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Sombra was based off Sauron


Mywas

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(edited)

To be fair about the whole "lack of dialogue/background" thing, many of the most interesting characters in fiction are the ones that reveal the least about themselves...i.e., aren't insufferable windbags who have to take an expository dump all over the audience every 5 seconds.

 

It's kind of why I prefer Michael Keaton's Batman over Christian Bale's Batman; Bale analyzed his own character to death in the movie (not to mention his constant over-the-top growling made him seem like a campy blowhard), whereas Keaton's Batman largely remained shrouded in mystery, not always revealing his motives to others...which made him the far more intriguing Batman, IMO.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I'm a fan of the combined storytelling forces of "less is more" and "show, don't tell". Of course, maybe they didn't exactly pull it off perfectly with Sombra, but I can definitely appreciate what they were trying to do with him. Still better that than going with the typical "Bond villain" BS I've seen a million-and-one times before.

 

...But yeah, I can totally agree with everypony about his design. Not exactly what I'd call threatening, personally, with those wispy purple 'eyelash' things.

 

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Edited by Lowline Thrash
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I liked that he didn't say anything - because all the villains just talk much and bore everyone revealing their own plans. He wasted no time, but has focused on action.
In case of Sauron we also couldn't see clearly all of his actions.
Yes, Sombra character was poorly developed. Unlike other villains his story should be better told by other ponies or Mane 6 should found some more hints about him during exploring the castle.

His design - well, he look better on fanarts.

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(edited)

I think the idea behind Sombra might've worked better if he hadn't been the midway mark between a sentient villain (like discord or NNM) and mindless entity (like darkness or any force of nature). If he had gone full villain mode, his personality would make up for lack unstoppable presence. If he had gone full evil entity mode, his presence as a seemingly-unstoppable force of nature would have been satisfying enough for him not to require any characterization. Instead, he was written as both.The villains are only interesting because of their character, and the mindless evil entities are only scary because the seem so unstoppable. Sombra was a villain who lacked character and didn't seem quite like an unstoppable force of nature because he was still bound to a somewhat-mortal body and mind. Because of this, he lacked the extreme qualities that make both types of villains so effective.

I liked that the writers were experimenting with their villain types though and trying new things. Sombra is definitely the most unique of the villains and I respect him and the writers in that aspect. But its just that as an experimental villain, i don't think he was very effective :huh:

Also, i can't compare him to Sauron because i haven't actually seen lord of the rings, lol. just explaining my thoughts on why i think he wasn't an effective villain or character.

Edited by crazitaco

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(edited)

Having no personality does not equal failing as a villain.

You're dead wrong again. If you want to create a great villain, you need great characterization, too. You can't sacrifice one to emphasize the other; you'll result in making the villain extremely implausible, unmemorable, and flat as a personality.

 

This is Sombra's problem, both in the canon and from an objective quality writing perspective. We're told he's evil, but there's a big difference between showing how evil he is and telling. The lone instance where his evil really came into play was the Door of Illusions, where Twilight's worst fear at the time came to life. But what else about present day? What would make him so menacing today, whenever the ponies (Mane Six or otherwise) encountered him, they would be feared by what he does, his personality, and what he can do?

 

It's simple: We don't see it. His full personality is nonexistent, which means the exposition must rely to inform the audience and citizens of The Crystal Empire how evil he is. He's a power-hungry, controlling, brooding villain with no motive other than to be evil, a "personality" I see all too often in amateur and professional work. Moreover, Sombra had just his past actions and presence to "appear" scary, a cliché in itself. The flashback of him holding the Crystal Ponies hostage ain't cutting it. Besides the door, there's literally nothing to show how scary he is nor experience it fulfillingly. That's bad writing and makes for a clichéd, boring villain.

 

This is completely different with the likes of, say, Discord. We know he's evil, but we're shown how evil he can be, both by the way he behaved when dancing in the stained glass windows and the hell he put Canterlot and Ponyville in. He's hilarious and unpredictable. He'll put anyone in misery so he can toy with them and have fun. He plays in-your-face mind games with his adversaries while he's in front of them (compared to Sombra who laid his games out while everything but his Horcrux-like soul was ravaged) just to make them his puppets. That's how much of a bastard the God of Chaos can be. His evil characterization heightened his actions and purpose. His actions and purpose heightened his evil characterization. There's a balance between the two qualities. Beneath his randomness and hilarity, he's genuinely scary.

 

I'm not into Adventure Time, so I can't comment on the villain, but one I can compare with (and an antagonist who does a hell of a lot better being scary than Sombra despite not having a voice): the Dementors from the Harry Potter series. These guards slunk and scared the hell out of the audience by J.K. Rowling writing vivid descriptions of one of Harry's darkest memories. They were evil, but we were shown how evil they were by being independent, causing the environment to depress, and making lives (especially Harry) hell. The Dementors don't speak, but they have personalities and motives to be evil along with the ability to show how menacing they are.

 

Discord and the Dementors show their evil, have motives to be evil, and are unique in what, how, and why they're evil. Sombra's evil is mostly told (the Door being the lone exception) and has a personality equivalent to cardboard.

Edited by Dark Qiviut

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I do think that Sombra has/had great potential for being a villain, but unfortunately he does come off as a bad villain/character. I want to know so much more about him as well.


 

On 4/22/2016 at 6:16 PM, The Nightly Spectre said:

One does not ask why The Questioner is awesome. One should instead ask their gods if they ever compare to the awesomeness of the one and only Questioner.

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Ok yeah many of people love Sombra for who he is, saying he's a great character and all.. But if he didn't say a word, what character DOES he have?

