S02:E25+E26 - A Canterlot Wedding

[Ember Scales 43]

  On 2014-10-03 at 8:15 PM, NioniosTheSilent said:

Eer no. They pulled something worse. Remember in those anime where the protagonist pulls of a previously unknown power/move just in the right moment to defeat the villain? Yea... Chrysalis in the comics was FAR better than the Canterlot wedding one could say. She was clearly out of league for Twilight to face. Yet Twilight who doesn't bear the same amount of power as Cadence and Shining Armor mustered at the wedding somehow managed to defeat her. By what? Punching harder than she did before? Why didn't she do it in the first place? What a joke...

You forget. We knew nothing of twilight's full potential. She turned her own parents into plants when she was a filly for heavens sake. It's possible she's even more powerful than chrysalis but isn't skilled enough to control her full power. The comet that passed overhead most likely allowed her to control her true power which was displayed earlier. She isn't the Element of Magic for nothing ya know.

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

  On 2014-10-04 at 3:07 AM, Ember Scales said:

You forget. We knew nothing of twilight's full potential. She turned her own parents into plants when she was a filly for heavens sake. It's possible she's even more powerful than chrysalis but isn't skilled enough to control her full power. The comet that passed overhead most likely allowed her to control her true power which was displayed earlier. She isn't the Element of Magic for nothing ya know.

I still call bs on that. She was supposed to have unleashed her strongest spell before her final one as she said herself.

 

In any case the two parters are waaaaay too Twilight-centric for me.

[Poetic Story 30]

I was singing "Love is in bloom" in my head on my way to my cousin's wedding last year to be honest. I loved the twist of the "Bride" in part one being a fake!

[GreyScholar 1,584]

  On 2014-10-03 at 7:02 PM, NioniosTheSilent said:

EVERYONE is tired of the Deus Ex Machina solutions EVERYONE!!!

Raises hoof

 

I'm not tired of it, mainly because I disagree.

 

  On 2014-09-12 at 5:58 PM, Noodles said:

I don't think Celestia did apologize to Twilight.

Sighs, you again Edited October 6, 2014 by EquestrianScholar

[Kek 26]

Oddly enough, this is my least favorite episode from the show. I didn't really care for the new characters, except for Queen Chrysalis who was rather interesting. The way the mane 6 (minus Twilight) and Princess Celestia acted also threw me off, and seemed both out of character and out of place. At the time when there were only two seasons, I definitely preferred the finale to the first one.

[Noodles 109]

 

 

  On 2014-10-06 at 5:26 AM, EquestrianScholar said:

Sighs, you again

?!? just stating my view that's all not shure and apology was necessary to begin with.

[Jeric 46,866]

 

There was no DeM in this episode. 

 

• The EoH were not recovered (which even if they were used they would not be DeM since we all expected them to be used) this was a masterful decision. 
• Chrysalis in Cadance form head bowed over Shining is imagery that becomes wonderfully juxtaposed nicely to the resolution. This gives the audience post viewing clarify with an earlier scene that the imagery was planed to coincide with the plot. This is a minor use of what we see done in films like The Usual Suspects. 
• The set up of the magical barrier was mentioned previously
• It's a wedding episode where they had 50% of a song dedicated to love in a show predicated on friendship. 
• There was an alternate obvious solution that was not attempted
• The purpose behind Deus Ex Machina is to provide an easy way out when trapped or lazy. Due to the nature of the symbolism added throughout, the 'love conquers all' ending was not DeM ...as it was neither the only solution ... and most definitely not the lazy solution. 

 

Most of the time the analysts and people on YouTube use a literary buzz word, they due so incorrectly. It is their own personal hamartia. More unfortunately, fans tend to treat them like they are an authority on the show. The buzz words spread, and I'm left rubbing my temples all the time. Please guys ... don't use DeM ... save my temples. 

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

 

 

  On 2014-10-10 at 2:56 PM, Jeric said:

There was no DeM in this episode. 

Yes there was. There shouldn't be a love-splosion to simply remove every changeling from there. They should have fought them and defeated them with tactics as they were perfectly capable of doing. 

I did somewhat of a "study" on the changelings.

This is what came out of it.

  Reveal hidden contents

Changeling Diet

Changelings are omnivorous but they require an increased source of minerals in order to fulfill their diet. Seeing as their scales grow and expand from birth they often crush rocks and pebbles with their muscular jaws and their pointy fangs. Seeing as they require such even during early stages of development (birth-gestation-egg) their homes are almost always located in such places and they are often seen sneaking near Rock Farms. They often pose as high bidders/investors taking part of the production with them and masking awfully well their idenitity and finacial activities.

