Is Spike actually an Eastern dragon?

[ManaMinori 4,145]

Another day, another pony theory. Please forgive me, you guys, but my mind won't turn off. I try to store some theories for rainy days, but then there gets to being a backlog and...well, it's not pretty. But anyway, since y'all are here for the theory, let's get to it!

 

So one question that gets asked a lot is "why doesn't Spike have wings, and fly, like every other dragon?" We see that in both examples where Spike becomes an adult (Cutie Mark Chronicles, and Secret of My Excess), he still lacks wings. But why is this? The answer might lie in yet another question. Why is Spike obsessed with moustaches?

 

While both questions may seem completely unrelated, the first couple Google search results of a "mustache dragon" displayed Chinese, or Eastern, dragons, and of course, Spike with his fake mustaches. Chinese Dragons are closely associated with carp, and the barbels on a carp's face resemble long tendrils, or a mustache, which is commonly given to Chinese Dragons, who- like carp, can have powerful abilities related to water. Spike's own obsession with mustaches could likely hint at his Eastern origins. (what other scaled character with a mustache and enough vanity to give Rarity a run for her money do we know of?)

 

Chinese dragons are depicted to be emblem of the Emperor and the Imperial command, as mirrored in FiM. The Princess rewards her future sucesor with Spike after his egg was hatched. Similarly, Spike serves as the emblem to Twilight's predetermined imperial ascension, as her mentor's and EoH's heir. Also, like most Eastern classes of dragons, Spike also lacks wings.

 

Additionally, Chinese Dragon symbolizes power and excellence, valiancy and boldness, heroism and perseverance, nobility and divinity. They are energetic, decisive, optimistic, intellegent, and ambitious. Many, if not all of these traits are seen displayed in Spike in episodes where he is present., contrary to fanom belief. (A Dog and Pony Show, Spike at your service, The Crystal Empire, Lesson Zero, Equestria Games, Gauntlet of Fire, Princess Spike, and more)

 

Unlike the negative energies associated with Western Dragons, most Eastern Dragons are beautiful, friendly, and wise. Instead of being hated, they are loved and worshipped. Again, these are evident in Spike. The Crystal ponies of the Empire respect and revere him, and Ponyville residents accept him, without living in fear or malicious intent like the stigma around Western dragons. But like his evidently Eastern dragon origins, Spike is occasionally seen concerned about his appearance (asking Twilight is his scales were straight, upon taking notice of Rarity, ogling himself in mirrors, etc.)

 

As for why Spike's body was bigger and bulkier as an adult, than the slim, elengated, serpentine Chinese Dragons, it could easily be explained as a result of Twilight's magic, which hatched him and simultaneously caused him to undergo a growth spell. Twilight's magic is Western magic, so it would have a different effect and nature than that of Eastern magic.

 

But what are you guys' thoughts on Spike being an Eastern dragon?

Edited April 22, 2016 by Nightmare Muffin

[Buck Testa 5,505]

Actually that's a pretty cool theory! I would be really excited if that is the direction they went with his backstory, that his egg came from overseas and he was a different breed of dragon entirely. Kudos! 

[Untitled Goose Q 5,137]

Not all Western dragons have wings, you know.

 

That said, you do have a good point. Spike does have a good deal of similarities to Eastern dragons, but I'm sold on the adult form explanation you gave- I think it is more likely that the writers themselves are for familiar with the physical attributes of Western dragons, and would have expected the viewers to be more familiar with such. I can certainly accept the idea that Spike's personality may be based on Eastern dragons, with things like the mustache thrown in as small nods.

 

It would be interesting to see what, if anything, the writers have to say on this score.

[Goat-kun 2,528]

Chinese dragons are kinda like magical nature spirits and they are more often associated with water and air than with fire and earth. The closest thing to such a creature in MLP is Discord. Besides, nobody knows what’s up with Spike’s wings. Perhaps these things are like teeth and just pop out at a certain age.

 

I wouldn’t focus too much on his personality. Western dragons in modern fantasy can be quite diverse in form and behavior.

