Starlight Glimmer and My Mixed Thoughts

[FemaleIntrovert1995 138]

Spoiler

 

After I watched, A Royal Problem, I couldn't stop smiling. The episode was hilarious, I couldn't stop laughing! Luna trying to do Celestia's job was comedy gold. Also, we get some character out of Celestia. She likes to cook and is an extrovert. I also liked her dark (well, fiery) side. Daybreaker had a beautiful design. The pacing was excellent, music box Twilight was entertaining, and the giant Twilight, that appeared in Starlight's dream, was pure nightmare fuel. I enjoyed the episode over all, however there were a few bumps on the road. Decent sized potholes on the road.

First, I'm gonna get Twilight out of the way. Twilight was down right annoying. Her constant freak outs and "helicopter mom" attitude wasn't really helping Starlight. In Starlight's nightmare, a giant Twilight towered over the unicorn and started to yell at her. Maybe this is how Starlight feels when Twilight acts more like an overbearing mother, than a teacher. Celestia didn't follow or spy on Twilight, so why would this young Alicorn think it's okay to stalk her student and make decisions for her? Twilight isn't new to the teaching world. She taught Applebloom, Sweetie Belle, and Scootaloo some basic things, and didn't freak out at them. Yes, Twilight is a worrywart and has anxiety issues, but didn't Cadence help Twilight keep her(Twilight) cool?

Starlight on the other hand had me raise an eyebrow. I know she's Twilight's student, but jeez! This unicorn is op(over powered) to the max! Lets list out some thing this unicorn did:

Out smarted Twilight when they were in the past.

She kept up with Twilight, who's an Alicorn.

It took Twilight a couple days to finish Star Swirl the Bearded's spell, it took Starlight Glimmer hours to finish his spell.

She can remove cutiemarks.

She can make better looking cakes than Mrs. Cake. 

She can levitate herself at high altitudes without getting tired.

SHE REMOVED CELESTIA AND LUNA'S CUTIMARKS, AND SWITCHED THEM. THAT IS DISCORD LEVEL MAGIC.

It's more believable when she could remove the cutiemark from Twilight. Twilight has been an Alicorn long, so she's not at her God-mode state yet. However, switching cutiemarks on two immortal goddesses is too much. Twilight even wondered how Starlight did that. The goddesses themselves couldn't switch their cutiemarks. Starlight possess powers of an Alicorn. She could probably take on Tirek if she wanted to.

Starlight doesn't have a lot of screen time. Even though she's off screen a lot, characters still like her. Before the rescued, Starlight was friends with all six ponies. Maud Pie even likes her. Even though she nearly destroyed The Castle of Friendship, put mind spells on ponies, help ponies hostage until they join her cult, and went completely nuts when her friend got his cutiemark first. Every pony still wants to be around her. When Sunset Shimmer did something bad, she had to clean the mess she started and had to win back the trust from her peers. While, Starlight is chilling in castle, eating pancakes, and reading books.

With all of these things in mind, I assumed Starlight Glimmer was a Mary Sue. However, I'm wrong, I'm dead wrong.

 

"The prototypical Mary Sue is an original female character in a fanfic who obviously serves as an idealized version of the author mainly for the purpose of Wish Fulfillment. She's exotically beautiful, often having an unusual hair or eye color, and has a similarly cool and exotic name. She's exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas, and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting. She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws — either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing. She has an unusual and dramatic Back Story. The canon protagonists are all overwhelmed with admiration for her beauty, wit, courage and other virtues, and are quick to adopt her as one of their True Companions, even characters who are usually antisocial and untrusting; if any character doesn't love her, that character gets an extremely unsympathetic portrayal. She has some sort of especially close relationship to the author's favorite canon character — their love interest, illegitimate child, never-before-mentioned sister, etc. Other than that, the canon characters are quickly reduced to awestruck cheerleaders, watching from the sidelines as Mary Sue outstrips them in their areas of expertise and solves problems that have stymied them for the entire series."(TVtropes)

Starlight is not just overpowered and loved by every pony. She also has a dramatic past that makes no sense. However, Starlight's flaws keep her away from being a Mary Sue. Starlight suffers from anxiety, anger issues, neglect, and maybe depression. She can be very deceptive, controlling, and cries easily. Out of all of the mlp characters, Starlight is more human than mystical creature. Behind all that power and friendship, she's just a sad unicorn looking for a purpose.

