Unfortunate implications

[Drakkon 362]

Hmm, I guess there's also Trade Ya, where Twilight (a librarian) learns that instead of giving books to children, the kind of books that made her into the pony she is today, she should instead hold onto them forever so no one can read them.

That's not really fair. I have an old book about the concept of programming, but it was the first book I read—courtesy of my uncle—about programming. I may lend it out to someone one day, but it has special meaning to me—I am unlikely to dump it or hand it out to a random person.

 

Similar reasons are drawn here, not to mention that this really wasn't the lesson of the episode.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

That's not really fair. I have an old book about the concept of programming, but it was the first book I read—courtesy of my uncle—about programming. I may lend it out to someone one day, but it has special meaning to me—I am unlikely to dump it or hand it out to a random person.

 

Similar reasons are drawn here, not to mention that this really wasn't the lesson of the episode.

There wasn't any particular lesson of the episode because there were three separate lessons. And if you declared that you'd never offer that book to anyone, I'd say the same thing to you. It's literally her job to give books to people, you'd think she would at least understand the value and virtue in doing so.

[Drakkon 362]

There wasn't any particular lesson of the episode because there were three separate lessons. And if you declared that you'd never offer that book to anyone, I'd say the same thing to you. It's literally her job to give books to people, you'd think she would at least understand the value and virtue in doing so.

Just because it's her job doesn't mean it's her lifelong dream to give books to everyone. Your job doesn't define you, same as a garbage disposal man doesn't feel the unquenchable need to take out somebody's full garbage when he comes across it on an off-day. Not to mention, it's not her job—my mother works at the library as well, but she's a data engineer. It's a volunteer thing in town, separate from her job, and I would say there are similarities here with Twilight, considering she's a princess, and before that a student.

 

She also didn't declare she'd never give the book to anyone—she said what I said, that those books have special meaning and she shouldn't just give them away like that. That being at some fair to some stranger; same as I'd be happy to part with my book to a junior family member one day to help them. Those books have special meaning, if you are to part with them it should be under similarly special circumstances.

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,161]

 It's literally her job to give books to people

 

The highlighted part probably needs some clarification. Yeah, she lives in a library, but I doubt that all of the books she has are part of the public collection available for rent by citizens. I'm sure she has her own private collection that while she probably doesn't have any problem lending to people, they still belong to her which is why she was offering them up in the episode.

[RainbowTashie 378]

yeah they could've resolved the maud episode a little better and have the moral that we can't always get on with everpony like cranky doodle almost demonstrated 

[Cwanky 17,588]

As my favorite character in the show is Cranky D Donkey I do feel the need to single out A Friend in Deed as an episode with very questionable morals and lessons. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I still do love A Friend in Deed. It has a great opening song and intro, the message is good, Cranky has a and the congreat theme and characterization, and the conclusion is a nice appropriate and heartwarming. The execution however is sorely amiss, which harms the episode significantly and the message its trying to convey, especially towards a younger target audience.

 

Pinkie does several wrong and egregious acts in the episode:

 

1. She seemingly shows no respect for Cranky and his personal space or privacy.

2. She relentlessly stalks him even when he explicitly tells her not to, and acting against Twilight and Rainbow's advice.

3. She trespasses his property and uses and destroys a possession of his without his permission.

4. She pretty much doesn't listen to anyone at all save herself.

 

In the real world, most of these actions would be considered illegal to begin with and could land Pinkie in jail, if not at least get a fine or restraining order. So on top of the implications we haven't covered yet, its almost as if Pinkie is encouraging kids to become lawbreakers to achieve otherwise noble goals.

 

Its unfortunate really because Pinkie's exercise routine at the beginning was pretty damn hilarious. Instead in retrospect, it looks more like Pinkie is just working herself up to prey on some poor unsuspecting citizen of Ponyville.

 

Pinkie is a laughable and good character of course, even if she's subject to much flanderization. And yes, she has in the past engaged in borderline creepy behavior, stalking the likes of Rainbow Dash and Twilight. The difference here though, was Cranky was not ever initially Pinkie's friend, nor did he appreciate the endless harassment. Yes a lot of fans will say she meant well and was trying to be nice, the same typical apologist excuse.

