S05:E08 - The Lost Treasure of Griffonstone

[NotoriousSMALL 1,984]

You're not considering the situation. The griffons think about money because they can't survive, perhaps through the day and tomorrow, without any source of income. Griffonstone is bankrupt. No income, they can't pay for food for themselves and possibly family members. No income, they can't pay to maintain their slums. No income, they starve and might eventually die. The griffon was wrong for not helping Dash, bits or not, but it's understandable why he asked.

"understandable why he asked" no, definitely not, who the FUCK asks for money at a time where someone's life is at stake? And you're still ignoring the fact that it was a very deplorable thing he did-leaving dash to DIE. for all he knew, no one knew she was there and you could see he was in no rush to go find someone else who could help her. Like I said, he wasn't losing any money by taking some time out of his day to hoist her out of the abyssal ravine or whatever it was called.

[Singe 2,109]

Griffons don't know the concepts of friendship, then that means there is no love and no marriage. So where do the children fit in?

 

They must have been employing an archaic method to have children and it cost bits.

[Dark Qiviut 22,214]

"understandable why he asked" no, definitely not, who the FUCK asks for money at a time where someone's life is at stake? And you're still ignoring the fact that it was a very deplorable thing he did-leaving dash to DIE. for all he knew, no one knew she was there and you could see he was in no rush to go find someone else who could help her. Like I said, he wasn't losing any money by taking some time out of his day to hoist her out of the abyssal ravine or whatever it was called.

Wrong again. Once again, assess the situation, and re-read the actual paragraph and my replies. Focus why he asked for bits. Observe the terrible conditions they all live in. They're apathetic for life because they see no hope for their future. If no one has bits, then they can't survive.

 

I made it very clear what he did was wrong. He shouldn't have done this. But his apathy is believable.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[Music Chart Fan 818]

People are cringing at Pinkies actions?

 

I saw that rope scene with Rainbow Dash and that was hilarious. People think that Pinkie Pie was stupid to throw the rope down, while i think that it was just her being childishly naive. Rainbow didn't exactly say, that she should bind the rope to a rock and then throw it down.

That's because they either have no sense of humor or they have a biased opinion against her because she's their least favorite.

 

The reason why I'm not laughing at Pinkie's actions like the rope scene is that I can't help thinking what it would be like if I were in the position of Rainbow or the other characters interacting with Pinkie. Would I like having a friend with whom I would have to explicitly and painstakingly explain things I want her to do, for fear of her not using any common sense and figuring it out for herself? Would I like having a friend with whom I have to check everything I say to make sure that the literal meaning is the intended meaning? Or, thinking about other Pinkie scenes in this episode, would I like having a friend who seems to lack the ability to put herself in someone else's place, and just assumes that anything she likes to do is something I and other people like to do? Would I like having a friend on a trip who doesn't think ahead and spends all her money on food on the train, and then asks me to borrow some of my money? I would find such a friend to be exasperating and annoying, and hence, when I watch these scenes with Pinkie being "childishly naive" or whatnot, I often feel the same way.

 

And I can recall several times across the episodes when the rest of the Mane Six express exasperation and annoyance at Pinkie's actions, but, adding to my frustration, nothing seems to come of it; Pinkie has mostly continued to exhibit these same traits of immaturity, lack of empathy, etc., regardless of how her friends react.

[Dark Qiviut 22,214]

 

 

That's because they either have no sense of humor or they have a biased opinion against her because she's their least favorite.

Never use a strawman to get your point across. A lot of bronies really disliked how Pinkie Pie acted in seasons three and four because she was flanderized. Normally, her humor has plenty of meaning into them. In other words, she responds in her own way. Often, S3 (and especially 4) devolved her into an idiot who cared for only what she saw in front of her and was completely oblivious and insensitive to others. Episodes like Pinkie Apple Pie, Maud Pie, and Pinkie Pride brought out the best in her, but then we saw how obnoxious and/or stupid she behaved in Rainbow Falls, Princess Twilight Sparkle, Trade Ya!, and especially Filli Vanilli. Here, it doesn't completely apply. In fact, Pinkie Pie has been really good this season. She made a really stupid mistake in TLToGS by misjudging the length of the rope, but she realizes it and tries to fix it.

[Ocean Melody 116]

I thought this episode was okay. It definitely wasn't the best, but it might just be that its hard to compete with last episode.

[Aurora Glimmer 494]

I think it was a good episode – probably the best M6 episode of the season thusfar. They did a good job of redeeming Gilda, who came off as a fairly one-dimensional bully back in Season 1, while also showing just why she’s the way she is. The ending was a little sappy, but it also didn’t end with everything being resolved immediately, which was a nice change of pace. So far, things are really looking up this season!

