The Bulletin of Recherche

It saddens me that I'll never be able to experience the brony community as it once was, but that is like anything else in life. Everything has its time and even if it doesn't completely die down in the future, it'll never go back to how it once was. Just comparing a thread created around 2014 and one that's created recently on these forums, the number of brohoofs the posts posted in that thread are significantly higher than most that are posted now. The community was really active until some moved on, some just got busy with their lives and some might have not felt interest as they did before.

I think My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic certainly has made an impact in pop culture as we know it, it has its own Monopoly set, a clue on Jeopardy!, and was on the cover for the box of Trivial Pursuit 2000s. Those are some obscure examples, but it just goes to show how widely recognized the show was. There's a chance Gen 5 could attract new fans, but I think as seen over the years, more people are leaving the fandom rather than coming in. The community is still known, but it wouldn't flourish like it did before. The best we could do is just remember the good times we had with the show and the community, and accept whatever's coming for us. Who knows if this site will even still be running in a few years, so let's just make the most of it, font you think?

Anyways, great blog~! I can see the astounding amount of effort that is being put into this.  Really good job you did on your part for creating this, it was a good read.

Show is actually approaching it's 8th anniversary actually.

Either way, I intend to give G5 a fair chance without comparing it to G4 and I encourage others to do the same. Approach this as a new beginning, not as a stubborn child refusing to take off the nostalgia goggles and look at something new.

I think you've made an excellent assessment of the situation and approached the subject realistically and not overly optimistic or overly pessimistic. A fine essay and a damn good perspective.

2 hours ago, Key Sharkz said:

Show is actually approaching it's 8th anniversary actually.

Either way, I intend to give G5 a fair chance without comparing it to G4 and I encourage others to do the same. Approach this as a new beginning, not as a stubborn child refusing to take off the nostalgia goggles and look at something new.

I think you've made an excellent assessment of the situation and approached the subject realistically and not overly optimistic or overly pessimistic. A fine essay and a damn good perspective.

Yeah, I have every intention of checking out Generation 5 once it airs as well.  I'll admit; it's going to be hard not to compare it to Generation 4, due to how strongly we associate Gen 4's elements with MLP... but as they say, even the most beautiful flower will wilt. With that in mind, I'll do everything I can to view them as separate entities; Generation 4 will have way too much of an edge otherwise.

Oh, and thank you for the kind words, by the way~!

wow,that took a while to read,i personaly never knew the "golden age"but i feel that if the world is deep and the writing decent,people will be drawn to it,i really hope they won't purposely try to appeal to older audiences since the older fans like it for its innocence and lighthearted tone(while still deep),anyway a nice analysis on the topic,lets just hope for the best
and who knows,maybe with Gen5 comming they'll let some more fan projects for Gen4 see the light of day

Edited June 25, 2018 by lordvaltasar

Don't compare this fandom to Sweden. Ever.

Regardless, this was a very good essay. I completely agree with what you said about us not having a healthy mindset in clinging to nostalgia, that's a point I've been trying to get across to people in this fandom since like, 2013. And even though I stick to what I've been saying for a decent while about the fandom not dying, I completely agree that Generation 5 is really our only hope for the next wave of pony hype right now. My optimism for it will be cautious. However, even if it were to completely fail, it wouldn't shake my faith that we'd be able to move along.  

Edited June 24, 2018 by CloudMistDragon

I think this was a great essay with a lot of good points! Obviously also very topical in the fandom!

I don't have much to say that wasn't already in the essay itself or the previous comments. But I liked the somewhat optimistic but realistic take on the future of the fandom. Mine is much more pessimistic, I'm afraid. The point on the shock value not being there anymore is the main reason I don't see G5 being as popular. A lot of people in the fandom started watching simply out of curiosity, in some cases even out of disbelief that the show would actually be good. I consider myself a part of this group, though it unfortunately took years (and a certain level of boredom) for me to finally give the show a chance. I can't see there being the same hype for G5 – while many remaining in the fandom at that point will probably give it a chance, with some former bronies possibly returning, I can only see the fandom further shrinking, as the show, regardless of how good it is, will never please everyone. There might be a new wave of bronies who were too young to experience G4 and its fandom – though fads rarely come back, unless for a short time...

Well said. I agree with a lot of what you said. Like some people here, I got into MLP on the tailend of the fandom. I never got to experience it in its prime which I will always regret. The show isn't as advertised as it once was. Years ago, it used to be everywhere in stores because it was huge and fans couldn't get enough of it. Now, stores barely carry anything related to MLP. I was in Hot Topic the other day and they had zero MLP related shirts at all or any other merchandise.

