Furry discussion thread

[Dice The Titanic Brony 68]

I think its just because humans as a society who dosent deem anything ''normal'' they will hate.

That includes bronies and pegasisters.

But one day things will change i hope.

It would be better for all.

[ponyvangelist 732]

What Logic Dictates

 

Again. See my post two above this. Transitive property. Also called composition-division fallacy.

 

http://yourlogicalfa...sition-division for reference

I don't think Furries and Bronies are the same, but I do think both communities have a great deal in common and, being the newer fandom, Bronies could learn much from the experiences of Furry fans over the many long years they've been around.

Straw man argument. Also called misrepresenting someone's argument to make it easier to attack.

 

Your logical fallacy is: strawman

 

If we can resist the temptation to cloud the discussion with erroneous accusations of fallacy, all I'm saying is that there are many similarities between the two fandoms and some logical overlap.

 

I'm also saying Bronies can learn from the experiences of Furry fans. As seen right here in this thread, I think the symmetry between the attitudes of some Bronies toward Furries, and those of society at large toward Bronies, provides all the evidence anyone reasonably needs to see that.

[Guest]

I stated I was a Furry but have full equel respect for All Brony's and the Brony Fandom as a whole. I never stated that sex was imoral, nor did I say that a family show debases sex. If it did it would've probably have been on the news, and that it would'nt be much of a kids show as it's original intended demographic. In all respect of course.

 

I'm just going off of what you wrote, and that is this:

 

"The reason there seems to be more Furverts than Cloppers is because the Brony Fandom is based on bieng a fan of a show where it teaches good moral, love, toleration, and respect for everybody."

 

You are saying that, there are more "Furverts" than cloppers, due to the fact that MLP: FIM teaches "good morals, love, and toleration/respect for everybody." And when I said debases, I meant as in that fans of the show would feel a sudden urge to not be as "sex happy" as others, not that the show actually states that sex is bad.

[Night Shine 767]

 

~ Brony's are seen badly as cloppers? That's actually wrong there. Most people don't even know the term if you were to ask them. The negative thing Brony's are seen as is as overweight beard-necked or stringy creepy looking adult's wearing girly products while screaming their fandom at people. THAT'S what is actually shown. If asked about the perverse side of the fandom, most people outside of the scene looking in can see it happening but don't even know the terms such as clopping nor do they even have a sense of it being related to Furry's; that's just other people that know what a Furry is trying to rage at Brony's. (Furverts? I've never heard of that term, that's actually pretty funny)

 

 

Not that I want to argue with you, but I do want to point out a situation I am currently in on Youtube.

Here is a conversation I have been having with a certain misguided individual:

 

THIS PERSON:

"It's natural for an equinophiliac cult such as the Bronies to blame others and distance themselves other members of their group in order to make themselves look better in the public eye. The difference between a Clopper and a Brony is that the Clopper has publically announced his fetish while a Brony keeps it a secret.

It's sort of like how closet homosexuals hate open homosexuals; same concept."

 

MY RESPONSE:

"...except for the fact that being a "brony" does not necesitate a sexual fetish towards ponies. It only necesitates being a fan of a TV show which happens to include those ponies."

 

THEIR RESPONSE:

"Typically, a general fan of something carries no such label. I may like industrial metal. but I am in no way a rivethead. . Same applies to people who just like the show; they aren't labeled as "Bronies". Bronies are people who have an obsession of the show to the point where they pour themselves and their identity into it. These people carry this show to unhealthy levels in their life. They also attribute human/mystical qualities to a pony, an have a unnatural attraction to it (philia)."

[Ad Foedera Cresco 188]

You are saying that, there are more "Furverts" than cloppers, due to the fact that MLP: FIM teaches "good morals, love, and toleration/respect for everybody." And when I said debases, I meant as in that fans of the show would feel a sudden urge to not be as "sex happy" as others, not that the show actually states that sex is bad.

 

That's actually exaclty what I meant. What I meant as there are more furverts is that the FurFandom isn't based around an innocent show or anything innocent at all actually. The only thing MLP:FiM has that could even be called "sexual" is Spikes love for Rarity, Rarity's early fantasizing for the Prince at the Grand Galloping Gala, or more in detail, the way AppleJack sounded when she complimented Twilight's Nightmare Night costume. Other than that, there's nothing sexual at all really.

