Alicorns vs US military?

[Adachi 772]

Flutter Ponies would be able to beat them fo sure. They can dodge lightning bolts with ease

[FractalMoon 378]

@,

Only to be turned into roast chicken by air resistance. Cheers  

[Denim&Venöm 19,006]

That's funny since Celestia needed to go to Ponyville directly in Lesson Zero to stop the spell. Did it ever occur to you that magic does not scale linearly? Especially when it's outright stated to?

 

The princesses are not that fast, Canterlot was perfectly fine in their dogfight and we saw no sonic booms. Again, stop assuming that because someone else can do something, someone else can too

 Also, their lightning is pathetic. At point blank range it barely singes ponies and doesn't blow out their ear drums

 

 "Assuming the Elements are made out of Diamond?"

 First problem right there there, they could be made of brittle rock for all we know. And Earth Pony strength is a myth, RD being able to hoof wrestle AJ to a stand still along with Big Mac struggling to lift a cake and saddle bags proves it.

 

Cadence only unlocks love that is already there, the ponies she used it on were a married couple.

 

The dream walking ability is worthless when you realize the target(Scootaloo) can just kick Luna out of the dream if they want to

 

Moving around the Sun and Moon seems to be a very specific spell that can only raise it. We can judge this by the fact that we never saw them setting the Sun and Moon

 

Out ranged? They still need line of sight to use as seen in Lesson Zero

Outpowered? Nightmare Moon's bloodlusted blasts were barely capable of breaking stone apart

 

Outmaneavured? The alicorns fly at sub sonic speeds since we don't see any sonic booms in Canterlot

 

Energy production? Do you think there's a reason why alicorns and unicorns only use the laser beams from their horns and not anythhing else? Perhaps that is the only combat worthy spell?

 

 

That's why I pray to no one

 

Also, Tatzlworm>Discord>Celestia.

Is the Tatzlworm a god?! 0_o

 

At which point someone snipes them in the spine

 

1.When is it stated that magic doesn't scale linearly? But I do give you that the magic may need to be line of sight.

 

2.Just because they can fly fast doesn't mean they have to. And it's logical to assume that the alicorns can do whatever the rest of ponykind can do, seeing as how they are the amalgamation of all the races. We do have to go with their highest observed feats, cause that's the only data we have on their abilities. We don't use that, we might as well be making up our own numbers.

 

3.I presume they are diamond since a good portion of ornamentation and air looms have diamond in them. Again, we may never know what they were made of, but crystal of some kind is a safe bet seeing as the stone shattered into shards like crystals would, rather than into pieces like rock. Diamond or not, those ponies are hella strong. So maybe big mac isn't as Strong as we all thought. Rarity still carried a ten ton boulder for nearly 2 episodes.

 

4.How do you know they were married?

 

5.Not seeing where in the episode you got that from.

 

6.While I can't speak for NMM state of mind, there's a difference between unyielding range, and a measured attack. There is the chance she was holding back, as I've argued in past threads that NMM may not have been entirely evil based on her actions in the pilot.

 

7.But we do. Luna sets the moon at the end of Princess Twilight Sparkle.

 

8.Maybe that's why they weren't flying so fast, to avoid causing damage, and crashing into buildings.

 

9.What else could they use from their horns? Why we only see lasers is perhaps that's all they need. Maybe they don't need to go all out when a situation can be solved with less deadlier means.

 

10.Smart. Self reliance is the best path to success.  

 

11.Humans get sick from diseases all the time. Does that make bacterial or viral organisms a superior species? The ability to spread or contract diseases doesn't denote superiority.

 

12.If you're lucky, and able to survive that long

 

 

While you have your force composition values right (more or less), you seem to forget something rather important. That would be the 3rd law of motion. Due to the fact that Equestria obviously does not abide by Newtonian Physics (if it did centripedal forces would tear Pegasi apart the moment they hit about 80mph). So either we are fighting in Equestria, where their powers would actually work and the military would have little chance, or they're here on Earth where conservation of mass/energy laughs at their magic, and the laws of thermodynamics mean that Celestia and friends would be char-broiled (technically baked convection oven style, but whatever) by convective and radiative heat. If they try to teleport, just put the button in a building shorter than the alicorns and post an armed guard.

