movies/tv Jedi or Sith

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Yep, I prefer the Jedi philosophy!

 

Seeking knowledge and wisdom, tempering one's emotions, and altruistic love for others? Sounds like my kind of idea!

 

Funny you should mention love as it's the one thing that both organizations are in agreement on. In that they are against it. 

 

The Jedi say it leads to attachment, which leads to jealousy, which leads to frustration, and so on and so forth . . . .

 

While the Sith hold that love creates satisfaction and therefore, stagnation. 

 

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

 

I would also note that the Sith code does not forbid love either. The organization does, but that wouldn't be the first time policy is in direct contrast to founding principle.

[AlicornAcolyte 254]

 

 

The Jedi say it leads to attachment, which leads to jealousy, which leads to frustration, and so on and so forth . . . .

 

I see that! I was thinking more love in an altruistic sense. I guess that would entail selfless love for people in general. A humanistic love! 

[Steel Accord 6,660]

I see that! I was thinking more love in an altruistic sense. I guess that would entail selfless love for people in general. A humanistic love! 

 

No I knew what you meant, it was just the buzzword "love" that got me thinking.

 

Yes the Jedi are certainly for compassionate love, not the romantic kind. Yet they strangely don't stop padawans and their masters from forming an attachment to each other. Funny, you would think that would be a priority for them.

 

If you've not known your parents but you've lived, traveled, and been taught by this person for your formative years and beyond; it's only natural you would develop paternal love for them. Just as well, the Master might see a reciprocated feeling of son or daughterhood toward their pupil.

 

Now, if a Sith or some other enemy kills the master, how is the student expected to feel?!

 

"There is no emotion, there is peace."

 

You can at least understand why I choose the Sith. Emotions can lead to evil, but they can also lead to happiness. And I'd rather live and die striving to attain and spread happiness, then let someone I love be killed and be told I'm not supposed to feel grief.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Steel Accord

[AlicornAcolyte 254]

The master-padawan relationship has lead to some unfortunate situations, right? Precisely the type of conflicts that the avoidance of attachment seeks to prevent?

 

I always felt like the Sith philosophy, like a few other ideas we've discussed, has been flanderized by casual fans, and is a bit deeper than is commonly alluded to. It isn't explicitly "evil," per se,

 

Emotions can be used for good. That is something the Sith philosophy can be used for. I just feel more comfortable as a stoic, unattached arbiter of logic, if that makes sense.

[~Silver Essence~ 2,625]

I guess bounty hunter since I'm neutral. JK

 

But mainly Jedi, I may be serious or dark provoking, but I want to become a hero and a good guy for the better. 

[man dude man 555]

I used to favor the sith. I even got a damn collar bone tat that says "Never Peace, Only Passion". However, my life has changed a lot since that time, and now I would have to believe that there is a sense of peace in accepting serenity and the good it has to offer all. I am sure the Sith sounds a lot more inspiring to those in pursuit of a dream, or through the eyes of the opressed, and such, but a rise to power always results in the same twisted outlooks on what it takes to hold on to it. I guess what I am saying is the feeling of "letting go", is a very tranquil thing.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

I guess bounty hunter since I'm neutral. JK

 

But mainly Jedi, I may be serious or dark provoking, but I want to become a hero and a good guy for the better. 

 

You can be Sith, and still be a hero. Remember, the point of the thought experiment is to remove notions of good and evil and ask which of these you are or identify more strongly with.

[GrauWitz 1,010]

Definetly wanna be a Sith lord! Why? Because the Jedi policy is so bucking unfair! Marraige is forbidden to all Jedi and you're not allowed to own jewellery, what.... the.... buck. Oh yeah, and their mentality is that if you have feelings, you will turn evil. Screw them guys, I want FREEDOM!

