through that, experiencing definitive proof of God's existence, and still came out an atheist, I'd really be no better than your average fundamentalist. I feel like God knew that I was a person that required evidence before I could believe anything, so he saw fit to provide me evidence.

 

I don't know a lot about Him still, like why he'd choose to prove himself to me and not everyone, for example. And I still remain skeptical of the Bible on the whole, as any reasonable person would; even the best apologetics fall short of explaining all of the massive inconsistencies it has with both science and itself. But the one thing I can say for sure is that I know God is real, and my belief in Him isn't rooted in a misuse of the phrase "faith" construed to mean "hope that He exists", but rather a logical conclusion that came as a result of experience.

 

TL;DR: As an atheist, God proved His existence and a base aspect of Christianity to me, so when presented with evidence that my viewpoint was wrong, I did what any reasonable person would do when proven wrong and changed my beliefs. The end.

Edited August 25, 2013 by DusK

[Flutterspark 48]

@,

 

 

 

But sadly, I've recently been disagreeing more and more with what the Bible, specifically with what the new testament says. It's just hard for me to believe in all the historical accounts of all that happened being totally true, especially with Jesus Christ.   I believe he existed but such old history can only explain so much in detail. I do admire most, probably all of his teachings though. It has and still has it's effect on my life.

 

 

I really do like the fact that you choose to believe in a God.

 

But, why would a history book being "old" have any significance in your considerations of such a major topic as Christianity?

 

If you have a problem with the historical accuracy of the New Testament, you should check out this article:

 

Should we trust the Bible? - Creation Ministries International

 

@@DusK,

 

Really cool testimony! Certainly, personal experience is a very valid reason for holding any belief.

 

 

 

And I still remain skeptical of the Bible on the whole, as any reasonable person would; even the best apologetics fall short of explaining all of the massive inconsistencies it has with both science and itself.

 

The Bible has no inconsistencies with itself. If the Bible has inconsistencies, then I believe all of our faith is in vain, and our salvation is in vain. There is really no basis for God if the Bible cannot be considered His unerring word.

 

Inconsistencies with science? I'm assuming you're probably thinking of Evolution. Anyone can see that Evolution and the Bible are mutually exclusive. I personally dislike when people try to merge the two together: Christianity is a man's religion. It has no room for compromises.

 

If Evolution indeed puts science at odds with God's Word, then we should consider this: Is Evolution, dare I say it, wrong?

 

Enter Creation Ministries International and the organizations like it. Christian scientists who have created a rational, scientific explanation of the world around us that fits in with the Bible.

 

See: 

 

The 3 Rs of Evolution: Rearrange, Remove, Ruin—in other words, no evolution! - CMI 

 

 

 

You're right in the fact that no sane adult actually believes in Santa Claus.  A better comparison would be Zeus or Thor.  Very few modern people believe in them as deities.  Their very concept is rather silly by contemporary standards: magical super-beings with terrible powers, unfathomable motives and unknowable thoughts, yet always invisible and maddeningly unwilling to actually step up and speak directly to us in a way that can be proven to anybody aside from our own ego.

 

 

I enjoy your use of imagery, but the Greek and Nordic gods serve as terrible comparison to the God of Christianity.

 

Did Zeus give all of humanity a great wealth of knowledge on his nature and motives in the form of an easily accessible medium? The God of Christianity gave the Bible.

 

Did Thor send his one and only son to live a mortal yet blameless life on earth, and then to be tortured and killed unjustly, in order that every tribe and every nation could have eternal life? The God of Christianity did.

 

The stories of Zeus describe drunken revelry, rape and unjust destruction. The stories of the God of the Bible describe a terrible, yes, but perfect and beautiful God of love and mercy.

[DusK 1,264]

The Bible has no inconsistencies with itself. If the Bible has inconsistencies, then I believe all of our faith is in vain, and our salvation is in vain. There is really no basis for God if the Bible cannot be considered His unerring word.

Unless He exists, and the Bible was simply written by man. Not exactly an out-there concept.

 

Too many people put far too much stock in the Bible. If a person's ability to believe hinges significantly more (or even entirely) on a book instead of a personal relationship through trust and prayer, then really, any book is fair game, because there's no solid proof in any way that the Bible is "the absolute word of God", and certainly not "infallible". I prefer to put a personal relationship with Christ above a book that's "infallible" in name only, as I'll detail later in this post.

 

Furthermore, people insisting that people who don't revere that Bronze Age collection of texts are doing it wrong are themselves doing it wrong according to the very book they're revering (Romans 14:1-23).

 

The Bible contradicts itself on many occasions, the most notable being the massive inconsistencies in testimony on the death of Jesus between the various disciples.