Again, this is taking the wild assumption that alicorns know what firearms and nuclear weapons ARE, which is already a rather extreme stretch of logic.

There is the chance that Pegasai were built to survive flying at such speeds, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing them flying that fast, because it would be detrimental to their survival. Same with the law of thermodynamics. If they can perform it, they were built to survive it.

 

Who needs to teleport, when even newborn foals can practice phasing though solid matter?

 

You're also taking the wild assumption that our own forces would know how to conduct warfare against sentient, intelligent, extradimensional adversaries, using sciences or forces of nature never before encountered in human history. It's hard to say which stretch of logic is more extreme.

[FractalMoon 378]

There is the chance that Pegasai were built to survive flying at such speeds, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing them flying that fast, because it would be detrimental to their survival. Same with the law of thermodynamics. If they can perform it, they were built to survive it.

Who needs to teleport, when even newborn foals can practice phasing though solid matter?

You're also taking the wild assumption that our own forces would know how to conduct warfare against sentient, intelligent, extradimensional adversaries, using sciences or forces of nature never before encountered in human history. It's hard to say which stretch of logic is more extreme.

First point: It's obvious that physics have gone to lunch in Equestria, as evidenced by action-reaction not existing and shields working at all.

Second point: Where's your evidence for that? I've missed one or two episodes, but I'm going to need a citation for that.

Third point: Actually, I'm not. I'm running under the assumption that we would fight a force proven to have superior capabilities in a logical way.

[Something Floaty 1,334]

I would give the edge to the military. Alicorns don't acutally exist, and after the WMDs in Iraq, the US military has a lot of experience waging a battle against fictional things. 

[Cwanky 17,584]

FOOLS!! Nightmare Moon, er I mean Princess Luna béats all.

 

All she has to do is wait until night then mindfuck everyone and everypony in their sleep, rendering everyone and everypony useless hippie shells without all that magic fuss.

 

Then everyone will now and realize who the true brat alicorn and Euler of Equestria is.

[Twinkfeather 54]

FOOLS!! Nightmare Moon, er I mean Princess Luna béats all.

 

All she has to do is wait until night then mindfuck everyone and everypony in their sleep, rendering everyone and everypony useless hippie shells without all that magic fuss.

 

Then everyone will now and realize who the true brat alicorn and Euler of Equestria is.

the military only sleeps if they have permission to

[Karba 63]

US easy, but they would stand no chance against the russians.

[Side Bird 566]

If it happened, I'm going with U.S military. I love ponies and I know they got their magic and all, but it could be FOE with them if U.S decided to use nuclear weapons. Plus, if they don't even know that a soldier is two miles away with a sniper aiming at them, and they hear the bullet like as it like, hits them, I doubt that shields gonna do much. 

 

The thing I'm thinking is though, why the heck would the U.S go to war against ponies?!

[GXPBlast 597]

If it happened, I'm going with U.S military. I love ponies and I know they got their magic and all, but it could be FOE with them if U.S decided to use nuclear weapons. Plus, if they don't even know that a soldier is two miles away with a sniper aiming at them, and they hear the bullet like as it like, hits them, I doubt that shields gonna do much. 

 

The thing I'm thinking is though, why the heck would the U.S go to war against ponies?!

 

Its not really why they would go to war its all for comparison sake.

 

Kind of like those videos on YouTube from Screw Attack in whcih Superman goes against Goku.

 

Both are good guys but that would probably never fight each other but the video was just made for comparison sake.

 

Same goes with U.S military vs MLP, its not really why would it happen, its more of a match up type thread.

