What does the Brony phrase "Love & Tolerate" mean to you?

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Well. That escalated a tad too quickly, don't you think?

 

The way you're phrasing things seems incredibly condescending and out of line with the whole "Love & Tolerate" motto. People need to learn to let their guard down and stop being so awfully defensive. If SunBurn has a negative view on the term, then surely he/she might've had a bad experience that's led to that conclusion? Also, the Alexander Dumas quote reeks of thinly veiled ad hominem rather than anything genuine. I mean, c'mon, darkened soul? Might as well have tossed a shriveled black heart as cold as ice or two in there while at it.

 

“I simply want to live; to cause no evil to anyone but myself.”

― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

 

But, to get back to the topic.. "Love and tolerate" is just another phrase to me, as "Live and let live" was before it. I prefer to see people live up to their ideals, not monologue them to me. Words, in my personal experience, have rarely been more than just that.

 

 

You are absolutely right. The quote WAS meant to prove a point, and yes I am often critical of SunBurn's stances but condescending was the furthest from my intention.

 

I have edited my post to remove such dismissal that's at odds with the point I made in my post. I apologize and thank you for pointing out my unintentional hypocrisy.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Troblems
Removed hidden quote

[NotoriousSMALL 1,984]

Nothing but lies and is just a pretentious line nerds use against "trolls" in an attempt to look "mature", and then they turn around and freak out about "stupid soccer moms ruining derpy!!!!"

ugh

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,673]

I am astounded (and disappointed) at the number who see this creed as empty. We're bronies, for God's sake! When I joined this fandom back in season one it was because there was a culture of positivity, compassion, and indeed tolerance. The ONLY time I've ever not seen this, is when negative bronies SAY it's not there! Like some of you are paranoid that some things really can be just that good so you have to create negativity.   That phrase to me, is one I have seen exercised by the fandom every time I see a brony in real life. I've seen people overcome racial prejudice and save people from suicide because of the fandom's creed of "love and tolerate."   What does it mean to me? It's the motto of this fandom and I have seen too much evidence to support it to convince me otherwise. 

Your little rant right here can be used as evidence to argue that when the rubber hits the road, it just falls apart at the seams.

 

It's easy to "love and tolerate" from inside a hugbox but as soon as bronies find themselves facing scenarios and dilemmas that can really test a person's patience and integrity, they fail just about every time.

 

Pulling people from suicide, while undoubtedly noble, is a situation that's black and white, cut and dry. It works because it is a simple situation for simple minds to understand. But what about far more complicated situations? What happens when you have a friend, perhaps a close friend who's being tormented by another person? Most people's reactions there would be to take to his/her side but the opposing side may appear to be exactly the same. How so? Because people can and will lie not just to validate their putrid emotions towards another person but to also gain support and turn people against their opponent. I tried playing fair, I tried being honest but I lost. Now, because history is written by the winners, the good guys always win in the end so guess who that makes the villain. It turns out I was not alone in this either. During my years since becoming active on MLP Forums I've heard stories from others -- both friends and strangers alike -- experiencing the same tragedy.

 

It taught me a very valuable lesson about what kind of people are out there. Communities are like jungles and there are predators. They will exploit your kindness and gullibility for their own selfish ends and if they know how to BS people around them, they know how to BS themselves into thinking that they're always right.

 

But what really crushed it to fine Sahara Desert sand for me was when I talked to someone I had considered a long-time friend who avidly believed in the Love and Tolerance principle. In my dark moment when I went to him for light, he threw me under the bus and abandoned me. What impression do you think that will leave on a person?

 

I have recovered from it to some extent and even since, I still wanted to believe but over time it became clear that bronies simply lack the discipline and resourcefulness to follow through with this self-gratifying delusion. Hence why Love and Tolerance is to me...

A grim reminder of what a fool I've been for believing that bronies are anything more than mere consumers (and the occasional creators) of content. A phrase that stands for broken promises and commitments that never see the light of day.

 

I used to be a believer just like you, but then I took reality to the face.

Edited July 22, 2015 by SunBurn

[Guest]

Nothing but lies and is just a pretentious line nerds use against "trolls" in an attempt to look "mature", and then they turn around and freak out about "stupid soccer moms ruining derpy!!!!"

ugh

 

lol wise words from my man b

 

Seriously though, "love and tolerate" is a utopian phrase at best, since it is pretty much impossible for a fandom that is based around so many different individuals to actually follow it.