 

The Sith, on the other hand, allow you do to what you want, you get cooler Force powers and a RED LIGHTSABER! (red is my favourite colour)

[Steel Accord 6,660]

I used to favor the sith. I even got a damn collar bone tat that says "Never Peace, Only Passion". However, my life has changed a lot since that time, and now I would have to believe that there is a sense of peace in accepting serenity and the good it has to offer all. I am sure the Sith sounds a lot more inspiring to those in pursuit of a dream, or through the eyes of the opressed, and such, but a rise to power always results in the same twisted outlooks on what it takes to hold on to it. I guess what I am saying is the feeling of "letting go", is a very tranquil thing.

 

One doesn't have to achieve power, or indeed retain it, through dishonest means.

 

"Quicker, easier, more seductive." Master Yoda says. That is the way of the Dark Side, but not necessarily the way of the Sith. To desire power is not, on it's own merit, evil; it's what you do to attain it that defines your morality.

 

I do applaud you for coming to such a realization though. It takes wisdom to question one's own outlook.

[~Silver Essence~ 2,625]

You can be Sith, and still be a hero. Remember, the point of the thought experiment is to remove notions of good and evil and ask which of these you are or identify more strongly with.

 

You can be Sith, and still be a hero. Remember, the point of the thought experiment is to remove notions of good and evil and ask which of these you are or identify more strongly with.

In that case, I would go with Sith.

 

I look, sound, act, and like evil and tempting chaos, but looks can deceive many.

 

I'm more of a guy who looks different, but is exactly the opposite of what most think.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Definetly wanna be a Sith lord! Why? Because the Jedi policy is so bucking unfair! Marraige is forbidden to all Jedi and you're not allowed to own jewellery, what.... the.... buck. Oh yeah, and their mentality is that if you have feelings, you will turn evil. Screw them guys, I want FREEDOM!

 

The Sith, on the other hand, allow you do to what you want, you get cooler Force powers and a RED LIGHTSABER! (red is my favourite colour)

 

Uhhhh right.

 

Keep in mind, the powers bestowed by the Force can be used by either Sith or Jedi. The Jedi simply hold that the emotions it takes to evoke lightning or similar are dangerous. Likewise the Sith usually lack the calm, subtlety, and nuance to perform a mind trick.

 

I do understand where you are coming from though. The Jedi fear emotions on an institutional level, to the point of paranoia. The Sith, as ruthless as they often are, revel in aspiration and excitement.

 

"Adventure, excitement, a Jedi craves not these things."

 

Then I could never be a Jedi.

In that case, I would go with Sith.

 

I look, sound, act, and like evil and tempting chaos, but looks can deceive many.

 

I'm more of a guy who looks different, but is exactly the opposite of what most think.

 

That, my friend, is the appeal of the Light Sith.

 

All the trappings, minions, powers, and tools of evil; while still fighting the good fight.

[CT-1138 3,182]

All these people turning to the dark side. My mind turns to only one song....

[man dude man 555]

One doesn't have to achieve power, or indeed retain it, through dishonest means.

 

"Quicker, easier, more seductive." Master Yoda says. That is the way of the Dark Side, but not necessarily the way of the Sith. To desire power is not, on it's own merit, evil; it's what you do to attain it that defines your morality.

 

I do applaud you for coming to such a realization though. It takes wisdom to question one's own outlook.

If you have ever hurt somepony, you give yourself countless excuses of reassurance, and try to justify your means. That is the lie of passion, you do whatever you feel is necessary to embrace an image of self perfection, and through those eyes compassion is a sign of weakness. I guess I can thank the ponies of the Jedi Counsel haha, that really made me rethink a lot about all of the wisdom I have been subconciously rejecting through out my life, because in our world based on competition we often forget how the other party feels in fear of feeling the way that they do now becasue of our own actions taken to avoid said feeling.  There is no lie in tranquility, there is no lie in peace, for peace is a perfection that denies even the thought of pride, there is nothing to boast about, there is nothing to fear, there are no grudges to hold, nothing but peace. I'm your typical "reformed bad guy", the chaotic good charcter I guess lol.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

The master-padawan relationship has lead to some unfortunate situations, right? Precisely the type of conflicts that the avoidance of attachment seeks to prevent?