Love-"Special Diet" Love is an allegory for life and how life is meaningless without love. Changelings feed upon the life-force of other creatures. This occurs because of a magical malady known as Lov-e-lipsis (Love+Elipsis aka Lack of Love, i will get to how they contracted it a bit later). A changeling running low on life-force starts losing sanity and is dangerously close to devolving into the Devourer state (More about that later). When a changeling is adequately fed the holes upon them and their growth will remain on low levels. A changeling fed on adequate life-force will experience a similar effect to that of a boost of adrenaline or drugs. Side effects of overfeeding upon love may include power-haze, clouded judgement, increased ambition and arrogance.

Changeling stages of Life
Birth
A Changeling spends on an average 9 months until it is born and its' coming to the world of equestria is a mix of gestation and egg-hatching.

Changelings like every other living creature require a mother and a father in order to come to life. The changeling couple are overly protective of their young. The baby spends 3 months inside the mother's belly until it is born. Following quote of my fanfic... 

To a common pony these would look like alien abomination, semi-transparent eggs filled with slime, inside which there is a creature attached to a tube flowed willing to kill or drain you as soon as it came out. The truth is that in this state the changelings are at their weakest. That is why past the guards and their caretakers, there is usually at least one parent overlooking each egg.
...
Alianna knows the justified pain she had experienced, and what she had been through before delivering her child. The baby cannot transform inside the womb. Attempting to transform to creatures of different size, weight or shape would, in most cases, kill  her and the baby. The mother had to spend almost three months deprived of her most powerful weapon and escape tool: her transformations and she had to spend double to triple the time taking shifts with her husband into taking care of it. Because although all eggs would eventually grow a stronger exterior, their starting state is very fragile.
...
There is a fleshy core at the bottom of the egg. It is round shaped with a darker core, and the changeling is connected with the umbilical cord to it. Among many of other changeling "eggs" he finds a suitable spot and starts digging, using his strong hooves. Gently and slowly he places the egg on the ground and pushes the dirt around it so it can stabilize. Some time after it touches the ground the core of the egg comes alive and "roots" start going into the soil. The "roots" will take water, micro minerals, trace elements and anything else the babies needed to build their scales and help them grow. From time to time the caretakers or the parents will inspect the integrity of the pod, and refresh the "love" energy to make sure the young do not die before birth. No changeling is born with holes, but it becomes less possible to keep it that way by each passing day.

Changeling growth/genetics
Alianna follows them as they keep talking about it. She knows that all changelings' lives are greatly effected by their unique "evolutions" . Being the caretaker of the newborn she is one of many changelings that were studying their species' genetics. There is one gene in particular that was rather "tricky", and still baffled many of generations who studied it. It was called "The Protean Gene" and it had three possible forms it could take. During a changeling's life it would adapt, change, depending on the situation a changeling was put in. Each position it took on the genetic code allowed the changeling to excel at different sectors: Strength, Dexterity, Magic. Added to that an unique characteristic was given to the changeling by it. Jonaleth's muscular structure was one, the reinforced scales of Mortain were another, her affinity with healing and there were countless others possibilities she could not even fathom. They had more in common with the ponies than they thought. They might not have been looking for "Cutie Marks" their whole lives, but they too had a part of their lives when they looked for their own path, their place in society, their special ability.

General Changeling Abilities
1)Magic Sensitivity/Enhanced Vision
Emotions are Magic... remember that for in our research it is going to be imperative. Emotions flow in the sky like energy. They are invisible in the naked eye and harvesting emotions is something that can bolster someone's magic immensely... if they know how to use it of course. Normally emotions can't be seen with the naked eye but changelings posses a special kind of skill that allows them to track magic found in ley lines. 

Great lines of power, known as ley lines, crisscross the lands.Ley lines exist all over Equestria, and are sources of deep and natural magic. Across the face of the world there flow lines of power - patterns of magical energy that carry vitality of the lands through them, like blood vessels in a creature. These lines of power are recognized subtly by skilled sorcerors yet changelings have a natural affinity in recognizing them. Most however, only really focus on those places where the lines converge and meet, seeking to tap the most power from them. Those who seek to understand and master runic power understand that the convergences are not the only important part of this power - the patterns formed by the lines themselves are important as well. There are lines of power that run across the land in a select few areas, but these are not the only lines - simply the most obvious. Inside of these thick and corded ropes of power, there are also tiny, web-thin lines that run between these great ley lines, connecting them in a vast net of pulsing, subtle power. Those with great magical power and ley walkers seek out these sites. A convergence of two or more lines of magical energy is called a "ley line nexus".

