S05:E08 - The Lost Treasure of Griffonstone

[JH24 385]

That was a great episode. I definitely enjoyed it. Pinkie Pie and Rainbow Dash have some good chemistry together.

 

Many funny moments (Loved for example "salty" Twilight and "Twilight" Dash), good and interesting interactions, good pacing with a variety of scenes, detailed worldbuilding and with character development.

 

I like how this show pokes fun at itself. With Pinkie not being allowed to sing, Rainbow telling Pinkie's comments were sappy, Pinkie's "baking powder" and "duly noted" comment, etc. 

Edited May 24, 2015 by JH24

[FizzyGreen 908]

This episode was really amazing, im giving it 8/10 points, or, well 4/5. It's the same.

 

I liked, how the map was involved in this and i also found it interesting, how the map picks 2 certain characters, to solve the problem. Not all of them. Smart map.

 

Hey Google! Can you do something like that too? Your Maps suck! And if you google "The Nigga House" you'll be directed to obamas white house! You suck!

 

Anyways, let's get further into this episode:

For one, it's nice to have some Griffons back in the show again. I'm sure BlackGryph0n is gonna be happy

But yeah, it also shows how different one species from another is. You see, i had the statement, till now, that all the creatures in equestria are basically peaceful, with a few exceptions.

But seems like i've been proven wrong. Griffons are unfriendly and greedy as it seems, or, were till now, cause they didn't know how to behave differently. 

Now, i was really happy to see Gilda again. I missed her, seriously.

Can you imagine, how much i felt sorry for her after reading Sorcerushorserus Dash Academy Comic? I wanted to cry at some point.

 

I didn't, by the way, i'm way to cool and tough for that. #swag #notears #legit #heartofsteel

 

So, okay, nice to see Gilda again, and it was still sad how Greedy Griffons we're, but at this point, i think it was the only thing they could think of. If you grew up in a society, which isn't connecting each other with social connections but rather with the things, the kingdom owns; how could you be a friend with anyone, when all the things, your friendship builds on are gone now?

So, in the kingdom everything just depends on greed and things that are "worth something". I guess that's also why that one griffon left Rainbow Dash alone. Because everything builds on money! The drive, to do something is the money. Sad.

 

But alright, Gilda was becoming friendly and did an 180° in like 3 or 15 seconds, and at this point, i really gotta say that i didn't like it.

Cause that was too fast. Something just was missing, but i guess thats just me, i always need a 2 parter to love it.

 

 

But yeah, overall it was a good episode, especially because of the moral, which is giving the griffons the sense of friendship (or something, i dunno). Also because of the griffons and because of hugs 'n love. Aaand because Gilda is friendly now.

Thats the short of it. 

Edited May 24, 2015 by FizzyGreen

[UnknownFry 169]

It was a good episode for what it was. Decent humor such as Rainbow Dash imitating Twilight, Twilight not suppressing her envy, and the whole little baking power little short they had at the end there. Superb world building with the history of the Griffon Kingdom detailed as well as as glimpse as Griffon society in the first episode to mainly take place outside Equestria, The return of Gilda was a delight, and she had a chance to redeem herself in the process as well while tying back into the events of Griffon The Brush Off while explaining why Gilda behaved the way she did. The two different approaches Rainbow Dash and Pinkie were equally amusing as I loved how the Griffons were driven by greed for money.

 

Maybe Twilight should visit Griffonstone one of these days to update her notes, as she had some good ideas based on outdated information.

 

I also wonder if the Idol of Beras may be one of those magical artifacts that was mentioned in the Cutie Map.

 

9/10

Edited May 24, 2015 by UnknownFry

[Luffyiscool 397]

I don't think Gilda changed that quickly.
I think she was actually regretful from the start, and most of the time she was just being tsundere.
"you're free to leave anytime, b-baka!"

[Argumedies 1,748]

Scones.... What happened to pancakes!!!

[Singe 2,109]

But alright, Gilda was becoming friendly and did an 180° in like 3 or 15 seconds, and at this point, i really gotta say that i didn't like it.

Cause that was too fast. Something just was missing, but i guess thats just me, i always need a 2 parter to love it.