 

I always felt like the Sith philosophy, like a few other ideas we've discussed, has been flanderized by casual fans, and is a bit deeper than is commonly alluded to. It isn't explicitly "evil," per se,

 

Emotions can be used for good. That is something the Sith philosophy can be used for. I just feel more comfortable as a stoic, unattached arbiter of logic, if that makes sense.

 

Exactly! That is a major part of why I made this thread. To look at these two groups without the prejudice of who is the hero or villain and just look at them as systems of spirituality and conduct.

 

Likewise, while I could never be a true Jedi, they are right in many respects. They teach their padawans with compassion and understanding in a caring and constructive environment. The Sith Academy is like a religious version boot camp where no one cares if you die. Hardly a way to encourage hopeful acolytes or keep your numbers high.

[CT-1138 3,182]

In the spirit of the current Jedi VS Sith argument, remember what Skywalker had to say about the Sith through his teachings of the Jedi: 

"The Sith rely on their passion for their strength. They think inward, only about themselves ... The Jedi are selfless; they only care about others." 

 

That is the nature of the Dark Side: selfishness. The Sith embrace it, twist it, use it as a power grab. The Jedi do not forbid passion, they do not forbid emotion, and the New Jedi Order even accepted marriage (Grand Master Skywalker himself married). The Sith seek knowledge in order to use it in their quest for immortality and the enslavement of others. They use it to gain control and maintain dictatorship over others. The Jedi welcome others to seek out the knowledge that the Jedi possess. The Jedi are willing to share their Archives with any who comes asking. If you really want to compare the Sith and the Jedi, look at their treatment of knowledge, not their treatment of emotion. The Jedi want a force user to control their emotions, not have emotions control a force user. A user of the force who lets his emotions override his logic is a very dangerous being. That being becomes a danger to themselves and every other creature around them. That is the dark side. Suffering. Pain. Evil. 

Edited March 31, 2014 by Dinos4Ever

[Steel Accord 6,660]

If you have ever hurt somepony, you give yourself countless excuses of reassurance, and try to justify your means. That is the lie of passion, you do whatever you feel is necessary to embrace an image of self perfection, and through those eyes compassion is a sign of weakness. I guess I can thank the ponies of the Jedi Counsel haha, that really made me rethink a lot about all of the wisdom I have been subconciously rejecting through out my life, because in our world based on competition we often forget how the other party feels in fear of feeling the way that they do now becasue of our own actions taken to avoid said feeling.  There is no lie in tranquility, there is no lie in peace, for peace is a perfection that denies even the thought of pride, there is nothing to boast about, there is nothing to fear, there are no grudges to hold, nothing but peace. I'm your typical "reformed bad guy", the chaotic good charcter I guess lol.

 

Competition doesn't have to mean "cut-throat" nor does it mean the loosing party is injured beyond recovery. If I were in a contest and lost, yeah it would hurt, but I don't hold the guy who beat me responsible. I wasn't good enough to win whatever it was we were doing.

 

If he cheats, that's a different story. Then his victory was attained with no relevance to whatever skills were being tested. 

 

Likewise if I won the competition, no need to belittle or hold the victory over the other guy's head. That's just being a sore winner. What if my image of self-perfection is one where I'm venerated for my temperance just as much as my strength? Then bringing undue harm to others would contradict my goal and lead to me being nothing more than a thug.

 

I'm your typical, "may the best pony win" chaotic good character, you see.

[man dude man 555]

Competition doesn't have to mean "cut-throat" nor does it mean the loosing party is injured beyond recovery. If I were in a contest and lost, yeah it would hurt, but I don't hold the guy who beat me responsible. I wasn't good enough to win whatever it was we were doing.

 

If he cheats, that's a different story. Then his victory was attained with no relevance to whatever skills were being tested. 

 

Likewise if I won the competition, no need to belittle or hold the victory over the other guy's head. That's just being a sore winner. What if my image of self-perfection is one where I'm venerated for my temperance just as much as my strength? Then bringing undue harm to others would contradict my goal and lead to me being nothing more than a thug.

 

I'm your typical, "may the best pony win" chaotic good character, you see.