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

1.When is it stated that magic doesn't scale linearly? But I do give you that the magic may need to be line of sight.

Spike says that magic focuses on one particular discipline

 

 

2.Just because they can fly fast doesn't mean they have to. And it's logical to assume that the alicorns can do whatever the rest of ponykind can do, seeing as how they are the amalgamation of all the races. We do have to go with their highest observed feats, cause that's the only data we have on their abilities. We don't use that, we might as well be making up our own numbers.

Except that when the Wonderbolts fell, Celestia did not try to fly down and rescue them. She was closer than RD, she could have done it

 

 

3.I presume they are diamond since a good portion of ornamentation and air looms have diamond in them. Again, we may never know what they were made of, but crystal of some kind is a safe bet seeing as the stone shattered into shards like crystals would, rather than into pieces like rock. Diamond or not, those ponies are hella strong. So maybe big mac isn't as Strong as we all thought. Rarity still carried a ten ton boulder for nearly 2 episodes.

We don't know the composition of the boulder, it may have been hollow for all we know. Whatever the case, strength doesn't matter much here

 

 

4.How do you know they were married?

They were at least in a relationship, they were arguing over whether or not she was going to the spa, sounded like people in a relationship

 

 

5.Not seeing where in the episode you got that from.

The dream world shattered to pieces and Luna was hauling ass to escape, remember?

 

 

6.While I can't speak for NMM state of mind, there's a difference between unyielding range, and a measured attack. There is the chance she was holding back, as I've argued in past threads that NMM may not have been entirely evil based on her actions in the pilot.

No, she was definitely going for the kill in that episode

 

 

7.But we do. Luna sets the moon at the end of Princess Twilight Sparkle.

Good on her, it doesn't mean much

 

 

8.Maybe that's why they weren't flying so fast, to avoid causing damage, and crashing into buildings.

I doubt NMM cares about property damage

 

 

9.What else could they use from their horns? Why we only see lasers is perhaps that's all they need. Maybe they don't need to go all out when a situation can be solved with less deadlier means.

When ponies are blood lusted, they always use lasers. They never use other spells in combat

 

 

11.Humans get sick from diseases all the time. Does that make bacterial or viral organisms a superior species? The ability to spread or contract diseases doesn't denote superiority.

You're missing my point. A biological attack would be effective on the alicorns, they will have never encountered something like that

 

 

12.If you're lucky, and able to survive that long

Considering that NMM's destructive power is on par with a weak grenade, I think someone can survive long enough for the weaker Celestia to get caught off guard 

[Adachi 772]

Maybe if all the unicorns and alicorns research all of their forbidden black magic, MAYBE, just MAYBE they would have a chance. No army in the world can fight with plagues running rampant (except God's army). I don't see them unleashing such destruction, but if Equestria was ever threatened, then they just might do that. And I could see Twilight learning a lesson from this. Sometimes you have to do what might seem wrong at first, to protect those that you love.

 

Edit: They could also try to convince the dragons to fight the army, if they can convince them that their treasures are in danger. There are all kinds of foul beasts that could destroy pretty much anything in Tartarus too, the question would be how to turn their power against the military.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Assertive Fluttershy

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

That lesson was already learned in the Breezies episode. Not to mention plagues are indiscriminate, they'd go after ponies too 

[GXPBlast 597]

Maybe if all the unicorns and alicorns research all of their forbidden black magic, MAYBE, just MAYBE they would have a chance. No army in the world can fight with plagues running rampant (except God's army). I don't see them unleashing such destruction, but if Equestria was ever threatened, then they just might do that. And I could see Twilight learning a lesson from this. Sometimes you have to do what might seem wrong at first, to protect those that you love.

 

Edit: They could also try to convince the dragons to fight the army, if they can convince them that their treasures are in danger. There are all kinds of foul beasts that could destroy pretty much anything in Tartarus too, the question would be how to turn their power against the military.