I used http://www.wowwiki.com/Ley_line and modified it a bit.
Positive Emotions

These emotions are bright and when a person is filled with them they shine like suns sharing the energy among them and the receiver of said emotions. Those emotions transfer themselves and amplify themselves when they are shared between more people. They have bright colors and give energy to others like the sun does.
Negative emotions

Negative emotions are like black holes. They are grey emotions and often colorness or dark in color and act like black holes dimmening the aura of those around you and drawing emotions from everyone surrounding you. Unlike positive emotions negative emotions draw energy from others to the one feeling those emotions but like positive emotions they inspire similar emotions to those around you.

Lov-e-lipsis and changeling emotions
Due to their race-specific heriditary malady the changelings image when viewing their emotions is like a mix of the above two... though their emotions may shine bright and positive there is always a small hole that sucks some of the emotions like a bottomless pit. The feeling itself of having your emotions drained from the inside can range to a mild inner butterfly to a tapeworm or appendicitis.

The description of Hasbro about the changelings says they are grotesque ponies... but still PONIES. Certainly it's not mentioned they are evil... therefore confirming my belief that they do not willingly feed upon love... or by choice... though it does give them strength. Now i believe that sometime during their history the changelings came in contact with Anti-Life entities such as demonic entities or dark magic and devolved into what they are now. They became parasites of emotions... and developed an isolationist society to avoid destroying the world due to their "curse". Thus the reason we haven't seen them much...

Another reason we haven't seen them a lot or their corpses in Canterlot is because i believe dead changelings continue to be afflicted by their disease... thus if dying in battle they would "rot" much quicker dissolving into pixie dust in the wind... When a changeling is about to die due to lack of feeding there are two results:Multiple organic failure and death dissolving into pixie dust... or...
Devolving and the Devourer
Some just could not take it... their primal instincts rose up, as they do to every creature in hunger, and logic was slowly torn from their minds. Inside this... "madness" there was nothing of the former changeling to save, and it was even worse when  this occurred near their own people. Because the change was not only mental... Their bodies changed too, they became unstable, much bigger but with extremely thick muscular structure and scales as hard as iron. In this state the remaining life-span of the changeling was short, and while absorbing "love" kept them alive longer their hunger could never be sated. "Devourers"... that is what they called them, from the way they ate their victims whole absorbing every bit of their essence. He and his friends had been forced to kill many changelings that ended this way, but those close to them sometimes could not. How can one strike one his own race, much more one of his own family?
http://assasinmonkey...turns-381243529
Devourers know no exception in their victims and are often kept a secret from the changelings themselves through their Queen and the highest ranking officials for they don't wish the changeling race to hate themselves.

2)Empathy and Mental Link
Changelins as i said can see emotions and magic. They posses magical empathy and are affected by those emotions/energies. Changelings posses a natural mental connection with their loved ones and families... the more skilled a changeling is in making such bonds and friendships the higher the rank it can achieve. I believe the crown is imperative to ruling the changelings... the crown is imbued with the magic of an old Queen. The changelings were living underground but ended up having to move due to earthquakes, volcanoes and such. The Queen who had the talent to speak to more changelings than anyone focused her magic and managed to contact all the changelings guiding them... the first Queen to achieve that. She died however not being able to handle the lot of it for such a long time... but her crown got imbued with her magic. Thus the next Queens or Kings had to actually prove by the standards of the crown that they could handle such a bond without losing their minds thus making sure that only the most capable of changelings rose the hierarchy. Making sure that only those who could guarantee the future of the changelings rose up to the challenge... no matter who they were... good or evil. This is mimicked in helmets of the generals and other items.

3)Singing and Music
As strange as it might seem all changelings can sing... be it rythmically or melodically. Music is a great part of their culture and as a consequence every changeling knows how to sing somehow or knows at least one instrument. This is not only because it helps bonding between the changelings but also because it is a form of feeding upon the emotions generated though not so effective. The reason it is not used exclusively is because it would require infinite amounts of inspiration and infinite amounts of singing and resources fact that would be ineffective.

Changeling expressions-and their explanation
Quoted from my facebook page. 
"While changelings are not religious instead of praising Celestia like the ponies do they praise the maker. They also use expressions like "What in Tartaurus?" or "Sweet mother of Mercy". There are also expressions like "You're as sweet as royal jelly." in matters of love, and more often than not calling someone "honey" indicates family ties or intimacy. A very popular expression is also "Blood is thicker than water". It means that though we value friendship we put our families above everything. Couples that achieve high levels of bonding will often perform a ritual at which they will cut their hooves and clench them together letting the blood mix. This way they prove their loyalty to each other and develop between them the connection that the Queen shares with all.

