S09:E08 - Frenemies

[Will Guide 21,325]

6 minutes ago, Fluttertastic 16 said:

Nice that we finally got a villain episode and it was great. Best episode of the season by far. The song was amazing. I love how Cozy glow, tirek and Chrysalis are trying to hide the bell from grogar. And I love how Chrysalis can’t make up her mind as to who she wants revenge on.

A part of me is hoping Chrysalis actually goes completely mad as in how Cozy Glow was reacting to Rusty Bucket, but you know, any direction they go with the Changeling is fine.

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,543]

Cozy Glow on Tirek's shoulder reminds me of Rocket Raccoon with Groot. Why no one has made fanart of this yet is a mystery to me.

[Othersparkl99 5]

The one time being a non reformed changeling is actually useful 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/89FoCJX6yhkL4g4R6

[YoshiAngemon 223]

30 minutes ago, TheAnimationFanatic said:

Cozy Glow on Tirek's shoulder reminds me of Rocket Raccoon with Groot. Why no one has made fanart of this yet is a mystery to me.

I'm pretty sure @SaburoDaimando will most likely do that.

[Oleks 1,983]

This was a truly great episode. Something I wanted for a long time, but didn’t think we’d ever get: an entire episode focused on villains.
Everything in it totally worked for me: the story (I genuinely invested in it), the character interactions, the message about team work, the Disney-like song, the lore, all the continuity nods and, of course, Chrysalis being Log Lady. Also, bad guys accidentally almost reforming themselves was an interesting turn of events.
This is definitely me favorite episode of the season so far. Can’t wait to see what happens next with this team of frenemies.

[Rushing cash 824]

Wait, did cozy glow said "to crush our enemies to death" in the song? If I she did and I have not misheard, is this the first time they said death in the show?

[Will Guide 21,325]

Just now, Rushing cash said:

Wait, did cozy glow said "to crush our enemies to death" in the song? If I she did and I have not misheard, is this the first time they said death in the show?

Actually, in S4 premiere, Fluttershy said this about the Tree of Harmony: "I think it's dying"

5 minutes ago, Oleks said:

,the Disney-like song, 

Well, great Disney Villains have sung great songs. 

[Rushing cash 824]

Just now, Will Guide said:

Actually, in S4 premiere, Fluttershy said this about the Tree of Harmony: "I think it's dying"

Oh well, but still, this time it was said in a much more sinister way, not describing something but saying they will actually kill.  

[Goat-kun 2,498]

1 hour ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Are the villains main characters now? There weren’t any of the other main characters in this episode at all. If so, this show has 22 main characters. How did that happen?

It's nothing out of the ordinary for villains to be main or secondary characters that can carry whole episodes. A fresh perspective was always the go-to argument whenever one of us dastardly haters complained about Starlight and the bloating cast of characters that began to star in Maneless episodes. Little did they know that the fresh perspective was also our argument. Villains have now demonstrated what this actually looks like when executed wholeheartedly. All of Starfoals should now bow before the might of my past big brain arguments!

[Oleks 1,983]

4 minutes ago, Will Guide said:

Well, great Disney Villains have sung great songs. 

Of course the did. Great pony villains too (like Tempest Shadow in the movie). And I really liked this song. I even dare say it's one of the best MLP songs in a long time.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Oleks

[ChB 18,532]

All I can say about this episode is: I hope the ending the writers went with is a lead-up to something really good in future episodes.

[Misty Shadow 7,084]

One of the most unique episodes of the show in addition to being one of the finest. The instant I found out it was written by Michael Vogel was the instant I knew it was going to be good, just not this good. No pacing and storytelling flaws, they got the song out of the way as soon as possible to get straight to the plot, showed every villain at their best, and showed easily the best series of villain interactions in the show. The most pleasant surprise to me was the foreshadowing of Tirek, Cozy Glow, and Chrysalis turning the tables on Grogar at the end, I loved how they were able to learn how to work together without wanting to change their ways and were able to make the call to rise up against a foe clearly more powerful than them. That's not something I would've expected of them judging from their actions in the premiere, which showcases good character development. The most unpleasant surprise to me was no mention of Sombra. You'd think he'd be name-dropped here once with all the unexpected mentions this season, but I guess they're just really good at this game they're playing with his fans. 