 

Sad but true.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Guest

[Steel Accord 6,660]

 

 

I used to be a believer just like you, but then I took reality to the face.

 

As if to say I don't live in the same reality as you do?

 

There was a time when I thought I had found my true love. She was beautiful, interested in me, a fellow creator, a pegasister, a fellow WoW player. We both had so much in common and we talked about being more than friends. She seemed excited about such a prospect. She introduced me to her two friends and we also got along well. Everything seemed to be going well until I asked something of her. Something simple and not troublesome. Just a picture of her with my name written on it.

 

She was never even real. My other apparent friends completely made her up. I had been catfished. My beloved nothing but a phantom. My two new friends betrayed me for nothing more than their amusement.

 

You know what I did? After this moment that was practically constructed to shatter the romantic within me? I . . . forgave them. Why? Because of the experience this fandom had taught me in "Love and Tolerance." Love means compassion and part of tolerance is forgiveness. 

 

I have observed this creed, it IS real. Even when I wanted to be angry and hateful, I surprised myself. It wasn't my "lack of discipline and resourcefulness" that spoke my words. Those were telling me to yell and curse them to Hell, but something higher, something better had taught me that such would accomplish nothing but hurting both them and me.

 

I live in your reality, I am a brony, and I love and tolerate.

[Unr3alGamer 230]

I definitely believe in that quote as something to live by in terms of how you treat people, but with the way it's been used in the brony fandom, it's more or less the "I'm going to phase out of this argument" term they use. 

 

 

She was never even real. My other apparent friends completely made her up. I had been catfished.

 

I know this isn't any of my business, but if you don't mind me asking, was that a relationship over the internet? 

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,673]

There was a time when I thought I had found my true love. She was beautiful, interested in me, a fellow creator, a pegasister, a fellow WoW player. We both had so much in common and we talked about being more than friends. She seemed excited about such a prospect. She introduced me to her two friends and we also got along well. Everything seemed to be going well until I asked something of her. Something simple and not troublesome. Just a picture of her with my name written on it. 

She was never even real. My other apparent friends completely made her up. I had been catfished. My beloved nothing but a phantom. My two new friends betrayed me for nothing more than their amusement.

It's one thing if this was perpetrated by non-bronies. It's something else entirely if this was perpetrated by fellow bronies and that's the point I've been trying to make. If it's non-bronies, there's isn't even a sliver of a chance -- not a pale glimmer -- that they would be following that principle themselves. If we're talking about bronies then it shows how little bronies can care for the mantra. You know what makes my brush with betrayal so damning? It's that it was done BY a brony who PROUDLY "loved and tolerated." How can one believe in anything with such hypocrites around? Why don't you enter in the google search bar:

"love and tolerance" hypocrisy

Do include the parentheses.

Now then...

 

I have edited my post to remove such dismissal that's at odds with the point I made in my post. I apologize and thank you for pointing out my unintentional hypocrisy.

 

While it was good that you removed whatever it was, again, it shows how the mantra falls apart when placed under pressure and here you are acknowledging that it happened. You may have picked up on it and took corrective action but plenty of others don't. Those who've seen seen and felt this hypocrisy can immediately relate.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

It's one thing if this was perpetrated by non-bronies. It's something else entirely if this was perpetrated by fellow bronies and that's the point I've been trying to make. If it's non-bronies, there's isn't even a sliver of a chance -- not a pale glimmer -- that they would be following that principle themselves. If we're talking about bronies then it shows how little bronies can care for the mantra.

 

They weren't bronies, and they apologized profusely. So even if "love and tolerance" wasn't specifically the mantra they followed, they had enough decency within them to know that they had wronged me. And I make no small measure that they deeply scarred me. You know what though? I didn't allow that pain to make me hate them, or turn my back on the core of my beliefs. "People are good."

 

 

 

How can one believe in anything with such hypocrites around? Why don't you enter in the google search bar: Quote "love and tolerance" hypocrisy Do include the parentheses. Now then...

 

 

Because my experience tells me they are outnumbered. Online, and overwhelmingly in real life with real bronies.

 

I did the search,

 

-love and tolerance meme

 

-love and tolerance shirt 

 

-love and tolerance resource pack

 

-love and tolerance coconut (?)