I don't hate Starlight Glimmer, but she's not my top ten favorite characters either. I'm fickle with her, so I tend to leave her alone. I just hope she doesn't turn into an Alicorn, and if she does:  

   thanks for reading!

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

12 minutes ago, FemaleIntrovert1995 said:

SHE REMOVED CELESTIA AND LUNA'S CUTIMARKS, AND SWITCHED THEM. THAT IS DISCORD LEVEL MAGIC.

It's more believable when she could remove the cutiemark from Twilight. Twilight has been an Alicorn long, so she's not at her God-mode state yet. However, switching cutiemarks on two immortal goddesses is too much. Twilight even wondered how Starlight did that. The goddesses themselves couldn't switch their cutiemarks. Starlight possess powers of an Alicorn. She could probably take on Tirek if she wanted to.

Honestly? I don't see the big deal here. The Alicorns clearly aren't gods, maybe immortal, maybe very long-lived but no God's. I don't think Starlight changing their marks is any more impressive than her switching or changing the marks of anypony else. Honestly, nopony in MLP seems to be a true "God". Even Discord still got sick, held still and beaten by Tirek, and had his magic taken away by Chrysalis's throne. I think it's the fans who keep trying to insist these very powerful characters must be gods, rather than just...really powerful characters.

The Princesses are probably just as vulnerable as anypony else when caught off-guard, I don't think they have any special protection to things like this. They might be better at avoiding it when on-guard and using a shield or something, but not normally. Yes, they can move the sun and moon, but a bunch of unicorns could do that before them.

 Also, pretty sure Glimmer would still get stomped by full power Tirek. Unless she went back in time and prevented him! But that's a dangerous idea.

[Photon Jet 5,491]

Despite everything, Starlight's still a great character.

[Peter16373 103]

Why does everybody keep forgetting about the fact that this is a magical world. Which means there are bound to be spells that NEGATE DURABILITY. So no matter how powerful you are you can still be affected. For example Discord was put to sleep in the comics by Luna's spell even though he is much more powerful than she is.

[FemaleIntrovert1995 138]

6 hours ago, RareBase said:

Honestly? I don't see the big deal here. The Alicorns clearly aren't gods, maybe immortal, maybe very long-lived but no God's. I don't think Starlight changing their marks is any more impressive than her switching or changing the marks of anypony else. Honestly, nopony in MLP seems to be a true "God". Even Discord still got sick, held still and beaten by Tirek, and had his magic taken away by Chrysalis's throne. I think it's the fans who keep trying to insist these very powerful characters must be gods, rather than just...really powerful characters.

The Princesses are probably just as vulnerable as anypony else when caught off-guard, I don't think they have any special protection to things like this. They might be better at avoiding it when on-guard and using a shield or something, but not normally. Yes, they can move the sun and moon, but a bunch of unicorns could do that before them.

 Also, pretty sure Glimmer would still get stomped by full power Tirek. Unless she went back in time and prevented him! But that's a dangerous idea.

Interesting. Thank you for pointing those things out. I haven't thought about it that way. I was caught off guard when Starlight did this. I wondered how powerful is she? That's something I didn't think she could do...we need an episode that only focuses on Starlight's past. I believe overbearing parents caused her to snap. What do you think?

Also, the reason why I called them "goddesses and gods" was because Celestia is similar to the Egyptian god Ra. Discord is also similar to the Egyptian god Apophis. 

 

2 hours ago, Peter16373 said:

Why does everybody keep forgetting about the fact that this is a magical world. Which means there are bound to be spells that NEGATE DURABILITY. So no matter how powerful you are you can still be affected. For example Discord was put to sleep in the comics by Luna's spell even though he is much more powerful than she is.

I didn't forget that this is a magical world. I was just sharing my thoughts on Starlight Glimmer. I was just overwhelmed by the power that this unicorn possessed. 

