Are Celestia and Luna natural alicorns?

[Alexshy 14,709]

We are! And I would be immensely grateful, if 't be true our valorous ponies didn't speculate with aspects closely touching our missing parents *sighs heavily*

*turns @GrimGrimoire into a muffin* NO, Derpy! Thou can't take THAT one! *and back to show she's the real deal* Is thy curiosity satisfied now, mine adventurous friend?

[GrimGrimoire 4,973]

22 minutes ago, Alexshy said:

*turns @GrimGrimoire into a muffin* NO, Derpy! Thou can't take THAT one! *and back to show she's the real deal* Is thy curiosity satisfied now, mine adventurous friend?

As long as I am not a bran muffin. Those things are horrible.

[Van123 29]

yes they are alicorns, they are alicorn since they were girls and they were student (i don't know) of starswirl the bearded

[Kadeda 178]

No, they are not born alicorns since they pretty much stated they weren't. My guess is they were unicorns that did the twilight thing and boom.

[Twilight Luna 31,358]

They are since Alicorns live for thousands of years. It’s never said in the show if Cadence is a true Alicorn. She had her wings at a young age.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

10 hours ago, Kadeda said:

No, they are not born alicorns since they pretty much stated they weren't. My guess is they were unicorns that did the twilight thing and boom.

when did they say that they weren't?

[Senko 459]

You know I just started watching the episode where we meet Cadence and Shining Armours baby and something occured to me. If Alicorn wings have to be earned and were by Celestia, Luna, Cadence and Twilight then that would mean Flurry Heart is not just the first natural born Alicorn but also the first baby born TO an Alicorn. So its entirely possible that while the wings can be earnt they can also be inherited and if Twilight, Celestia and Luna have kids they'll also be Alicorns. Of course this could be contradicted by episodes I haven't seen yet but I thought I'd mention it as it'll take me awhile to work through the remaining seasons/movies.

Also I lvoe the look on Cadence's face when Pinky say's she could be both a super strong flyer and have crazy baby magic.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Senko

[Kadeda 178]

7 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

when did they say that they weren't?

Season 6 Premier

[Im_not_crazy_im_just 1,814]

I’d assume that cadence was born with her wings because otherwise she would’ve got them at a really young age. Plus flurry heart was born an alicorn so it might be genetic.

[Senko 459]

9 minutes ago, Im_not_crazy_im_just said:

I’d assume that cadence was born with her wings because otherwise she would’ve got them at a really young age. Plus flurry heart was born an alicorn so it might be genetic.

Considering her mothers an Alicorn and her aunt's one there could be something to that idea. In which case it could be a result of both her maternal and paternal lines. We do know the cakes where Earth Ponies and had both a unicorn and a pegasus as their foals because of distant relatives.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Senko

[Im_not_crazy_im_just 1,814]

Just now, Senko said:

Considering her mothers an Alicorn and her aunt's one there could be something to that idea. In which case it could be a result of both her maternal and paternal lines. We do know the cakes where Earth Ponies and had both a unicorn and a pegasus as their foals.

Yea but twilight is her aunt in law so they don’t share any genetics. Also she got her wings later in life. I’m saying that cadence was born with wings and that’s why flurry heart was born with wings and cadence wasn’t surprised 

[Senko 459]

Just now, Im_not_crazy_im_just said:

Yea but twilight is her aunt in law so they don’t share any genetics. Also she got her wings later in life. I’m saying that cadence was born with wings and that’s why flurry heart was born with wings and cadence wasn’t surprised 

Wait what? Twilghts her proper aunt so far as I know unless I missed something. Shining Armour is Twilight's big brother and their parents are Flurry's grandparents or at least that's what I understood the relationship to be. Yes Twilight got her wings in the show but its not that late in her life she was still young enough to be writing regular letters to Celestia and considered herself her student. If you take Equestria girls to be canon she is in her mid teens so they could have been a puberty thing

[Im_not_crazy_im_just 1,814]

1 minute ago, Senko said:

Wait what? Twilghts her proper aunt so far as I know unless I missed something. Shining Armour is Twilight's big brother and their parents are Flurry's grandparents or at least that's what I understood the relationship to be. Yes Twilight got her wings in the show but its not that late in her life she was still young enough to be writing regular letters to Celestia and considered herself her student. If you take Equestria girls to be canon she is in her mid teens so they could have been a puberty thing

Watch season 3 episode 1+2 

also watch season 2 episode 13

Edited June 13, 2018 by Im_not_crazy_im_just

[Senko 459]

I have

8 minutes ago, Im_not_crazy_im_just said:

Watch season 3 episode 1+2 

also watch season 2 episode 13

I did recently he's her brother I'm sure unless there's something elsewhere to contradict the sheer number of times they refer to each other as brother and sister. I mean twilight sings an entire song about her Big Brother Best Friend Forever. I'm not so sure about the claims I've seen that Cadence was apparently originally a pegasus who became an Alicorn as I've not seen anything about her youth where she wasn't one. Shinging Armour though I am 100% sure on.

EDIT

They both reference their relationship here.

https://youtu.be/PJHYJ8Uw0ec

Edited June 13, 2018 by Senko

[Im_not_crazy_im_just 1,814]

A pegasus you say

7 minutes ago, Senko said:

I have

I did recently he's her brother I'm sure unless there's something elsewhere to contradict the sheer number of times they refer to each other as brother and sister. I mean twilight sings an entire song about her Big Brother Best Friend Forever. I'm not so sure about the claims I've seen that Cadence was apparently originally a pegasus who became an Alicorn as I've not seen anything about her youth where she wasn't one. Shinging Armour though I am 100% sure on.