 

and THEN

 

-love and tolerance is bullshit

 

 

 

While it was good that you removed whatever it was, again, it shows how the mantra falls apart when placed under pressure and here you are acknowledging that it happened. You may have picked up on it and took corrective action but plenty of others don't. Those who've seen seen and felt this hypocrisy can immediately relate.

 

It was a Count of Monte Cristo quote. (Hardly a slamming rant.) I meant it to illustrate the folly of cynicism in general but somepony pointed out the wording could sound like a personal attack rather than a critique of stance. Hence my swift correction. The "hypocrisy" was not intentional on my part because I observe "love and tolerate" across all cultures and treat each person as a case by case basis. Of course, from a personal perspective, hypocrisy can sometimes slip by but that's for the same reason you can't see the back of your own head. You need someone else to fact check you sometimes and I'm glad I have other bronies to do that for me. (And as you can see, one did.)

Edited July 22, 2015 by Steel Accord

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,673]

Because my experience tells me they are outnumbered. Online, and overwhelmingly in real life with real bronies.   I did the search,

Once again, my laziness comes back to bite me. 

 

What you can't deny though, is how people are getting quite disillusioned with it. This very thread has fair amounts of anecdotes and even by your very own admission...

 

 

I am astounded (and disappointed) at the number who see this creed as empty.

Who knows how the reception's going to continue here further ahead in time.

 

There are plenty of others that have been with us but have had it. Some of them even include friends I've made here and not just one. The fact is that those who are truly fed up are more likely to avoid communities like these and relinquish the brony label altogether so there is a built-in bias for people on the forums to have more sunshine and rainbows attitudes towards this discussion for that very reason. Yet as we're seeing right now in this very thread of all places, opinions are divided. Even with a built-in positive bias we're seeing quite a bit of negativity. We don't even know how many (formerly active) members of this place have disappeared for this very reason.

 

What about the cons and bronies IRL? It's a very filtered lot -- even more so than here. Those who are disillusioned will either avoid the cons altogether or stay at the sidelines, just blending in, not interacting with other bronies and only stick to friends at most for the more social concerns. Social pressures present IRL and not online also pressure people not to be vocal and controversial like we're doing here. Again you have that built-in positive bias but with it is much stronger, much more powerful than on the internet. All these factors considered, cons are very likely to end up being hugboxes. Do note that I say "likely" which means I'm talking about the odds. Surely there are brony convention horror stories to be heard but I'm sure you'd be more than eager to argue that those are vastly outnumbered which will only add more weight to the argument that bronies encountered IRL and out in the open are a very filtrated part of the fandom behaving in a more filtrated fashion. I'm pretty sure should I ever go to a convention (which is extremely unlikely) I wouldn't really consider interacting with other bronies unless I'm already friends with them and trust them. 

 

Alright, back to former bronies with unpleasant experiences. I could link to people's journals and blog posts detailing their experiences but the vulgarity they contain makes me uncertain I would get away with it... Oh man, the venom they express...

 

But this other source is not only clean, the object of it is... quite interesting. It's an old Tumblr blog by the name of Brony Ethics that's collecting digital dust. What's interesting is that the blog itself has a positive stance. The blog description reads:

 

 

A blog about ethics, virtues, and etiquette as they apply to any person (brony or not) who just wants to improve this world we live in.

 

Snippets from the top blog post:

 

 

EqG has been yet another divisive drama-storm in the fandom, with people arguing on all sides. Stuff like this has happened before. (Remember the Derpy fiasco?) [For the full context, please see the page]

 

When it comes to things like this, it’s basically people getting upset for you taking a side that they didn’t. The topic in particular doesn’t really matter as this same pattern repeats itself over and over again across all people in any situation where a side can be taken. When you say some bronies are quick to get defensive, it really can be said that a lot of people are quick to get defensive.

 

...

 

Unfortunately, this is not exclusive to bronies, nor did this originate with this particular fandom. This is just a trait of mankind in any social context. Some people have become aware of this behavior and have learned to push past it. Some people, for as intelligent as they may seem, let their instincts and emotions get the better of them  and allow themselves to go into fight-or-flight mode with anyone who isn’t part of their “tribe”.

 

...

 

Once you are aware of this instinctual tendency, you can recognize it and call it out. Perhaps you can all grow together and learn to respect each other even when you don’t agree on every little thing. If they can’t, then perhaps it’s best to surround yourself with more mature people instead.