I watched as the mane 6 grew up and developed along the way. Starlight is a developing character. I would like to know more about her past. And yes, her creating a cult, due to the fact that her foal friend got his cutiemark first and left Starlight behind, is only part of her motivation. I just want to know how she harnessed these magical spells. Twilight and Moon Dancer went to top notch schools for gifted unicorns, I wonder if Starlight went to one as well...

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

1 hour ago, FemaleIntrovert1995 said:

Interesting. Thank you for pointing those things out. I haven't thought about it that way. I was caught off guard when Starlight did this. I wondered how powerful is she? That's something I didn't think she could do...we need an episode that only focuses on Starlight's past. I believe overbearing parents caused her to snap. What do you think?

Also, the reason why I called them "goddesses and gods" was because Celestia is similar to the Egyptian god Ra. Discord is also similar to the Egyptian god Apophis. 

Overbearing parents? Maybe, or no parents, so nopony to comfort her and help her make new friends after Sunburst left, or neglectful parents who just don't care.

They might be similar to God's yeah. They've just never been shown to be such, even way back since Season 2 with Chrysalis beating Celestia.

[FemaleIntrovert1995 138]

1 hour ago, RareBase said:

Overbearing parents? Maybe, or no parents, so nopony to comfort her and help her make new friends after Sunburst left, or neglectful parents who just don't care.

They might be similar to God's yeah. They've just never been shown to be such, even way back since Season 2 with Chrysalis beating Celestia.

I agree, with you there. Starlight having neglectful parents or having none, fits the storyline better. 

Now I'm starting to question if they're gods or not. 

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

10 minutes ago, FemaleIntrovert1995 said:

Now I'm starting to question if they're gods or not. 

Well, compared to us they'd seem like Gods. Incredibly long life-spans/Immortality combined with magical power capable of moving Celestial bodies like the Sun and Moon, or even warping reality? No wonder that'd give the impression of a God.

But compared to the world around them, they've each been shown to be just as vulnerable as anypony else. Getting captured, harmed, sick, drained of magic, etc. The long life-span isn't too impressive, dragons have that too, and if they are immortal...So what? Plenty of things are immortal in fiction, not necessarily all of them are God's. They can move the Sun and Moon all on their own, but a team of Unicorns also can do that. Them doing it all on their own is the impressive part, but them being able to do it in the first place isn't unique to them.

 They've never even been called God's either. Discord is typically described as a "Spirit". If they are "Gods" then the MLP version of that idea isn't particularly impressive.

[FemaleIntrovert1995 138]

4 hours ago, RareBase said:

Well, compared to us they'd seem like Gods. Incredibly long life-spans/Immortality combined with magical power capable of moving Celestial bodies like the Sun and Moon, or even warping reality? No wonder that'd give the impression of a God.

But compared to the world around them, they've each been shown to be just as vulnerable as anypony else. Getting captured, harmed, sick, drained of magic, etc. The long life-span isn't too impressive, dragons have that too, and if they are immortal...So what? Plenty of things are immortal in fiction, not necessarily all of them are God's. They can move the Sun and Moon all on their own, but a team of Unicorns also can do that. Them doing it all on their own is the impressive part, but them being able to do it in the first place isn't unique to them.

 They've never even been called God's either. Discord is typically described as a "Spirit". If they are "Gods" then the MLP version of that idea isn't particularly impressive.

You have a point there. Thank you for sharing. 

[Phirun Natela 77]

She was disgusted he couldn’t tell the difference between lemonade and limeade.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Phirun Natela

[Jeric 46,860]

On 2017-05-29 at 12:38 AM, Phirun Natela said:

Discord was never sick, he played it all just to fuck with Twilight and Cadance because he's a douche. Tirek had a shit ton of magic combined, it's logical he was now stronger than Discord. Chrysalis is Celestia level of "godlike status" so it isn't weird she got some macguffin for the plot and to keep magic out. Just the fact that it was a macguffin that does exist..

I believe his point was akin to the "There is always someone stronger" quote. And for fiction that person is and always will be the writer.