12 minutes ago, Rushing cash said:

Wait, did cozy glow said "to crush our enemies to death" in the song? If I she did and I have not misheard, is this the first time they said death in the show?

You have misheard. It was "crush our enemies to dust". 

[Dynamo Pad 10,777]

I just finished watching the episode and I thought it was fantastic. It was interesting to see an episode that actually focused on only the villains. It felt like this was a different version of the episode, "The Mean 6." The only thing was that we didn't get to see Twilight and the others throughout the episode. I liked how we got to see the interactions between the other villains. It shows they still have their motives, but they all share a common goal. I was really surprised that there was a song in the episode, but the song was pretty good. Getting to see more of Grogar's backstory shows that there's more to him that we still may not know. I like how we get to see more world building even from the villain's perspective. Especially when it involved Mount Everhoof and going to retrieve the bewitching bell. I do wonder if we'll be getting to learn more of Gusty the Great from Twilight and the others. I feel as though it would help to get to learn both sides of the story.

I was even surprised how Grogar was able to easily overpower the other villains. I understood that he was strong in the season premiere, but I didn't think he was more powerful than what we had witnessed. When he said that he was barely using a fraction of his power, I wondered how strong he is when he's at full strength. It was interesting and funny how the other villains tried to scale atop the mountain to retrieve the bell. Even though they had to regroup, I liked how they got to understand how each of them did the things they did. It felt like they each got to know each other, while learning their strengths and weaknesses, or something along those lines. It was cool to see them working together to reach the top of the mountain. It was even shocking how Chrysalis gave up her magic to Tirek to allow him to bypass the barrier. I liked how we learned more about the characters like Tirek being able to drain the magic of a changeling. I only thought that he could drain the magic of ponies, but it seems there's more to his character than we thought. I liked how he chose to return Chrysalis's magic, but it was cool to see that they still want to be bad, instead of accepting the magic of friendship. What's also interesting is that the other villains made a sort of alliance, while still being loyal to Grogar. It makes me wonder how the rest of the season and finale will play out. I even wonder if the villains will try a plan one by one, or if they'll still be working together. Either way, I really hope we get to see more villain focused episodes. The comedic moments were pretty funny and I loved the episode overall. I'm really looking forward to what's in store for this season.  

Edited May 18, 2019 by Dynamo Pad

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,543]

That awkward moment when an episode about the villains learning teamwork is better and more engaging than an episode where the heroes learn about teamwork... *Cough* Non-Compete Clause *Cough*

[Props Valroa 26,043]

One of the best episodes I ever watched! I love these characters, for a second it looked like they were going to reform on their own. I loved it, so much.

[DonMaguz 1,023]

Second great episode in a row (and of the season).

Cozy Glow steals the show, we already know that she's really in charge.

Chrysalis was great too, I mean, she could have gotten to the cave on her own without many issues. Loved her way to eat some love.

Tirek was definitely not bad, I like how he just built himself a chair and relaxed to wait for the others.

Well, treason is in motion and friendship is blooming. This may be the most anticipated plot, but the delivery works wonders.

Edited May 18, 2019 by DonMaguz
Forgot how to grammar.

[Rushing cash 824]

4 minutes ago, CloudMistDragon said:

The most unpleasant surprise to me was no mention of Sombra. You'd think he'd be name-dropped here once with all the unexpected mentions this season, but I guess they're just really good at this game they're playing with his fans. 

You have misheard. It was "crush our enemies to dust". 

Agreed, and dust makes more sense, with her accent it sounded to me the same, and her crazy face a moment later was unsetelling. 

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,152]

2 hours ago, RyanMahaffe said:

Sometimes a villain just needs to stay who they are, "development" in the way Siege did completely ruined Sombra for me. 
We got development of his personality in TBOE and I adored what they did with him and happy they chose to off him instead of going the reformation route like the other villains.

To be fair I get where he's coming from. We've had an image of how Sombra was personality wise and held onto that for quite a few years; basically almost since the season 3 premiere itself with the FIENDship and Siege comics going further to establish that. Admittedly I was taken aback when the S9 trailers aired with Sombra, but I've accepted it as, in my mind, his overall personality judging from the show itself was largely a blank slate based on a form that was, at best, a smokey apparition or lich. Yeah, he laughed in the heroes face quite a bit in the S9, but he kinda had them where he wanted them until Discord gave his speech.