 

Gilda doesn't really have a choice in the matter since Pinkie Pie's reacted stunt escalated the situation.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Singe

[Wind Chaser 4,767]

Unfortunately, it seems like I'm not really as enthused about this episode as others seem to be. It wasn't a bad one. There were some great visuals (except the Griffon Kingdom, which turned out to be a minor disappointment to me, I expected it to be bigger and more open), well-written dialogue, and it was great to see Gilda come full-circle after 4 seasons away with barely even a mention. It expands on her character to see why she's this way, practically living in the Equestrian equivalent to the ghetto, and even more to see her come around in the end, even if it was in probably the most cliche way possible.

 

The message of this episode, however, was just another one of those "Yay Friendship!" kinds of episodes that really doesn't add much of another layer to the conflict except for one we've already seen. It seems very markedly similar to "The Cutie Map". Both towns seem to be suffering from a kind of "magic feather syndrome", so named for the "magic" feather from Dumbo, in believing that there was one possession that was the ticket to solving all of their problems in order to blind themselves from harsher realities. In the case of the "nondescript" village from "The Cutie Map", it was Starlight Glimmer, the Staff of Sameness, and her ideology. In this one, it was the Idol of Boreas (fittingly called an "idol" in accordance with the Bible's negative connotation of such).

 

We've seen this time and time again and this episode really doesn't do much to shake up the formula, although the message behind it isn't really all that bad. The fact that it's been done definitely holds this episode back from me seeing it as one of the best, but it does nothing in particular wrong, either.

 

 

I have one major problem with the moral's approach. Here, Pinkie and Dash realize that the reason Griffonstone is in such trouble is because they're not friends with each other. Nononononononononono!

 

Griffinstone is a wasteland. There's nothing exciting or endearing about this place. The houses are rundown. There's no food, no water. It's desolate out there, and chances are they don't get much rain by how dry the ground and sky look. Present-day griffons have every reason to be grumpy: While others such as Ponyville thrive, Griffonstone looks war-torn.

 

Someone here implicated how greed can lead to problems in society and friendship to heal itself for the future. The problem is there's a deep disconnect between what the moral is trying to say and what they're saying. The griffons here aren't greedy. They're fighting for survival. They don't ask for money at any given turn without reason. As comedic as many of the scenes are, the griffons are in very deep trouble. If they don't ask for money, they starve and will die.

 

The episode treats the moral as a one-size-fit-all solution to Griffinstone's problems (and by association, others in real life). That doesn't work. Even if society is welcoming and friends with each other, that still won't solve the economic and agricultural turmoil. Friendship can only build so much, and it's a false pretense to believe otherwise. Sure, it's a start to maybe building Griffinstone back up, but the griffins are in a life-or-death predicament, and they don't completely treat it as such.

I really get where you're coming from, but I see this problem coming more from how the episode stated and framed the moral rather than the moral itself.

 

There is a positive implication, had the moral been stated differently. Of course the town is run-down and struggling for survival, and griffons are cutting each other off in order to live day-to-day. But if you really think about it, friendship could actually end up being beneficial to bringing the town back. The Griffon Kingdom is hell only because the griffons themselves are letting it turn into hell.

 

Implying that the Griffon Kingdom controls its own fate, to an extent, because the Idol of Boreas was no use, friendships can foster cooperation that could potentially bring the place back. Imagine if Gilda or Gustave LeGrande (or however you spell that one) had contacts back in the Griffon Kingdom. Gilda could have inspired other Griffons to be great flyers on the level of the Pegasi, or Gustave could have made sure Kingdom baking didn't deteriorate to the point of breaking all of Pinkie's teeth (a moment very reminiscent of Sugar Belle's baking). In all truth, I find the moral justified, cliche as it was, in that having friendship offers more benefit to this town than not having it does. The episode just needed to do more with its execution.

[Sig Hoovestrong 837]

Love the episode, but still am in belief that griffons are jerks. Well at least most of them.

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

Understandable to ask, sure, but after it became clear that Rainbow Dash had no more bits to give, the guide literally left her to die. That is not understandable, that shows a callous disregard for life. Why not help in exchange for the necessary bits later?

Once more, assess the way the griffons live. They ask for bits because they don't know if they'll survive the next day. They don't think about anything other than money because they're dependent on it. This griffon is no exception. There's no doubt what he said was wrong, but think about it. Like everyone else, he wants to survive. They don't have the resources like Dash, Pinkie, or Ponyville overall. The ponies have affluent lifestyles, but the griffons don't. Their apathy for life is very believable.