 

 

Thats alot of maybes. So I am guessing that there is a very low chance of them winning based on this post. But talking about extreme dark magic that can wipe out an entire miltary in whcih the show has never seen before, its been in fanfics but not in the show which makes it not cannon. So The chance of them winning just went down a ton of points.

 

Iron man took care of the dragons lol

 

Edited March 28, 2014 by FurzVette

[Colorful Respawn 399]

If any admins are reading this, I was wondering if I could get this thread approved, or make it popular? Thanks!

[GXPBlast 597]

If any admins are reading this, I was wondering if I could get this thread approved, or make it popular? Thanks!

 

 

I think if this thread was not approved by admins, it would have been locked awhile back. But I think its a good idea to ask to make it popular since it has over 200 replies lol.

Edited March 29, 2014 by FurzVette

[Denim&Venöm 19,006]

FractaLuna, on 27 Mar 2014 - 10:59 PM, said:

First point: It's obvious that physics have gone to lunch in Equestria, as evidenced by action-reaction not existing and shields working at all.

Second point: Where's your evidence for that? I've missed one or two episodes, but I'm going to need a citation for that.

Third point: Actually, I'm not. I'm running under the assumption that we would fight a force proven to have superior capabilities in a logical way.

1. Well I guess we're at an impass then, regarding physics.

2. Adventures in Foalsitting. I believe it was pumpkin cake who managed to phase though her own crib (or whatever that giant mesh basket is called.)

3. Hard to tell how our own forces would act under such conditions since the US hasn't encountered a "superior force" since the revolution.

 

 

Evil Dragon Master, on 28 Mar 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

Spike says that magic focuses on one particular discipline

-I presume that's from Boast Busters. But that's a discipline, not range or scale.

 

Except that when the Wonderbolts fell, Celestia did not try to fly down and rescue them. She was closer than RD, she could have done it

-Celestia didn't do alot of things, mostly under the guise of teaching her subjects a lesson, rather than doing it for them. She could've. Choosing not to doesn't mean she can't.

 

We don't know the composition of the boulder, it may have been hollow for all we know. Whatever the case, strength doesn't matter much here.

-The ability to flip over jeeps, tanks, A.P.C.s, break though barricades, gates and walls,and obviously overpower dozens of soldiers at a time seems to matter.

 

 

They were at least in a relationship, they were arguing over whether or not she was going to the spa, sounded like people in a relationship

-Its' hard to tell on what basis Cadence's magic functions. You could be right. I could be right.

 

The dream world shattered to pieces and Luna was hauling ass to escape, remember?

-I thought she was just fading away with the dream world.

 

No, she was definitely going for the kill in that episode

-I guess it's just down to perception. It looked more like she's was trying to incapacitate or kill to me.

 

Good on her, it doesn't mean much

-It means she has control of the moon, and can use it as a weapon, whether to just block out the sun or steamroll the entire continent.

 

I doubt NMM cares about property damage

-Why level your own kingdom? Why destroy the thing you're trying to attain?

 

When ponies are blood lusted, they always use lasers. They never use other spells in combat

-I don't think we have seen bloodlusted ponies. We've barley seen any examples of combat in the series.

 

You're missing my point. A biological attack would be effective on the alicorns, they will have never encountered something like that

-Presuming our diseases work on them. Presuming even our Equine diseases work on them. Presuming any ailment from our dimension would work in theirs and vice versa.

 

 

Considering that NMM's destructive power is on par with a weak grenade, I think someone can survive long enough for the weaker Celestia to get caught off guard

-Implying she was acting on full strength, that she wasn't cocky and underestimating her sister's power and that she wasn't trying to win the battle with the least amount of effort possible.

[FractalMoon 378]

1. Well I guess we're at an impass then, regarding physics.

2. Adventures in Foalsitting. I believe it was pumpkin cake who managed to phase though her own crib (or whatever that giant mesh basket is called.)

3. Hard to tell how our own forces would act under such conditions since the US hasn't encountered a "superior force" since the revolution.

