Limits of friendship.

[CastletonSnob 3,079]

I'm tired of villains/antagonists getting reformed.

 

I think a good idea would be to have an episode where friendship fails to reform a villain/antagonist, showing that even the magic of friendship has its limits. I don't think the show should be teaching that everyone can be your friend, even your enemies. 

[Malinter 3,064]

So... we still pretending Sombra wasn't atomized by love then??? XD

[PoisonClaw 8,166]

Ignoring the comics, Sombra was vaporized and one of the only confirmed characters to have died, Chrysalis went the way of Team Rocket and Tirek was sentenced to Tartarus with no chance of parole for all of eternity. Also, Flim and Flam were driven out of town and Lightning Dust was kicked out of the Wonderbolts and likely won't return. Then we have the Sirens, who ran away with their tail fins between their legs after their gems were shattered and haven't been seen or mentioned since.

 

Even in the comics, Chrysalis is evil to the core and will never be given a second chance after all the crap she's pulled and Tirek is still Tirek. I'm just saying that there are more than a few examples of villains too irredeemable for friendship.

[Merion 783]

I don't think the show should be teaching that everyone can be your friend, even your enemies. 

 

I kinda agree with you... I mean, it's important to be nice and friendly to other people and that's a good message to deliver to little kids. 

 

On the other hand tho... it's impossible to be actual fiends with everyone. Sometimes you just can't be in good terms with a person who's simply too different from you. It's ok to be just neutral towards someone, isn't it?

 

Also, sometimes people grow apart and friendships end. Letting go of an old friend is fine, too.

[cmarston1 5,959]

Finally someone said it.

I too am so sick and tired of villain reformations in this show.

But after Starlight Glimmer got friendship handed to her on a silver platter after starting a cult, brainwashing others in her reeducation camp, forcing her ideologies onto others and planning to do the same for all of Equestria, several instances of attempted murder, resisting arrest, stalking and spying, breaking and entering a princess's castle and royally screwing up the fabric of time and space in order to ruin the lives of the mane 6, which in turn lead to multiple different timelines in which Starlight is responsible for causing who knows how much pain and suffering to countless ponies all over Equestria, including one barren wasteland for all we know every single one of them is dead, I am pretty sure at this point anyone and everyone can and will be redeemed in this show not matter how insulting it could possibly be.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

So... we still pretending Sombra wasn't atomized by love then??? XD

he was turned to shadow by the sisters, 1000 years ago. He never stopped being shadow, but only looked to become more corporal (perhaps shadows becoming more dense through magic into a more tangible form) the closer he got to the heart.. but still shadow.

Finally someone said it.

I too am so sick and tired of villain reformations in this show.

But after Starlight Glimmer got friendship handed to her on a silver platter after starting a cult, brainwashing others in her reeducation camp, forcing her ideologies onto others and planning to do the same for all of Equestria, several instances of attempted murder, resisting arrest, stalking and spying, breaking and entering a princess's castle and royally screwing up the fabric of time and space in order to ruin the lives of the mane 6, which in turn lead to multiple different timelines in which Starlight is responsible for causing who knows how much pain and suffering to countless ponies all over Equestria, including one barren wasteland for all we know every single one of them is dead, I am pretty sure at this point anyone and everyone can and will be redeemed in this show not matter how insulting it could possibly be.

Friendship is magic

It is the only way

[Guest]

I kind of agree. I don't think it's a good idea to reform people who have like... A mass killing spree or slavery spree under their belt or something. Even if they say they've changed, some people don't. There needs to be a limit to reformation.

[Guest]

I don't think the show should be teaching that everyone can be your friend, even your enemies. 

 

I completely agree. It's impossible to get along with everyone, let alone make friends with everyone. Also judging by what I have experienced, trying to befriend enemies (or in this case people that behave cruelly) isn't really worth it. 

[MickeyAdaptus 2,211]

Finally someone said it.

I too am so sick and tired of villain reformations in this show.

But after Starlight Glimmer got friendship handed to her on a silver platter after starting a cult, brainwashing others in her reeducation camp, forcing her ideologies onto others and planning to do the same for all of Equestria, several instances of attempted murder, resisting arrest, stalking and spying, breaking and entering a princess's castle and royally screwing up the fabric of time and space in order to ruin the lives of the mane 6, which in turn lead to multiple different timelines in which Starlight is responsible for causing who knows how much pain and suffering to countless ponies all over Equestria, including one barren wasteland for all we know every single one of them is dead, I am pretty sure at this point anyone and everyone can and will be redeemed in this show not matter how insulting it could possibly be.

thats true, but i bet becoming her friend was the smartest move at that point, i doubt they wanted her to end causing more danger and destruction, i mean, she managed to alter space and time with a single spell, she actually could have wiped out anyone from existance. If you are up againts someone like that, you really dont want them as a enemy xD.

[heavens-champion 1,905]

thats true, but i bet becoming her friend was the smartest move at that point, i doubt they wanted her to end causing more danger and destruction, i mean, she managed to alter space and time with a single spell, she actually could have wiped out anyone from existance. If you are up againts someone like that, you really dont want them as a enemy xD.

Besides imagine if she ran into another villain, who would want to use her magical abilities.

