Clop SECTION

[Ruddboy Olaf 10,628]

I'd be all for that.

It'd be nice to comment on and discuss sexy pictures and sexy stories without having to make an account on some shady website. But, I doubt the mods would allow such a thing. They're very strict when it comes to NSFW stuff.

 

1 hour ago, ChocolateCrane said:

There are active forums where you can discuss the intricacies of clop related materials? Would you kindly point me in the direction of such a wondrous paradise?

Every site I have been to is either anti "lewd" stuffs: Mlp forums, Ponychan, EQD

Or childish and cringeworthy: /mlp/, deviantart, derpibooru

Deviantart actually has restrictions when it comes to lewd art.

[Jeric 46,851]

48 minutes ago, AppleDashPoni said:

Interestingly enough, things along these lines were very recently discussed internally at Poniverse. My personal belief is that such a section would not hurt the forums, as long as it was an opt-in and only allowed for those members who are 18 years of age or older. If we want to be a forum to cater to the entire fandom, then we should do our best to cater to everyone's interests, even those that might make some people uncomfortable (hence why it would be opt-in). Legal issues were discussed as well, and I think the conclusion is that if a user lies about their age to gain access, that is not an issue that would land Poniverse in legal trouble. If staff found out, of course, they'd be immediately removed and potentially even banned.

This is something that needs more discussion between myself and the staff of MLPF, but who knows - this suggestion could actually become a reality

Interesting. Since you mentioned that, I'll bring up some of my concerns regarding the internal operations and policies.

Before I begin ... I have never had an issue with NSFW material in the fandom (save for perhaps extreme gore and foalcon). It isn't a topic I generally discuss even among friends here due to the dramatic age gap with most of them (old enough to be their father and all that). Anyway, there are a few details I think that you need to iron out. I needed to say that because I do not want anyone to consider my stance to be based around some moral imperative. It isn't. 

Ignoring the user satisfaction issues (I'm sure you will all properly assess the fallout potential) there are some things I would like to see you all focus on before any rollout. 

Underage MLPF staff considerations, including possible enhancements and /or config changes to the Report Center. Underage staff members should not able to view or act on what may constitute pornography. That may also mean strict rules within the various Skype chats so that staff do not inadvertently share anything.

It may also be important to look into caselaw regarding linked PII. Age itself is not PII, but it is considered linked in a legal sense. Some of that can be safeguarded programmatically, but not everything. There is the possibility that a user may engage an underage Sectional without knowing their age to alert them to issues in the NSFW forum, which would include screenshots. 

Honestly, you may need to consider evaluating the age limit for staff. At least that would avoid that whole issue. 

Obviously, another major consideration would be to make it so all features tied to search indexing can be filtered by users over 18 who do not want to opt-in to the NSFW forum. We have had complaints about people who don't care about RP seeing RP topics on the index page. I can imagine the same issue would occur with an NSFW board.

Would NSFW Commissions be permitted within the commission system? If so please be cautious as you would now be entering another layer of legal silliness. A minor accidentally buying porn (even cartoon porn) may be a problem. If you are not going to consider this, you may want to have a response ready to go as this may be a new constant request. 

This would be a MAJOR shift for this place. Continue to engage the community one on one regarding concerns they may have.  I would strongly discourage you from just 'flipping the switch'. More to that, try and work on community AND forum staff consensus. If you find that the opinion is split, it may be enough to table this for now or re-evaluate.

You have a lot to consider and I don't want this forum or the people who staff it to find themselves in any awkward situations. 

This is about as general as I can get without divulging any internal situations and I'm not about to discuss those in a public setting. 

Basically, don't rush this. 

[Jeric 46,851]

Adding to the items of that may need to be addressed, an NSFW forum would also open up requests regarding ERP, which will pose it's own unique challenges, both in staffing, drafting new rules, ensuring character databases are also appropriately opt-in if they are permitted to contain certain details.

Is that something you will also be considering? 

[AppleDashPoni 165]

@Jeric That was actually where the discussion started - at the potential of allowing NSFW commissions. Since knowledge of the fact that this has been discussed recently is already public, I see no reason not to share further details of what was discussed - of course, I won't share anyone's individual opinions

The idea would be that NSFW commissions would be allowed, only in PM (this is assuming no "clop section" exists), and only for those who are, once again, 18+. I would have to look at some notes on another PC to see what finer details were discussed. Since this would now allow some form of NSFW content in PM, there would be no reason not to go all the way and also allow ERP in private. This, as you said, opens up more interesting issues, which were again discussed - the results of which are also in those notes I can't currently access.

Your point about the underage staffers is a good one, and was also mentioned. The decision regarding that was that that would be discussed during a more serious, detailed discussion of these possibilities.

[Jeric 46,851]

@AppleDashPoni I appreciate you touching on those concerns I raised. I also have no doubt that a few may have brought them up internally. I had some opportunity to see how you and the discord moderation team launched the NSFW channel and subsequently handled even the hint of NSFW outside the restrictied 18+ channel. Even though it's brand spanking new, that team has done a decent job at communicating the rule. I can't fault you on implementation of permitting NSFW there. Especially with what can be a ... well .... passionately debated topic in the fandom. 