 

On that last paragraph, some people have chosen to find these "more mature people" away from the likes of us.

And to think that was a very polite and positive perspective on things...

 

Oh and what about that four-letter-word that gets bronies lunging at each other's throats? I mean come on, even discussing the topic had been banned on this very site because bronies of this community were ripping each other to shreds over it. Now it stands as a tightly-controlled and quarantined thread in the Debate Pit. Love and tolerance. Sure.

 

We are a dysfunctional bunch. People will have differing opinions on how dysfunctional and their experience can range from smiles and happy dreams to the most toxic of miasmic bile. 

 

Let's just stop kidding not just ourselves but also everyone and anyone looking to become a part of us.

Edited July 22, 2015 by SunBurn

[SkullcandyPegasus 604]

I interpret it as "Love me or I summon Cthulhu" ... It means what it means =P (no weird Cthulhu interpretations kay?)

[Steel Accord 6,660]

 

 

Once again, my laziness comes back to bite me.    What you can't deny though, is how people are getting quite disillusioned with it. This very thread has fair amounts of anecdotes and even by your very own admission...     Steel Accord, on 21 Jul 2015 - 8:35 PM, said: I am astounded (and disappointed) at the number who see this creed as empty. Who knows how the reception's going to continue here further ahead in time.   There are plenty of others that have been with us but have had it. Some of them even include friends I've made here and not just one. The fact is that those who are truly fed up are more likely to avoid communities like these and relinquish the brony label altogether so there is a built-in bias for people on the forums to have more sunshine and rainbows attitudes towards this discussion for that very reason. Yet as we're seeing right now in this very thread of all places, opinions are divided. Even with a built-in positive bias we're seeing quite a bit of negativity. We don't even know how many (formerly active) members of this place have disappeared for this very reason.

 

Their choice. It saddens me but I certainly don't hold it as marks against their character.

 

 

 

What about the cons and bronies IRL? It's a very filtered lot -- even more so than here. Those who are disillusioned will either avoid the cons altogether or stay at the sidelines, just blending in, not interacting with other bronies and only stick to friends at most for the more social concerns. Social pressures present IRL and not online also pressure people not to be vocal and controversial like we're doing here. Again you have that built-in positive bias but with it is much stronger, much more powerful than on the internet. All these factors considered, cons are very likely to end up being hugboxes. Do note that I say "likely" which means I'm talking about the odds. Surely there are brony convention horror stories to be heard but I'm sure you'd be more than eager to argue that those are vastly outnumbered which will only add more weight to the argument that bronies encountered IRL and out in the open are a very filtrated part of the fandom behaving in a more filtrated fashion. I'm pretty sure should I ever go to a convention (which is extremely unlikely) I wouldn't really consider interacting with other bronies unless I'm already friends with them and trust them. 

 

 

The very fact that such a high attendance rate of people had never been to a con or even considered it, myself included, shows how different and welcoming the atmosphere of brony conventions and meetups are.

 

John DeLancie in a recent interview even said that brony conventions have a completely different feel to them, that's more warm and relaxed. 

 

At my first bronycon, I was at a panel and it was just a "confessions" group. People would just come up and say something about their experience in life and how the fandom might have changed it. A man with severe social disabilities walked out with three new friends that lived in his area.

 

 

 

Alright, back to former bronies with unpleasant experiences. I could link to people's journals and blog posts detailing their experiences but the vulgarity they contain makes me uncertain I would get away with it... Oh man, the venom they express...  

 

Just as much I could share in profanity free and uplifting blog posts about how people's lives have been changed in near miraculous ways. I would include myself there if I wrote a blog.

 

 

 

But this other source is not only clean, the object of it is... quite interesting. It's an old Tumblr blog by the name of Brony Ethics that's collecting digital dust. What's interesting is that the blog itself has a positive stance. The blog description reads:

 

This guy is speaking my language.

 

Of course our fandom isn't free of critique. The thing is, complete dismissal, which is what I was commenting upon, is not critique. That blog post is constructive criticism and I think that has some legitimate points, albeit some outdated ones that I actually am proud to say have been resolved mostly at least with the specific situations they address.

 

I'm not calling for relentless positivity, just that we have a little faith in ourselves and if we do think there's a problem, let's do what many other fandoms don't and just talk calmly about it.

