movies/tv Jedi or Sith

[CT-1138 3,182]

But it's for that very reason, I believe Plageis (sorry I misspelled his name the first time) and Darth Gravin were better Sith. They both saw that all of this deception and betrayal would lead to the downfall of the Sith, as it did through Anakin.

 

If Plageis succeeded, the galaxy would have been ruled unquestioningly by an immortal of immense power and wisdom and the proxy of his apprentice would eventually rise into a position that would be equal to and respected by the master.

 

 Sound familiar?

 

-image-

Ah, but what to do when your apprentice is a pure practitioner of the Sith ways and, like millennia of Sith before him, doesn't share his master's benign views of power? Plagueis was a fool in the eyes a pure Sith practitioner like Sidious, who found his masters slow conniving too unambitious and unworthy of the Sith. That's when Plagueis, with all his knowledge and power, couldn't even keep himself alive. As Sidious stated "All who gain power are afraid of losing it." That is a very Sith-like thought process. Jedi feel power shouldn't be theirs, but left to somebody else. The Sith actively connive and engage themselves to be at the center of power. 

 

Also, thanks to you, I am now on a Rush binge.  

Edited March 31, 2014 by Dinos4Ever

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Ah, but what to do when your apprentice is a pure practitioner of the Sith ways and, like millennia of Sith before him, doesn't share his master's benign views of power? Plagueis was a fool in the eyes a pure Sith practitioner like Sidious, who found his masters slow conniving too unambitious and unworthy of the Sith. That's when Plagueis, with all his knowledge and power, couldn't even keep himself alive. As Sidious stated "All who gain power are afraid of losing it." That is a very Sith-like thought process. Jedi feel power shouldn't be theirs, but left to somebody else. The Sith actively connive and engage themselves to be at the center of power. 

 

It's pointless to say what Plagueis should or should not have done. But I will still hold that he was the better Sith and the better man. Yes his plans were slow, but they were also grand. Palpatine wanted to become Emperor to rule the galaxy through fear and discord, while his master wanted to attain such a position by simply being the most powerful figure in the galaxy.

 

To look at it another way, Sidious was too childish and impatient to recognize a path to true power.

 

Where Plagueis misstepped was continuing his efforts to destroy the Jedi. He tried to quite literally create the Chosen One, sensing that a being would be the Force incarnate and that he would use him as a weapon against the Jedi . . . . and he succeeded.

 

 

 

To answer your question though, if the apprentice will not share the power fairly then he deserves none. The "right" thing to do would be then to banish them and discontinue his/her training, under any following circumstances, killing them would be less the Rule of Two and more just plain old self-defense.

Celestia is Plageis! It all makes sense now!

 

The Princess is a Sith Lord! Which actually makes her 20% cooler!

 

Her fight with Luna should have been fought with lightsabers!

Edited March 31, 2014 by Steel Accord

[Untitled Goose Q 5,137]

Yes, Sidious caused fear and resentment and anger against him, therefore there would always be those set against him. Plagueis would have not had that problem to the same degree, therefore providing a more stable rule in the long run.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Yes, Sidious caused fear and resentment and anger against him, therefore there would always be those set against him. Plagueis would have not had that problem to the same degree, therefore providing a more stable rule in the long run.

 

Well that's just Machiavelli for you.

 

"Whether it is better to be loved or feared, one must be sure never to be hated. Then all the suffering you inflict, the people will endure, just to oppose you."

 

~The Prince (heavily paraphrased)

 

Personally, I think it's better to be loved. If you are feared, then turning on you in a time of weakness if the FIRST thing your followers will do!

 

If loved by them though, they will fight an army of your enemies to keep them from reaching your hospital bed.

[Untitled Goose Q 5,137]

Well that's just Machiavelli for you.

 

"Whether it is better to be loved or feared, one must be sure never to be hated. Then all the suffering you inflict, the people will endure, just to oppose you."

 

~The Prince (heavily paraphrased)

 

Personally, I think it's better to be loved. If you are feared, then turning on you in a time of weakness if the FIRST thing your followers will do!

 

If loved by them though, they will fight an army of your enemies to keep them from reaching your hospital bed.

Or just have Vetinari job security.

[CT-1138 3,182]

The Princess is a Sith Lord! 

 : "A Sith Lord?"

 

 : "It's treason, then..." *ignites horn* "Aaaaaaauuuuuuuurrrrrrrggggggh!!!!" 

[Shanks 10,816]

Sith, without a doubt. Yes I know that a lot of Sith have done horrible things but the great thing about the Sith philosophy is that it is very individualized meaning you can pretty much do whatever you want. Yes that can be used to justify some bad stuff but the you don't have to be an evil bastard to be a Sith despite the fact that it is the path that most Sith choose. The Jedi are for the most part well meaning but their philosophy is too dogmatic and extremely unrealistic. Denying all emotional attachments and anything that brings them joy or pleasure I believe does the opposite and makes them more likely to join the dark side because once they discover this it makes it more difficult for them to deal with these things. And the Jedi haven't always been the good guys either during the Padawan Massacre Of Taris for example several Jedi Consulars murdered their padawans based on a vague prophecy that one of them may turn to the dark side.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Padawan_Massacre

 

And if you have watched Star Wars The Clone Wars CGI series Ahsoka was framed for murder by a rogue jedi. The jedi order completely threw out the concept of innocent until proven guilty which is one of the principles they claimed to stand for by automatically assuming that Ahsoka was guilty when they had no evidence aside from some circumstantial evidence that she did anything wrong.The Jedi philosophy has improved when Luke Skywalker refounded the jedi order but is still fundamentally flawed.