1. What do you mean? Newtonian/relativistic physics simply can't reconcile shields in any way, shape, or form (aside from magnetism, but in order for that to work the magnet would have to be so powerful that it repelled electrons, which would mean that the alicorns would choke to death if they tried to form a shield in our world), and in order to move a celestial body, or any smaller object for that matter, you need to have a reactive force, such as movement of another object or expansion of another media.

 

2. I will concede this point, however are there any other recorded examples? If we are making this a strictly objective argument I must ask for more than one example in passing of such a phenomenon. As such, why don't all unicorns simply phase through walls when they want to go somewhere?

 

3. If we have a competent general we'd be pragmatic, but I suppose we're at an impasse about whether the US military still hires pragmatists.

[GXPBlast 597]

1. What do you mean? Newtonian/relativistic physics simply can't reconcile shields in any way, shape, or form (aside from magnetism, but in order for that to work the magnet would have to be so powerful that it repelled electrons, which would mean that the alicorns would choke to death if they tried to form a shield in our world), and in order to move a celestial body, or any smaller object for that matter, you need to have a reactive force, such as movement of another object or expansion of another media.

 

2. I will concede this point, however are there any other recorded examples? If we are making this a strictly objective argument I must ask for more than one example in passing of such a phenomenon. As such, why don't all unicorns simply phase through walls when they want to go somewhere?

 

3. If we have a competent general we'd be pragmatic, but I suppose we're at an impasse about whether the US military still hires pragmatists.

 I think that the person you are debating will not change their mind. I say just agree to disagree lol.

 

That said, I think you are right Alicorns lose.

Edited April 3, 2014 by GXPBlast

[Denim&Venöm 19,006]

I think that the person you are debating will not change their mind. I say just agree to disagree lol.

 

That said, I think you are right Alicorns lose.

That person would be me. And I feel no need to change my mind since I'm basing my opinion on observations from the show, and attempting to back them with real world figures.

 

1. What do you mean? Newtonian/relativistic physics simply can't reconcile shields in any way, shape, or form (aside from magnetism, but in order for that to work the magnet would have to be so powerful that it repelled electrons, which would mean that the alicorns would choke to death if they tried to form a shield in our world), and in order to move a celestial body, or any smaller object for that matter, you need to have a reactive force, such as movement of another object or expansion of another media.

-But you yourself said that Equestria pretty much throws physics out the window. So why should it matter? We also do not know on what basis the alicorns are forming their shields, so it's hard to say whether it's impossible or not.

 

2. I will concede this point, however are there any other recorded examples? If we are making this a strictly objective argument I must ask for more than one example in passing of such a phenomenon. As such, why don't all unicorns simply phase through walls when they want to go somewhere?

-Not sure why they can't. Does that limit Teleportaion since only Twilight does it? I'm basing alicorn ability as the amalgamation of all pony abilities, both physical and magical. What's been done in the show, they should be able to replicate.

 

 

3. If we have a competent general we'd be pragmatic, but I suppose we're at an impasse about whether the US military still hires pragmatists.

-Agreed.

[FractalMoon 378]

That person would be me. And I feel no need to change my mind since I'm basing my opinion on observations from the show, and attempting to back them with real world figures.

(As a point of order, please do not put your replies inside my quote, it makes it VERY hard to find them while reading the forums on my phone.)

There's really only one point I can dispute here, aside from more than just twilight being able to teleport (The pony you cited as an example, pumpkin cake, is able to teleport as well, and if memory serves other ponies have done it before in the series, but that may be my brain acting up AGAIN.) and that point is the way the laws of physics work. Yes, in the MLP-verse physics are sorta non-existent, but here in OUR universe they're the law, and as such must be followed in the case of any engagement that occurs here on Earth. As for by what force they work with, these are the various forces that they could use, and why they wouldn't work,

Magnetic: As stated above, these would need to be powerful enough to repel electrons in order to deflect non-ferromagnetic objects (I.E. Bullets or changelings), and in addition are not solid.

