Celestia vs Luna

[Chivalry Knight 161]

@@Hive King,

No crap she can't turn into nightmare moon at will, im saying that she has the same magical power inside her even in normal form. Nightmare moon is just more evil and knows how to summon that power within... I guess. And you right, Celestia didn't fight back, she ran and went down in one shot, then Celestia knew she had to 'Fight Back'. But she knew the only way to beat her sister was to use the elements of harmony, Further clueing in that Luna is above Celestia in power.

If Luna has this magical power inside of her, then she is stronger than Celestia. As I previously stated, magic cannot just disappear, therefore Luna must still have that magical power inside of her.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Prince Blackquill

[Sunny Fox 5,950]

@@Hive King,

 

No crap she can't turn into nightmare moon at will, im saying that she has the same magical power inside her even in normal form. Nightmare moon is just more evil and knows how to summon that power within... I guess. And you right, Celestia didn't fight back, she ran and went down in one shot, then Celestia knew she had to 'Fight Back'. But she knew the only way to beat her sister was to use the elements of harmony, Further clueing in that Luna is above Celestia in power.

 

If Luna has this magical power inside of her, then she is stronger than Celestia. As I previously stated, magic cannot just disappear, therefore Luna must still have that magical power inside of her.

 

It doesn't matter how much latent power Luna has if she can only access it fully when she is Nightmare Moon, a state she can't turn into at will. Unless her NMM transformation in Luna Eclipsed actually was more than just a superficial illusion, which I guess people who favor Luna will claim, and people who favor Tia will deny, with neither side being able to prove it.  :comeatus:

 

PS - Why is there no Celestia smiley?

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

That's a bad comparison, once more. Celestia didn't want to hurt her sister, so she dodged. But then NMM got off a cheap shot because of Celestia's kindness and so Celestia goes down. To put down a comparison, imagine that two evenly matched boxers are fighting, and one gets a cheap shot in because the other one doesn't want to fight. Don't you think this will skew the results, since one of them was cheap shotted?

 

And what evidence is there to magic not disappearing? You pulled that from nowhere with no evidence at all. Even if your ridiculous theory was true, Luna can't access it at will

 

It doesn't matter how much latent power Luna has if she can only access it fully when she is Nightmare Moon, a state she can't turn into at will. Unless her NMM transformation in Luna Eclipsed actually was more than just a superficial illusion, which I guess people who favor Luna will claim, and people who favor Tia will deny, with neither side being able to prove it.  :comeatus:

 

PS - Why is there no Celestia smiley?

It's an illusion. If it wasn't, surely Luna would have simply donned the form permanently, at least during the Wedding Crisis where everyone was on guard

 

 

So case 1: Luna is as strong as Nightmare Moon even when she isn't in that form/frame of mind. Then she beats Celestia, due to the damage we've seen her inflict in Princess Twilight Sparkle Part 1, which Celestia has not (yet) been shown to match.

So because Luna cracked stone and Celestia hasn't, she's stronger? Celestia has never been in a position to do so, it's like saying RD is weaker than Applebloom, because RD hasn't bucked trees

 

Oh, and when Celestia faced off against the Changeling Queen, she attacked without seeming very concerned with possible collateral damage. Either she isn't all that strong, or she didn't use full force against the Queen, which makes her defeat both more understandable and sillier at the same time

She was holding back, compare their facial expressions. 

Chrysalis is on the verge of wetting herself and is screaming "No!" whilst Celestia just looks mildly annoyed. 

 

Even Chrysalis admits that she's shocked she could do it. The final nail in the coffin is that Chrysalis doesn't care about Luna. If Luna was stronger, her boast that she's stronger than Celestia is pointless

[Tao 7,496]

Luna

 

I think Luna has more of a edge in being

more of a warrior if anything.  She would

do what has to be done in the protection

of the Lands and all the creatures!

[Fractured 2,684]

@,

 

Wait... whats that? Ive never seen that pic before XD 

From the Reflections comic arc. It happened while Celestia was in a fight with her alternate universe self.

...long story.

 

@,

>Resisting enormous urge to go on a rant about comics being canon 

 

 

 

@@Hive King,

 

No crap she can't turn into nightmare moon at will, im saying that she has the same magical power inside her even in normal form. Nightmare moon is just more evil and knows how to summon that power within... I guess. And you right, Celestia didn't fight back, she ran and went down in one shot, then Celestia knew she had to 'Fight Back'. But she knew the only way to beat her sister was to use the elements of harmony, Further clueing in that Luna is above Celestia in power.

 

If Luna has this magical power inside of her, then she is stronger than Celestia. As I previously stated, magic cannot just disappear, therefore Luna must still have that magical power inside of her.