[MickeyAdaptus 2,211]

Besides imagine if she ran into another villain, who would want to use her magical abilities.

yeah, thats a very good point, starlight was to much caught up in her own littl revenge that she was to ignorant what she coulde accomplish with that spell. Hell, she chould just simply whipe twilight out of existance, but ofcourse she wanted to it the *fun* way.

 

(now that i am saying this, that revenge sounds odly familair to atntoher character i know from a certain anime...)

[cmarston1 5,959]

thats true, but i bet becoming her friend was the smartest move at that point, i doubt they wanted her to end causing more danger and destruction, i mean, she managed to alter space and time with a single spell, she actually could have wiped out anyone from existance. If you are up againts someone like that, you really dont want them as a enemy xD.

I was thinking that seeing as how she is a quick learner when it comes to magic such as learning how to use the dark spell Celestia showed her in The Crystal Empire, Twilight could have defeated Starlight Glimmer using the same cutie mark removal spell that was used against her and the mane 6 in The Cutie Map.

It would make for some pretty good ironic and fitting punishment for her multiple crimes against Equestria.

After that she would end up locked in a prison or mental institution if she were to have some kind of villainous breakdown.

But that's just how I would have ended the finale.

Edited May 30, 2016 by cmarston1

[tangra 15]

I sort of agree. Some villains are worth redeeming and others are not. People like Gilda or Lighting Dust are in good positions for this, but Tirek and Sombra are not. Excluding the comic, we don't see much explanation on why these villains are the way they are. 

 

I would like an episode that would be not unlike the Batman comic "The Killing Joke". When Batman confronts the Joker, he offers him a chance at redemption and rehabilitation. The Joker contemplates accepting it in a rare moment of sanity, before turning him down. "It's too late for that". The Joker tells a joke exemplifying the insanity of it all. Both him and Batman laugh, while Batman chokes the Joker, presumably to death.

 

Now I'm not saying I want to see Twilight choke Tirek out, but I would like to see her face him again. He would be defeated, and then show that he would never stop working against them. Twilight would reluctantly sentence him to Tartarus. It's a good lesson to teach that some people are just too far gone.

[GeekySonic 1,150]

I don't really agree. I think the show has done a nice job of making it clear that no truly evil character will earn a chance to redeem themselves.

 

There are a lot of times when people do horrible things, and you may think they don't deserve a second chance. And oftentimes, in MLP, it's true. Discord, Starlight, Trixie, and probably others I can't remember did not deserve to be reformed.

 

As I've said before, I think that the fact that ponies are so willing to forgive when it's undeserved goes to show how much better they are than us. I actually think that's a lesson that could stand to have an episode of its own (that was kinda related to the moral of the season 5 finale, but I think it could have been done a lot better).

[King Sejong 859]

   Judging my everyone's logic, neither Scrooge nor the Grinch could be reformed, because of dual morality, or many of the anime villains that turned over a new leaf, the Japanese understand what it means to be a reformed society, even as their neighbours still harbour resentment. Both the fandom and the show, try to support nuance, that not every villain is wholly evil, and not every good character is totally good, because we are all capable of either actions, conscientiously or unintended, which is characteristic of friendships, we do or say things we regret, it is how we recover, that is the mark of a valuable relationship. The exceptions are King Sombra, Queen Crystallise, and Tirek, these are pathologically bad characters, and in anime, these characters exist too, but again it makes the good use nuance, to determine if the villain is worth saving, before the final sentence is determined, otherwise, we can become indistinguishable from the villain, corrupted by the same power of fate, that made villains possible in the first place. It's not the limits of friendship, it is the limits of morality, and how far we are willing to go, Avatar Aang could have killed Fire Lord Ozai, but took away his bending, Twilight Sparkle could have destroyed Tirek, but both showed great discipline in their emotions, and did not become that the villain they defeated.     

[Malinter 3,064]

he was turned to shadow by the sisters, 1000 years ago. He never stopped being shadow, but only looked to become more corporal (perhaps shadows becoming more dense through magic into a more tangible form) the closer he got to the heart.. but still shadow.

 

 

Sure. Celestia and Lune turned him to shadow, but the crystal heart....

 

https://youtu.be/DdEFqtMUx00?t=67

[chaosprincess 1,067]

I agree with you I was disappointed when they reformed Discord I really liked his character, but once he was reformed he became a character that was not worth having in anymore I enjoyed watching him cause chaos due to it was humerus, but besides that they have been reforming pretty much every character I understand this is a kids show, but not everybody can be friends or get along.

[Shadowrunner 41]

Discord was in a sense a god, so they would have a hard time finding a permeant solution for him. But Stalin pony should have at least gotten prison. Though the question still has to be asked. Can the show handle a straight up dark episode, in the vain of the war with sombra but less slap fight and more with spears and spells that cut burn and straight up, no doubt kill. Every episode has had one thing in common, the main 6 have won, looked in one way or another like the good guys. Mostly because that is what they are meant for, to resemble quirky heroes that yes have there flaws but always come out on top in a way. I just have to ask can the show take straight up war, not reference to it or suggestions of it but a no compromises fight that leaves you feeling like the right thing was still wrong. Chrysalis would work well for this, as here lust for power comes from the simple desire for her and her children not to starve to death, but that comes at such a massive cost to others she has to be stopped. So straight up killing (as in no doubts dead)  her may be the only choice as prison has failed too many times to count, and her passing may very well be the end of all the changelings. The opposite of reform is often something no one wants to think of and i wonder if the show is or ever will be ready to tackle that.