By the end of this year or sometime next year, we may have a better idea of what G5 will look like. My only hope is that Hasbro treats it with more respect than what was done with shows like Teen Titans Go which destroyed anything good about the original series for me. G5 will have to very good to keep G4 fans interested. Otherwise it will be dropped very quickly. Something else to keep in mind is that fans are getting older and thier interests are changing.

I'll be interested to see what happens if the conventions stay around since the voice actors and writers will be moving on to other projects. Hopefully some of the same writers will be able to stay on for G5 but we'll see. Regardless of what happens, G4 will always have special memories for me.

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Though there have been debates regarding this, most can agree that bronies were a fad.

I disagree. "Fad" translates to something that was really popular before withering away. "Beanie baby" is the perfect example of a fad: once very popular, but now barely talked about anymore and without value. Bronydom isn't anywhere nearly as big as it once was, but bronydom also stubbornly won't going away. Not to mention that fandoms don't technically die. Even decades following cancellation, their fandoms don't dissipate; the Browncoats, for example.

Secondly, I'm not a big fan of the "rose-tinted glasses" idiom, because it implicates nostalgia or missing of the old as inherently a bad thing in favor of the new. Nostalgia is a neutral concept that can be very good or very bad, depending on how you channel it.

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Aside from those two things that really bugged me, you makes some good points. As for G5, I don't know what will happen or how good it'll be.

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I wasn't a fan of the concept art. Most of the designs were way too complicated, uncanny, or too crowded with too much detail. They got some good ideas, but I'm pessimistic here. Same with AJ's personality reboot, which so far feels like a big step backwards, but we'll see. Once they iron out the design problems, it'll hopefully look better.

Of course, come later in time, we'll know more details as they officially come out, and I'll likely give it a chance if I'm interested. Who knows. Maybe it'll fix some of FIM's bigger follies. Not to mention, FIM didn't get off to a hot start, either: Took until Winter Wrap Up before it really began to roll.

Edited June 25, 2018 by Dark Qiviut

2 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

I disagree. "Fad" translates to something that was really popular before withering away. "Beanie baby" is the perfect example of a fad: once very popular, but now barely talked about anymore and without value. Bronydom isn't anywhere nearly as big as it once was, but bronydom also stubbornly won't going away. Not to mention that fandoms don't technically die. Even decades following cancellation, their fandoms don't dissipate; the Browncoats, for example.

That's true; fandoms who gain a good foothold (like us) will always have remnants scattered about. While it's true that it's impossible to outright kill a fanbase, some can be weakened to a point where they can't sustain certain things that they once could (dedicated lines of merchandise, conventions, comic-con panels, etc.). When I called bronies a fad, I probably should have phrased that better; I didn't mean to say that bronies are a fad that will soon die, I meant that bronies were a fad that has since passed. We're all bronies... but bronies are just what they are nowadays, not sensations.

2 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Secondly, I'm not a big fan of the "rose-tinted glasses" idiom, because it implicates nostalgia or missing of the old as inherently a bad thing in favor of the new. Nostalgia is a neutral concept that can be very good or very bad, depending on how you channel it.

Yup, I agree. I probably could have phrased that part better, admittedly; it could have come across as a way of saying "accept the new things over the old, because the new things are all we have." While I can see where you got that idea, I was saying something more along the lines of, "don't set your expectations based on nostalgia, or disappointment is inevitable." Nostalgia is definitely a good thing, and it's always nice to experience it... but we should all accept that nostalgia is an impossible standard to meet, due to the fact that our brains intentionally warp past experiences in  positive direction, no matter how positive they truly were.

Basically, I'm saying that we should hold Generation 5 to the standards that we would hold anything else. This isn't to say the we should never compare the generations; they share the same name, after all... but they also are different series, and should be judged as such. I'm just trying to keep folks in the mindset of "I want Generation 5 to be good," and not, "I want Generation 5 to be like Generation 4." If folks do the latter, then they're never going to be happy with the result, regardless of how good Generation 5 is.

3 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Aside from those two things that really bugged me, you makes some good points. As for G5, I don't know what will happen or how good it'll be.

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I wasn't a fan of the concept art. Most of the designs were way too complicated, uncanny, or too crowded with too much detail. They got some good ideas, but I'm pessimistic here. Same with AJ's personality reboot, which so far feels like a big step backwards, but we'll see.

Of course, come later in time, we'll know more details as they officially come out, and I'll likely give it a chance if I'm interested. Who knows. Maybe it'll fix some of FIM's bigger follies. Not to mention, FIM didn't get off to a hot start, either: Took until Winter Wrap Up before it really began to roll.