 

Realism is great, but this is not the nitty-gritty kind of show. Heck, for many fans, that's the mane draw, that we can have uplifting and positive morals in contrast to a world that sadly is too often lacking in that sort of thing. Can it go too far? Sure. But better that than cynical realism.

Blind optimism is just as bad as being completely cynical. Optimism is a great thing to have, but you also need to treat optimism with some level of respect. The problem here is how they treat Griffonstone's solution as the solution. That once they all become friends, it'll all go away. That's beyond blind optimism. It's teaching kids a lie. If the lesson was how they can help recreate their community to try to build a better future, then it would work. But that's not what the episode implied nor stated. Instead, they said the reason why Griffonstone spiraled out of control is because they're not friends. In other words, if they're friends, the problems will go away. That's bullshit.

 

Compare it to the season premier. The four ponies at the end became friends, but they acknowledge they still have to get to know each other and are looking forward to that. It's a hopeful beginning rather than a convenient ending.

The Cutie Map directly implied that these problems weren't going to go away. They know their community's changing, and they know they can start refurbishing the town to build a better future. Baby steps are needed, but they also have some resources, particularly the food and infrastructure, to help jumpstart their rebuilding process. Griffonstone's situation is one hundred times worse.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[guest243535531ty43 219]

Really loved this episode especially for its references to the myth of Arimaspi and the griffons and I loved the Tatar-like hats RD and Pinkie sported as they went to the Hyperborean-like kingdom of Griffonstone. So much world-building that it fills me with a childlike wonder again about our histories and myths.   The dialogue and characterization was spot-on for both RD and Pinkie. Not much else to say but that this is a great episode.

 

Unfortunately, it seems like I'm not really as enthused about this episode as others seem to be. It wasn't a bad one. There were some great visuals (except the Griffon Kingdom, which turned out to be a minor disappointment to me, I expected it to be bigger and more open), well-written dialogue, and it was great to see Gilda come full-circle after 4 seasons away with barely even a mention. It expands on her character to see why she's this way, practically living in the Equestrian equivalent to the ghetto, and even more to see her come around in the end, even if it was in probably the most cliche way possible.

 

The message of this episode, however, was just another one of those "Yay Friendship!" kinds of episodes that really doesn't add much of another layer to the conflict except for one we've already seen. It seems very markedly similar to "The Cutie Map". Both towns seem to be suffering from a kind of "magic feather syndrome", so named for the "magic" feather from Dumbo, in believing that there was one possession that was the ticket to solving all of their problems in order to blind themselves from harsher realities. In the case of the "nondescript" village from "The Cutie Map", it was Starlight Glimmer, the Staff of Sameness, and her ideology. In this one, it was the Idol of Boreas (fittingly called an "idol" in accordance with the Bible's negative connotation of such).

 

I think the "magic feather" syndrome is more like the placebo effect. I didn't see the symbols as things that simply rectified all problems. They were central objects that people could unite upon. With Our Town, it was an ideology of equality that Starlight Glimmer sincerely fought for and taught those who approached her, albeit as time passed she grew more hypocritical and more violently passionate about her ideology, but it was still something that people could unite upon regardless if it was because of idealism or fear (there were some questions as to why they united upon it that I wished were answered that you saw before if you remember: https://mlpforums.com/topic/125647-subtle-lessons-from-the-cutie-map/?p=3647503 ). The idol and the episode I speak of a little below.

 

Blind optimism is just as bad as being completely cynical. Optimism is a great thing to have, but you also need to treat optimism with some level of respect. The problem here is how they treat Griffonstone's solution as the solution. That once they all become friends, it was all go away. That's beyond blind optimism. It's teaching kids a lie. If the lesson was how they can help recreate their community to try to build a better future, then it would work. But that's not what the episode implied nor stated. Instead, they said the reason why Griffonstone spiraled out of control is because they're not friends. In other words, if they're friends, the problems will go away. That's bullshit.

Yes that's true that being blindly idealistic and hopeful about the future without working towards it won't get you anywhere, but I didn't see that as what the episode was intending. 

 

The griffons were once a divided race that fought one another due to their great avarice for gold. They were then united because they now had a central figure to lead them with the Idol of Boreas as a display of the right to leadership--considering that Griffonstone is like the land of the Hyperboreans, Boreas and the idol may be seen as divine objects which lead Grover to attain his position.