 

Aside from these, there are smaller examples. For example, is God a God of peace (Romans 15:33) or a God of War (Exodus 15:3)? Is Joseph the son of Jacob (Matthew 1:16) or Heli (Luke 3:23)? If you're not for God, are you automatically against Him (Matthew 12:30), or if you aren't against God, are you automatically for Him (Luke 9:50)? The list of similar inconsistencies goes on for dozens of examples. If the Bible were indeed as perfect as people claim, not a single inconsistency would exist.

 

Inconsistencies with science? I'm assuming you're probably thinking of Evolution. Anyone can see that Evolution and the Bible are mutually exclusive. I personally dislike when people try to merge the two together: Christianity is a man's religion. It has no room for compromises.

 

If Evolution indeed puts science at odds with God's Word, then we should consider this: Is Evolution, dare I say it, wrong?

 

Enter Creation Ministries International and the organizations like it. Christian scientists who have created a rational, scientific explanation of the world around us that fits in with the Bible.

Firstly, I find it rather easy to rationalize a believe in evolution with Christianity, especially if one doesn't revere the Bible as the "perfect word of God" that others seem to.

 

Additionally, there's incontrovertible evidence supporting evolution. Mounds of it. The same cannot be said for creationism; it only exists inside the Bible.

 

Thirdly, Creation Ministries is far from scientific, and certainly not rational. They have zero credibility. The closest thing they have to a real scientist is the founder Carl Wieland, and his degree is in medicine; far from a field of any credibility regarding the subject at hand. This, compounded with their usage of the "reverse scientific method" (coming to a conclusion first, seeking out only answers that can be construed to fit that conclusion, and ignoring evidence opposed to the conclusion out entirely no matter how reliable or, in the case of the young-earth vs. old-earth debate, irrefutable) makes them far from reasonable.

 

Young earth creationism flies in the face of stuff we've known with 100% certainty to be true for the past few decades. It's essentially the modern equivalent of believing in a flat earth, and Creation Ministries, attempts to rationalize using pseudo-science and all, is not unlike the Flat Earth Society.

 

The stories of the God of the Bible describe a terrible, yes, but perfect and beautiful God of love and mercy.

Hosea 9:11-16

Numbers 5:11-21

Numbers 31:17

Hosea 13:16

2 Kings 15:16

1 Samuel 15:3

Psalms 135:8

Psalms 137:9

Leviticus 20:9

Judges 11:30-40

Psalms 137:8-9

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

Judges 19:24-29

Exodus 12:29

Exodus 20:9-10

2 Kings 2:23-24

Leviticus 26:30

Isaiah 13:15-18

Jeremiah 11:22-23

Jeremiah 19:7-9

Lamentations 2:20-22

Edited August 25, 2013 by DusK

[PlunderSteed 1,251]

Did Thor send his one and only son to live a mortal yet blameless life on earth, and then to be tortured and killed unjustly, in order that every tribe and every nation could have eternal life? The God of Christianity did.

 

That's basically the Osiris myth in a nutshell.  Christianity is not at all unique or original in its story of a deity's son being sent to save the faithful.  The Osiris thing had been around for thousands of years before Jesus walked earth.  Surely a reasonable person can see how an objective critic would consider both Jesus and Horus to be cut from the same fabric of a primitive peoples' attempt to find meaning in life.

[~Luminiferous Ether~ 107]

 

Don't even get me started on the astronomical design the creator had laid out for us. Earth's perfect distance from our sun? The fact that Earth exists with the sun at just the right stage of it's life. Our position in the Milky Way galaxy. The fact that we are the only forms of life in a radius of possibly millions of lightyears. The fact that this universe had to have a beginning. The universe didn't always exist, and the big bang theories can easily prove that. Otherwise, according to second law of thermodynamics and the principle of entropy, the universe should've already ended in a hypothetical Heat Death.

 

 

A few questions

 

We may be the only forms of sentient life we know, however there are extremophiles such as Tardigrades that can survive in space, while we have not encountered any aliens that we know of, that doesn't except their existence I don't believe.

 

Why would the Universe had already achieved maximum entropy?

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, just asking for some stuff. It's great to see people interested in Physics

[GreyScholar 1,584]

I mean no offense to those that seek to have a lovely debate and discussion but is this thread the right place for that?

 

The purpose of this thread is to seek out other Christian Bronies not to discuss the validity of the Bible and whether it can be considered without error or if perhaps over the years of translation, transcription, purposeful alteration, and time through the dark ages causes the Bible to have errors but still be the very valid Word of God.

Edited August 25, 2013 by EquestrianScholar