I understand, and by your moral compass I would more than likely champion for the same cause as you, although I mix my sense of compassion when dealing with people that are cut throat. I used to be said person, so I know better than to trust that person or to show them more compassion than they deserve. I am someone that can accept defeat, to someone that is respectable, and that champions good, and right for all, but I could not accept being defeated if I knew it meant someone would be harmed in the following events of my defeat.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

In the spirit of the current Jedi VS Sith argument, remember what Skywalker had to say about the Sith through his teachings of the Jedi: 

"The Sith rely on their passion for their strength. They think inward, only about themselves ... The Jedi are selfless; they only care about others." 

 

That is the nature of the Dark Side: selfishness. The Sith embrace it, twist it, use it as a power grab. The Jedi do not forbid passion, they do not forbid emotion, and the New Jedi Order even accepted marriage (Grand Master Skywalker himself married). The Sith seek knowledge in order to use it in their quest for immortality and the enslavement of others. They use it to gain control and maintain dictatorship over others. The Jedi welcome others to seek out the knowledge that the Jedi possess. The Jedi are willing to share their Archives with any who comes asking. If you really want to compare the Sith and the Jedi, look at their treatment of knowledge, not their treatment of emotion. The Jedi want a force user to control their emotions, not have emotions control a force user. A user of the force who lets his emotions override his logic is a very dangerous being. That being becomes a danger to themselves and every other creature around them. That is the dark side. Suffering. Pain. Evil. 

 

But not all Sith embrace the Dark Side so rigidly; if for nothing but purely practical reasons.

 

Darth Plaugeis the wise, whom Palpatine mentioned during that very conversation, wanted to reform the Sith. His first action was to abolish the Rule of Two, he wanted to achieve immortality and rule the galaxy benevolently in concert with his apprentice.

 

Unfortunately, that apprentice was Sidious.

 

"Everything that has transpired has been according to my design."

 

Bullshit, Palpatine! Your master did all the work, you just hijacked his plan!

 

It's true, while Plaugeis studied and experimented, trying to invent a method to create and sustain life (a noble pursuit in my book) Palpatine was playing politician and gathering support. You can see why Sidious had to kill his master in his sleep, a Master who held nothing but respect for his apprentice.

I understand, and by your moral compass I would more than likely champion for the same cause as you, although I mix my sense of compassion when dealing with people that are cut throat. I used to be said person, so I know better than to trust that person or to show them more compassion than they deserve. I am someone that can accept defeat, to someone that is respectable, and that champions good, and right for all, but I could not accept being defeated if I knew it meant someone would be harmed in the following events of my defeat.

 

Well that's different then now is it? If you know your opponent winning would lead to further suffering, than you're right to fight like Hell and win.

 

But again, is that the fault of the mindset, or the man twisting it into something it doesn't have to be?

[man dude man 555]

But not all Sith embrace the Dark Side so rigidly; if for nothing but purely practical reasons.

 

Darth Plaugeis the wise, whom Palpatine mentioned during that very conversation, wanted to reform the Sith. His first action was to abolish the Rule of Two, he wanted to achieve immortality and rule the galaxy benevolently in concert with his apprentice.

 

Unfortunately, that apprentice was Sidious.

 

"Everything that has transpired has been according to my design."

 

Bullshit, Palpatine! Your master did all the work, you just hijacked his plan!

 

It's true, while Plaugeis studied and experimented, trying to invent a method to create and sustain life (a noble pursuit in my book) Palpatine was playing politician and gathering support. You can see why Sidious had to kill his master in his sleep, a Master who held nothing but respect for his apprentice.

 

Well that's different then now is it? If you know your opponent winning would lead to further suffering, than you're right to fight like Hell and win.

 

But again, is that the fault of the mindset, or the man twisting it into something it doesn't have to be?

I understand that logic to. I know what it's like seeing the world through both lenses, and I know that the only thing the aggressor loves more than winning, is the competition it takes to win. Your aggressor wants to see you hate him, he wants you to feel as broken as he does, and really that is the cause of his direct conflict with you, when one has already obtained a high level of power. He becomes equally as focused on the competition as he does holding on to the power.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

I understand that logic to. I know what it's like seeing the world through both lenses, and I know that the only thing the aggressor loves more than winning, is the competition it takes to win. Your aggressor wants to see you hate him, he wants you to feel as broken as he does, and really that is the cause of his direct conflict with you, when one has already obtained a high level of power. He becomes equally as focused on the competition as he does holding on to the power.