 

Now that the idol is gone so are any symbols of authority. Without the symbols, the griffons are no longer connected by a common history and culture. They are once again divided and schismatic, seeing each other as individuals fending for him or herself.

 

What Pinkie and Dash (and the episode) were trying to do in the initial steps was show Gilda that those symbols aren't necessary to connect people together. There's something greater and intangible that binds people together. Showing compassion and friendship to one another can reestablish that bond and reunite the griffons so they can move in a forward direction and surpass the limitations of their past and present. It may not fix their poverty or the dilapidated state of the kingdom immediately or perhaps even ever, but with the griffons having a more sympathetic attitude towards one another and being willing to abet those they can--even if it's just sharing a scone recipe or a treat--, it will make them feel more connected as a people and can result in some problems being fixed. 

 

I see it the same way as how the pony races united under Alicorn leadership because they are a symbol of harmony and friendship and have all the characteristics of the other three pony races. 

Edited May 24, 2015 by estoc

[Alex Z 848]

It was a pretty good episode.

[Wind Chaser 4,767]

I think the "magic feather" syndrome is more like the placebo effect. I didn't see the symbols as things that simply rectified all problems. They were central objects that people could unite upon.

That's true, but their loyalty to such objects was so blind and idealistic that they lost all sense of resposibility to themselves and the outside world. All of that because of the "magic feather syndrome"; the idea that they can solve the main problems with their lives just by merely believing in something, be it themselves, someone else, an object, or an idea. Only when that "magic feather" (the Idol or Starlight Glimmer) is taken away do they realize that they had the power to change their lives within them all along.

 

It's once they get past this point that how serious the story is about the moral is put to the test. Is it about the value of hard work and cooperation, or merely believing in something else?

 

This is where this episode kinda screwed up, as @Dark Qiviut sees it. The episode merely portrays changing the target of their beliefs to "friendship" as the one true answer. Unfortunately, merely portraying it as such was an oversimplification. In actuality, friendship is a great next step for the griffons to take, but it is only the first of many. The episode should instead have shown the griffons using their interpersonal connections to rebuild their town to its former glory.

 

What is most interesting is that, as usual, when worldbuilding is involved, there's at least one thing which is not expanded upon. This time, it was the backstory of the Idol of Boreas and how it was used during Grover's reign. How could a useless fake artifact hold belief for so many generations when creatures in this world have demonstrated that they usually know better? What exactly did the king hope to accomplish by using it? What were his actual intentions?

Edited May 24, 2015 by Wind Chaser

[Reaver 350]

I really liked this episode. All I knew about it was that Pinkie and Rainbow were disagreeing about something. When I watched it, there was this kingdom of griffins (yes! headcanon feed! WOOO) and they brought back Gilda! Wow, I'm so happy with what they did with the griffins.

Also, Gilda, Agent of Friendship. Princess Twilight Sparkle's forces are SPREADING! First, Griffonstone, soon, THE WORLD. HAHAH.

[Prince Firemane 309]

I personally really liked the episode, much more than I expected. I didn't expect to like it because as soon as Twilight mentioned Gilda, I knew she'd return and I was never a fan of Gilda. However, I really like how her character was presented here and now I am a genuine fan of hers. I'm glad her second episode rounded out her character more unlike Trixie's second episode which squandered possible character development.

 

Another thing I really liked was the fact that even though Twilight was featured in the beginning, she was mostly reigned in, and it was in character for her. She wanted to go learn more about griffon society and blatantly fangirl over the majesty she thought Griffonstone still was. But she opted, however petulantly, to stay behind as only Rainbow Dash and Pinkie Pie were summoned by the map; the only involvement she had after that was a little written book on griffons and Griffonstone which remained largely ignored after they arrived in the city itself.

 

However, there were also things I didn't like. I didn't much care for how suddenly greedy griffons are; it came out of left-field to me and was so extreme that many griffons refused to even speak with each other unless bits were exchanged. I didn't see that aspect in Gilda in her first episode nor in Gustave le Grande in his. It seemed to me to be an add-on to give griffons a gruff overall personality in an attempt to help explain why Gilda was the way she was. A little bit of greed is one thing, but to show and outright state that griffon greed rivals that of dragons is pretty heavy-handed.