 

Also sorry if I seemed like I was getting aggrivated or angry, I really do type these in all equel respect

Edited August 12, 2012 by Trollestia-IV

[p51 15]

I find the idea of being a furry kinda creepy, which is probably why I'm not one. I don't have problems with people who are, but I really don't want to be one.

 

Why people hate them? Because, like most other hate, they're different from the the haters, which makes said haters mad.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Super_Nova

[Guest]

~snip~

 

They are trying to generalize an entire group, claiming that the only thing that could hold us together was a "secret" sexual aspect that is openly shared by some and disliked by the rest. I'd have to disagree with them, that is just one opinion among thousands, and it is just as wrong as all the rest. If there is one thing I've learned, its that generalizing just can never explain everyone, people are all just too different.

 

The way they put it as well, it sounds like they are making out to be almost like a "special club" and not just a label. There are no qualifications to be a brony, you could theoretically call yourself one without liking the show, labels just help us identify with other people and show off our interests.

 

Also, I am going to look up industrial metal now, it sounds good.

[Planty 1,053]

As a former furry and current brony, I disagree, but I still see where you're coming from.

 

I probably just only saw certain parts of the community--I only saw the sexual part of the furry community because that's why i was part of it, and I only now see the non-sexual part of the brony community because I'm in this for the show, not the Internet corrupting the show.

 

See that's the thing though--these comparisons make me uneasy because I feel like bronies are "different" from other internet groups because we're so pure. We are united by love of a moral, happy show instead of other things such as causing others anger (the trolls) and well, from my perspective, the furries are united by the fetish of being sexually attracted to human-like animals. That is, as I was until my love of MLP stopped my (furry) porn habit when I became a brony.

 

Don't get me wrong, i don't want to be cruel to a group of people on the internet indiscriminately, but the idea of bronies and furries being alike just rubs me the wrong way

 

I agree with this, it sum's up my feelings on this.

 

I also dislike the way everyone thinks that your a clopper if your a brony, which is just plainly not true

[Guest]

I really don't see why everyone freaks out over sexual content or sex in general. What is up with American society? Society acts like sex is some vile act that only perverts/whores ETC. are into. It is not right to have that view on sex.

 

I ask myself that question everyday...

 

I've never understood the mentality that sexual interests suddenly imply "creeper" or weird status. We're humans, sex is what we do. Its a natural part of life.

[Glaceon 793]

Well written. Good job.

IMO If you're a furry I will respect that. If you don't like ponies, I respect that too. The only time when I will get upset over somepony/body about something like this is when for example, you don't like ponies so you go to every pony related thing and start spewing foul things everywhere. If you don't like something fine. Just don't try to go insult everypony/body just cause you don't like it.

 

Personally I'm not really interested in furries, but if I meet somepony/body that's a furry I wont insult or hate them for it.

TL:DR Let people like what they want no need to insult or hate them because of it.

 

Another thing I want to point out.

Furries are accused of being perverts just because some of them are.

Bronies are accused of being sexually aroused by ponies just because some of them are.

This is a fallacy of hasty generalization. Just because some of them are doesn't mean they all are.

[sirseansy 87]

What Logic Dictates

 

 

I apologize for the random use of fallacy accusation. I'm trying them on for size for this next debate season.

However, The purpose of my post was just to connect yours with the other post I quoted, so Strawman doesn't really apply since I didn't actually try to represent your argument in any way.

 

I understand where you're coming from with the idea of learning from the experiences of the furries. This is entirely true.

 

What I'm basically saying is that, that logic could apply to almost any group. The similarities you mentioned also connect us to a goodly portion of the population of the world. The fact that we have cons, fanfiction, roleplay, and cosplay doesn't make our communities blood brothers. The similarities exist, but on a hugely broad scale.

[ponyvangelist 732]

The Differences That Make Us Alike

 

I apologize for the random use of fallacy accusation. I'm trying them on for size for this next debate season.

However, The purpose of my post was just to connect yours with the other post I quoted, so Strawman doesn't really apply since I didn't actually try to represent your argument in any way.

I'm pretty sure it's not a composition-division fallacy to point out similarities between two groups without concluding they are the same because of them. Sometimes pointing out similarities between two groups without concluding they are the same because of them is just pointing out similarities between two groups without concluding they are the same because of them.