As far as Starlight's skill at casting spells, I submit to you all the line and tone in which she points out that the Cutie Marks change back, and then ask yourself what the purpose of that line and delivery is?  

 

[Phirun Natela 77]

She tilted her head back and let whip cream stream into her mouth while taking a bath.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Phirun Natela

[heavens-champion 1,905]

It's almost like how people kept complaining about Twilight stealing the spotlight, from what I've seen.

[Phirun Natela 77]

The clouds formed beautiful animals in the sky that eventually created a tornado to wreak havoc.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Phirun Natela

[heavens-champion 1,905]

On 2017-05-29 at 1:03 AM, Phirun Natela said:

She kinda was in earlier seasons.. not that im complaining.

Honestly, I kinda miss her being the center of attention. At least she got some spotlight in the Season 7 premiere.

[Jeric 46,860]

On 2017-05-29 at 12:54 AM, Phirun Natela said:

I'm most likely an idiot, but your point is?

You gotta tease it out. The internet is a phenomenal communication medium that tends to limit thoughtful contemplation since many people simply say what they mean. It definitely helps the respondent in formulating a rebuttal, but not in the critical thinking processes. Waiting to speak/type vs actively listening/reading ... is a thing online. 

I try and reduce that possibility by not debating ... and offering an approach to communication that encourages a person to consider context and research.

My point is there if you choose to explore what I said. =D 

 

[GrimGrimoire 4,973]

16 hours ago, FemaleIntrovert1995 said:

I don't hate Starlight Glimmer, but she's not my top ten favorite characters either. I'm fickle with her, so I tend to leave her alone. I just hope she doesn't turn into an Alicorn, and if she does: 

Pretty much this. I really don't want her to become an alicorn since we have enough of them already. Alicorns are supposed to be something different and unique, and becoming one is supposed to be a big deal. Sure Starlight is powerful and all, but if power alone is the reason for becoming an alicorn, then we should have a hell of a lot more of them i would think, unless it is being suggested only Twi and Star are/were powerful unicorns. There are other things they could do with her character just as meaningful if not more so in my opinion without having to turn to the easy way out of just BOOM--- Star-alicorn. That would be truly lazy writing in my opinion,

[Goat-kun 2,528]

It is nearly impossible to establish a canon character as a Mary Sue, especially within a fandom. However, it is wrong to assume that Mary Sue cannot have a reasonable background for an unreasonable character. I suppose one could be hard-pressed to find a modern Mary Sue that doesn't have all sorts of psychological and physical restrictions tacked on. The fight between Mary Sue writers and critics is like an ever-evolving arms race.

 

One could say that the accusation of Mary Sue these days is not so much about power but about the consistent favorability of irrational outcomes and opinions of other characters. Then even if a character cannot be called a Mary Sue due to external circumstances, the whole premise can still be called shitty writing.

[FemaleIntrovert1995 138]

15 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

It is nearly impossible to establish a canon character as a Mary Sue, especially within a fandom. However, it is wrong to assume that Mary Sue cannot have a reasonable background for an unreasonable character. I suppose one could be hard-pressed to find a modern Mary Sue that doesn't have all sorts of psychological and physical restrictions tacked on. The fight between Mary Sue writers and critics is like an ever-evolving arms race.

 

 

 

One could say that the accusation of Mary Sue these days is not so much about power but about the consistent favorability of irrational outcomes and opinions of other characters. Then even if a character cannot be called a Mary Sue due to external circumstances, the whole premise can still be called shitty writing.

Belle Swan is a Mary Sue.

Chloe from The Fairy-odd-Parents is a Mary Sue. 

Itachi Uchiha is right at that line of being a Garry Stue.  

They are all canon characters. 

I learned that lesson, I learned you can't judge a character by their appearance or superpowers. Why do you think I typed,

"with all of these things in mind, I assumed Starlight Glimmer was a Mary Sue. However, I'm wrong, I'm dead wrong."

I can't tell if you're addressing this issue to the public, or trying to make me look stupid...

I'm not being mean, I don't understand your point of view. I blame my light Asperger's syndrome. 