[pony.colin 156]

Chinese dragons are kinda like magical nature spirits and they are more often associated with water and air than with fire and earth. The closest thing to such a creature in MLP is Discord. Besides, nobody knows what’s up with Spike’s wings. Perhaps these things are like teeth and just pop out at a certain age.

 

I wouldn’t focus too much on his personality. Western dragons in modern fantasy can be quite diverse in form and behavior.

 

From day one, I've always been thinking that the physical form of Steven Magnet fits that basic bill of Chinese Dragons.

 

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/5/54/Steven_Magnet_makes_a_path_for_the_ponies_S1E02.png/revision/latest?cb=20140522180009

 

- Long slender scaly body,

- whiskers/mustache

- home is generally in the water.

 

And yet I don't understand how he got categorized as being 'sea serpent'

 

OP, I like how there are some interesting points drawn upon for symbolic representation with Spike and with the possibility that Spike is a different breed of dragon.  It's always been part of the one of the major questions that I'd like to see them explore with Spike more.

Edited April 22, 2016 by pony.colin

[Nekon 21]

I think Celestia have the will to transform Spike to a princess... with wings of course    

[Steel Accord 6,660]

 

 

As for why Spike's body was bigger and bulkier as an adult, than the slim, elengated, serpentine Chinese Dragons, it could easily be explained as a result of Twilight's magic, which hatched him and simultaneously caused him to undergo a growth spell. Twilight's magic is Western magic, so it would have a different effect and nature than that of Eastern magic.

 

Everything up to hear I buy. That last bit is a stretch and a half. We've seen that dragons come in MANY shapes, really Spike's lack of wings is the soul non-uniform trait of either his forms.

 

It would be an interesting twist, for sure and I wouldn't put it past them to do that. One thing though, all of those traits Spike apparently doesn't have that other dragons do? From "Dragon Quest" and this last episode, it's made clear that Spike's overall arc is the reconciliation of "nature vs. nurture." Not everything works by some magic, divinely ordained, archetypal order. Spike is not chivalrous, helpful, and dutiful because he's a dragon of a different breed, he is that way because he was raised among people that fostered those qualities rather than brutality and selfishness.

 

In short, nurture has conquered nature.

[SilverStarApple 849]

Spike being an eastern dragon actually makes a surprising amount of sense, and I wish I came up with this theory first. I would steal it, but I'm not Game Theory.

[Goat-kun 2,528]

From day one, I've always been thinking that the physical form of Steven Magnet fits that basic bill of Chinese Dragons.

 

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/5/54/Steven_Magnet_makes_a_path_for_the_ponies_S1E02.png/revision/latest?cb=20140522180009

 

- Long slender scaly body,

- whiskers/mustache

- home is generally in the water.

 

And yet I don't understand how he got categorized as being 'sea serpent'

 

OP, I like how there are some interesting points drawn upon for symbolic representation with Spike and with the possibility that Spike is a different breed of dragon.  It's always been part of the one of the major questions that I'd like to see them explore with Spike more.

I always forget about that one. Jeah, Magnet is an even better interpretation of eastern dragons.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

I always forget about that one. Jeah, Magnet is an even better interpretation of eastern dragons.

maybe he actually knows about Spike's origins. I find it suspicious that in all this time, they haven't met even once

[Concerned Bystander 2,903]

Given the great variety of appearances we have seen with dragons in the cartoon it's certainly not outwith the bounds of reason to assume that there is more than one species of dragon.  I wouldn't say Spike looks much like a traditional Eastern dragon, in his larger form he looks more like a Western dragon minus wings, but it's certainly plausible that he is simply a species of wingless dragon.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

Given the great variety of appearances we have seen with dragons in the cartoon it's certainly not outwith the bounds of reason to assume that there is more than one species of dragon.  I wouldn't say Spike looks much like a traditional Eastern dragon, in his larger form he looks more like a Western dragon minus wings, but it's certainly plausible that he is simply a species of wingless dragon.

I already provided what I think is sound enough reasoning as to why Spike looks more like a Western dragon as an adult, in the op. Long story short, blame Twilight.