Indeed. You see... Tartaurus is the home of all evil... thus when something seems so despicable, so evil... we say "What in Tartaurus is THAT?". As i said... motherhood is something we value greatly so it's logical we use the second expression right? Besides family is the first group of people a changeling bonds with and talks through it's mind. Changelings also seem to have a great relation with bees. It seems bees see or "sense" for a better word a connection with us due to our common bond of a "hive mind". After studies we have observed that this is one of the reasons so many of them make their homes near ours. It's not rare to see some of our homes also being used by bees as houses. We have developed over the years an understanding of sorts... we don't hurt each other and in exchange they grant us some of their honey keeping our people fed. It is said that the Queens of each species contacts each other and talks, the Queen is also given certain amounts of "Royal Jelly" which is an empowering delicacy making the changelings feeding upon it stronger in every way. Because of it's sweetness in comparison to normal honey, and it's rarity it is the most appreciated commodity ever. they have become in times of need even defenders to our homes against monsters, other locusts, and sometimes even ponies or others. Thus we have come to value their lives greatly, this has gradually entered our lives as expressions like these."

I made a changeling national anthem here goes...

"We know ourselves by the voice...

The Voice that unites all
The Voice that fills the heart
Our Ears listen to the plight
The love for which we must fight

We know ourselves from the flame...

The flame that burns the fake skin
To the emerald spark we are akin
The flame that burns within we hold
The one, united, ancient, bold.

We know ourselves from the quest...

The quest to purge our taint
This journey we bravely take
To tame the savage soul
To release our form of old."

And there you have it... something i made in approximately half an hour you could say... with some breaks to read some online comics. A changeling anthem... I wanted to mention three things in it... first the "hive mind" or "Soul Union" as i call it... Second the transformations, Third the Purpose or at least what i think their purpose is. Do you think i got that right?

As for a potential backstory on Queen Chrysalis?

  Reveal hidden contents

Name:Queen Chrysalis

Species (Unicorn/ Pegasus/ Earth Pony/ Crystal Pony/ Changeling/ Griffin):Changeling

Approxiate Age (In human years):25

Gender:Female

Height (Feet and inches):1.85m I don't use feet or inches and are you saying pony form here?

Weight (in pounds):130 human form. Pony form... unknown

Eye color:Soft Sea Green

Mane color:Teal

Description of your pony form:She has black skin, a sharp pair of fangs, dark green eyes with vertical, dragon-like pupils and no visible cutie mark. Interestingly, her eyes have a double pupil: a vertical, dragon-like one within a normal round one.
She has a teal mane and tail, and also seems to have a greenish saddle, blue-green rib plate, and a small, black crown tipped with blue circles. All of her hooves are full of holes in them, yet she can stand firmly on the ground. Her limbs, along with her torso, are extremely skinny.

Occupation:Queen of the Changelings

Other distinctive features (if any):Her voice has a layered quality, as if two people were speaking in sync. That however occurs only when she has been highly empowered by magic.

Backstory (A little more about your character):The infamous Queen of the changelings. Born by Queen Amalthea and King Abectrozeus in one of the numerous changeling kingdoms Chrysalis soon witnessed the true face of changeling society. She grew together with a few other changeling nobles' fillies forging bonds with some of them. Amongst them she entrusted more the Changeling known as Cicada which became her metaphorical "sister". During that time many suitors appeared... all were repelled for their dishonest feelings and their power-hungry attitudes.

During one of the squabbles of the changeling kingdoms her father was assasinated. After interrogation the culprit confessed into being hired by one of the other kingdoms. Sealing her decision that day Chrysalis decided the destruction of all other kingdoms in order to get revenge and forge the united Changeling Empire. Together with her most trusted changelings she relentlessly hunted her opponents, killing those who resisted, and accepting the surrender of those that submitted.

During the aftermath three ancient changeling rulers showed up in spirit form. Queen Metis the cunning and wise, King Proteus the father of the changeling kin, and Nousios the blind and fair. They were the "Emotionless" ancient changeling rulers made judges of the actions of great impact their Kings and Queens did, they were called that way for they allowed no emotion to hamper their judgement. The three spirits congratulated her on the unification of their kin but warned her of the consequences should her grim and relentless behavior continue.

The unification of the empire brought prosperity but at a great toll of her own personality. The toll of having to kill so many was the turning point. Somewhere in the war Chrysalis crossed the indescernible thin red line between good and evil descending into the darkness. Despite that the Queen of the changelings bears an unending determination to serve her own kingdom, to preserve the unification she has achieved.