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

On 2017-05-29 at 12:38 AM, Phirun Natela said:

Discord was never sick, he played it all just to fuck with Twilight and Cadance because he's a douche. Tirek had a shit ton of magic combined, it's logical he was now stronger than Discord. Chrysalis is Celestia level of "godlike status" so it isn't weird she got some macguffin for the plot and to keep magic out. Just the fact that it was a macguffin that does exist..

I meant the ending where Discord got sick from the Tatzlwurm on my first point.

[Goat-kun 2,528]

42 minutes ago, FemaleIntrovert1995 said:

Belle Swan is a Mary Sue.

Chloe from The Fairy-odd-Parents is a Mary Sue. 

Itachi Uchiha is right at that line of being a Garry Stue.  

They are all canon characters. 

I learned that lesson, I learned you can't judge a character by their appearance or superpowers. Why do you think I typed,

"with all of these things in mind, I assumed Starlight Glimmer was a Mary Sue. However, I'm wrong, I'm dead wrong."

I can't tell if you're addressing this issue to the public, or trying to make me look stupid...

I'm not being mean, I don't understand your point of view. I blame my light Asperger's syndrome. 

This was just my roundabout way of challenging the established narrative within this thread without attracting too much attention. See, accusing a canon show character within a fandom of said show can get a little rough. Well, looks like the cat is out of the bag, so let's get dangerous!

 

I don't think you were wrong when you assumed Starlight is a Mary Sue. I didn't say you can't judge a character by their power. I said you cannot judge a Sue by her power but by outcome. Everyone and their grandmother are adding things like anxiety and depression to their Sues. Portraying Mary Sue as a wreck is the oldest trick in fanfiction.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

in all honesty, Starlight i proven to be a contradiction from her very first debut. In the village where she oppressed ponies from their cutie marks, Sugar Belle asks "why did you take ours (cutie marks) and not give up your own?" to which SG replies "I had to, you fools! How could I collect your cutie marks without my magic?"

This ties in with her "tragic past" where Sunburst got her cutie mark before her, which triggered her so called philosophy that cutie marks are evil and everyone should be equal. had she really believed that, then she wouldn't have polished her magic to the point where it was- which was HER special talent, in the season 5 premier, and she wouldn't have stolen the others' cutie marks, had she believed that cutie marks were the source of evil, because at the end of the day, she kept hers, meaning she didn't believe her special talents were the problem she had made cutie marks out to be.

 

Starlight was- and still is a liar who can't be trusted, because she still very aggressively puts her magic first in solving a problem, and doing so still causes harm and imbalance to other ponies

[Phirun Natela 77]

Edith could decide if she should paint her teeth or brush her nails.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Phirun Natela

[Goat-kun 2,528]

Think about it: how many times have you see this character display her negative traits yet still be the hero of the entire episode? How many times did those traits actually elevate the owner or were used to make fun of other characters?

 

 

Contrast this with Luna and Twilight. When they display their negative traits they need help from other ponies or those traits actually serve to make fun of them.

[RulesofRarity 493]

I'm honestly not a fan of Starlight Glimmer. I didn't like her as a villain and certainly don't like her reformed either. I have two major problems with her, the first being that she received essentially no punishment for enslaving a village and almost dooming Equestria via time travel magic. Twilight and others just forgive her and they move on despite this however Starlight keeps constantly bringing up her past even though everyone has forgiven her, at times it feels like Starlight is essentially begging to be punished.

Secondly, I believe Starlight is pretty overpowered to the point she overshadows Twilight's magic capabilities. Starlight can teleport, fly, can use speed spells, can duplicate herself and can use mind control. I was pretty pissed when she was essentially humiliating Twilight during the Season 5 finale because it made absolutely no sense. The magic of 4 alicorns was enough to rival all magic in Equestria including Discord's! But now one alicorn(who happens to be the physical embodiment of magic) can't defeat a magically gifted unicorn. I was really hoping for an explanation(like Starlight being related to Star Swirl the Bearded) but we got nothing.

I thought she was decent in A Royal Problem however she seriously needs to learn how to sort out of friendship problems without her magic.

Edited June 2, 2017 by RulesofRarity