 

This still doesn't justify what Pinkie did. Endlessly bugging someone is NOT how you befriend them. If anything you may just have that person hate you and rebuke you. Instead of focusing on Pinkie getting ahold of herself and realizing her approach was wrong and finding a way to reconcile with Cranky early on, like bringing Matilda over, we get this montage of Pinkie chasing Cranky to the ends of the earth and nearly scaring the poor depressed donkey to death.

 

She didn't care that Cranky wanted to be left alone, nor did she care or bother to care to realize that he was depressed. The end goal here was Pinkie just trying to make another friend for her own selfish sake, not others. Ironically in her own attempt to bring someone joy she only caused misery.

 

Its only because at the end that a last ditch deus ex machina materializes that the viewers weren't even vaguely aware of that everything works out. Its a shame too that Pinkie didn't truly learn her lesson here. If the person in question being harassed was Fluttershy, who also doesn't like to be harassed, I guarantee you the fandom would jump all over Pinkie.

to

There's no sugarcoating it. Pinkie was a bully to Cranky, accidental or otherwise and she ignorantly chose to continue that behavior until it nearly backfired on her, save a last ditch poorly written save. Pinkie unfortunately does not live up to be the role model that she's supposed to be like the others do, and ends up becoming more of a gag for laughs. I hope the writers know well enough to change that in the future.

[Dark Qiviut 22,425]

I'll bump this one up, because one area where unfortunate implications really bothers me the most comes from badly written morals.

 

One of them I'll talk about comes from this Micro-Series comic.

 

For comic-readers, you might remember the wording of the moral.

 

And that's how I learned that you should never let your fear of being criticized stop you from expressing yourself through art!

 

Especially if you have terrific friends to help you do it!

 

Even though I suspect they do not understand the artistic impulse that drives me.

 

Which makes them even more terrific!

To explain what the moral is really trying to say, Fluttershy was trying to explain through the moral that you shouldn't let badly worded criticism stop you from loving your passions.

 

But there are three VERY big problems.

1. The wording is absolutely terrible. Rather than say really bogus criticism is bad, the moral states that all criticism is bad albeit only focusing on the negative type. Other types of criticism exists, including constructive criticism ("concrit," for short); the very next issue, constructive criticism resulted in Pinkie Pie coming up with the idea of starting a clown school.
2. The moral stems from snooty comments from Praiser Pan. The critic featured is a straw man, a character designed to be proven wrong only. Notice how all of his negative criticisms have absolutely no merit. They're just as crappy as destructive criticism and online flames disguised as criticisms.
3. The criticism angle is extremely contrived. In order to get the moral across, there was bad negative criticism. What about constructive criticism? By featuring just one type of critique, it's telling the audience only one type of criticism exists, and there's no purpose for criticism. There are multiple angles of criticism to explore. Secondly, the criticism angle pops up out of nowhere. It doesn't appear until Praiser Pan shows up. A moral such as "don't hide your passions" works much better because Part 1 was about her having a secret passion and being afraid to admit it.

Yes, the comics have more of the older audience in mind, while the show balances between kids and adults. One big problem: children read the comics, too. As worded, it's a terrible lesson to teach children. Not all criticism is good. We all know that. But to paint criticism under a broad brush teaches kids that they should be praised only. Never insult children.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[LnksPony 7]

I feel bad for the mules and donkeys in this show. They do tend to have ugly designs, be the brunt of mule jokes; and of course have no cutie mark, or even a talent:

[The Nth Doctor 662]

Remember kids, you can enslave an entire town of ponies, attempt to rewrite time and be an overall insane individual, but as long as you have a lackluster excuse (seriously, your friend moves away to get an education and you flip out?) you can live in a castle and not do any jail time, Yay!

 

Same goes for Sunset Shimmer and Sci-Twi from EQG

[cmarston1 5,959]

Starlight Glimmer's redemption is full of it.