[thepinkapocalypse 72]

The reason why I'm not laughing at Pinkie's actions like the rope scene is that I can't help thinking what it would be like if I were in the position of Rainbow or the other characters interacting with Pinkie. Would I like having a friend with whom I would have to explicitly and painstakingly explain things I want her to do, for fear of her not using any common sense and figuring it out for herself? Would I like having a friend with whom I have to check everything I say to make sure that the literal meaning is the intended meaning? Or, thinking about other Pinkie scenes in this episode, would I like having a friend who seems to lack the ability to put herself in someone else's place, and just assumes that anything she likes to do is something I and other people like to do? Would I like having a friend on a trip who doesn't think ahead and spends all her money on food on the train, and then asks me to borrow some of my money? I would find such a friend to be exasperating and annoying, and hence, when I watch these scenes with Pinkie being "childishly naive" or whatnot, I often feel the same way.

 

And I can recall several times across the episodes when the rest of the Mane Six express exasperation and annoyance at Pinkie's actions, but, adding to my frustration, nothing seems to come of it; Pinkie has mostly continued to exhibit these same traits of immaturity, lack of empathy, etc., regardless of how her friends react.

Well my response to that is I'm glad i am not you. I would love to have a friend like pinkie and I feel sorry for you if you think those traits make pinkie a bad friend. Looks like you are the one who needs a friendship lesson clearly you haven't been watching the show close enough to know that ponies make mistakes and that if mistakes make you a bad friend then I'd hate to be friends with someone who would judge me harshly like that. If anything i rather have a friend like pinkie who screws up because at least she would be there for me when i am sad. When you are friends with someone YOU LOVE AND RESPECT THEM FOR THEM! you don't ask them to change for you ever! If you don't like them for the way they are then why be friends to begin with.  Pardon me for taking this so personally but the way you attack pinkie is insulting. I have friends like pinkie in real life and they helped me a lot in life and you just insulted them. Thank you its good to know being silly  means you are a horrible friend i will tell them that. being silly and stuff makes you a horrible friend. Yeah thats what we all want in a friend a type of person who will insult us and make us feel bad about ourselves for being the way we are.

 

 

Never use a strawman to get your point across. A lot of bronies really disliked how Pinkie Pie acted in seasons three and four because she was flanderized. Normally, her humor has plenty of meaning into them. In other words, she responds in her own way. Often, S3 (and especially 4) devolved her into an idiot who cared for only what she saw in front of her and was completely oblivious and insensitive to others. Episodes like Pinkie Apple Pie, Maud Pie, and Pinkie Pride brought out the best in her, but then we saw how obnoxious and/or stupid she behaved in Rainbow Falls, Princess Twilight Sparkle, Trade Ya!, and especially Filli Vanilli. Here, it doesn't completely apply. In fact, Pinkie Pie has been really good this season. She made a really stupid mistake in TLToGS by misjudging the length of the rope, but she realizes it and tries to fix it.

I know i know. I am just annoyed that people are hating on her for the mistakes in this episode like she did it on purpose. Even I agree that she was pretty flanderized in seasons three and four. I mean at least this season when she screws up she tries to fix it even when she does that she is still getting unneeded hate for it.

Edited May 25, 2015 by thepinkapocalypse

[NotoriousSMALL 1,984]

Wrong again. Once again, assess the situation, and re-read the actual paragraph and my replies. Focus why he asked for bits. Observe the terrible conditions they all live in. They're apathetic for life because they see no hope for their future. If no one has bits, then they can't survive.

 

I made it very clear what he did was wrong. He shouldn't have done this. But his apathy is believable.

apathy definitely isnt believable, unless he was a sociopath.

[Dark Qiviut 22,214]

apathy definitely isnt believable, unless he was a sociopath.

Apathy is very believable. The entire kingdom is going nowhere, and the griffons have no hope for their future. No bits = not being able to survive.

[Shoobedoo 44]

But the gigantic problem here is that the narrative treats friendship as the solution to all their problems. That once they all become friends, the problems will eventually go away.

 

No, it won't. The moral here has the same issue as One Bad Apple's solution to bullying: It's painted as the one solution to fix everything. Its corruption and overall issues are much more complex than that, and the episode bypasses them.

I thought the solution was pinkie's "baking powder"

[cuteycindyhoney 13,285]

Pinkie Pie reacts by grabbing the rope and jumps off the cliff which escalated the situation by placing Pinkie Pie and Gilda lives in danger alongside Rainbow Dash. That was overboard on Pinkie Pie's part in my mind.