 

Another thing I didn't like, and as I've read that other didn't like as well, was that it seems that its expected all of Griffonstone's problems will be solved with friendship. This is a problem that I've had with the series overall. Yeah, yeah; friendship is magic and all that; and supernatural forces of evil taken down with equally supernatural forces of friendship are one thing. But these are great problems of a societal nature, problems that friendship can't solve alone. I find Celestia at fault for this mindset. She has such blind faith in the power of friendship that she puts great responsibilities upon Twilight and her friends in the name of it. It's made even worse that now Twilight and her friends have now fallen under the spell of this blind faith. I'm still wanting to see an episode where friendship alone truly fails. But as friendship is magic, this'll probably never happen.

 

But all in all, I very much enjoyed this episode and I came to like Gilda because of it, something I never thought possible.

 

One thing that kept nagging at me though. Am I the only one that thinks that the Idol of Boreas could possibly be one of Mage Meadowbrook's eight items?

Edited May 24, 2015 by Prince Firemane

[thepinkapocalypse 72]

Gilda doesn't really have a choice in the matter since Pinkie Pie's reacted stunt escalated the situation.

You are saying that like its a bad thing. reacted stunt? what the do you mean the whole friendship and baking thing? also i have a feeling you are dissing pinkie here.

[Little Red 1,529]

It was a great episode in my opinion. I loved the world-building and character-building.

[Singe 2,109]

You are saying that like its a bad thing. reacted stunt? what the do you mean the whole friendship and baking thing? also i have a feeling you are dissing pinkie here.

 

Pinkie Pie reacts by grabbing the rope and jumps off the cliff which escalated the situation by placing Pinkie Pie and Gilda lives in danger alongside Rainbow Dash. That was overboard on Pinkie Pie's part in my mind.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Singe

[thepinkapocalypse 72]

That was a great episode. I definitely enjoyed it. Pinkie Pie and Rainbow Dash have some good chemistry together.

 

Many funny moments (Loved for example "salty" Twilight and "Twilight" Dash), good and interesting interactions, good pacing with a variety of scenes, detailed worldbuilding and with character development.

 

I like how this show pokes fun at itself. With Pinkie not being allowed to sing, Rainbow telling Pinkie's comments were sappy, Pinkie's "baking powder" and "duly noted" comment, etc. 

I agree I like this episode a lot too. And Gilda finally apologizing made me tear up. there was so much feels at the end. I don't care what the other cynical loving nay sayers on this site say I thought pinkie was awesome in this episode she wasn't too random or anything she was still weird but took things seriously. I rather have blind optimism and live a long life happy healthy life then live cynical  and angry at the world because apparently being cynical is cool now. So yeah the episode had a good moral.

[guest243535531ty43 219]

That's true, but their loyalty to such objects was so blind and idealistic that they lost all sense of resposibility to themselves and the outside world. All of that because of the "magic feather syndrome"; the idea that they can solve the main problems with their lives just by merely believing in something, be it themselves, someone else, an object, or an idea. Only when that "magic feather" (the Idol or Starlight Glimmer) is taken away do they realize that they had the power to change their lives within them all along.

 

It's once they get past this point that how serious the story is about the moral is put to the test. Is it about the value of hard work and cooperation, or merely believing in something else?

 

This is where this episode kinda screwed up, as @Dark Qiviut sees it. The episode merely portrays changing the target of their beliefs to "friendship" as the one true answer. Unfortunately, merely portraying it as such was an oversimplification. In actuality, friendship is a great next step for the griffons to take, but it is only the first of many. The episode should instead have shown the griffons using their interpersonal connections to rebuild their town to its former glory.

 

What is most interesting is that, as usual, when worldbuilding is involved, there's at least one thing which is not expanded upon. This time, it was the backstory of the Idol of Boreas and how it was used during Grover's reign. How could a useless fake artifact hold belief for so many generations when creatures in this world have demonstrated that they usually know better? What exactly did the king hope to accomplish by using it? What were his actual intentions?

 

Alright, I see the criticism now. I believe that's the writers were going with the idea of a greater sense of connection leading to a restoration instead of being the restoration itself, but I can see how Pinkie's spiel at the end and the abrupt departure of RD and Pinkie could make this episode have the typical, trite "friendship always solves the day" lesson. The short (and pretty funny) gag with how Pinkie's contribution to Gilda's griffonscone recipe was baking powder instead of friendship possibly implies that that's what they were going for but it was subtle and could've just been another "friendship is nauseating" moment.