 

[Lenny 249]

8 hours ago, AppleDashPoni said:

Interestingly enough, things along these lines were very recently discussed internally at Poniverse. My personal belief is that such a section would not hurt the forums, as long as it was an opt-in and only allowed for those members who are 18 years of age or older. If we want to be a forum to cater to the entire fandom, then we should do our best to cater to everyone's interests, even those that might make some people uncomfortable (hence why it would be opt-in). Legal issues were discussed as well, and I think the conclusion is that if a user lies about their age to gain access, that is not an issue that would land Poniverse in legal trouble. If staff found out, of course, they'd be immediately removed and potentially even banned.

This is something that needs more discussion between myself and the staff of MLPF, but who knows - this suggestion could actually become a reality

True, people could lie. But, I think I might have a solution that I posted above somewhere. If they put their age under 18 when they first join, they won't be allowed in. I think puting your birthday is mandatory BUT the users can edit settings to let certain people see it.

 

[Raven Drakeaurd 292]

Nope, nope, fuck that shit, fuuuuck that. Takin' a train straight to fuck-that-shit-vill.

[Black Sabbath 2,486]

2 hours ago, Lenny said:

True, people could lie. But, I think I might have a solution that I posted above somewhere. If they put their age under 18 when they first join, they won't be allowed in.

But plenty of people lie about their age when making an account, so that wouldn't even solve the problem. 

[Malcontent 196]

7 minutes ago, Raven Drakeaurd said:

Nope, nope, fuck that shit, fuuuuck that. Takin' a train straight to fuck-that-shit-vill.

As constructive as this is, you all may want to consider this point. Along with those you may being..you may also chase away more...is that a viable concession?

[Raven Drakeaurd 292]

2 minutes ago, Malcontent said:

As constructive as this is, you all may want to consider this point. Along with those you may being..you may also chase away more...is that a viable concession?

 

* You hear your voice echo on as you wait for a response that never comes.

* "Hello?" You call out, still no answer.

* You take a step forward as you plan on looking for someone, as you set your foot down you hear what sounds like the crumpling of paper, you move your foot and see what looks to be a sheet of paper on the floor. You bend down and pick up the piece of paper off the floor and turn it over to see that it has several listing for flats in "Fuck-that-shit-vill."

* You now question your existence.

[AppleDashPoni 165]

36 minutes ago, Raven Drakeaurd said:

Nope, nope, fuck that shit, fuuuuck that. Takin' a train straight to fuck-that-shit-vill.

Do you have an actual opinion instead of just "no"? Nobody is really likely to listen to you until you can provide that

[Raven Drakeaurd 292]

Just now, AppleDashPoni said:

Do you have an actual opinion instead of just "no"? Nobody is really likely to listen to you until you can provide that

Well then, since a site admin called me out I'll give my opinion, I feel that this forum is not really suited to "Clop" style content. I see this forum as very family friendly site and I feel adding an area for "Clop" content would reduce this forums overall user base.

[Frozen The Unicorn 484]

@Lenny

There's a big difference between Discussion of Clop, and having NSFW content on the forum.
The sad and annoying fact is that age gating a section of the forum, would not only require more PPI from users (something that for minors, is heavily restricted as mention by Jeric) but also it goes against the core principals of Poniverse.

Poniverse aims to be an All age-friendly forum, for all members of the fandom and not just Bronies.  I feel strongly that adding an NSFW section to the site, which although may be enjoyed by some members, would be highly against this overall goal of the forums and as I previously stated, would alienate a lot of the user base.

The forum doesn't need to have, an NSFW section in order to be hip. It's a forum first and foremost for the discussion of the Show. If you want porn, go to a porn site to get it. Discussing Clop is fine and can go right ahead as long as it stays mainly safe for work.

This forum, has and always will be a family friendly forum.

[Moony the Cat 3,702]

This is the biggest Mlp Forum i know off and having a porn section on here...would not do the fandom any good. We should be a good example for the Fandom. We dont need NSFW Stuff here, there are other Sides for that.

And thats coming from a clopper.

[Drunk Not I Am 1,070]

It doesn't need to be here, there's a places for that sort of thing. As other members have said, this is a great example of the community, don't ruin it. 

Edited March 29, 2017 by Drunk Not I Am

[Lenny 249]

13 hours ago, Jeric said:

Adding to the items of that may need to be addressed, an NSFW forum would also open up requests regarding ERP, which will pose it's own unique challenges, both in staffing, drafting new rules, ensuring character databases are also appropriately opt-in if they are permitted to contain certain details.

Is that something you will also be considering? 