I don't agree. If Pinkie didn't jump, Rainbow would not have been saved in time. As I said in an earlier post, Pinkie observed Gilda using her talons to arrest her own fall. Pinkie just had total faith in Gilda being able to save her, so she threw the rope around herself and jumped. Once she grabbed onto Rainbow Dash, she knew Gilda would be powerful enough to save two ponies. Notice, Pinkie also used her Pinkieness to fall FASTER than Rainbow, even while being tied to Gilda, who's wings were fully spread producing tremendous drag. Gilda on her own would not have been able to save Rainbow, but was well able to save a tethered Pinkie holding Rainbow. Pinkie's use of Pinkie logic and her physics warping nature saved the day. 

[Singe 2,109]

It just doesn't appear that way to me.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Singe

[cuteycindyhoney 13,285]

That sounds too far fetched for Pinkie Pie.

Watch the scene in question again. Rainbow fell, and Gilda tried to reach her. Gilda was slammed by the winds, and braked to a complete stop with her talons on the cliff wall. At this point, she had zero chance of a second attempt to reach the plummeting Rainbow. It is at this point that Pinkie, without a second to lose, grabbed the rope and jumped. You can see her clearly fall faster than Rainbow, pass Gilda, catch up, and manage to grab on to Rainbow. Their combined weight tore Gilda free from where she STILL hung motionless on the rock-face by her talons, but she managed to grab onto an outcropping on the way down and save them all. If Pinkie did not jump, Rainbow would have been the first of the mane six to die on the show. 

 

I stand by my analysis of the situation. 

[Singe 2,109]

I did, it still doesn't seem that way, and I stand by how I saw it.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Singe

[cuteycindyhoney 13,285]

I did and it still doesn't seem that way.

That's okay. I just don't happen to see it the same way that you do. Gilda is strong though. She climbed back up with Rainbow and Pinkie just dangling on the end of the rope! That takes some real upper body strength!

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

cutey is right! Pinkie's snap decision saves rainbow. If some non-magic ponies face this situation, they will be stunned and let rainbow meets her demise. Remember when pinkie was going to be crushed by the rock, Maud is the one who came to rescue pinkie IN TIME while the mane five just move ONE step... Pie sisters are always my favorite (hope its awesomeness run from their family)

[Music Chart Fan 818]

Well my response to that is I'm glad i am not you. I would love to have a friend like pinkie and I feel sorry for you if you think those traits make pinkie a bad friend. Looks like you are the one who needs a friendship lesson clearly you haven't been watching the show close enough to know that ponies make mistakes and that if mistakes make you a bad friend then I'd hate to be friends with someone who would judge me harshly like that. If anything i rather have a friend like pinkie who screws up because at least she would be there for me when i am sad. When you are friends with someone YOU LOVE AND RESPECT THEM FOR THEM! you don't ask them to change for you ever! If you don't like them for the way they are then why be friends to begin with.  Pardon me for taking this so personally but the way you attack pinkie is insulting. I have friends like pinkie in real life and they helped me a lot in life and you just insulted them. Thank you its good to know being silly  means you are a horrible friend i will tell them that.

 

Well, I think it's unlikely that I would become close friends with someone like Pinkie in real life. I would imagine that Pinkie's personality, interests, sense of humor, etc. wouldn't mesh well with mine, and I would struggle to relate to or understand someone like her. That doesn't mean that I would hate such a person or wouldn't appreciate anything that they do, and I recognize that other people would like to be, and would probably become, close friends with someone like Pinkie.

 

I would agree that it's unrealistic to expect someone else to drastically change their personality or their deeply-ingrained habits, and I probably wouldn't ask someone like Pinkie to do that in real life, because I probably wouldn't be close enough friends with such a person to want them to change that much for me. But it doesn't strike me as particularly unreasonable for the rest of the Mane Six to ask Pinkie to try to consider things from others' perspectives, to try to think before she acts, etc. I think trying to do these things would serve her well in her friendships, and I think that most people can probably change to some degree within their comfort zone, or be pushed a little outside of it, especially if it's close friends who are asking.

 

If it looks like I'm harshly judging Pinkie, that might be in part because I see myself as writing about a fictional TV character, and I approach that differently than I would if I were talking to (or about) a person, and especially a friend, in real life. My criticisms of Pinkie's actions are made in the context of her being a fictional character whose words and actions are created for a TV show, and so are not aimed at your friends or any other particular person.

 

It seems as though you really like Pinkie's character, and you see some of your friends in her, and so you're probably more inclined to view Pinkie's actions like throwing down the entire rope to Rainbow Dash without holding on to the other end as forgivable mistakes or even endearing quirks. On the other hand, I don't really relate to, understand, or like Pinkie's character, and I don't see anyone I know in real life in her, so I'm less inclined to overlook or forgive these actions, and they instead contribute to my general dislike of her character.