Thus the invasion upon Canterlot came to be. The failure and the cost of it shook the Dark Queen... but not enough as to change her ways. She realized however that it was in her best interests not to attack Equestria again. She refused to accept notions of friendship and common love bearing in mind higher forms of bonds like family. She considers herself beyond the common definition of good and evil. She is... determined. "Determination is the sword of darkness. Thunder forth Changelings!"
 

Cutie Mark:(N/A) Chrysalis learned long ago that her kin used to have cutie marks and was united. The reason for the fall is uncertain though it is sure it caused them to feed upon love and caused the split of the kingdom. She often wonders what her own cutie mark might be.

 

[GreyScholar 1,584]

  On 2014-10-10 at 2:30 PM, Noodles said:

?!? just stating my view that's all not shure and apology was necessary to begin with.

Hmm? I apologize, maybe I am confusing you with sone else. I thought I recognize your username and thought of a member who has a vendetta against the episode A Canterlot Wedding.

 

If this is the case, my mistake.

[TheJLeeTeam 914]

Alright, A Canterlot Wedding. I started watching this episode completely surprised because I have seen absolutely no clips, trailers, summaries, screenshots, etc. prior to watching this episode.

 

Anyway I thought Part 1 was average but Part 2 was fantastic. Part 1 had some unpleasant moments like everypony abandoning Twilight even though they knew there was threat and how Mi Amore Cadenza was acting like bratty teenage girl. My highlight for Part 1 was the song BBBFF. I thought it was really uplifting and one of the best songs of the whole show.

 

Part 2 was definitely better though. It had two of my favorite songs: This Day Aria and Love is in Bloom. The highlight was definitely after the conflict with the real wedding and it was really uplifting. I think they were trying to make Part 1 as bad as possible and save all the good stuff for Part 2. 

 

Yes it has problems but still a lot of effort went into this.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

  On 2014-10-10 at 4:14 PM, IridscentNionios said:

-snip-

Interesting headcanon

 

I also am one who disagrees on the love boom being a DeM, and I would be more inclined to call it a case of "Hoisted By His Own Petard" ad Queen Chrysalis was defeated by the power she claimed to grow strong from... cue irony.

 

That and this is a magical world, ever pony has witin themh this magic, both via thier cutiemark and racially. Magical beings, magical monstets, magical creatures, magical artifacts, a magical lake and a magical tree.

 

For me the Power o Friendship and the Power of Love actually being abl to defeat the villian is not cheap but reasonable.

[Noodles 109]

 

 

  On 2014-10-11 at 2:55 AM, EquestrianScholar said:

Hmm? I apologize, maybe I am confusing you with sone else. I thought I recognize your username and thought of a member who has a vendetta against the episode A Canterlot Wedding. If this is the case, my mistake.

 

I do not have a vendetta against the episode it had its flaws but was very fun to watch.

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

 

 

  On 2014-10-11 at 3:16 AM, EquestrianScholar said:

Interesting headcanon

Did you really read it all? May we move in a pm to discuss this?

 

  On 2014-10-11 at 3:16 AM, EquestrianScholar said:

would be more inclined to call it a case of "Hoisted By His Own Petard"

I don't understand this phrase. I AM GREEK DAMMIT!!! Not that you would have known((though i have told you)).

 

  On 2014-10-11 at 3:16 AM, EquestrianScholar said:

For me the Power o Friendship and the Power of Love actually being abl to defeat the villian is not cheap but reasonable.

I concur but i have ONE objection.

Why didn't they use it in the first place.

Another case this is demonstrated is how Nightmare Rarity is saved in the comics. I'll keep you spoiler free here and not tell you how it happened but... As Tommy Oliver said "Couldn't they have done it in the first place?". You do realize that if this happened the first time Chrysalis was revealed the next 10 minutes of the episode would have been rendered narratively POINTLESS?

So why did we have a filler? And why wasn't this done in the first place if we knew it would work?

The point is Cadence and Shining did a gamble. A gamble for which they didn't even know the results.

This was not planned, this was rough, this was rushed. ((the love-splosion)) In other words to me they just pulled a solution right off their flanks. 

Thus i deem it DeM. Is this not reasonable?

I mean it is never indicated that while feeding off of love you can be smitten by it for changelings. If anything you'd think this would make them immune to it. But no... it didn't.