 

It's more of a magical adrenaline rush... it's not something you can just access at will.

regardless, I suppose you could say Nightmare is stronger for being able to take control of Celestia's sun(Still don't know what she did with it), but this is Luna v Celestia, and near as I can tell, they're evenly matched.

[Chivalry Knight 161]

@,
What? Comic? What? I dont understand these words you are telling me... Theres a comic?... what? 

[Nuke87654 1,849]

@,

What? Comic? What? I dont understand these words you are telling me... Theres a comic?... what? 

 

He means issues #17-20 or better known as the Reflections arc. It's one of the most divisive arcs in FIM as alot of people, including me really didn't like how Celestia was portrayed in that arc.

 

That scan is from the final issue specifically.

[Chivalry Knight 161]

@@Nuke87654,

What are you talking about? Arc? what Arc? Noahs Arc? #17 - 20? Reflections? BAH! I don't understand these forums sometimes -_-

[Jeric 46,850]

I am enjoying reading the interpretations found here. Personally I can see a case being made for either of them considering the canonical gaps that still exist regarding Alicorn magic, and the lack of on screen and on page fighting. 

@@Nuke87654,

What are you talking about? Arc? what Arc? Noahs Arc? #17 - 20? Reflections? BAH! I don't understand these forums sometimes -_-

 

They are discussing a storyline in the official MLP Comic Book published by IDW. It's very popular and featured constantly on Equestria Daily. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Little_Pony:_Friendship_Is_Magic_(comic_book)

[Mr. Mustang 647]

Depends on this, Luna has been able to re-transform into Nightmare Moon, but the question is, is it only cosmetic or does she regain all that power as well?

 

As we've seen in S4 Nightmare Moon had Celestia on the run, right up until the Elements of Harmony were used.

 

I'd say Luna as she is right now likely couldn't beat Celestia, but if she can attain the level of power she had when she was Nightmare Moon AND stay in control, I'd say she could easily win.

[Nuke87654 1,849]

 

 

They are discussing a storyline in the official MLP Comic Book published by IDW. It's very popular and featured constantly on Equestria Daily. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Little_Pony:_Friendship_Is_Magic_(comic_book)

 

 

Oops, thought you meant the reflections arc not the comics in general. Yea the comics are pretty popular and many are well worth it despite my opinion that they're either hit or miss.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Nuke87654

[Hive King 2,001]

I don't count the comics at all, but even so, Chrysalis uses Celestia as the boast for her power. If Luna were stronger, then her boast would be meaningless

"Even more powerful than Celestia...even though her sister will kick my ass!"

[Jeric 46,850]

Oops, thought you meant the reflections arc not the comics in general. Yea the comics are pretty popular and many are well worth it despite my opinion that they're either hit or miss.

 

Should have qualified that the comic title in general is popular ... Reflections ... not so much.  :okiedokielokie:

 

Regarding Luna, I wonder about the Nightmare Rarity arc and the implications that Luna's Nightmare transformation may  have been external invited by emotional weakness, yet her 'new form' came after its influence.

[Hive King 2,001]

Luna's nightmare form could make her equal to Celestia and still explain her showings. Celestia was hit while she wasn't trying to defend or fight back

[Jeric 46,850]

I don't count the comics at all, but even so, Chrysalis uses Celestia as the boast for her power. If Luna were stronger, then her boast would be meaningless

"Even more powerful than Celestia...even though her sister will kick my ass!"

 

The dialog would hardly make sense with adding Luna into the equation due to her absence. Also, it's a fact based statement. The focus at the time was not Luna, why would she bring up Luna?

Luna's nightmare form could make her equal to Celestia and still explain her showings. Celestia was hit while she wasn't trying to defend or fight back

 

This means Rarity is more powerful that both. I like where this is going.

[Nuke87654 1,849]

Should have qualified that the comic title in general is popular ... Reflections ... not so much.  :okiedokielokie:

 

Regarding Luna, I wonder about the Nightmare Rarity arc and the implications that Luna's Nightmare transformation may  have been external invited by emotional weakness, yet her 'new form' came after its influence.

 

Agreed.

 

As for the Nightmare Rarity arc, it's heavily implied the arc takes place late in Season 3 as Trixie was shown and mentioned of how ponies deserved 2nd chances, suggesting that the arc at least took place after the 'Magic Duel' episode. Meaning that Nightmare forces return somehow caused her to lose her powers for whatever reason because apparently being emotionally distressed makes Alicorns lose their powers despite Season 4 having them drained of their powers and not losing their flowy mane. Only their cutie marks were lost.

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

The dialog would hardly make sense with adding Luna into the equation due to her absence. Also, it's a fact based statement. The focus at the time was not Luna, why would she bring up Luna?