For starters the actions that she committed throughout season 5 consisted of literally torturing other ponies by brainwashing them in her reeducation center, that in turn allowed her to enslave an entire town, removing the inner most beings of said ponies and turning them into empty husks, assimilating them into her doctrine, planning to do the same to the rest of Equestria, being an actual cult leader, resisting arrest, breaking and entering, stalking and spying, actively trying to ruin someone's life, several murder attempts, royally screwing over the time space continuum, which lead to apocalyptic timelines where all ponies are suffering because of her actions, including a barren wasteland where for all we know every single pony in Equestria is dead becuase of Starlight's actions.

And all of what because her friend moved away and didn't write to her and somehow we are supposed to believe that absolves her of any consequences to her horrific actions.

Way to teach kids that you don't have to take responsibility for your actions and that major human rights violations are forgivable.

And with how rushed her character redemption was, it makes the ending of the first EQG movie look like the ending to Return of the King.

Edited June 25, 2016 by cmarston1

[Thrond 3,263]

I don't usually focus on unfortunate implications in my reviews. The aforementioned "Dragon Quest," for example, is actually a favourite of mine, even though I understand its issues. With that said, particularly in season 5, I've been picking up on them more and more. For instance:

 

Appleoosa's Most Wanted

 

Making Troubleshoes' cutie mark a "bad luck" symbol is a really, really bad idea. What that tells me is that ponies are not in control of their own lives, and a random event they don't understand could ruin their entire life. There may be a lesson in that, but it's sure not in "Appleoosa's Most Wanted," and I find this show's idea of predestination re: cutie marks to be really grim and distressing. 

 

The Lost Treasure of Griffonstone

 

According to this episode, all griffons are greedy and selfish and just need some nice ponies to come in and teach them how to be friends again. This borders on being a metaphor for a "white saviour" narrative, where the poor, unfortunate savages need to be saved by the higher race, and even if you ignore that, it strains my suspension of disbelief that all the griffons needed was for some nice ponies to teach them how to make friends. To me, this is far worse that merely playing with a generic "always chaotic evil" fantasy trope for the dragons. 

 

Slice of Life

 

This one's more meta, but describing Lyra and Bon Bon's relationship as "best friends" feels to me like it borders on erasure. If you want to make an episode with the "fan characters," why would you ignore this particular element of the fan characterization? Aside from trying to avoid controversy and sell the show in notoriously homophobic countries, why not make these two a couple? You know the fans like that idea. Can't have anyone but heterosexuals exist in this universe! 

 

I get that they want to play it safe, but that does bring implications that I'm not entirely comfortable with. Thankfully the rest of the episode is great. 

 

Amending Fences

 

At times, Moondancer almost resembled an unflattering caricature of an introvert. Here more than anywhere else I might be looking too deep into it, but at times I feel like this episode is painting introverts as merely being people who need friendship to become extroverts. Having Twilight basically stalk and harass her for the whole episode certainly doesn't help, as I don't think that's at all appropriate. Of course, Moondancer actually did shy away from friendship due to a negative experience, but again, at times it feels like that's how the episode is painting introverts in general, if only because I don't find Moondancer's reason for rejecting friendship especially sympathetic or plausible. I would have respected the episode much more if having lots of friendships just wasn't for her. 

 

Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep?

 

This was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. So Luna clearly has psychological issues as a result of her past, but she ultimately saves Ponyville from the Tantibus by "just moving on." The writers know it's not that easy, right? You can't tell people to "just get over it," especially if they seem to have serious issues like Luna does. 

 

Brotherhooves Social

 

I think this episode does make some effort to be cautious with its "man-in-a-dress" premise, but it's clearly not cautious enough, because there are a few moments that could be interpreted as unintentionally transphobic, particularly Big Mac's Adam's apple bulging while he sings and Rainbow Dash saying she won't go easy on him "just because he's a stallion." This premise is really sensitive territory, and while I quite liked this episode, it might not have been the best approach for what this episode is going for. 