Where are the other wingless species of dragons, in the Western Equestria lands? If there were wingless dragons in the west, why haven't we seen even one, besides Spike, after all this time?

[Concerned Bystander 2,903]

I already provided what I think is sound enough reasoning as to why Spike looks more like a Western dragon as an adult, in the op. Long story short, blame Twilight.

Where are the other wingless species of dragons, in the Western Equestria lands? If there were wingless dragons in the west, why haven't we seen even one, besides Spike, after all this time?

 

Maybe it's a dying species.  It would stand to reason given the advantage flying dragons have over them.  Maybe that's even why Celestia was so keen to get Spike's egg hatched, she may have had it for a long time, giving it to each prospective student until the one came along with precisely the right magic to bring the dead species back to the world.

[ggg-2 3,553]

I don't think Spike is an Eastern dragon. Even wingless, Eastern dragons are capable of flight, so.....

[Goat-kun 2,528]

maybe he actually knows about Spike's origins. I find it suspicious that in all this time, they haven't met even once

Or maybe they have decided that wings weren’t adorbs on a baby dragon and excluded them. And since we haven’t seen any hatchling that would prove or disprove Spike’s origin, and given how no other dragon thought that his wingless state was particularly weird, I shall go with the most reasonable and uncomplicated explanation that dragons don’t get wings until they reach maturity.

 

Plus, since I know you really like “if it’s in the show it’s 100% lore” philosophy, check Dragon Quest once again and pause at the tail wrestling. That deformed dragon with particularly fat tail also didn’t have any wings, yet he was part of the “western” dragon flight.

[cider float 2,538]

Previous Gen Spike didn't have wings. That could be just part of the tradition of Spike in MLP iterations.

[Steve Piranha 29,432]

I'm not sure about him being an eastern  dragon, after all, they are serpent-like as far as I know . Still, the general idea of Spikey-Wikey being a dragon from another land sounds plausible, after all, he's the only dragon without wings so far 

[Leave a Whisper 703]

No. He's got all the hallmarks of a European or classic dragon. He breathes fire, loves treasure, stands on hind legs, has shorter forelimbs and a sturdy, t-rexish body.

 

If memory serves, there is a Western species of dragon that lacks wings.

 

Eastern Dragons are very distinct in their lore and looks. Spike is as far from that as you can get.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Leave a Whisper

[sweetolebob18 728]

Back in the 1970s & 1980s I played Dungeons & Dragons a lot.  For ideas I dabbled in folklore & mythology.  Chinese dragons ran the Celestial bureaucracy.  They also could change size & had various magic powers.  IDK exactly what kind of dragon Spike is, but he definitely seems a different sort than most of the others.

[KhaosBlade 0]

On 4/22/2016 at 6:33 PM, Goat-kun said:

Chinese dragons are kinda like magical nature spirits and they are more often associated with water and air than with fire and earth. The closest thing to such a creature in MLP is Discord. Besides, nobody knows what’s up with Spike’s wings. Perhaps these things are like teeth and just pop out at a certain age.

 

I wouldn’t focus too much on his personality. Western dragons in modern fantasy can be quite diverse in form and behavior.

What if "Draconequus", is just another name for the Eastern Dragon? Spike's flame has sparkles even when he doesn't use it to send letters that doesn't show up around any other dragon's flame. He also isn't affected by StarSwirl's spell, a reality-warping spell. As well, Spike isn't affected by Discord's mind spell. And while Discord might have thought he wasn't worth it, Discord also mind fucked Big Mac, an even more minor character, so that wouldn't make sense. Spike might be immune to memory or mind control. 

 

Maybe he's immune to Fluttershy's Stare like a certain lord of chaos...

 

Now, I'm not saying Spike would be able to warp reality to his whim like Discord can. I believe that Discord gets his power from his insanity, not from his race, as well as the reason he is so taxidermied. Spike would not. Spike would however, be able to use magic (like pyrokinesis, teleportation of self or objects via flame and possible mental magic like illusions). I feel like he would mostly specialize in Alteration and due to his use of a quill, Runes and Sigils. I think Alteration and mental magic due to his connection to the color green, with seems to be associated with Dark Alteration and Mind Magic like the Sirens hate-inducing song, Sombra's mind-controlled soldiers eye glow, and, of course, Chrysilis's mind control.