 

So, to me, it looks like, as a result of our different perspectives, our opinions of Pinkie's character (and perhaps our approaches to watching the show) will just be different, as well. I don't see anything wrong with that, and hopefully we can agree to disagree.

[PittyPaws 118]

I like that they finally put Gilda in another episode after so long and the we finally got to see a griffoncentric theme as well. 

 

It's interesting to note that the griffons don't do anything for anyone (including other griffons) unless they are paid to do so. Their city is in ruins, but they simply won't do anything about it if it means helping someone else out for free. This is what happens when you have apathy in society it leads to distopia.

This is what you get when you value money over everything else especially over people.  It leads to self destruction. 

 

Makes you wonder about the impoverished griffons out there who can't afford help. 

If a griffon was starving in Griffstone did the other griffons simply tell it to go die or ignore its cries for help if it had no bits. 

 

Okay I'm going to step down from the soapbox now. 

[thepinkapocalypse 72]

Well, I think it's unlikely that I would become close friends with someone like Pinkie in real life. I would imagine that Pinkie's personality, interests, sense of humor, etc. wouldn't mesh well with mine, and I would struggle to relate to or understand someone like her. That doesn't mean that I would hate such a person or wouldn't appreciate anything that they do, and I recognize that other people would like to be, and would probably become, close friends with someone like Pinkie.

 

I would agree that it's unrealistic to expect someone else to drastically change their personality or their deeply-ingrained habits, and I probably wouldn't ask someone like Pinkie to do that in real life, because I probably wouldn't be close enough friends with such a person to want them to change that much for me. But it doesn't strike me as particularly unreasonable for the rest of the Mane Six to ask Pinkie to try to consider things from others' perspectives, to try to think before she acts, etc. I think trying to do these things would serve her well in her friendships, and I think that most people can probably change to some degree within their comfort zone, or be pushed a little outside of it, especially if it's close friends who are asking.

 

If it looks like I'm harshly judging Pinkie, that might be in part because I see myself as writing about a fictional TV character, and I approach that differently than I would if I were talking to (or about) a person, and especially a friend, in real life. My criticisms of Pinkie's actions are made in the context of her being a fictional character whose words and actions are created for a TV show, and so are not aimed at your friends or any other particular person.

 

It seems as though you really like Pinkie's character, and you see some of your friends in her, and so you're probably more inclined to view Pinkie's actions like throwing down the entire rope to Rainbow Dash without holding on to the other end as forgivable mistakes or even endearing quirks. On the other hand, I don't really relate to, understand, or like Pinkie's character, and I don't see anyone I know in real life in her, so I'm less inclined to overlook or forgive these actions, and they instead contribute to my general dislike of her character.

 

So, to me, it looks like, as a result of our different perspectives, our opinions of Pinkie's character (and perhaps our approaches to watching the show) will just be different, as well. I don't see anything wrong with that, and hopefully we can agree to disagree.

Alright fair enough. in the end all we can do is agree to disagree. If all our perspectives were the same it would be pretty boring so we cool now?

[FlutterDash4072 189]

I did appreciate the griffon lore, but overall I just didn't care much for this episode.

[Bhending the Rules 697]

I really wish I could be around the forums during the weekend, when most of these episode discussions are going on. As it stands, I spend my weekends either working or sleeping and can never get here to check out the forum reaction and chime in until Monday morning. Pity.

 

I'll have more to say in video form soon, but I'll say this much now: this is an awesome episode, and I'm glad the fandom agrees with me for the first time in several weeks, because this is likely going down as one of my favorites of the series.

[MoltenKitten 341]

I was disappointed at the fact that there was setup for the smile song but then they slammed it down. I was ready to start singing.

[Singe 2,109]

Gilda: Pinkie Pie told me that our scones and learning the concept of friendship would be the way to restore Griffonstone.

Greta: Well, I was talking to this rich pony who would be willing to lend us the bits. Let's build a casino and call it the Golden Griffin.

Grampa Gruff: Aye, lass. That be an idea I would go along with.

Gilda: Okay, Golden Griffin.

*Statue sheds a tear.*

Greta: Why is the statue doing that?

Grampa Gruff: I remember that weird pink pony licking it earlier. It's made out of the same material as their salt licks.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Singe

[vivivh 16]

I'm sure everyone is as glad as I am that we have seen more griffons. I'm also glad that Gilda and Rainbow Dash are friends again, despite their little quarrel. Plus, Pinkie Pie is in there, too. I also agree with what cidershield said. I'm very happy to see that the map can call one or two ponies, instead of all six. It lets me know how interesting this season might get.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Moonaloo