Is the show worse when it's playing too safe or when a risk backfires?

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

The question is simple; are the lower-quality episodes of the show for you the product of playing it too safe or backfiring on taking a risk?

 

MLP has done its fair share of both. A lot of people around here seem to be fine with "The Hooffields and McColts" because of the simple plot that doesn't try to shoot above its level. In some cases, it's better to not lose anything when an episode turns out less than expected than to fall short on expectations. However, I noticed that, as of about 5 hours after the episode's airing, its discussion thread only generated 3 pages while many larger-scale episodes draw more than at least 9 in this timeframe. It's also a valid argument that the stunted character development of the Crusaders up until "Crusaders of the Lost Mark" and Spike to this day are also the product of keeping it too safe on the story side, to the point that great episode and development ideas are lost in favor of keeping the characters in familiar situations.

 

On the other side, MLP seems to generate much more attention and intense reaction to both sides when an episode tries to do something more than just a simple morality tale, as in building up Equestrian lore, developing characters, introducing new locations and concepts, and taking on more mature morals than it usually does. MLP gets more praise than the average kids' show for its risk-taking nature relative to other franchise, toy-based, and kid and female-skewing shows. It's not afraid to shake up its character dynamics and continuity to keep itself from going in circles, hence why Twilicorn was a big issue back in Season 3.

 

The latter, however, tends to generate more polarizing reactions. When the show takes a risk, failure usually draws more criticism than if the show were to play it safe, and reaction is by nature more subjective. The show took on bullying in "One Bad Apple", and generated mixed reaction. The show took on what can be construed as an allegory to self-harm in "Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep?" and similarly generated mixed reaction. That goes without saying Twilicorn was once the elephant in the room and in some sense continues to be; either you're with her because of how it gives the show room to grow and change, or against it because of how it implies some sort of favoritism over the other characters.

 

Personally, I'd rather see a risk-taking episode backfire rather than MLP retreading a well-worn plot to take it safe. The writers are usually good at communicating their intentions with episodes, and they're usually good. The reason why MLP is special is because it prefers to stand out by shaking up old formulas, and although I don't expect a top-tier experience with every episode, I find it disappointing when the show takes it safe. When a "safe" episode like "The Hooffields and McColts" comes out, I think of how the plot has been done thousands of times before and all of the ways MLP could have done it differently. It doesn't really set MLP apart as doing anything different, and although I don't hate these episodes, I think of these episodes as disposable and forgettable in the grand scheme of what MLP has done in the past. Even bad episodes that try hard happen to generate conversations that attempt to identify where exactly the episode went wrong.

 

I'd like to know which type of episode you find to be better or worse. Which is worse for the show and which makes for more disappointing episodes; taking it too safe or taking a risk and blowing it?

[Megas 28,069]

Show's good when it's good and it's bad when it's bad. There have been plenty of episodes that play it safe that I feel are still really good, some even the best the show's offered, while the show has had some risky episodes that have fallen flat on their faces, and vice versa

Edited November 14, 2015 by Megas75

[Sidral Mundet 1,666]

Do a bit of both. You can't have all you're episode be risk takers and as TV Tropes is fond of saying "Tropes Are Not Bad" they are tools and using them is not an inherently bad thing, yet over-reliance on them is.  If I had to choose between the two I'd say they should be more risk taking but then again it's not my paycheck on the line, nor do I have any interference for censors or studio excutives. 

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 42,202]

Now this is an interesting question for sure. From what I have seen, it does seem like when the writers take a safe route, it makes an episode become quite predictable and even worse, it can make an episode be unenjoyable. What About Discord? To me was a perfect example of this. The whole episode pretty much relies solely on Discord's zany humor to keep it afloat while all other characters take a backseat. For me, this made the episode quite dull and irritating. 

 

Personally I would prefer them take more risks even if some don't go as well as planned. There is always the potential of of lore development from a not-so-good idea. 

[cmarston1 5,962]

I would rather sees an episode try to take a risk and for it to possibly fail like Magical Mystery Cure(which I love)than an episode to play too safe like Simple Ways did.

[J. Brony 313]

I think that "good episode" and "bad episode" are both subjective terms.  No matter what an episode of MLP entails, there will be people who enjoyed it for one reason or another just as there will be people lining up to tear it apart.  

 

I don't really overthink any episode and just take each at face value, enjoying them all in the process.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

Playing too risky or too safe? I just want them to play SMART and that it. There are people who bitching at everything, you cant please everyone.

[duidamasterXD 9,627]

That goes without saying Twilicorn was once the elephant in the room and in some sense continues to be; either you're with her because of how it gives the show room to grow and change, or against it because of how it implies some sort of favoritism over the other characters.