 

I love the line about debate season, however, so I have to brohoof that.

 

What I'm basically saying is that, that logic could apply to almost any group. The similarities you mentioned also connect us to a goodly portion of the population of the world. The fact that we have cons, fanfiction, roleplay, and cosplay doesn't make our communities blood brothers. The similarities exist, but on a hugely broad scale.

Granted, some similarities are more broad than others. In many ways, I think Bronydom has more in common with Trekkers, for example, and most fandoms have many things in common with other special interest groups.

 

But a fondness for anthropomorphic animals is a far-from-universal feature for a fan community, and I think most Bronies know firsthand about the trials and tribulations of being pony fans.

 

With that in mind, I think it can be healthy for Bronies to recognize that while Furries are different, we do have much in common, and in acknowledging that, appreciate how it can feel when the shoe is on the other foot -- or paw is on the other hoof, as it were.

 

Mutual respect and understanding are never a bad thing, no matter what our differences.

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. I know you basically said the same thing about learning from the experiences of Furry fans, but I have an eccentric penchant for repeating things with more words.

Edited August 12, 2012 by ponyvangelist

[HorseBeFruit93 27]

I must say no to this, it's like comparing cats and dogs, one who doesn't understand says that they are both animals and are therefore the same thing when they clarely have different behaviour, intrests and apperance. They might work the same way, eating, playing, sleeping and "visiting the bathroom". What I'm saying is that you can find similarities in everything, even opposites, even if it's stupid, it's still a similarity.

 

What bronies differs from furries:

 

1. Kids friendly forums

2. Fandom based on one show

3. Non anthropromorphic avatars, art and so on. Only ponies, personallised ponies. Sure there are exceptions, aways will be. Furries have ferals, but you get my point.

4. Provide donations and raise money for the show we love.

 

In my opinion bronies aren't furries.

 

 

EDIT: Furries are part human, part animal, we are just ponies.

Edited August 12, 2012 by HorseBeFruit93

[KakeiTheWolf 652]

Let me put it very simply: Yes.

 

Why? Both fandoms are misunderstood, both are portrayed like crap in the media (Often as losers or sexual deviants), both have an affinity for some form of anthropomorphic animal (Realize that anthropomorphic indicates the possessing of any human qualities, such as talking and higher reasoning skills, along with a greater capacity for intelligence), both have small amounts of sexual deviants, both have an affinity for creating internal and external embodiments of non-physical beings with definitive characteristics (OCs for bronies, fursonas for furries), both have created a fairly large amount of disturbing art and fanfics, and the list can go on for a very long time.

 

Consider this diagram to more or less display the connection:

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------FURRIES---------------------------

------------------------------------|------------------------------

----------BRONIES___________________|_...--------------------------

-------------|-----------------------------------------------------

--L3=L2=L1___|___R1=R2=R3------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

For the branching off of the subgroups of the furry fandom, you have bronies and a continuation not detailed in this diagram containing all other groups of furries. The bronies split further into a spectrum, detailed by this key:

 

L1: Weak Liberal Group. This group pertains to a slighter stronger, somewhat less restrained and focused formation of the brony mindset. This would be the group containing ponyfags and consistent indulgers of the material outside of canon (Exempla Gratis - fanfics and the like).

R1: Weak Conservative group. This group pertains to a slightly weaker, somewhat more restrained and focused formation of the brony mindset. This would be the group containing half-bronies and the common forumgoer/chatter.

L2: Moderate Liberal Group. This group pertains to a notably stronger, notably less restrained and focused formation of the brony mindset. This would be the group containing significant pony media indulgers and media creators.

R2: Moderate Conservative Group. This group pertains to a notably weaker, notably more restrained and focused formation of the brony mindset. This would be the group containing base bronies and closet bronies.

L3: Strong Liberal Group. This group pertains to a significantly stronger, significantly less restrained and focused formation of the brony mindset. This would be the group containing cloppers and "pony jihads".

R3: Strong Conservative Group. This group pertains to a significantly weaker, significantly more restrained and focused formation of the brony mindset. This woule be the group containing non-bronies and basic fans.

 

Now, there is the same system for furries (only in a different wording), implying that the branch that is of the brony fanbase is not actually a branch, but rather a point on a spectrum, as points L1-L3 and R1-R3 would be on the brony spectrum. This means bronies are indeed furries, but are just a very specific type of furry.