So yeah; personal preference pretty much. :p

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

This was fantastic! One thing that writers can take advantage of an all-villain dynamic is how amoral they can be. Chrysalis, Cozy, and Tirek deliciously show no morals or remorse for their actions. Writing evil cartoon characters can be a whole lotta fun, especially when their personalities vary and are dynamic. Chrysalis is bitter and lustful. Tirek is a brute. Cozy is a sweet and sour manipulator. They all have one thing in common: beat the Mane 8! Grogar, only shown briefly, is the calm force of the four, as he recently discovered his bell and can’t retrieve it alone.

This was a great test by him. Make them cooperate so they can return it to him. So here, you saw they tried to do alone.

1. Cozy tried to butter up Rusty Bucket, who kept a Friendship Journal copy *eye-twitch* and used a lesson that calls back to Bats! (how real friends won’t force others to do something they shouldn’t). When she tried to ignore him, she got stuck in a snowball and rolled back to Tirek.
2. Chryssie tried to turn into various creatures to make her way to Mount Everhoof, only to be stopped by fierce gusts that nearly injured her.
3. Knowing he can’t do it alone, Tirek sat back, waited, and let them fail. XD

The comedy’s really great, both in their struggle and eventual merge into their alliance. Their campfire scene provided Vogel ample time to bond while remaining villains. As a proud Fame & Misfortune hater, my favorite comedic moment was Chryssie triggering an avalanche onto Rusty’s house; hopefully all the snow ruined his journal copy.

Another Way to Be Bad is the best song of the season so far! Thanks to their villainy, they can cross all the lines and exaggerate them to really show it to great extent. Their dynamic crossed between Cozy’s manipulation, Chryssie and Tirek agreeing to team up, and (despite strong disagreement) temporarily bonding to want to crush Twilight and others, only to butt heads again. Great foreshadowing of their eventual alliance, too.

After what happened here (and what they almost learned), it won’t surprise me one bit to see them all reform at the very end. How? I don’t know. That said, Grogar not knowing that they hid his bell with that orb (albeit not all that all-knowing) raises a question or two, but the fact that he doesn’t trust them as much as they don’t trust him could foreshadow what’s to come.

Given its uniqueness, this is also perhaps the first moral-less episode of the series. When they were about to bond through the Magic of Friendship, they were about to recite their lesson, only to hilariously snap out of it.

In all, great work by Vogel. Still hold Mean 6 higher, but this works really well.

[Will Guide 21,325]

21 minutes ago, TheAnimationFanatic said:

That awkward moment when an episode about the villains learning teamwork is better and more engaging than an episode where the heroes learn about teamwork... *Cough* Non-Compete Clause *Cough*

You're never going to live that one down, aren't ya? 

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,543]

1 minute ago, Will Guide said:

You're never going to live that one down, aren't ya? 

Given how I consider it to be the third worst episode in the series, No. I'm not going to let them live it down.

[Rushing cash 824]

You can take this scene so much out of context, its hilarious!

[Will Guide 21,325]

24 minutes ago, TheAnimationFanatic said:

Given how I consider it to be the third worst episode in the series, No. I'm not going to let them live it down.

What's the 2nd and 1st?

17 minutes ago, Rushing cash said:

You can take this scene so much out of context, its hilarious!

OMG, Loyal is going to have a bit of a fit when he sees that image.

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,543]

Just now, Will Guide said:

What's the 2nd and 1st?

My second worst is "Newbie Dash", and my all-time least favorite episode of the show is "Spike at Your Service".

[Thrond 3,257]

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

 

 

It's nothing out of the ordinary for villains to be main or secondary characters that can carry whole episodes. A fresh perspective was always the go-to argument whenever one of us dastardly haters complained about Starlight and the bloating cast of characters that began to star in Maneless episodes. Little did they know that the fresh perspective was also our argument. Villains have now demonstrated what this actually looks like when executed wholeheartedly. All of Starfoals should now bow before the might of my past big brain arguments!

 

It’s not out of the ordinary at all. I’m just noting that this show has a large cast. Kinda stating the obvious, I guess.