EDIT

They both reference their relationship here.

https://youtu.be/PJHYJ8Uw0ec

Doesn’t look much like a Pegasus to me

[Senko 459]

Like I said her not being born one I don't know for sure of as we've only seen her like that. I was referring to Twilght being her aunt and being able to earn her wings which might be contributing. Though I am going to look a little more into young cadence now.

EDIT

Hmmm from the wiki so not sure how reliable it is or how canon the books are but under depictions in other media . . .

Chapter books

Spoiler

 

Princess Cadance is featured in the chapter book Twilight Sparkle and the Crystal Heart Spell. The book tells the story of Twilight Sparkle after she'd been made an Alicorn and seeks advice on being a princess. She turns to Cadance, who tells her life story, how as a baby Pegasus she was found in the woods by Earth ponies, who took her to their village. When she grew up she reversed a love-stealing spell cast by a pony called Prismia. Prismia wore a magic-enhancing necklace that amplified her evil and jealousy, but when Cadance confronted her, the necklace amplified Cadance's love. Once Prismia changed her horrible ways, Cadance was surrounded by magical energy and transported to a strange place where she met Celestia, who adopted her as her royal niece.

 

spoilered to avoid giving away potential book info for those who don't want it spoiled but it does refer to her as a pegasus not an Alicorn.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Senko

[Im_not_crazy_im_just 1,814]

1 minute ago, Senko said:

Like I said her not being born one I don't know for sure of as we've only seen her like that. I was referring to Twilght being her aunt and being able to earn her wings which might be contributing. Though I am going to look a little more into young cadence now.

There’s something called hereditary vs acquired features. For instance if a leav gets eaten out of then the next plant that grows won’t have the same hole in it but the original leaf shape is the same... I’m saying that cadence would have been born as an alicorn for flurry heart to be born with wings. So twilight being her aunt has nothing to do with flurry being an alicorn 

[Senko 459]

Ah communicating at crosspurposes I see what your saying now. The problem with that idea is the fact in the episode with Flurry Heart it is stated by Celestia that a born Alicorn is something Equestria has never seen before which would mean Cadence has to be born as a Pegasus, Earth Pony or Unicorn and then have earnt her wings otherwise Celestia woudln't have said that as while odd it would have been seen in her mother.

[Im_not_crazy_im_just 1,814]

Just now, Senko said:

Ah communicating at crosspurposes I see what your saying now. The problem with that idea is the fact in the episode with Flurry Heart it is stated by Celestia that a born Alicorn is something Equestria has never seen before which would mean Cadence has to be born as a Pegasus, Earth Pony or Unicorn and then have earnt her wings otherwise Celestia woudln't have said that as while odd it would have been seen in her mother.

Well yes but then again celestia was very busy ever since she had banished Luna to the moon having to raise the sun and the moon all the time so she probably wouldn’t have had enough time to notice it.

[Senko 459]

Maybe but it seems a bit of a stretch considering she had enough spare time to run an entire country, teach multiple students (suburst, moonbeam, Twilght, Susnset, etc) and even if she had somehow missed an Alicorn being born its the kind of thing Cadence probably would have mentioned even if just a "I was born one" in response to that comment or Rarities "I thought you had to earn your wings." Not to mention if expected they'd probably have given twilight a bit more warning of what to expect in her niece. Then there's the fact if it is genetic surely there'd have been other alicorns born at some point prior to Cadence in the thousand years Celestia was ruling. Not to mention the book I  mentioned refers to her as a baby Pegasus.

We may just need to agree to differ until more information becomes available but right now I think Flurry Heart was the first born Alicorn. Of course as I also said I can see the Alicorn transformation once achieved as being like you said genetic. So while Twilight, Cadence, Luna and Celestia earnt their wings and other ponies can any foals they have will have a good chance of being born Alicorns because that's what their mothers are. Twilight season 1 would have had a Pegaus, Earth Pony or probably Unicorn (we don't know enough about her family tree to rule out earth ponies and pegasi) wheares Twilight sparkle season 3 (end of) can have Pegaus, Earth Pony, Unicorn or probably Alicorn foals (again can't rule out the other two but the magical Alicorn transformation is probably more powerful in terms of inheritance).

[ManaMinori 4,145]

3 hours ago, Kadeda said:

Season 6 Premier

They very clearly stated that the birth of an alicorn was something EQUESTRIA had never seen before. Both C&L predate Equestria. Cadance and Twilight were not born alicorns, so their statement holds water.

[Kadeda 178]

6 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

They very clearly stated that the birth of an alicorn was something EQUESTRIA had never seen before. Both C&L predate Equestria. Cadance and Twilight were not born alicorns, so their statement holds water.

Sounds like selective hearing to me. They stated it as if they never heard of it. It's fair to say they weren't born Alicorns. If you flip enough times... you can get anything to say what you want it to say.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

12 hours ago, Kadeda said:

Sounds like selective hearing to me. They stated it as if they never heard of it. It's fair to say they weren't born Alicorns. If you flip enough times... you can get anything to say what you want it to say.

ok whatever you say.

[heavens-champion 1,905]

On 6/13/2018 at 9:30 AM, Kadeda said:

Sounds like selective hearing to me. They stated it as if they never heard of it. It's fair to say they weren't born Alicorns. If you flip enough times... you can get anything to say what you want it to say.

Oh, and Celestia and Luna saying they weren't born alicorns isn't selective hearing?

[Kadeda 178]

7 hours ago, heavens-champion said:

Oh, and Celestia and Luna saying they weren't born alicorns isn't selective hearing?

It's heavily implied based on evidence. If they were born alicorns... why would they be shocked about seeing a born alicorn and not know what was going on? That implies that to their knowledge... there has never been a born alicorn.