 

 

 

Oh and what about that four-letter-word that gets bronies lunging at each other's throats? I mean come on, even discussing the topic had been banned on this very site because bronies of this community were ripping each other to shreds over it. Now it stands as a tightly-controlled and quarantined thread in the Debate Pit. Love and tolerance. Sure.

 

What clop? Yeah it happens. I don't see how that is relevant to the topic although I don't appreciate the apparent sarcasm if I'm reading it right.

 

The topic of sex provokes strong emotional reactions in people, it embodies both the most noble and romantic, but also the most primal and depraved of us as humans. Lapse of love and tolerance in the face of perceived hostility doesn't mean it doesn't exist. No one can embody their ethos, especially such high minded ones, completely without fault.

 

I try to be sincere. That would be my virtue, my element of harmony, my core, my center. Do I behave disingenuously oftentimes offline? Oh yeah! But I still strive to act with sincerity and make amends for when I fail in that.

 

 

 

Let's just stop kidding not just ourselves but also everyone and anyone looking to become a part of us.

 

Completely agreed . . . .

 

"Join the heard! We're a mixed bunch all right. Not perfect and we sure have our scraps and our drama, but one thing is for certain, no matter our differences, we're all bronies. We love My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, a positive and uplifting family cartoon. Watch it and don't like it? That's cool, it's not for everyone. Watch it and love it? Welcome! You'll be all but certain to make friends . . . just be prepared for some head butting." 

[KillerKingBakudan 702]

It's bullshit. I knew that even before I got into MLP. There's too much garbage in the world for love and tolerance to take precedence.

The bronies just took those words and made it into a punchline.

[The Nth Doctor 663]

Yeah, we're quite the hypocrites sometimes

 

"You don't support my pairing? Shunnnnn!"

 

And then there's the near-total unanimous hatred for Flash Sentry...

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,673]

 

 

Lapse of love and tolerance in the face of perceived hostility doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

That's not the point I've been trying to make. What I've been trying to say all this time is that it crumbles to dust under pressure. It thrives under hugbox conditions but erodes in the face of perceived hostility -- using your own words. That is to say that these "lapses" happen pretty much as soon as pressure is applied. It's the reason why it's easy to see it work with saving people from suicide because of it being a black and white, cut and dry issue as opposed to a much more complicated inter-personal or collective feud with each side fighting to push a narrative to legitimize their side and paint the opposition as being wrong. Even clop, for reasons you brought up, puts pressure on people which causes the love and tolerance thing to just crumble to dust and be blown off to the wind. Taking its place is defensiveness and as the blog previously linked has described, defensiveness can take on the form of aggression, self-righteousness or smugness. I hope it's finally becoming clear what I'm trying to say.

 

Love and tolerance can thrive under hugbox conditions but it falters greatly if not catastrophically under pressure. 

[Steel Accord 6,660]

 

That's not the point I've been trying to make. What I've been trying to say all this time is that it crumbles to dust under pressure. It thrives under hugbox conditions but erodes in the face of perceived hostility -- using your own words. That is to say that these "lapses" happen pretty much as soon as pressure is applied. It's the reason why it's easy to see it work with saving people from suicide because of it being a black and white, cut and dry issue as opposed to a much more complicated inter-personal or collective feud with each side fighting to push a narrative to legitimize their side and paint the opposition as being wrong. Even clop, for reasons you brought up, puts pressure on people which causes the love and tolerance thing to just crumble to dust and be blown off to the wind. Taking its place is defensiveness and as the blog previously linked has described, defensiveness can take on the form of aggression, self-righteousness or smugness. I hope it's finally becoming clear what I'm trying to say.

 

Love and tolerance can thrive under hugbox conditions but it falters greatly if not catastrophically under pressure. 

 

 

It is becoming clear, but I still don't agree. Only because you seem to hold "love and tolerance" in an extreme where people NEVER fault. I told you about a complex personal situation in which love and tolerance pulled me through and actually prevented me from crumbling when under immense emotional pressure.

 

Not to mention, what about when people have indeed abandoned prejudices that they had before joining this fandom? Certainly a complex situation in regards to how and where one was raised, societal pressure, ideals, etc. Yet people, myself included and half ashamed half proud to say, indeed harbored some latent homophobic feelings before joining the fandom and just living life. Again, love and tolerance.