WINTER WRAP UP WINTER WRAP UP, LET'S FINISH OUR HOLIDAY CHEER

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I agree almost completely. The main issue I have with the concept art is how... stiff they look. One of the main draws of the Generation 4 designs (aside from simplicity... cough cough) is how animated they are. Basically, their designs are flexible enough to allow for things like this, without looking too strange:

Now imagine the Pinkie Pie from the concept art doing something like that. If you can't... then that proves our point.

I would be lying if I said I didn't like the Rarity redesign in the slightest (I might be a bit biased )... but I've seen better redesigns come out of the fandom before, such as this one (sans the tail).

But yes, though. Personally, I'm eagerly awaiting Generation 5 details... though I'm remaining cautiously optimistic. While I trust that Generation 5 won't suck... I'm reserving most of my judgements until further details are released. Hell, like you said; we might have to wait a little bit before Generation 5 gets good (once it gets going), or maybe it will be the best thing since sliced bread. The only option we have for now is to wait... though I would be lying if I said I wasn't even the slightest bit excited~.

15 minutes ago, The Recherche said:

When I called bronies a fad, I probably should have phrased that better; I didn't mean to say that bronies are a fad that will soon die, I meant that bronies were a fad that has since passed. We're all bronies... but bronies are just what they are nowadays, not sensations.

16 minutes ago, The Recherche said:

While I can see where you got that idea, I was saying something more along the lines of, "don't set your expectations based on nostalgia, or disappointment is inevitable."

15 minutes ago, The Recherche said:

Basically, I'm saying that we should hold Generation 5 to the standards that we would hold anything else. This isn't to say the we should never compare the generations; they share the same name, after all... but they also are different series, and should be judged as such. I'm just trying to keep folks in the mindset of "I want Generation 5 to be good," and not, "I want Generation 5 to be like Generation 4." If folks do the latter, then they're never going to be happy with the result, regardless of how good Generation 5 is.

Your explanations make it much clearer, and I fully agree with your reasoning, particularly the latter. G5 deserves to be judged on its own merits. Comparing it to G4 would be unfair to both generations, especially G5.

18 minutes ago, The Recherche said:

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One of the main draws of the Generation 4 designs (aside from simplicity... cough cough) is how animated they are. Basically, their designs are flexible enough to allow for things like this, without looking too strange:

 

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Agreed here. FIM has that cartoonish flexibility where we can stretch the logic and play with the cartoon logic. G5's concepts feel more grounded in realism. Not like it's a bad thing, but it'd look out place if trying to execute cartoonish humor.

 

ETA: And to echo @Twilight Luna, I really hope Hasbro treats G5 with respect and doesn't follow Cartoon Network's kid-pandering devolution from Teen Titans to TTG!

I agree that one shouldn't compare it too much to G4. However, comparisons are inevitable to some extent...

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Especially if Hasbro is going to have the same Mane 6 for G5. I know they have reused character names before, sometimes for very different characters. However, they have never had the core cast consist of the exact same group of ponies as in the previous generation. For example, one of the G3 ponies (Starsong) hasn't appeared in FIM at all!

So the more elements they are going to reuse from G4, the more attention people are going to pay to the things that are changed. For this reason, I'd prefer to see an entirely new cast of ponies rather than a "sort of but not quite Mane 6".

 

Edited June 25, 2018 by Tacodidra

2 hours ago, Tacodidra said:

I agree that one shouldn't compare it too much to G4. However, comparisons are inevitable to some extent...

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Especially if Hasbro is going to have the same Mane 6 for G5. I know they have reused character names before, sometimes for very different characters. However, they have never had the core cast consist of the exact same group of ponies as in the previous generation. For example, one of the G3 ponies (Starsong) hasn't appeared in FIM at all!

So the more elements they are going to reuse from G4, the more attention people are going to pay to the things that are changed. For this reason, I'd prefer to see an entirely new cast of ponies rather than a "sort of but not quite Mane 6".

 

Yup, I agree with that as well.

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While I certainly like the Mane 6 quite a lot... I would rather have a new cast, than a recreation of the old one. Not only would this lead to further comparisons with Generation 4... but I don't know what can truly be done with them anymore, revised or not. Their characters will have gone trough all of the arcs that they can by the end of Generation 4, so reusing them would be kinda redundant without any serious overhauls.

Also, while I really enjoy the Mane 6 (as previously stated)... I would rather move on from them , than relive them through the rest of the franchise's run. Don't get me wrong; this doesn't mean that I never want to see them again, but I would rather see a new group of protagonists get their time to shine than repeat the Mane 6 forever. They've had a good run, and I think it would be best to get a new generation of protagonists that we can grow attached to. Of course, the Mane 6s marketability puts this in proposition in serious jeopardy... but hey, a man can dream, can't he?