 

Wow, with Spike eating a dark magic book, losing his mind to greed, and being connected to the one of the Dark colors, is he going to end up being a bit dark? Well, he did burn at least one person to death before hitting puberty...

 

Also, I found this on Wikipedia, so take this with a grain of salt but...  Further sources give variant lists of the nine animal resemblances. Sinologist Henri Doré lists these characteristics of an authentic dragon: "The antlers of a deer. The head of a crocodile. A demon's eyes. The neck of a snake. A tortoise's viscera. A hawk's claws. The palms of a tiger. A cow's ears. Sound familiar?

[Castle Bleck 19,379]

No spoilers, but Molt Down (one of the leaked S8 episodes) will explain it once and for all.

Edited February 27, 2018 by A.V.

[KhaosBlade 0]

12 minutes ago, A.V. said:

No spoilers, but Molt Down (one of the leaked S8 episodes) will explain it once and for all.

I've seen it. But while Eastern dragons don't usually have them, they sometimes do.

[Goat-kun 2,528]

1 hour ago, KhaosBlade said:

What if "Draconequus", is just another name for the Eastern Dragon? Spike's flame has sparkles even when he doesn't use it to send letters that doesn't show up around any other dragon's flame. He also isn't affected by StarSwirl's spell, a reality-warping spell. As well, Spike isn't affected by Discord's mind spell. And while Discord might have thought he wasn't worth it, Discord also mind fucked Big Mac, an even more minor character, so that wouldn't make sense. Spike might be immune to memory or mind control. 

 

Maybe he's immune to Fluttershy's Stare like a certain lord of chaos...

 

Now, I'm not saying Spike would be able to warp reality to his whim like Discord can. I believe that Discord gets his power from his insanity, not from his race, as well as the reason he is so taxidermied. Spike would not. Spike would however, be able to use magic (like pyrokinesis, teleportation of self or objects via flame and possible mental magic like illusions). I feel like he would mostly specialize in Alteration and due to his use of a quill, Runes and Sigils. I think Alteration and mental magic due to his connection to the color green, with seems to be associated with Dark Alteration and Mind Magic like the Sirens hate-inducing song, Sombra's mind-controlled soldiers eye glow, and, of course, Chrysilis's mind control.

 

Wow, with Spike eating a dark magic book, losing his mind to greed, and being connected to the one of the Dark colors, is he going to end up being a bit dark? Well, he did burn at least one person to death before hitting puberty...

 

Also, I found this on Wikipedia, so take this with a grain of salt but...  Further sources give variant lists of the nine animal resemblances. Sinologist Henri Doré lists these characteristics of an authentic dragon: "The antlers of a deer. The head of a crocodile. A demon's eyes. The neck of a snake. A tortoise's viscera. A hawk's claws. The palms of a tiger. A cow's ears. Sound familiar?

The name of Discord's kin means dragon horse. Our glorious writers weren't aware of the existence of longmas and made the creature up instead.

 

If you read old bestiaries you'll notice that unicorns and other creatures are also not made by the book in this IP. Dragons here have the most recognizable western design and that's all there is to it. I can assure you with utmost certainty that Spike is a run-of-the-mill dragon.

[KhaosBlade 0]

I made a pic of what I think Spike will look like in the future as well as a eastern dragon/draconeques.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/341391122121228299/420217425665982489/GuardianSpikeimage.jpg

[KhaosBlade 0]

On 2/27/2018 at 12:44 PM, Goat-kun said:

The name of Discord's kin means dragon horse. Our glorious writers weren't aware of the existence of longmas and made the creature up instead.

 

 

 

If you read old bestiaries you'll notice that unicorns and other creatures are also not made by the book in this IP. Dragons here have the most recognizable western design and that's all there is to it. I can assure you with utmost certainty that Spike is a run-of-the-mill dragon.

While I still believe that draconeques and Eastern Dragons are the same thing, I am aware that Spike, while having oddities about him that should be looked into, is most likely still a Western dragon.