 

My opinions on the show have been contested, pretty heatedly even. (Especially in regards to my views on Celestia.) Never was I called a nasty name or considered lesser for holding my opinion, and I extended the same to my erstwhile opponent.

 

In regards to other topics, love and tolerance has actually made me a more open minded and willing to accept viewpoints I would have found been infuriated by before. I still have my limits but I'm now more willing to hear the person out.

 

(Why do you think I PMed you with "clearing the air?" It was my attempt to live by this creed. Trying to understand you so that I could better accept your point of view even if I disagree with it.)

Edited July 22, 2015 by Steel Accord

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,673]

It is becoming clear, but I still don't agree. Only because you seem to hold "love and tolerance" in an extreme where people NEVER fault.

Correction: it's that it faults more than what has been projected. It's like moving into a country where you believed that power outages are few and far between only to find out that they happen at least once every month, lasting for tens of hours at a time. Even highly reliable grids aren't faultless but at the very least they meet people's expectations. In many first world countries, the electricity grid is highly reliable, going out only a handful of times every year and lasting up to a few hours at most if not minutes even. Meanwhile in other countries, people find it normal for the power to go out on a relatively regular basis. It's all about expectations matching reality. 

 

Who knows, maybe it's because I joined the fandom back in September of 2011 when the show was the most inspiring thing that happened to me in years at a time I was being exposed to information that was giving me hope that I haven't experience in years right when there were articles and documentaries coming about talking about just how awesome the fandom is and lah dee dah.

 

Anyway, this is why I stress not kidding ourselves and especially not potentially would-be bronies. We need to be honest with ourselves and in doing so being honest to everyone else. Misleading people to believe that we are more than we actually are to get them to be one of us and increase our numbers is dishonest and even cult-like.

 

 

Not to mention, what about when people have indeed abandoned prejudices that they had before joining this fandom? Certainly a complex situation in regards to how and where one was raised, societal pressure, ideals, etc. Yet people, myself included and half ashamed half proud to say, indeed harbored some latent homophobic feelings before joining the fandom and just living life. Again, love and tolerance.   My opinions on the show have been contested, pretty heatedly even. (Especially in regards to my views on Celestia.) Never was I called a nasty name or considered lesser for holding my opinion, and I extended the same to my erstwhile opponent.   In regards to other topics, love and tolerance has actually made me a more open minded and willing to accept viewpoints I would have found been infuriated by before. I still have my limits but I'm now more willing to hear the person out.

And what it comes down to is what is it that breaks first: Love and tolerance or whatever's putting pressure on it?

That threshold turned out to be much lower than I thought it would be for a lot of bronies. I expected much better.

 

 

 

(Why do you think I PMed you with "clearing the air?" It was my attempt to live by this creed. Trying to understand you so that I could better accept your point of view even if I disagree with it.)

PM is abbreviated "Private Message" for a reason...

Edited July 22, 2015 by SunBurn

[Blake of Gilead 140]

It means respect others and to treat them fairly.

 

And to all of those bronies (and pegasisters) who have given up on this core value of the show:

 

"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Correction: it's that it faults more than what has been projected. It's like moving into a country where you believed that power outages are few and far between only to find out that they happen at least once every month, lasting for tens of hours at a time. Even highly reliable grids aren't faultless but at the very least they meet people's expectations. In many first world countries, the electricity grid is highly reliable, going out only a handful of times every year and lasting up to a few hours at most if not minutes even. Meanwhile in other countries, people find it normal for the power to go out on a relatively regular basis. It's all about expectations matching reality. 

 

Who knows, maybe it's because I joined the fandom back in September of 2011 when the show was the most inspiring thing that happened to me in years at a time I was being exposed to information that was giving me hope that I haven't experience in years right when there were articles and documentaries coming about talking about just how awesome the fandom is and lah dee dah.

 

Anyway, this is why I stress not kidding ourselves and especially not potentially would-be bronies. We need to be honest with ourselves and in doing so being honest to everyone else. Misleading people to believe that we are more than we actually are to get them to be one of us and increase our numbers is dishonest and even cult-like.

 

 

Hell I joined the fandom a year earlier and it was that very inspiration that changed my life. Years later my expectations have not outstripped my experience. Sure I do wish there was far less cynicism but you know what? Even with that, this fandom is far more idealistic than any other I've seen.