 

Gauntlet of Fire

 

Not sure how this is all that different from "Dragon Quest," except that it trades the character nuance of that episode for largely weightless worldbuilding. Dragons are still largely rude and aggressive, and moreover, it brings back the "Lost Treasure of Griffonstone" problem of another race needing ponies to teach them values of friendship and respect. 

 

Newbie Dash

 

Still don't think this episode promotes or supports hazing, but that's only because I think it ignores the potential hazing subtext altogether, which does leave the room open for a less than charitable interpretation. Others have explained this interpretation better. 

[Dark Qiviut 22,425]

Amending Fences

You're looking for an implication that doesn't exist.

1. Moondancer was an introvert, but attempted to put in the effort into coming out of her shell to greet someone and gain someone's trust. Twinkleshine, Minny, and LH were able to convince her that there was someone she could relate to her and set up a party for Twilight while the others tried to convince her to come. Instead, she blew off the invitation for "studying" and left without saying goodbye.
2. It was the first time she attempted to extend a hand of friendship to anyone, and the flashback showed us she didn't rush it. This was planned, and she spent plenty of time for this. This embarrassment happened while she was at her most vulnerable; whatever trust remained broke. It's very believable for her to reject friendship and trust of anyone. To her, any more effort means risking the pain of being shown up and humiliated again.
3. It's perfectly justified of Twilight to follow her and reach out to her. Moondancer devolved from introversion to reclusion, and a very guilty Twilight wanted to make up for it. Twilight had a hand in MD's social decline, because she didn't think ahead of time that Moondancer's party was that important. But just because she didn't think it was important to her doesn't mean it wasn't for MD, either.
4. MD is no caricature of an introvert. She's a character who lots of people can relate to. People can relate to her struggles to become friends, embarrassment, reclusion, and rejection. There are people young and old who felt hurt or rejected after someone they care for or a lot of people elect to stand up for her. Moments like what MD experienced can change a lot of people for the worse, and it happens all the time in real life. MD is the most thoroughly complex, relatable, and realistic secondary character of the whole show.

Not sure how this is all that different from "Dragon Quest,"

It's very different from Dragon Quest. While DW actively stereotypes dragons as xenophobia through sexist, xenophobic implications, dragons here have no one-track personality. They're different from one another, and only Garble is stereotypical. Torch has an expectation of leadership, but respects his dragon brothers and sisters and doesn't want Ember to get hurt in the trial. In addition, this episode didn't paint dragons as completely in the wrong or ponies completely in the right. Ember's "masculine" traits don't have stereotypical backings, and both ponies and dragons (and by extension, "femininity" and "masculinity," respectively) can learn from each other.

Edited June 25, 2016 by Dark Qiviut

[Thrond 3,263]

You're looking for an implication that doesn't exist.

I'll accept this; it's the one I consider most dubious out of all of these. 

 

 

1. It's perfectly justified of Twilight to follow her and reach out to her. Moondancer devolved from introversion to reclusion, and a very guilty Twilight wanted to make up for it. Twilight had a hand in MD's social decline, because she didn't think ahead of time that Moondancer's party was that important. But just because she didn't think it was important to her doesn't mean it wasn't for MD, either.

I dunno about that. Even if Moondancer did need help (which, I'll admit, she did), Twilight's approach felt a bit invasive to me.  

 

 

They're different from one another, 

Sure, but they still all seemed to fit within the show's general dragon framework to me. 

 

 

In addition, this episode didn't paint dragons as completely in the wrong or ponies completely in the right. 

Well, it's way better than "Griffonstone" in that regard, even if it still seems to me like the ponies are coming to share their superior values with the dragons. I might have found the episode more interesting if we saw any dragons striving for more acceptance towards ponies, but I don't remember any of that. Ember had to be convinced by Spike, the dragon who has adopted pony values. 

 

 

Ember's "masculine" traits don't have stereotypical backings, and both ponies and dragons (and by extension, "femininity" and "masculinity," respectively) can learn from each other.