Very well put. So while we may disagree on the focus of peace and contentment vs. conflict and ambition; can we agree that neither necessitates undue harm to others?

[CT-1138 3,182]

But not all Sith embrace the Dark Side so rigidly; if for nothing but purely practical reasons.

 

Darth Plaugeis the wise, whom Palpatine mentioned during that very conversation, wanted to reform the Sith. His first action was to abolish the Rule of Two, he wanted to achieve immortality and rule the galaxy benevolently in concert with his apprentice.

 

Unfortunately, that apprentice was Sidious.

Benevolence is not the way of the Sith, unfortunately. The Rule of Two is soaked with a long, sad, history of apprentice killing master to gain power. Types like Revan and Plageis were not common nor even really welcomed within the ranks of the Sith. The very Sith Code betrays the idea of benevolence when it comes to the Sith. The Sith love conflict, war, and bloodshed. It means more emotions to be played with and more  deception and lies to be spread, and more control to be had. One of the perfect examples would be one of the very contenders for the Sith'ari: Sidious. By destroying peace with the Clone Wars, Sidious played with the passion of the most powerful force user in the Galaxy at the time. He used that passion to break the Jedi's hold over this person and in doing so gained the strength and power of this person and in the end: victory over the Galaxy, breaking the millennial long peacetime the Jedi held. 

Edited March 31, 2014 by Dinos4Ever

[Steel Accord 6,660]

All these people turning to the dark side. My mind turns to only one song....

 

Hmmmm . . . .

 

My thought of the Sith philosophy makes me think more of this.

 

Edited April 1, 2014 by Steel Accord

[AlicornAcolyte 254]

You see, I favor a strict impartiality when making a judgement, or at least as close as biased humans can get. I figure one of the best ways to strive for impartiality is to try and keep emotions in check.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Benevolence is not the way of the Sith, unfortunately. The Rule of Two is soaked with a long, sad, history of apprentice killing master to gain power. Types like Revan and Plageis were not common nor even really welcomed within the ranks of the Sith. The very Sith Code betrays the idea of benevolence when it comes to the Sith. The Sith love conflict, war, and bloodshed. It means more emotions to be played with and more  deception and lies to be spread, and more control to be had. One of the perfect examples would be one of the very contenders for the Sith'ari: Sidious. By destroying peace with the Clone Wars, Sidious played with the passion of the most powerful force user in the Galaxy at the time. He used that passion to break the Jedi's hold over this person and in doing so gained the strength and power of this person and in the end: victory over the Galaxy, breaking the millennial long peacetime the Jedi held. 

 

But it's for that very reason, I believe Plageis (sorry I misspelled his name the first time) and Darth Gravin were better Sith. They both saw that all of this deception and betrayal would lead to the downfall of the Sith, as it did through Anakin.

 

If Plageis succeeded, the galaxy would have been ruled unquestioningly by an immortal of immense power and wisdom and the proxy of his apprentice would eventually rise into a position that would be equal to and respected by the master.

 

 Sound familiar?

 

 

Plus, the Sith'ari is supposed to be one who destroys the order and rebuilds it anew. Sidious just repeated the same formula that has kept the Sith limping ever since Darth Bane's ruling.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Steel Accord

[Untitled Goose Q 5,137]

But it's for that very reason, I believe Plageis (sorry I misspelled his name the first time) and Darth Gravin were better Sith. They both saw that all of this deception and betrayal would lead to the downfall of the Sith, as it did through Anakin.

 

If Plageis succeeded, the galaxy would have been ruled unquestioningly by an immortal of immense power and wisdom and the proxy of his apprentice would eventually rise into a position that would be equal to and respected by the master.

 

 Sound familiar?

 

Celestia is Plageis! It all makes sense now!