Character regression?

[ManaMinori 4,145]

Lateley, I have been finding myself cringing at certain episode scenes at this late in the franchise, because I feel like there are tings some of the more developed cast should've worked past by now. Two examples come to mind- Twilight's freakouts, which we recently saw in 'A Royal Problem', and 'Celestial Advice', and Spike's crush on Rarity, most recently seen in Starlight and Maud's episode.

 

Twilight shouldn't be freaking out in situations that she can't control. Not after she was shown Cadance's breathing technique, and had been able to keep a level head both in 'Twilight's Kingdom' in giving orders to the guards after the royal sisters went missing, and during the mkx up in 'Games Ponies Play'.

 

Spike, on the other claw,  still has been written as crushing on Rarity,  which he has had since the first episode. This has been milked for far too long, and I see it as regression because after the events of 'inspiration Manifestation' and the moral about Spike not needing to be aftraid of telling his 'friend' how he feels, the issue of the crush should have been dealt with, in keeping to that moral, shortly afterward. But it hasn't,  and Spike hasn't grown in that area since then, in spite of what grander accomplishments he has gone through. 

Do you guys see these examples as character assasination/retconning and regression? 

 

 

[They call me Loyalty 1,949]

I think those are characteristic traits, of both. And to get rid of them, while providing a sense of maturing, would be detrimental to the enjoyment of the show.

It's possible to introduce development, without steralizing a character. This is achieved by adding new characteristics, while also keeping the flaws as subconscious reasons, or triggers, for the newly adquired traits.

Working around imperfection, makes for a good written character in my view.

So twilight being paranoid, is good. And spike having the hots for rarity, even better.

[Star Gear 18]

The thing about twilight is that she works best in the moment. Like with the guards she didn't have time to think and just acted. However when you give her time to think she starts to panic because she thinks about all that could possibly go wrong (I have the same problem). That's a flaw you don't overcome with one lesson. Also in 'A Royal Problem' even starlight panics, unsure if she did the right thing. Also in 'Celestial Advice', that was Discord messing with her by making her doubt about what to do next with starlight. Twilights panics are a core part of her character that isn't easily overcome.

Now when it comes to spikes character. The moral of 'Inspiration Manifestation' was more about not being afraid of critiquing your friends. And to be honest I doubt that he has a chance with rarity and he knows that. Thats why he doesn't tell her. He seems to believe that he doesn't have a chance with her (I know this feeling really well). 

As for character regression itself. Well the show needs characters to be at their worst to be able to learn how to do better. And that does mirror real life. In real life learning a lesson once is often not enough to really go through with it. We have to learn them over and over again. And sometimes we do regress.

[Megas 27,811]

Twilight freaking out is Twilight being Twilight. She wouldn't be the same without it. I wouldn't call it regression

As for Spike, it's less regression and more that they still think the "Spike has a crush on Rarity" joke is still funny, but at this point it's just kind of sad.

[Thrond 3,263]

Twilight freaking out is one of the main things which makes her entertaining and relatable. If you removed that, you've not really got much left, and seasons 4 through 6 have no shortage of examples of Twilight losing that anxiety and becoming dull as a consequence. That she's returning to overthinking things and panicking is entirely a good thing in my eyes; season 7 has treated her better than any season since maybe 2. 

Spike, though, is a bit more arguable. It really did seem like he was moving on from the whole crush thing, so it does seem a little like he should have moved past it, and the joke is pretty tired by this point anyway. 

With that said, "character assassination" is way overstating it, especially for Twilight, who if anything is having her character resurrected, and I don't even think the more blatant incidents of a character acting oddly are "retcons." Regression? Maybe for Spike a little, but definitely not for Twilight, I'd say. 

[ManaMinori 4,145]

9 hours ago, Whompy Whomperson said:

Twilight freaking out is Twilight being Twilight. She wouldn't be the same without it. I wouldn't call it regression

As for Spike, it's less regression and more that they still think the "Spike has a crush on Rarity" joke is still funny, but at this point it's just kind of sad.

so having her learning to becalm and level-headed, as taught by Cadance, and seen in the aforementioned episodes in the op- what was THAT for, if not to apply in times of "impending freakout" moments?

[Thrond 3,263]

2 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

so having her learning to becalm and level-headed, as taught by Cadance, and seen in the aforementioned episodes in the op- what was THAT for, if not to apply in times of "impending freakout" moments?

From personal experience, I can tell you that it doesn't always work, and one might not remember to do it at all. 

[Pasha Florence 41]

I think the most regression has happened with Pinkie, to be honest. We haven't seen her change much from S1, and I believe that Twilight's freakouts could possibly hint at an underlying mental issue, though I doubt t's included in the show.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Pasha Florence

[Ganondorf8 11,401]

Twilight's freak-outs are one of her more eccentric qualities that a lot of people can relate to. Sure, she's learned that breathing technique but it might not always been useful when dealing with certain situations. To have Twilight stop doing that would take away an important aspect of her character. She may be a princess but she is fallible just like everyone else and is prone to certain reactions. Spike is in the same boat when it comes to his crush on Rarity. It's one of his qualities that makes him stand out and while it hasn't gone anywhere for the obvious reasons, it's still good for some hilarious scenes even when Spike ends up on the receiving end of things.