Because it would make her boast absolutely worthless. Another example would be if a Justice League enemy beat up Batman

"HAHAH, I'M EVEN STRONGER THAN BATMAN! Even though Superman is about to wipe the floor with me!"

 

 

This means Rarity is more powerful that both. I like where this is going.

Insane troll logic much? There's nothing saying the Nightmare Boost(the comics and show are different in that respect) is multiplicative or additive, could just give them power based on their inner darkness, based on their maximum potential, based on anything. 

 

Also, Rarity is weak as mud, even Trixie's magic was able to mulch her pride. 

[JonasDarkmane 19,785]

Personally I think Luna would win because Celestia wouldn't have the guts to defeat her own sister (and if she does not have the Elements of Harmony so that there would be no banishment available). If we talk about strength however, I think Celestia is stronger. 

[Hive King 2,001]

Personally I think Luna would win because Celestia wouldn't have the guts to defeat her own sister (and if she does not have the Elements of Harmony so that there would be no banishment available). If we talk about strength however, I think Celestia is stronger. 

OP says the two of them are going all out, so moral license is out of the way

[Jeric 46,850]

Insane troll logic much? There's nothing saying the Nightmare Boost(the comics and show are different in that respect) is multiplicative or additive, could just give them power based on their inner darkness, based on their maximum potential, based on anything. 

 

Oh you. I don't debate Ponies I discuss them all in a relative sense looking at things through the interpretation of others. Look over my posts, it's kinda my thing. I rarely say, "Dude you're wrong!" This show is created with multiple layers of interpretation available. It's one of the better aspects of it. 

 

Of course I don't believe Rarity is a stronger magic user than Luna or Celestia. However, if one believes that the Nightmare Force enhances magical capabilities, and that Luna would not have that latent ability naturally, one could apply that logic to the Nightmare Rarity arc. A lot of individual interpretation could hinge on the concept of the Nightmare forms. 

 

Nightmare Rarity did seem to hold her own against Luna. It's an interesting piece of evidence to consider when trying to analyze the idea of who is more powerful. Of course the real answer is we just don't know for certain. 

 

 

Because it would make her boast absolutely worthless. Another example would be if a Justice League enemy beat up Batman "HAHAH, I'M EVEN STRONGER THAN BATMAN! Even though Superman is about to wipe the floor with me!"

 

If Superman is in the same room, I agree. And considering such dialog is very much present in Batman comics that don't feature Superman ... shrugs. I mean Trixie didn't say anything about Tia or Luna in Magic Duel. The dialog would not make sense. Didn't she just appear at the very end right before 'Love is in Bloom'. Luna was not present during the battle. Name dropping her would not make narrative sense. 

[Countess Noodle 607]

Is there even any question. Celestia would win against Luna. Really need a Celestia Icon. 

[Hive King 2,001]

@@Jeric,

Yeah, but Batman villains never claim that they can take over the world because they know Superman will kick their ass. They don't make over extended boasts

 

As for Trixie, she never said she was the most powerful. She gloated that she was the most powerful unicorn, true, but that is indeed

[Cheshire-Maddie 9]

It would depend on a number of factor, the key one being why are they fighting? Under normal circumstances I do believe Celestia would win but if princess Luna were enraged enough I believe that her powers would greatly grow, giving her the far better odds of winning.

[Jeric 46,850]

@@Jeric,

Yeah, but Batman villains never claim that they can take over the world because they know Superman will kick their ass. They don't make over extended boasts

 

As for Trixie, she never said she was the most powerful. She gloated that she was the most powerful unicorn, true, but that is indeed

 

Trixie did claim that she was going to take over Equestria. 

 

And Freeze, Music Meister, Ra's, and Poison Ivy have all made world conquering claims before. Of course Pamela did actually techincally defeat Supes in a way, so maybe she had a point. 

 

My point is that there is a villain trope related to what the Changeling Queen said. Overconfident villains are a dime a dozen in moments just like that. Happens in Batman and Detective Comics because it's really common. 

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

Trixie did claim that she was going to take over Equestria. 

Poisoning is still a thing

 

 

And Freeze, Music Meister, Ra's, and Poison Ivy have all made world conquering claims before. Of course Pamela did actually techincally defeat Supes in a way, so maybe she had a point. 

Freeze has tried to freeze the world, but not rule it, and Ra's has the resources to do it(contact Lex Luthor)

 

 

My point is that there is a villain trope related to what the Changeling Queen said. Overconfident villains are a dime a dozen in moments just like that. Happens in Batman and Detective Comics because it's really common. 

Chrysalis was overconfident, but she wasn't that arrogant as to think that if Luna was stronger than Celestia, then her beating Celestia means something