Edited April 1, 2014 by EarthbendingProdigy

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,824]

Jedi. Is it better to have a heart of compassion towards your enemies and still overcome them, rather than slay them with no mercy just to rid another nuisance in one's life.  

[Steel Accord 6,660]

 : "A Sith Lord?"

 

 : "It's treason, then..." *ignites horn* "Aaaaaaauuuuuuuurrrrrrrggggggh!!!!" 

 

Oh that would be awesome!

 

I can see it now! Lyra, Bon Bon, and Vinyl all get cut down; but then last stands the most powerful Jedi Warrior Master in the Order.

 

[man dude man 555]

Very well put. So while we may disagree on the focus of peace and contentment vs. conflict and ambition; can we agree that neither necessitates undue harm to others?

i agree with that completley, just as I believe a sith can be and well is very likely to become corrupt, I do see a Jedi becoming corrupt as well, as we can refer to Anakin, Moral compasses are always moving, you saw the passion from Ani, when he wanted to justify all of his wrong doing to defend padame. In his mind deep somewhere he may have thought he was doing what he had to do. It's emotional, and I know all about it.

[Admiral Regulus 2,769]

Here's something interesting. When I was younger, the Jedi lifestyle appealed to me immensely. I don't just mean, "they're the good guys, so I like them more." I never thought that. I admired their philosophy of controlling emotions and appreciating knowledge. I always looked at Obi-Wan as the perfect example of what a human should be. Calm, peaceful, patient, wise, etc.

 

But in the past year or two, I've started to value the Sith code a little more. The Sith philosophy depicts a much more realistic perspective of life, or so I've come to learn. Everything I do, and everything I struggle with... it's all with one goal in mind. I'm constantly trying to better myself. It's all a result of passion, ambition, and a desire to improve. Without that passion, which the Jedi would suppress, I am nothing.

[Adachi 772]

There's a saying, "Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither". That said, I'm a Sith man.

[Kulstor 254]

I like what Jolee Bindo said in the first KOTOR game.  Don't recall the exact thing he said but basiclly he said emotions and actions are not inherently evil, just the intent behind the emotions and actions. 

 

I think one can take the Jedi & Sith codes and come up with something that taps into the strengths of both.  I think both have good and bad points and aspects.  Though the Sith one is very easy to go to far and go into the evil dark side of things.

[man dude man 555]

This is this most sith sounding quote I ever heard from Game of Thrones, and I think that it is relevant sounding to the Siths version of "peace being a lie", 

“Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.” My point being sith are opportunists, I get it, but they are ambitous at self righteous cost, it's frightening and destructive. I used to be that way, used to indetify with people claiming to be satanists, everyone constantly searching for liberation, these people will just keep searching for it, and searching for it, because they will never find it.

[Shanks 10,816]

he may have thought he was doing what he had to do.

Even Revan who was one of the most respected jedi in the history of the order went to extreme measures to do what he believed he had to do. Revan turned to the dark side and became a sith in order to try to stop the Sith Emporer and took his friend Malak as his apprentice. Malak deviated from the plan and betrayed Revan to start his own sith empire as Revan was captured by the jedi and had his memories erased so he could fight on their side. As he regained his memories he stopped Darth Malak and though he was technically a jedi he went his own way, he fell in love with Bastilla Shan and had a child with her but he left known space soon after to confront the Sith Emporer. He lost that fight and was placed in suspended animation, he was later taken out of that years later on a republic rescue mission. The Sith Emporer Darth Vitiate was eventually defeated by the Jedi Knight in the Jedi Knight story in Star Wars The Old Republic or so it appeared.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

 

This is this most sith sounding quote I ever heard from Game of Thrones, and I think that it is relevant sounding to the Siths version of "peace being a lie", 

“Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.” My point being sith are opportunists, I get it, but they are ambitous at self righteous cost, it's frightening and destructive. I used to be that way, used to indetify with people claiming to be satanists, everyone constantly searching for liberation, these people will just keep searching for it, and searching for it, because they will never find it.

 

 

Very Sith like indeed. But there is that old saying of falling off the horse and getting back on.

 

The true triumph is coming back from defeat to conquer anew. Isn't that why the story of Jesus is so powerful? Hated by an empire, betrayed by one of His followers, whipped, beaten, stoned, and humiliated until death . . . . and only THEN does He rise. For nothing, not even death, could conquer Him.

 

If you let your failures crush you, then you have no one to blame than yourself.

 

Most famous Sith are the loud Sith, the ones who strive for material and followers. The true Sith, in my opinion, are the ones who realized they don't need those things.

 

The mysterious "freedom" the Sith seek, I always compare to Enlightenment in Hinduism. It's the true understanding of yourself and what is happiness to you. Not pleasure! True, happiness.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Steel Accord

[man dude man 555]

Very Sith like indeed. But there is that old saying of falling off the horse and getting back on.

 

The true triumph is coming back from defeat to conquer anew. Isn't that why the story of Jesus is so powerful? Hated by an empire, betrayed by one of His followers, whipped, beaten, stoned, and humiliated until death . . . . and only THEN does he rise. For nothing, not even death, could conquer Him.

 

If you let your failures crush you, then you have no one to blame than yourself.

 

Most famous Sith are the loud Sith, the ones who strive for material and followers. The true Sith, in my opinion, are the ones who realized they don't need those things.

 

The mysterious "freedom" the Sith seek, I always compare to Enlightenment in Hinduism. It's the true understanding of yourself and what is happiness to you. Not pleasure! True, happiness.

I suppose, just take pride in the right things. It's a whole different story if you fell off the back of that horse on the way to defend the ones you loved, and got back on to continue the ride to chop their heads off.