 

In my opinion, the alicorn thing was a bizarre mixture of both things. Taking a risk, but then going back and playing everything too safe. Some of the common reasons I've seen people give for liking the transformation "It shakes things up and keeps the show from getting stale, and it's an important milestone in her character development" and "She's still the same old Twilight" are actually somewhat contradictory. If she's the same character as before, has it really shaken things up and been that big of a deal?

 

But at the same time... things are different, mainly in some premiere and finale episodes. While they both end with the Mane Six coming together and blowing up a baddie with the power of friendship, The Return of Harmony and Twilight's Kingdom treat the characters in very different ways for most of the episode. Ultimately, I think the writing staff has been trying to have their cake and eat it too, perhaps trying a bit too hard to please a diverse fanbase that can't be pleased all at once.

 

------

 

But in any case, that's only a chunk of what this topic is about. I too prefer it when the show shoots and misses than when it cranks out an episode that feels...nice, but not particularly worth revisiting. Some of my favorite episodes actually have a lot of problems, but I've become vehemently defensive of them because I can see and appreciate what the writer was trying to go for. Some of this just might be because I'm a shameless hipster , but the point stands. I'll take an episode that shook me up a little, missed the mark, but had just a small speck of something amazing over a bland episode that didn't make me feel anything one way or another.

[cider float 2,539]

The show wasn't meant to go out on bounds and leaps. It was supposed to be streamlined and smooth. That was how the show started and should of stayed that way. Of course now the barriers have already been broken and it can't go back. It's forever stained.

[Celli 4,349]

The show wasn't meant to go out on bounds and leaps. It was supposed to be streamlined and smooth. That was how the show started and should of stayed that way. Of course now the barriers have already been broken and it can't go back. It's forever stained.

The show was never meant to be completely safe and by-the-books. Lauren Faust even wanted to go the route it's going now anyway, so it really doesn't make a difference. She wanted adventure stories like the season 5 premiere that didn't play it safe.

And you can't break what was never there in the first place. The show is still good, even better perhaps, and it was always meant to break the boundaries of the old generations.

[cider float 2,539]

The show was never meant to be completely safe and by-the-books. Lauren Faust even wanted to go the route it's going now anyway, so it really doesn't make a difference. She wanted adventure stories like the season 5 premiere that didn't play it safe.

And you can't break what was never there in the first place. The show is still good, even better perhaps, and it was always meant to break the boundaries of the old generations.

And how do you know all this?

 

I'm pretty sure she left when the show was going to be handled differently from her vision and how she was going to go may seem unsafe to you but I would say it's still within the boundaries of what it stands by.

Edited November 15, 2015 by cider float

[Celli 4,349]

And how do you know all this?

 

I'm pretty sure she left when the show was going to be handled differently from her vision and how she was going to go may seem unsafe to you but I would say it's still within the boundaries of what it stands by.

How long have you been a fan? She's said that she wanted adventure stories a long time ago.

And Twilicorn/Princess Cadance/EQG had nothing to do with that. 

[cider float 2,539]

How long have you been a fan? She's said that she wanted adventure stories a long time ago.

And Twilicorn/Princess Cadance/EQG had nothing to do with that. 

So you're only going on the adventure stories remark? Because far as I could tell the show is mostly slice of life shows. I would of been behind the idea of a length long adventure show if that's how it was going to turn out. Who said I cared only for slice of life episodes? 

 

I believe you think there's a difference between adventure and slice of life episodes when they are pretty much the same to me. 

Edited November 15, 2015 by cider float

[Lil Pip 775]

I think when its too safe its lacking more novelty in favor of whats worked in the past, so basically no new types content, no boundaries being broken or expanded, just standards being met like a quota.

So you're only going on the adventure stories remark? Because far as I could tell the show is mostly slice of life shows. I would of been behind the idea of a length long adventure show if that's how it was going to turn out. Who said I cared only for slice of life episodes? 

 

I believe you think there's a difference between adventure and slice of life episodes when they are pretty much the same to me. 

To be technical adventure is episode one season 5. Slife of Life is baby cakes. Adventure is Flutter Dragon. Slice of life is Party of One. Basically, they aren't the same, some are about people's routine, and the others are things outside of their routine which is more dangerous.

[Celli 4,349]

I believe you think there's a difference between adventure and slice of life episodes when they are pretty much the same to me.

They really aren't the same. One's focused on what would be a typical day in real life, and the other is based on fantasy elements and whatnot. Are you really saying that an episode where they're trying to save an entire city from destruction is the same thing as one where you're bonding with your sibling and working towards getting along? Because it's not.