I may be mistaken in this, but from what you have written it seems you think that dialog is the only way to convey characteristics. This is not so. There are many things that help establish a characters attitude, like and dislikes ect. Body langauge is key. Past actions are also indicative of character. 

 

Sombra didn't say much, However he did perform many deeds that say things about what kind of pony he was. One thing we cant say for with absolute certainty is his motivation. I think we can say it wasn't simply a matter of being rich Considering his self appointed king status. we know King Sombra was an intelligent villian as well as a powerfull one. He used his power to wipe the memories of all of the Crystal ponies so they would be unable to use their only defense. He also eliminated or tried to eliminate all reference to said line of defense. He also had a huge contingency plan in case of his defeat. He cast a spell so powerful that not even the royal sisters could stop it. A spell that banished an entire empire and all its residents from reality, or sent them forward in time. 

 

His traps say something about him as well. He was also a creative and cruel pony. Instead of using brute force he turned a pony's own fear against them. He creates a stair case that cant be climbed without the use of gravity spells. He also hides the Crystal heart in the heart of the once great empire, right in front of them. They don't know its there but if even if they did they could not reach it. I think this shows that King Sombra love to absolutely dominate the crystal ponies in pretty much every way. He dominated them physically using them as slaves and mentally by wiping their minds and sending them into inescapable disrepair. 

 

His appearance also I think this is echoed in his appearance. His appearance seems to be affected by his magic. This isn't new as we have seen this in Celestia, Nightmare Moon, and Luna. He seems to be corrupted by dark magic. Considering his characteristics mentioned above he seems completely obsessed with power and control. 

 

TLDR

 Considering all of his past deeds King Sombra is a really powerful, cruel, and intelligent being. He's obsessed with power and control, and controls his slaves both physically and mentally. He revels in dangling his slave's only salvation right in front of their noses knowing they cant even remember it. 

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With the other villains, despite some may claim, we have more insight to them

 

Chrysalis didn't really even need to explain. In a way, she's rather scary. She broke into a castle, impersonated a PRINCESS, and got away with it until she did angered Twilight. If i wasn't for Twilight raging on the crystals, she would still be Cadence and hell would have honestly taken hold.  That and her untold past and personality brings me in. Unlike Sombra and NNM, she had an army to feed. She feeds off of love. I'm sure she wasn't just going to be there just for taking the world over, it was also because she also needs to eat. It sort of makes you curious about the changelings. She has two missions and she's not afraid to kill of ponies for her goals. She's a cold and calculated. She managed to do so much with in how long? She knew the whole castle layout, played the ponies like fools, and sat back and watched Twilight dig her own grave between her and her friends.

 

Discord was the GOD of Chaos. Chaos is a neutral, it has no enemy. This made me love him too. He cares only about himself and how entertaining it is for the ponies to suffer. It doesn't matter the Elements of Harmony, he just mind fucks them but saying sweet little nothings and then they do the rest. If there was more time, he would mind fuck them again, but like anything, they cheated and gave him that end fast. He doesn't honestly care who you are, he'll still do shit. He's unpredictable and very powerful. This is one villain that didn't NEED to be shown a lot like Sombra but can dominate without it and still pull of scary. He's also really open. He doesn't have a set goal, which makes it scary. What will he do next?

 

Nightmare Moon was scary because she bucking made it eternal night. It was a better version of what Mr.Burns did. She had this past that showed something, even later. She didn't ask whether ponies feared her night, she didn't need to, dreams showed it. She was so angry, her jealousy made her into a horrible pony. Its like the visual representation of what jealous actually does to a person in a way. It twists the body and soul. It doesn't NEED to have that logical side, Jealousy isn't exactly smart nor always right.  Just the whole eternal night should be feared. Having no balance between Night and day would kill the ponies off throughout the WHOLE land, not just one area.She would have caused massive starvation, nutrients wouldn't be had as much (some nutrients are better absorbed when sunlight hits you) and water would be harder to deal with. THAT right there is scary.

 

Sunset Shimmer would take over a whole damn universe (alternate) and no person would stop her because of the lack of powers.

 

Its all about timing and how long the show has to show the villain.

 

Even minor bad guys like Trixie, Flim and Flam, Iron Will, etc, they weren't exactly all that bad if you looked deeper too.

 

Flim and Flam weren't lying about their machine, they were right. The only problem was the amount they'd get. If they didn't get scared, they would have won.

 

Trixie was confronted by the ponies during their OOC moment of hostility. Despite her gloating and her cockiness during her show, she wasn't a bad pony. In fact, if you saw the crowd, only 5 mares out of the rest were really upset. You can call her bad due to humiliating them, but when you bad mouth, back talk and confront them all on your stage, its not humiliation, your out for a fight. (Not counting Magic Duel. I didn't like her then since she was fueled more on the Alicorn Amulet and wasn't herself)

 

Iron Will had extreme methods, maybe, of showing what to do to not get bullied or be a push over, but his methods usually did work. Fluttershy just took it to the extreme and got really aggressive and physical with it,  but that doesn't mean he was at fault fully.

 

Its based on what he does and how he looks. Honestly, he doesn't do much PRESENTLY to get me scared and his design just looks bad. I don't like him but he's not on my hated list either. 

 

I mean, in a way, can't the ponies themselves be villains? Twilight managed a spell that made the marks reverse and ultimately destroying what they had done in the process in their own minds. It made them sorta....a shell of themselves? You strip them of their identity almost by giving them a destiny that isn't their's and forcing them into something they don't/can't grow upon, so you're left wondering "why can't I get this right?" They were miserable and by extension, the town was too. Twilight in that moment even though she didn't want to be, was a villain. THAT is a good villain idea and its rather scary too.


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