You know what i would have done? Have Luna and Celestia buy time for Twilight to go to the elements, the changelings reaching the place faster, Twilight thinking of alternatives then realizing Cadence and Shining could combine their spells to expel all changelings, then have them do it. It would make perfect sense, allow the Princesses some moments of glory, and explain and fill a lot of plotholes. Like the fact that Luna... DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON? OH MY GOD WHERE WERE YOU? Lol sorry just nerdragin a bit.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

@@IridscentNionios,

We can speak in PM, though I am not sure when we can start. Perhaps later today after I reply in a couple of roleplaying. Though, a this point, I will be honest and say I skimmed the whole thing, that I haven't read it word for word.

 

Hoist by His Own Petard

"The villain's own weapon or malicious plan is the cause of his downfall and/or death. This could be something as big as a Mad Scientist who creates monsters and/or a Weapon of Mass Destruction getting killed by his own creation, or as small as a prankster accidentally setting off his own trap.

In media intended for young children, it is often a Death by Irony that releases the hero from the unpleasantness of actually killing their enemy; a more specific type of Self-Disposing Villain.

If the hero is not responsible for the death in any way, it can also be a Karmic Death.

A "petard" is an explosive device (basically a bucket full of gunpowder) intended to demolish gates and fortified walls; being too close to the detonating explosive could well toss the engineers who planted it into the air. Thus, this term literally means 'Blown into the air by one's own bomb' and was first coined by William Shakespeare in Hamlet."

 

In the case of Nightmare Rarity, the way they defeated her was merely an expansion of what Twilight did in the two part opening Return of Harmony to remind her friends who they are. It being a different sort of "defeat by friendship" as it was Rarity's friends coming together to remind her who she was with thier memories together and thus defeated the Nightmare forces controlling her.

 

Shining Armour had a duty, one that involved raising the shield that was supposed to keep out those seeking to hurt ponies in Canterlot. Yet he coulsn't, not by himself, because of being weakened by Chrysalis. Cadance, seeing this, offered her strength and her love to allow Shining to raise the shield. Yet this had the surprising effect of adding a supercharge Shining Armour's shield spell and blowing the changlings into the air and out of Canterlot.

 

Love, the very energy that the changlings feed on and a sentiment that Chrysalis mocked, was what lead to the defeat of those who wanted to invade Equestria. Defeat by irony indeed.

 

Lastly, many fans belief they have the answer to fixing an episode they don't like or was disappointed with. I myself did not like how the writers handled Discord's reform in Keep Calm and Flutter On. More I am of the belief that Discord was a Vetter character as a villain. Yet the problem is getting others to agree with your revision of the episode. I myself was fine with th episode, though I often wish that writers were allowed more tone in which to tell the stories they provide.

 

Perhaps fans would not complain of DeM if the writers could offer better explains and more time before reaching the story's conclusion.

 

But they weren't, as Hasbro tells them, not in these exact words, "we want to sell these toys so tell this story. Make it work in 44 minutes" (or only 22 minutes). It was marketed and advertised as a wedding so I assume the wedding was established as being essential to the plot b Hasbro.

 

Though I will offer, as to where Luna was, that she was asleep. The princess of the moon doea have the night shift, so it makes sense she'd be unavailable during the daytime.

 

  On 2014-10-11 at 12:12 PM, Noodles said:

I do not have a vendetta against the episode it had its flaws but was very fun to watch.

Hmm, where have I seen your username... have we spoken elsewhere? Edited October 11, 2014 by EquestrianScholar

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

 

 

  On 2014-10-11 at 3:15 PM, EquestrianScholar said:

We can speak in PM, though I am not sure when we can start. Perhaps later today after I reply in a couple of roleplaying. Though, a this point, I will be honest and say I skimmed the whole thing, that I haven't read it word for word.

Well we could begin as to how viable parts of it are in an mlp lore. Or how... appealing it is?

 

  On 2014-10-11 at 3:15 PM, EquestrianScholar said:

In the case of Nightmare Rarity, the way they defeated her was merely an expansion of what Twilight did in the two part opening Return of Harmony to remind her friends who they are. It being a different sort of "defeat by friendship" as it was Rarity's friends coming together to remind her who she was with thier memories together and thus defeated the Nightmare forces controlling her.

My objection is not how they defeated them. The elements of harmony taken out was made redundant by this solution but nevertheless that's not the problem. The problem is... that Celestia was weak-willed.

Bare with me here i am not trying to insult Celestia. I am simply saying "Did she not know about this solution?" if she did then why didn't she do it in the first place? That is all. No more, no less. If we assume she knew about this solution then she simply didn't have the will, or "wish hard enough" for it to happen. That's what i mean by "weak-willed". But to her defense she did fear the return of Nightmare Moon. Her wishes weren't clear it seems.