 

I never saw them saying friendship is the answer to all the griffons' problems. It was the answer to the problem RD and Dash were sent to fix and the possible beginnings for a divided people to come together again. Perhaps under a new banner or perhaps not.

 

Personally don't think the rebuilding should have been shown this episode as it would mean the ponies would directly contribute to it. I would much rather the griffons rebuild their history and themselves as a people by themselves. It makes sense as they are a very proud people and rebuilding a civilization and a community takes a great amount of time. Decorating a castle in a montage? Perfectly fine with it. Rebuilding the Griffon Kingdom in one? I'd find it patronizing and a horrible lesson to leave off on--much worse than the one @@Dark Qiviut brought up. Though I understand where he comes from now.

 

Because of this, the moral to me isn't that symbols are important or that friendship will make everything better. It's that caring for other people provides a greater sense of fellowship and connectedness than any old symbols.

 

The artifact may have no utility but its value was likely because it had some divine connection or simply because it showed that Grover was the best at collecting gold or rare objects. It's possible that Grover just wanted to rule or he had plans to bring the griffons glory through uniting them under one ruler. It seems to have had more sentimental value and a symbol of "the right to rule" to the griffons as time passed since with its disappearance so did the pride of the griffons and their forward-thinking and constructive, albeit seemingly authoritarian, governance. 

 

Those symbols can still be important. We can see that in our world with how we can unite around a flag, a travesty, or an ideology--and those things can lead us to greatness and constructive works or to commit inhumane actions. MLP showed us both in a way with the griffons demonstrating the former and Starlight the latter.

Edited May 24, 2015 by estoc

[thepinkapocalypse 72]

 

Alright, I see the criticism now. I believe that's the writers were going with the idea of a greater sense of connection leading to a restoration instead of being the restoration itself, but I can see how Pinkie's spiel at the end and the abrupt departure of RD and Pinkie could make this episode have the typical, trite "friendship always solves the day" lesson. The short (and pretty funny) gag with how Pinkie's contribution to Gilda's griffonscone recipe was baking powder instead of friendship possibly implies that that's what they were going for but it was subtle and could've just been another "friendship is nauseating" moment.

 

I never saw them saying friendship is the answer to all the griffons' problems. It was the answer to the problem RD and Dash were sent to fix and the possible beginnings for a divided people to come together again. Perhaps under a new banner or perhaps not.

 

Personally don't think the rebuilding should have been shown this episode as it would mean the ponies would directly contribute to it. I would much rather the griffons rebuild their history and themselves as a people by themselves. It makes sense as they are a very proud people and rebuilding a civilization and a community takes a great amount of time. Decorating a castle in a montage? Perfectly fine with it. Rebuilding the Griffon Kingdom in one? I'd find it patronizing and a horrible lesson to leave off on--much worse than the one @@Dark Qiviut brought up. Though I understand where he comes from now.

 

Because of this, the moral to me isn't that symbols are important or that friendship will make everything better. It's that caring for other people provide a greater sense of fellowship and connectedness than any old symbols.

 

The artifact may have no utility but its value was likely because it had some divine connection or simply because it showed that Grover was the best at collecting gold or rare objects. It's possible that Grover just wanted to rule or he had plans to bring the griffons glory through uniting them under one ruler. It seems to have had more sentimental value and a symbol of "the right to rule" to the griffons as time passed since with its disappearance so did the pride of the griffons and their forward-thinking and constructive, albeit seemingly authoritarian, governance. 

 

Those symbols can still be important. We can see that in our world with how we can unite around a flag, a travesty, or an ideology--and those things can lead us to greatness and constructive works or to commit inhumane actions. MLP showed us both in a way with the griffons demonstrating the former and Starlight the latter.

You know being cynical doesn't make you cool right? just pointing that out there since you all are whining about how it teaches friendship, um this is a show about friendship get over it so all morals are going to have to do with friendship no matter what and if you don't like then that you are free to stop watching the show and you can watch something like batman that is full of cynicism. I swear people these days rather be angry at the world and full of hate instead of making friends with everyone.