 May you define erp? I don't think the search I did gave me the right definition

[Jeric 46,851]

23 minutes ago, Lenny said:

 May you define erp? I don't think the search I did gave me the right definition

Erotic Roleplay. ADP, suggested that this was discussed, though the verbiage he used seems to imply that it was specific to PM's and not a restricted forum structure that I alluded to when I mentioned staffing concerns. An ERP forum would be different than PM based ERP. Need to mention that lest anyone be confused by my exact phrasing. 

[Lenny 249]

1 hour ago, Jeric said:

Erotic Roleplay. ADP, suggested that this was discussed, though the verbiage he used seems to imply that it was specific to PM's and not a restricted forum structure that I alluded to when I mentioned staffing concerns. An ERP forum would be different than PM based ERP. Need to mention that lest anyone be confused by my exact phrasing. 

What if they were allowed only in clop section? A

Edited March 29, 2017 by Lenny

[ChocolateCrane 156]

Is it really so hard to implement an age-restricted board to MLP Forums?

[Malcontent 196]

30 minutes ago, ChocolateCrane said:

Is it really so hard to implement an age-restricted board to MLP Forums?

No one is saying it's hard. We're mainly discussing the ethical and long term ramifications of adding a taboo like section that can 

A) be accessed easily by lying (who lies on the Internet right? 

2) be viewed as a step backwards to a seemingly fun filled and family friendly enviroment. (Let's be honest some people still think mlp is for girls and kids) 

And D) be a discouraging factor to some users vs he ones who absolutely must have it (because we don't have clop anywhere else in the entire web) 

 

No mention of hard is there. Though how you've missed that makes me wonder a few things.

[Soul Flare 403]

42 minutes ago, ChocolateCrane said:

Is it really so hard to implement an age-restricted board to MLP Forums?

Hardly. The real question is: is it really necessary?

Here's my answer, kindly provided by another user:

 

8 hours ago, Raven Drakeaurd said:

Nope, nope, fuck that shit, fuuuuck that. Takin' a train straight to fuck-that-shit-vill.

 

[Malcontent 196]

2 minutes ago, Soul Flare said:

Hardly. The real question is: is it really necessary?

See. They get it  

[Malcontent 196]

5 minutes ago, Soul Flare said:

Hardly. The real question is: is it really necessary?

Here's my answer, kindly provided by another user:

 

 

How colorful.  

[ChocolateCrane 156]

18 minutes ago, Malcontent said:

No one is saying it's hard. We're mainly discussing the ethical and long term ramifications of adding a taboo like section that can 

A) be accessed easily by lying (who lies on the Internet right? 

2) be viewed as a step backwards to a seemingly fun filled and family friendly enviroment. (Let's be honest some people still think mlp is for girls and kids) 

And D) be a discouraging factor to some users vs he ones who absolutely must have it (because we don't have clop anywhere else in the entire web) 

 

No mention of hard is there. Though how you've missed that makes me wonder a few things.

 

A ) NSFW material can be easily accessed pretty much anywhere on the Internet; this site allowing for such behind an age-wall isn't something out of the norm. If a minor lies about their age, that is on themselves, it's not the site that is at fault. 

B ) Those are two contradicting statements right there. The show itself is family friendly. The "normal" sections of this forum are also family friendly. I am proposing a section for adults only; this would only add to the diversity and encapsulate all civil aspects of the fandom  (I am not saying ANYTHING is allowed to be posted there; moderation will be required just like on any other board)

C ) Again, I do not know of any other active forum where the main purpose is to critique, discuss, and recommend Clop materials. I have asked several times for people to point me in the direction of such a site, which not a single person has been able to supply. Most websites that allow for Clop actually discourage meaningful discussion in favor of "just enjoying the images and moving on". Seeing how many articulate and intelligent people this forum houses, it makes me excited at the potential goldmine of conversation a proper NSFW board could facilitate.

 

Edited March 29, 2017 by ChocolateCrane

[Jeric 46,851]

7 hours ago, AppleDashPoni said:

Do you have an actual opinion instead of just "no"? Nobody is really likely to listen to you until you can provide that

I had this text as a reply to another quoted item, but it was sacrificed to the Pony God's probably due to the quirky board . I do again. 

As you can see, there are some strong opinions on both sides of this issue.  It is a delicate subject for some. A few responses showcase exactly one major problem I see happening -- namely fragmentation and schism. It's a topic the entirety of the staff have to discuss. Risk analysis on how people will take it should be a priority.  

It's not a proposal without merit, but it will have some unfortunate consequences. If anything has been proven as a 100% truism around here, it's that people tend to withhold what they feel -- until there is a 'critical mass' moment. 

I have faith in you to not ram any policy changes down the throat of either the staff or the users. I'm hoping that they (the community and staff) help you out by making their view on this known. You won't know the full breadth of the impact unless their opinions are made and made clear.

This goes for staff and this goes for the users. It doesn't matter what side of the issue you fall on. If you don't want it to be public then send a PM to someone on staff like the Admins and ADP. Reach out to decision makers. Silence kills. 

If you say nothing, and it goes a way you don't like, that would be unfortunate if you missed an opportunity to give your view. Nobody should berate anyone for whatever side they take on an NSFW board.