 

  On 2014-10-11 at 3:15 PM, EquestrianScholar said:

Shining Armour had a duty, one that involved raising the shield that was supposed to keep out those seeking to hurt ponies in Canterlot. Yet he coulsn't, not by himself, because of being weakened by Chrysalis. Cadance, seeing this, offered her strength and her love to allow Shining to raise the shield. Yet this had the surprising effect of adding a supercharge Shining Armour's shield spell and blowing the changlings into the air and out of Canterlot.

To quote Chrysalis "What good will that do? My changelings already roam free!"  ((also it's changelings not changlings )) They didn't know what they were doing. THAT is certain enough. Or at least they weren't aware of what it would result to. Thus i call on it being a "solution i pulled from my flank out of nowhere". Or better yet? "Stroke of Luck". Thats... not the victory i expected or wanted.

 

  On 2014-10-11 at 3:15 PM, EquestrianScholar said:

Lastly, many fans belief they have the answer to fixing an episode they don't like or was disappointed with. I myself did not like how the writers handled Discord's reform in Keep Calm and Flutter On. More I am of the belief that Discord was a Vetter character as a villain. Yet the problem is getting others to agree with your revision of the episode. I myself was fine with th episode, though I often wish that writers were allowed more tone in which to tell the stories they provide.

All i am saying i just want a villain that isn't defeat by some random out of nowhere superweapon. Cause essentially that's what most DeMs are. EVERY SINGLE ENCOUNTER with villains has been defeated this way.

All i ask is a unique villain defeat that doesn't include tossing him some rainbow beamsplosion.

As for Keep Calm and Flutter On? I agree in a way. In my mind Discord was the WORST villain of them all. Meaning he was the most evil. I still don't disagree too much on his redemption ((thought let's face it i'd really like for Chrysalis to have been in his place instead)) but i think it could be made to work. I am not totally shutting my mind of any redemption so long as it's done right.

 

  On 2014-10-11 at 3:15 PM, EquestrianScholar said:

Though I will offer, as to where Luna was, that she was asleep. The princess of the moon doea have the night shift, so it makes sense she'd be unavailable during the daytime.

Would you sleep with all the ruckus that would be going on? The lovesplosion would sure have woken her up. Her guards, her subjects would. }

It's one of the solutions i occasionally entertain, but still don't exactly buy into.

[HopeFul 122]

My only complaint is that Rainbow is ridiculously fast. She should have flew off ahead of her friends in Sonic Rainboom speed to grab those darn elements. Outside of that, I liked it. It was rushed, yeah, but it's a kid's show. Not every episode is going to be perfectly executed.

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

  On 2014-10-11 at 3:42 PM, HopeFul said:

My only complaint is that Rainbow is ridiculously fast. She should have flew off ahead of her friends in Sonic Rainboom speed to grab those darn elements. Outside of that, I liked it. It was rushed, yeah, but it's a kid's show. Not every episode is going to be perfectly executed.

I remember a quote somewhere. It said that just because it is a kids show doesn't mean it can have excuses to have bad writing. If anything this says that people consider kids stupid. They are not let me tell you that much. They are devious little punks that can do anything if they put their minds into it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yGYK_YmIg

[GreyScholar 1,584]

@@IridscentNionios,

 

Sure that is fine

------------------

 

Ah, this concern. I should have seen it coming as others of brought it up. No, I don't believe it makes her we willed, or that she didn't love her sister enough, or their friendship was not strong. I believe a number of factor could play a part, such as the difference between the Royal Sisters' friendship and the Mane Six's friendship, their bonds both with each other and with the Elements themselves.

 

Yet the arguement I will make is this: Celestia was scared, she was worried both for her sister and her subjects, as a ruler of Equestria it was her job to keep the land safe. There qas a threat, a mare that had once been her sister yet no longer seemed to be such, and sge needed to take care of it before she was shot down and was unable to get up. There was not enough time for any other strategy that sucks you had to use the one power that she knew could defeat Nightmare Moon.

 

Essentially my argument is as follows: different situation, different ponies, different variables, and different setup.

 

I disagree, raising the shield was a viable solution, it was merely a case of Queen chrysalis become an arrogant in her victory and believing that the ponies in the room with her could do nothing to stop her. I would also say her ego was boosted because of her defeating Princess Celestia, most likely her biggest concern and thus feeling full confidance because if it.

 

Laughs, well pick a differnt show then as I believe such defeats have always been common theme in the My Little Pony franchise... and in children shows in general. This is not Doctor Who or Anime, where complex and interesting defeats are common.

 

Before Keep Calm and Flutter On Discord was among my most favorite villians, cunning and powerful qith a flair for having the heroes defeat themselves.with how he broke their minds, twisted their personalitiea, and darkened their thoughts. It was wonderful to watch how he defeated his foes and yes I consisered him evil... in the 'good' way.