 

So yes, I won't kid myself, I tell what I've experienced and I've gotten others to join the herd. They certainly don't seem to be regretting it.

It means respect others and to treat them fairly.

 

And to all of those bronies (and pegasisters) who have given up on this core value of the show:

 

"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."

 

Completely agreed, I'm sure a reminder of such is redundant for you but if anypony responds negatively to your post, take it with a grain of salt. I'm with you. 

Edited July 22, 2015 by Steel Accord

[Blake of Gilead 140]

 

 

Completely agreed, I'm sure a reminder of such is redundant for you but if anypony responds negatively to your post, take it with a grain of salt. I'm with you. 

 

Thanks! I'm glad to see someone who doesn't use the phrase hypocritically or cynically. 

[Steel Accord 6,660]

 

 

And what it comes down to is what is it that breaks first: Love and tolerance or whatever's putting pressure on it? That threshold turned out to be much lower than I thought it would be for a lot of bronies. I expected much better.

 

Fair enough, I expect something of this fandom to. This very thread, I'm a disappointed, but it's not all one and done. Different situations, different groups, different individuals. Among them, my experience has shown more bronies standing up for love and tolerance than buckling. Not always, but more than they have failed. 

 

So the difference between where we stand really does seem to boil down to just time and place.

Thanks! I'm glad to see someone who doesn't use the phrase hypocritically or cynically. 

 

I'm not perfect, certainly nobody is. In this very thread I violated that principal before somepony wisely corrected me. I try though. I try hard to live up to that. As this fandom and show have made me a better person and given me a better life. There's something to all of this and I won't be convinced otherwise.

[Blake of Gilead 140]

 

 

I'm not perfect, certainly nobody is. In this very thread I violated that principal before somepony wisely corrected me. I try though. I try hard to live up to that. As this fandom and show have made me a better person and given me a better life. There's something to all of this and I won't be convinced otherwise.

 

Nobody's perfect, but if we all learn from our mistakes, the world can be a much better place. 

[catnet 9,357]

I'm not really a fan of the phrase (in particular, when it's used against someone) but I think the sentiment behind it is very important, and I'd love a world where more people could step away from pointless arguments to mellow out and appreciate it. Though the brony fandom is where I've met many of the kindest people in my life, I'd personally be okay if the fandom ditched the phrase... it feels like some (not all, or even most) people take the fact they're part of a group with that saying to mean that they don't need to change, so they can send the phrase to anti-bronies and anyone that disagrees with them about anything, and never wonder how it could apply to them when they're being intolerant. There must be a better way for peacefulness and understanding to be encouraged, instead of 'love and tolerate'.

 

If someone follows that saying religiously, though, and uses it for self-improvement rather than defense... I have a whole lot of respect for you. Even though I'm mellow by default, I find it difficult to tolerate some things... those people that can tolerate anything within reason are pretty inspirational to me.

[Discordian 6,015]

It's a bullshit dogma that people try to incorporate into their lives when they become bronies even if it's not inherently a part of who they are. It's also pushed on people within the fandom and always feels like a way to keep people from acting out.

 

</anarchist>

[Celli 4,338]

The thing is, I don't think it was ever supposed to be more than an ironic statement made on 4chan.

Furthermore, most people I see don't even follow the term. So, what's the point of using a basically useless term?

Also, I'm not going to unconditionally tolerate everyone. I'm not going to "love and tolerate" someone who blatantly insults me for what I enjoy. It's turning a blind eye to what they're doing.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

It's a bullshit dogma that people try to incorporate into their lives when they become bronies even if it's not inherently a part of who they are. It's also pushed on people within the fandom and always feels like a way to keep people from acting out.

 

</anarchist>

 

Ever the changing face between ally and opponent you are, my friend.  :okiedokielokie:

The thing is, I don't think it was ever supposed to be more than an ironic statement made on 4chan.

Furthermore, most people I see don't even follow the term. So, what's the point of using a basically useless term?

Also, I'm not going to unconditionally tolerate everyone. I'm not going to "love and tolerate" someone who blatantly insults me for what I enjoy. It's turning a blind eye to what they're doing.

 

That's not the same thing as living by "love and tolerate." To love is to love unconditionally and to see good even in those that would mean you harm, to tolerate isn't to allow harm upon yourself but rather to turn the other cheek.