[guest243535531ty43 219]

You know being cynical doesn't make you cool right? just pointing that out there since you all are whining about how it teaches friendship, um this is a show about friendship get over it so all morals are going to have to do with friendship no matter what and if you don't like then that you are free to stop watching the show and you can watch something like batman that is full of cynicism. I swear people these days rather be angry at the world and full of hate instead of making friends with everyone.

Sorry if I came across that way. I didn't intend for my posts to seem cynical or "anti-friendship". I liked the episode and liked what it had to say... 

Edited May 24, 2015 by estoc

[Wind Chaser 4,767]

You know being cynical doesn't make you cool right? just pointing that out there since you all are whining about how it teaches friendship, um this is a show about friendship get over it so all morals are going to have to do with friendship no matter what and if you don't like then that you are free to stop watching the show and you can watch something like batman that is full of cynicism. I swear people these days rather be angry at the world and full of hate instead of making friends with everyone.

Don't even try to sound like an authority on that issue because you are completely missing the point here. What he's doing is anything but whining. If you find this show perfect and can't take the thought of this show's themes being legitimately analyzed, then don't even make a pathetic attempt such as that to dissuade anyone from doing so.

[Singe 2,109]

Griffonstone becomes stagnant after the fallout and no griffins resorting to being criminals/bandits to rob from weaker neighbors.

[thepinkapocalypse 72]

Sorry if I came across that way. I didn't intend for my posts to seem cynical or "anti-friendship". I liked the episode and liked what it had to say...

It's cool I know you didn't mean too. Maybe the episode could have done more if it was a two parter.

[Cloud Strife 928]

You know being cynical doesn't make you cool right? just pointing that out there since you all are whining about how it teaches friendship, um this is a show about friendship get over it so all morals are going to have to do with friendship no matter what and if you don't like then that you are free to stop watching the show and you can watch something like batman that is full of cynicism. I swear people these days rather be angry at the world and full of hate instead of making friends with everyone.

 

You're right, the show is about friendship, and of course the morals are going to be about friendship, but that doesn't in any way mean that the morals can't be scrutinized. I'm very much in agreement with and @Jeric on this one, but at the same time I understand @Wind Chaser and @Dark Qiviut's criticisms, even if I don't agree with them, and it's worth hearing them out on their perspective, because there must be some reason that they got that impression from watching the episode.

 

They're not necessarily criticizing the fact that the moral is about friendship, anyway. What they're suggesting is that the moral is a bit too optimistic, to an unrealistic proportion. DQ put it rather passionately, but I'll restate what they said in that if you're too optimistic, you border on being delusional - that is, believing things that aren't necessarily true because they're positive. There's nothing wrong with being positive, but at the same time being in denial about possible negatives in the world and in yourself is the enemy of progression. Ignoring a problem in existence doesn't make it go away; it accentuates it. When you're in the real world, you want to have a good balance between cynicism and optimism, to the point that you don't see everything in rose-colored glasses but at the same time don't always view the situation as a glass half-empty. That way you don't bog yourself with unnecessary negativity, but at the same time don't get blindsided when negativity makes itself apparent, and know how to deal with it appropriately.

 

Of course, there's nothing wrong with you wanting to come to a show for optimism and optimism alone in order to make yourself feel better. Sometimes life can be taxing, and it's refreshing to come to a show as positive as My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, which did something brilliant in "Maud Pie" that subverted my expectations of preaching a negative "you can't make friends with everyone" moral and instead put a positive spin to it as "you can find common ground even with the most unlikely of people". If critical analysis of that isn't your thing, it's completely understandable. For some people, though, critical analysis is how they connect to the show. DQ and WC aren't criticizing it because they believe the show is terrible, hell DQ even said that they liked quite a few aspects of this particular episode; they're giving it criticism because they want it to improve and be the best that it can be, as well as have its implications considered so that people think into what they're watching, which is very important given what media can sometimes teach us. They, and others like them, like to think about what the show means to them and to other people, and what it can tell us about society, and they're perfectly within their right to do so.

 

If the 'complaining' is tiresome, keep in mind that's how people sometimes connect with their media, and that you don't ever have to subscribe to holding the same opinion as they do. There's also the fact that you should not feel even remotely ashamed for liking something despite how legitimate the criticisms directed at it are. If I can give an anecdote, there's a game I like called Shadow the Hedgehog, but there are many things objectively bad about it, and many people point out how bad a game it is. In a lot of those criticisms, I agree, but I still like it anyway and found it worth my time to play.