 

On Luna asleep, do either of us know how insolated her walls are, or how far her chamber was from where everything was taking place,do we know how deep of a sleeper Luna is? There was many reasonable answers to why Luna would have been asleep yet not wake everything started going down.

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

 

 

  On 2014-10-11 at 4:04 PM, EquestrianScholar said:

Essentially my argument is as follows: different situation, different ponies, different variables, and different setup.

It's debatable.

It also is debatable of why does Celestia need friendship letters brought to her if she already knows about the power of friendship. I mean i get why Twilight has to learn, but why does she need to send those letters?

 

  On 2014-10-11 at 4:04 PM, EquestrianScholar said:

I disagree, raising the shield was a viable solution, it was merely a case of Queen chrysalis become an arrogant in her victory and believing that the ponies in the room with her could do nothing to stop her. I would also say her ego was boosted because of her defeating Princess Celestia, most likely her biggest concern and thus feeling full confidance because if it.

Sure she was arrogant. I just don't see why locking the opponent you don't know if you can defeat together with you bears any tactical use!

 

  On 2014-10-11 at 4:04 PM, EquestrianScholar said:

Laughs, well pick a differnt show then as I believe such defeats have always been common theme in the My Little Pony franchise... and in children shows in general. This is not Doctor Who or Anime, where complex and interesting defeats are common.

That's disappointing... try a bit harder writers.

 

  On 2014-10-11 at 4:04 PM, EquestrianScholar said:

in the 'good' way

I don't get it.

 

  On 2014-10-11 at 4:04 PM, EquestrianScholar said:

On Luna asleep, do either of us know how insolated her walls are, or how far her chamber was from where everything was taking place,do we know how deep of a sleeper Luna is? There was many reasonable answers to why Luna would have been asleep yet not wake everything started going down.

You think Chrysalis or the changelings would have sought to take her down.

[HopeFul 122]

  On 2014-10-11 at 4:02 PM, IridscentNionios said:

I remember a quote somewhere. It said that just because it is a kids show doesn't mean it can have excuses to have bad writing. If anything this says that people consider kids stupid. They are not let me tell you that much. They are devious little punks that can do anything if they put their minds into it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yGYK_YmIg

 

Um.........       I wasn't saying it was dumbed down for children. All writers can have their off stories. There's always the lesser book/episode/movie, even while they may all be enjoyable. I just meant, it was intended to be a show for young children, so I don't get so upset about the poorly written episodes as I do movies and shows intended for higher audiences. My daughter enjoys it, and in the end, I'll play that episode for her, and not judge the bad story. I want to be able to laugh, smile, and sing with her. She loves the music and the animation. I'm sorry...I didn't mean to come across as bratty...That wasn't my intention at all. 

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

  On 2014-10-11 at 5:03 PM, HopeFul said:

Um.........       I wasn't saying it was dumbed down for children. All writers can have their off stories. There's always the lesser book/episode/movie, even while they may all be enjoyable. I just meant, it was intended to be a show for young children, so I don't get so upset about the poorly written episodes as I do movies and shows intended for higher audiences. My daughter enjoys it, and in the end, I'll play that episode for her, and not judge the bad story. I want to be able to laugh, smile, and sing with her. She loves the music and the animation. I'm sorry...I didn't mean to come across as bratty...That wasn't my intention at all. 

Oh no no no it's not that. I am just saying that when you make a story even for children i don't want to hear excuses for bad writing fall to the audience. The audience will treat you how you treat them.

[Poetic Story 30]

DeM? What does that mean? Could somepony tell me?

[Kek 26]

  On 2014-10-15 at 4:35 PM, Poetic Story said:

DeM? What does that mean? Could somepony tell me?

I believe they are referring to Deus Ex Machina.

 

"An unexpected power or event saving a seemingly hopeless situation, especially as a contrived plot device in a play or novel."

[Luna_Dark_Lord 263]

Hello! Oh I just wanted to say this episode literally made me a bit angry because the changeling was a fake of princess cadence and it made a fool of twilight! Yeah I was mad then I was happy to know the real princes camdence was alive underground but I'm glad she was safe and go t to marry shining armor! I'm just glad it happend they way it did /) for all of you

[#1FluttershyFan 206]

SOmething about the plot line confuses me. I don't see how Cadence can be Celestia's niece. Wouldn't that mean that she had a sister who married and had a child? Because I know that Luna doesn't have a special somepony and unless there's some obscure sister to Celestia that I'm unaware of, it doesn't make alot of sense.