[SugarSprinkledFox 69]

Let me put it very simply: Yes.

 

Why? Both fandoms are misunderstood, both are portrayed like crap in the media (Often as losers or sexual deviants), both have an affinity for some form of anthropomorphic animal (Realize that anthropomorphic indicates the possessing of any human qualities, such as talking and higher reasoning skills, along with a greater capacity for intelligence), both have small amounts of sexual deviants, both have an affinity for creating internal and external embodiments of non-physical beings with definitive characteristics (OCs for bronies, fursonas for furries), both have created a fairly large amount of disturbing art and fanfics, and the list can go on for a very long time.

 

Consider this diagram to more or less display the connection:

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------FURRIES---------------------------

------------------------------------|------------------------------

----------BRONIES___________________|_...--------------------------

-------------|-----------------------------------------------------

--L3=L2=L1___|___R1=R2=R3------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

For the branching off of the subgroups of the furry fandom, you have bronies and a continuation not detailed in this diagram containing all other groups of furries. The bronies split further into a spectrum, detailed by this key:

 

L1: Weak Liberal Group. This group pertains to a slighter stronger, somewhat less restrained and focused formation of the brony mindset. This would be the group containing ponyfags and consistent indulgers of the material outside of canon (Exempla Gratis - fanfics and the like).

R1: Weak Conservative group. This group pertains to a slightly weaker, somewhat more restrained and focused formation of the brony mindset. This would be the group containing half-bronies and the common forumgoer/chatter.

L2: Moderate Liberal Group. This group pertains to a notably stronger, notably less restrained and focused formation of the brony mindset. This would be the group containing significant pony media indulgers and media creators.

R2: Moderate Conservative Group. This group pertains to a notably weaker, notably more restrained and focused formation of the brony mindset. This would be the group containing base bronies and closet bronies.

L3: Strong Liberal Group. This group pertains to a significantly stronger, significantly less restrained and focused formation of the brony mindset. This would be the group containing cloppers and "pony jihads".

R3: Strong Conservative Group. This group pertains to a significantly weaker, significantly more restrained and focused formation of the brony mindset. This woule be the group containing non-bronies and basic fans.

 

Now, there is the same system for furries (only in a different wording), implying that the branch that is of the brony fanbase is not actually a branch, but rather a point on a spectrum, as points L1-L3 and R1-R3 would be on the brony spectrum. This means bronies are indeed furries, but are just a very specific type of furry.

 

I... I think I love you. You took the words right outta my mouth. More bronies and furries need to read this.

[KakeiTheWolf 652]

I... I think I love you. You took the words right outta my mouth. More bronies and furries need to read this.

 

Easy there, pal...

 

And, quite honestly, that was all based off of everything I've observed of the two groups (Which, considering my obsession with researching fandoms before and after I get into the, is quite a bit).

[sirseansy 87]

The Differences That Make Us Alike

 

 

Alrighty then. Point made.

 

The question now is: is you is, or is you ain't a debater? seeing as how you brohoofed my post about being one and all.

[Acheron187 1]

In all cases I've seen all fandoms are exactly the same, furry, brony, trekkie, etc. We all like one peticular thing and enjoy art, media, and mechandise made about it. All fandoms also have there dark sides(Which actually makes up a very small percentage of the fandoms), R34 affects all even M*A*S*H. The only difference we have is that we all like one centraly different thing.

[ponyvangelist 732]

Begging To Differ

 

The question now is: is you is, or is you ain't a debater? seeing as how you brohoofed my post about being one and all.

Is it even possible to post in a discussion forum without being a debater?

 

 

 

 

(Well, yeah. But that's not nearly as much fun now, is it?)

[ponyvangelist 732]

That's the spirit! Give 'em hell! Show them there's no place in this world for anyone who's different. Prove your superiority!

 

And most important of all, HATE them for not being YOU.

 

I'm sure that would make a wonderful letter to Princess Celestia.

[John 793]

That's the spirit! Give 'em hell! Show them there's no place in this world for anyone who's different. Prove your superiority!

 

And most important of all, HATE them for not being YOU.

 

I'm sure that would make a wonderful letter to Princess Celestia.