And I'm not saying it's on the level of Attack on Titan, but it's certainly nothing like Care Bears or Barbie and the magical horse or whatever, and definitely pushes the TV-Y rating.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Celli

[cider float 2,539]

They really aren't the same. One's focused on what would be a typical day in real life, and the other is based on fantasy elements and whatnot. Are you really saying that an episode where they're trying to save an entire city from destruction is the same thing as one where you're bonding with your sibling and working towards getting along? Because it's not.

And I'm not saying it's on the level of Attack on Titan, but it's certainly nothing like Care Bears or Barbie and the magical horse or whatever, and definitely pushes the TV-Y rating.

It is the same they go out and do something, there's a conflict they resolve it and learn something or they learn something but don't say it and it's up to the viewer to figure it out.

 

So you're telling me there's no fantasy elements when Twilight magically charmed a doll to make people like it?

What episodes are slice of life and which aren't?

Edited November 15, 2015 by cider float

[Celli 4,349]

It is the same they go out and do something, there's a conflict they resolve it and learn something or they learn something but don't say it and it's up to the viewer to figure it out.

It's not the same thing. You need to look at it from a different angle. 

Yes, they go out and do something, solve a conflict, learn a lesson, and the rest, but that doesn't make them the same, one has high stakes, at least usually, and the other, as I said, is based  on realistic scenarios you would encounter in real life.

[cider float 2,539]

I think when its too safe its lacking more novelty in favor of whats worked in the past, so basically no new types content, no boundaries being broken or expanded, just standards being met like a quota.

To be technical adventure is episode one season 5. Slife of Life is baby cakes. Adventure is Flutter Dragon. Slice of life is Party of One. Basically, they aren't the same, some are about people's routine, and the others are things outside of their routine which is more dangerous.

Flutter dragon can relate to real life. When friends are faced up against a problem they all handle it differently but in the end using an assertive approach up front with words can resolve conflict. 

[Celli 4,349]

Flutter dragon can relate to real life. When friends are faced up against a problem they all handle it differently but in the end using an assertive approach up front with words can resolve conflict. 

Yes, you can replace the story of that episode with a real-life scenario, but that doesn't change the fact that what's shown on-screen is not everyday life, therefore, adventure stories and slice-of life stories are not the same. I'm sorry, but I look at what's being shown, and not what it could be.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Celli

[cider float 2,539]

Yes, you can replace the story of that episode with a real-life scenario, but that doesn't change the fact that what's shown on-screen is not everyday life, therefore, adventure stories and slice-of life stories are not the same. I'm sorry, but I look at what's being shown, and not what it could be.

As if magical ponies that do magical things is everyday life?

[Celli 4,349]

As if magical ponies that do magical things is everyday life?

That's not the point. The point is the setups and stories of slice of life are realistic scenarios and Adventure stories are not.

Them being magical talking ponies has nothing to do with it. I mean, they have human-esque characteristics as is.

[cider float 2,539]

That's not the point. The point is the setups and stories of slice of life are realistic scenarios and Adventure stories are not.

Them being magical talking ponies has nothing to do with it. I mean, they have human-esque characteristics as is.

Except if there was a story that didn't have a realistic situation we wouldn't be able to even decipher what that is. 

 

I wouldn't call those adventure episodes I would call them an abstraction. They've already put magic into this show meaning that the show in it's entirety should satisfy your "adventure" ideas. Exactly them being human-esque is trying to relate to us thus they do things that humans think of and that leads to relating to our situations. 

[Celli 4,349]

Except if there was a story that didn't have a realistic situation we wouldn't be able to even decipher what that is. 

 

I wouldn't call those adventure episodes I would call them an abstraction. They've already put magic into this show meaning that the show in it's entirety should satisfy your "adventure" ideas. Exactly them being human-esque is trying to relate to us thus they do things that humans think of and that leads to relating to our situations. 

I agree that even the adventure episodes have some form of realism, with the finding the problem, addressing and solving it, and then learning from it, but on the surface, it's still not everyday life. 

Now, if they took the magic out, would you say the same thing?

[cider float 2,539]

I agree that even the adventure episodes have some form of realism, with the finding the problem, addressing and solving it, and then learning from it, but on the surface, it's still not everyday life. 

Now, if they took the magic out, would you say the same thing?

What do you mean take the magic out? When I'm talking about magic I mean all the things in the show, magic was an example of the fantasy elements you were talking about, talking ponies, magic, flying dragons all that things is already of fantasy element.

[Celli 4,349]

What do you mean take the magic out? When I'm talking about magic I mean all the things in the show, magic was an example of the fantasy elements you were talking about, talking ponies, magic, flying dragons all that things is already of fantasy element.

Eh, I guess you make a point?

I think I'm starting to confuse myself. 

Anyway, I don't really have anything else to add, so I guess I'll just agree to disagree.