Rarity, you're amazing... but don't hog the spotlight.

 

No matter what, I think that we can all agree that Generation 4 of My Little Pony has come along way. 2010 may not seem like long ago, but time can really fly.

Friendship is Magic started when I was in Grade 2 and if the rumors are correct, it will end not long before I begin my final year of high school. To put it in somewhat of a metaphorical sense, it has grown as we have. From young with promise, to older, with a bright future to look forward to. While that future may not be as great as the nostalgia from the past, you can never doubt that great things can blossom from it.

We can speculate the future all we want, but time is ticking. Before we know it, our treasured series will come to an end. We should enjoy it while we can and let the future reveal itself as time continues.

Personally I plan on sticking around for Generation 5. I do agree that the new generation will sustain old fans and bring in new ones, but some fans will come and go. It's incredibly unlikely that the community won't return to the same level that it did in it's prime, but it will always still have fans, no matter what happens.

The future is full of surprises and personally, I can't wait to see they are.

Since these are not shipping OCs its sounds fine to me 

I’m not concerned about MLP not going back to its insanely active golden years. The slow simmer is fine for me.

I will be attempting to approach Gen 5 with an open mind and not make comparisons. But you know, that’d infinitely easier if they where using new characters as the stars, instead of attempt to change the ones people already love.

Great essay here. I remember FiM being all the fuss just a few years ago. I didn't understand it at all, and now years later on this forum here I am into this show. Looking back at the old videos and those things, it must have been an epic time to be into FiM.

I understand why the decline happened. As some have already stated, some folks wanted to move on with their lives and some (notably The Living Tombstone and Eurobeat Brony) wanted to turn their work into a professional career. 

I'm hoping G5 will have the same charm and formula that made G4 into a pop culture icon. 

Edited June 25, 2018 by TransitPony

Many of the super-talented - the OGs if you will - got into MLP and used it as a way to kickstart their career and give themselves a name in their creative field (musicians, artists, animators, etc.). However once they've reached their peak, MLP begins to be a little boring and unprofessional and so they either keep MLP on the side as non-professional stuff, while non-MLP work is presented as the full potential of what they can do.

Music examples include Evening Star, The Living Tombstone, Sim Gretina, and others.

Animation examples include Duo Cartoonist - in fact their announcement of leaving ponies behind actually motivated me to quit making wallpapers and focus more on writing (and my schoolwork! )

If G5 is coming I hope that some of the characters are brought over. I would like to see some new characters but I also love the G4 characters  I feel if they incorporate the two in a certain way everyone will be happy. I also feel maybe some more fan made animations will come out of the wood work. I also have been trying my hand at animation with some luck.

If I want to be honest the G4 pony hype was a perfect storm. It pretty much used up both the social media revolution, the rise of memes and the coming push for nerd culture and fandoms combined with a really dedicated early fanbase.

I doubt I will see anything similar to it ever again. And let's not forget that the early 2010s internet was way more innocent than now. People got upset over cartoon ponies. 

It was a fun time to be around.

 

I am still around mlp a little bit due to a sense of loyalty. Things got stale, that's for sure.

 

From company's point of view it is necessary to go ahead and evolve, because no all people will want or be able to watch 8 years of the show, there are probably new toys and plushes and other merchandise in production, something fresh is added to keep the viewers entertained.

 

However, from mine's point of view it's tragic to lose such nostalgic things, which I've been watching for 7 years now and never got bored enough to abandon the show for longer. 3 year break was only, because after watching season 5 there wasn't still season 6 and I had forgotten about MLP, but now, when I am reminding how awesome those times were... What even more traumatising for me is the fact, that it's possislbe, that Starlight Glimmer may be wiped out from the show, that means of course I wouldn't see my honestly favourite character anymore in the show, the only places left would be DeviantArt with fanarts, vectors etc. Althought it's just very sad, that everything I loved is going to be wasted. But life is unfair and I know that from the long time, so I shouldn't be surprised, but I am, it's just stressing me out, it's a time-ticking something, not even a bomb... But something definitely going to the end. I just can't write anymore becuase of sadness, which attacks me, while trying to describe things without Starlight. Maybe it'll sound weird, but she is an true inspiration for me, she's motivating me to do things which normally I couldn't be able to do it. And I problably wouldn't be in the MLP anymore, without Starlight of course.

 

Ah, so emotional text here, I'm just proving to myself how important Starlight is to my life, no matter if someone will laugh at me or not. Proving such statements with arguments is difficult, because for me she's everything practiclly, but for other person she's zero or even worse, so I will just safely say, that I need her a lot. Phew, the end.

Have a nice day.