 

Honestly, I can't tell if i'm sorry or not.. Every hour I spend on this site, I see mass quantities of furies and I can't stand it anymore.. I don't like what they do, not because they are different, but because it gives me a bad feeling deep within the depths of my inner being. (Deep but true no pun intended) I only respect the ones that don't constantly have to talk about it. This isn't a furry forums..

Edited August 13, 2012 by John

[000 206]

I dont really care at all! I just ignore it and pretend everything is fine.

 

"I vote for calm" - Fluttershy

[John 793]

I dont really care at all! I just ignore it and pretend everything is fine.

 

"I vote for calm" - Fluttershy

 

I can't because it bothers me. Furries just wan't too have a "link" to bronies because honestly bronies are portrayed better in popular culture. (not all of the time, but I would say most of the time.)

I don't want to be called a "furry" because I don't like furies, and I don't want to be the least bit associated with them. For them to try to relate themselves to bronies constantly eats away at me...

Edited August 13, 2012 by John

[Laydee Kaze 400]

*sigh*

 

1. This topic has been discussed SO many times on this forum. You should have searched before posting, and would have seen a fair few threads about furries and such. I think every debate thread has peoples opinions on this topic.

 

2. They are two different fandoms.

 

3. Ponies are NOT anthropomorphic. The furry fandom mainly consists of people who enjoy anthropomorphised animals.

 

4. The furry fandom is about 70% sexual, 30% clean. [i know this from experience of being in that fandom for a long time, which I left in like, January this year]

 

5. Going on about fandoms, they are two seperate things entirely. One is based off many things, from spiritual, to physical (Fursuiting), to art. The other is based off a show, and art/animation. There are similar things, such as original characters, but you can have that in any fandom. For example, harry potter fans have wizard OC's that are in specific houses, etc.

 

6. There are people who are in/like both fandoms, but that doesn't mean that everyone is, or has to be, just because of a few similarities. A SHIT LOAD of people on here seem to be doctor who fans/in the doctor who fandom. Doesn't mean everyone is or has to be, just because they like it.

 

:I Now seriously, use the search function in future.

 

Edit: Just saw John's posts now and I completely agree with him. The furry fandom has, and now always will be portrayed in a negative way, in terms of sexual stuff... but to be completely honest, it is. You make a fur affinity account, and set your account to view mature art. I guarantee you that every seach page you load will have something sexual in it.

 

Also just because you have an avatar that is based off an animal, doesn't mean it relates you to furries at all. Ponies are Ponies. Surprisingly enough, they're style, etc, is based off MLP, not a normal horse. It's like saying having a pokemon OC makes you a furry too. No. Shut up.

 

But I also, can't stand furries joining forums and kicking up shit storms like 'omg I'm a furry!' yep. Nobody gives a... well you get my opinion. It's unnecessary. Also, John, don't worry. The brony fandom is always shown in a much nicer light than furries, because it's based off a childs program. You'll get the odd 'omg that guy clops', but seriously, how often do you hear that, in comparison to stuff like 'Fluttershy is best pony' or similar.

 

 

All in all, John is right. This is a MLP forum. Furries need to stop posting thinking they're the next thing, just because they're in a different fandom as well as this one.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Laydee Kaze

[Guest]

Honestly, I can't tell if i'm sorry or not.. Every hour I spend on this site, I see mass quantities of furies and I can't stand it anymore.. I don't like what they do, not because they are different, but because it gives me a bad feeling deep within the depths of my inner being. (Deep but true no pun intended) I only respect the ones that don't constantly have to talk about it. This isn't a furry forums..

 

Well I'm sorry you feel that way. I am quite interested to know what about us disgusts you so much, simply because I don't understand exactly why? Also, I don't like to know that I give people a "bad feeling," so generally if I know I do, I'd like to understand why.

 

~With interest in understanding, your feathery comrade, Nevermore

 

I can't because it bothers me. Furies just wan't too have a "link" to bronies because honestly bronies are portrayed better in popular culture. (not all of the time, but I would say most of the time.)

I don't want to be called a "furry" because I don't like furies, and I don't want to be the least bit associated with them. For them to try to relate themselves to bronies constantly eats away at me...

 

I am leaving my above question because I am not sure if this truly answers it or not, but I will continue anyway.

 

I have yet to see many people actually fully link the two groups. I always say they are just labels, brony and furry alike, you only are what you choose to be.