Force barrier: Would not stop the transfer of kinetic energy via a wave, leading to an echo effect that would mulch the thing shielded, in addition to being impermeable and thus meaning anything inside would quickly asphyxiate.

Hard Light: On the off chance this is a real thing in the MLP universe, it would work there as expected, but would lead to the alicorns being swiftly baked by a nuclear or conventional flame in this or any world abiding by the Laws of Thermodynamics.

[Denim&Venöm 19,006]

(As a point of order, please do not put your replies inside my quote, it makes it VERY hard to find them while reading the forums on my phone.)

There's really only one point I can dispute here, aside from more than just twilight being able to teleport (The pony you cited as an example, pumpkin cake, is able to teleport as well, and if memory serves other ponies have done it before in the series, but that may be my brain acting up AGAIN.) and that point is the way the laws of physics work. Yes, in the MLP-verse physics are sorta non-existent, but here in OUR universe they're the law, and as such must be followed in the case of any engagement that occurs here on Earth. As for by what force they work with, these are the various forces that they could use, and why they wouldn't work,

Magnetic: As stated above, these would need to be powerful enough to repel electrons in order to deflect non-ferromagnetic objects (I.E. Bullets or changelings), and in addition are not solid.

Force barrier: Would not stop the transfer of kinetic energy via a wave, leading to an echo effect that would mulch the thing shielded, in addition to being impermeable and thus meaning anything inside would quickly asphyxiate.

Hard Light: On the off chance this is a real thing in the MLP universe, it would work there as expected, but would lead to the alicorns being swiftly baked by a nuclear or conventional flame in this or any world abiding by the Laws of Thermodynamics.

-That's where we're getting mixed up. Is the conflict taking place on Earth or Equestria? But regardless, the alicorns are forming barriers none the less. If magnetic or force barriers, first the kinetic energy could be redirected in some fashion, as Shining and Cadence didn't suffer ill effects from Changeling/Sombra attacks other than fatigue and tension headaches from prolonged spellcasting.

 

To address the asphyxiation problem, there's the chance that maybe alicorns are anaerobic creatures. They may not need oxygen or even breathing to survive, as Luna seemed to handle the trip from the moon in the pilot, and in Canterlot wedding pt 1. Then there's the theory that the alicorns are not only immortal but invulnerable, that nothing could kill them (why the EoH sent NMM to the moon, but turned Discord to stone, that petrification in Equestria is actually the death of magical life). Doubtful it's hardlight since Golden Oaks, Canterlot, and the Crystal Empire weren't fried.

[Cwanky 17,584]

For all those who say the ponies are too cute or nice to kill, I'm sorry but cartoon or otherwise, just no. This rubs me the wrong way and for the sake of argument and what humanity has done and been capable of I only need to look to Hiroshima:

 

 

If humans were capable of dropping a true weapon of mass destruction on thousands of innocent civilians, let alone 11 million more among others in World War 2 alone, I don't think anything suggests they would be above killing your ponies, necessity or otherwise.

 

Destruction and evil know no bounds.

[GXPBlast 597]

 

 

Head Canons, Head Canons everywhere.

 

 

Yep tons of them. Plus putting the ponies on a pedestal saying nothing can defeat them while making up stuff never seen in the show to justify the ponies winning or they just dont want to see the ponies loosing because they love them so much and will refuse to have anything happen to them so they just give them an automatic win.

Edited May 3, 2014 by GXPBlast

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

 

 

Yep tons of them. Plus putting the ponies on a pedestal saying nothing can defeat them while making up stuff never seen in the show to justify the ponies winning or they just dont want to see the ponies loosing because they love them so much and will refuse to have anything happen to them so they just give them an automatic win.

 

Or just the fact that the ponies are very dangerous and should be taken seriously. They won't win but they'll be dangerous