[Megas 27,811]

3 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

so having her learning to becalm and level-headed, as taught by Cadance, and seen in the aforementioned episodes in the op- what was THAT for, if not to apply in times of "impending freakout" moments?

That was....Twilight being Twilight, we've always seen that she has a tendency to freakout over very small things and this is no different. She's learned not to take things out of control, but that tendency is still in there

Honestly it just looks like you're looking for something to complain for the sake of it

Edited May 30, 2017 by Whompy Whomperson

[cmarston1 5,959]

At this point in time, Spike's crush on Rarity is worn out and honestly should be put to rest.

[Phirun Natela 77]

If any cop asks you where you were, just say you were visiting Kansas.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Phirun Natela

[FlareGun45 2,221]

On 2017-05-30 at 5:06 PM, Phirun Natela said:

This. I can't roll my eyes and slam my face on the table harder when I still see scenes like this. It's just sad, not funny, way too overdue and it makes Spike a lot creepier and Rarity a lot more like a dick than it needs to. They still think it's funny even though it makes zero sense anymore. Spike is around 18 in pony years now and should've grown out of it himself. 

It should really be put to rest with a heartfelt conversation, not make it a big sob-story, just make it comforting and resolve the issue. Just like in the Big Mac episode where he's the distant girl cousin.

This doesn't need to make his character more bland, I think it's actually better, it will open up more background/episode appearances for him and he can strengthen his friendship with the Mane 6, (Excluding Twilight and Rarity of course.) as he tries to do different things with his friends other than be Twilight's assistant and Rarity using the power of boners for the work she doesn't want to do. It actually really made me hate Rarity that she could be so dense, or not and just wants a little slave for almost no "payment."

This will probably never happen, since it's way easier for them to shoehorn Spike with Rarity if they need him to do something / be somewhere and have a 'joke' than do what I just said. 

You're so pessimistic, brah! Yes you're right, Spike is lacking these, but the writers will come to sense sometime in the future. Keep trying to contact Hasbro, DHX, and/or Discovery, and just like Derpy, this will be taken into account! We can't just sit around patiently anymore, we tried. Now it's time we complain in a childlike and threatening manner! >:D

Kidding about that last part! Just write a professional and mature email to them and hope for the best!

[Phirun Natela 77]

If any cop asks you where you were, just say you were visiting Kansas.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Phirun Natela

[Jeric 46,861]

On 2017-05-29 at 11:31 PM, AlexanderThrond said:

Twilight freaking out is one of the main things which makes her entertaining and relatable

This.

 

....

 

 

Twilight's anxiety covers a gamut of scenarios and makes her simply a treat to watch when she goes all 'worry wart'. It's a trait in her, one that she will have in some form for the rest of her life, and battle with varying degrees of success. Regression would be having her pull a Lesson Zero style error in judgement. That we shouldn't see again. 

I'm completely on board with the death of Spike's crush on Rares. It's long past time allow him to outgrow it. And it isn't regression, just something that is keeping him partially stuck in neutral. 

On 2017-05-30 at 5:38 PM, Phirun Natela said:

And you're WAY too faithful in Hasbro listening to you. It won't happen unless enough people contact them. And that just won't happen for obvious reasons.

Hasbro would not have an issue either way on ending the crush. DHX would have no problem getting approval for that. It's not taboo and won't interfere with merchandising. 

As far as DHX, they visit fan sites and actively communicate with the fan base, and depending on the fan, have little issue discussing certain themes about the show one on one. They rarely give spoilers and will shut you down the moment you start with your own 'story ideas'. It also helps if you have a background and demographic that is ... different than most Bronies. 

That said, psychology aside and awareness aside, DHX staff are careful to make story decisions based on how they feel the show should progress. To say that decision occurs in a vacuum devoid of all influence from fans ... well ... it is just poppycock. They know what we want and don't want, and if interests align they align. If not they don't. 

[Phirun Natela 77]

Despite what your teacher may have told you, there is a wrong way to wield a lasso.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Phirun Natela

[Jeric 46,861]

On 2017-05-30 at 6:41 PM, Phirun Natela said:

Your point exactly? It's sort off the same what I said, if not enough people contact them they won't do anything. And knowing this fandom, not enough people will regarding this subject. 

You implied people have to contact them (them being Hasbro). I assure you, they don't. They also don't need to contact DHX en masse. The fun thing about the internet is that fans of an IP usually discuss their views in a public manner. Why? Because by gum we love to hear ourselves 'talk'. The fun thing about studios and corporations is they have this thing called market and opinion data analysis. 

My point was, "you're wrong." I was just being polite, because it's what I do. 

On 2017-05-30 at 6:41 PM, Phirun Natela said:

Not exactly something to you, but I think if they find this still proper after 7 Seasons and haven't changed it themselves, it's pretty safe to assume the interests don't align. Especially if they worked so hard to fix Spike in S6 and didn't address this at all.

You appear to be conflating here, but irrespective of that, it's important to understand just because they haven't aired an episode addressing it, doesn't mean they won't. The fact that they continue with it could show that they are purposely keeping it fresh in our minds until they want this aspect addressed on screen. 

[Phirun Natela 77]

I am my aunt's sister's daughter.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Phirun Natela