I don't really read much into the gender dynamics of either episode, but even if Ember's "masculine" traits aren't a macho stereotype, they still strike me as very, very cliche. 

[Dark Qiviut 22,425]

 

 

I dunno about that. Even if Moondancer did need help (which, I'll admit, she did), Twilight's approach felt a bit invasive to me.

It makes sense for Twilight to get involved. Unlike Cranky in A Friend in Deed (its active comparison), MD's lifestyle was actively hurting her each passing second. Her decision to repress her feelings deteriorated herself and the environment around her. It'd be irresponsible for Twilight to not get involved. When MD rejected the party and aired her tears and anger at Twilight, it was obviously a long-time coming.

 

 

 

Sure, but they still all seemed to fit within the show's general dragon framework to me.

The framework of aggression is far different than from what DQ represented. In DQ, all of the teenage dragons were exactly the same minus their designs and voices, and they were all stereotypical bullies. GoF denounced this.

 

 

 

I might have found the episode more interesting if we saw any dragons striving for more acceptance towards ponies, but I don't remember any of that. Ember had to be convinced by Spike, the dragon who has adopted pony values.

1. Other than Garble, no one called to Torch's berth represented any threat to Celestia. If they didn't want to, that was fine. Spike only went in after Garble threatened slaughter.
2. In Dragon Quest, Spike learned to reject his identity as a dragon by stereotyping. Early in Gauntlet of Fire, he still held those beliefs even after he was called to Dragon Land. Working with Ember and lending her his scepter allowed him to accept that not all dragons are selfish scumbags, reintegrate into Dragon society without harsh feelings, and accept his identity better.

[Thrond 3,263]

It makes sense for Twilight to get involved. Unlike Cranky in A Friend in Deed (its active comparison), MD's lifestyle was actively hurting her each passing second. Her decision to repress her feelings deteriorated herself and the environment around her. It'd be irresponsible for Twilight to not get involved. When MD rejected the party and aired her tears and anger at Twilight, it was obviously a long-time coming.

That episode expects us to take a lot of things entirely on faith, and I might have been able to accept the necessity of Twilight stalking and harassing her if we had a better idea of how exactly Moondancer was being self-destructive besides shutting herself in. Maybe. Twilight was still blatantly invading Moondancer's privacy for no reason beyond her not wanting to be friends. 

 

 

1. Other than Garble, no one called to Torch's berth represented any threat to Celestia. If they didn't want to, that was fine. Spike only went in after Garble threatened slaughter.

That's not really what I'm talking about. My main point is that the whole idea that dragons don't make friends really doesn't seem to me to be all that much better than "Dragon Quest" painting dragons in a negative light. The only example of an actively friendly dragon we saw was Ember, and she only came around with Spike's help. "Dragons don't make friends" is both boring and slightly problematic as a characteristic of dragons if it only exists for ponies to show them better. Dragon culture is be considered "wrong" so ponies can show them the "right" way. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. In Dragon Quest, Spike learned to reject his identity as a dragon by stereotyping. Early in Gauntlet of Fire, he still held those beliefs even after he was called to Dragon Land. Working with Ember and lending her his scepter allowed him to accept that not all dragons are selfish scumbags, reintegrate into Dragon society without harsh feelings, and accept his identity better.

I guess this would be the difference. Wish I found this arc half as interesting as you do. 

[Glimmer 78]

Not sure if this fits, but I think the moral in Feeling Pinkie Keen could easily be misinterpreted, and was by many people, especially with this line: 

 

"There are wonderful things in this world you just can't explain, but that doesn't necessarily make them any less true. You just have to choose to believe in them."

It goes even further when the whole resolution of this episode only comes once Twilight learns to just take a leap of faith, rather than listening to her own initiative. Besides, Twilights obsession with trying to disprove the pinkie sense in this episode always came across as off to me. It would've made a lot more sense if she had tried to find out why pinkie has a pinkie sense, rather than trying to prove that it doesn't exist. Twilight isn't stupid, and the amount of times pinkie was right about her pinkie sense should have been enough to convince her that pinkie wasn't making it up.