Why Console gaming is dying and why PC or Steam gaming is the future

[Photon Jet 5,490]

15 minutes ago, Discordian said:

It's actually good for two sides to argue about something. If not for the ones butting heads but for anyone who reads it. They can learn, they can find someone that agrees with them, or they can generally expand their knowledge on the subject using both sides.

Yes, but ponies like me don't want to have these discussions lead themselves to complete controversy as we know what usually happens if a discussion goes too far.

I'm more of a console gamer than a PC gamer myself but I don't mind those who would prefer playing on PC. After all, we like what we like to play. Another thing to mention is, there are video games that can play on both the console and the PC. Some of these examples are Robot Wars: Extreme Destruction, Portal 2, Overwatch, Rocket League and South Park: The Stick of Truth.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Photon Jet

[Catpone Cerberus 23,555]

Just now, Discordian said:

As Celli said, a PS4 and Xbox One might be for all intents and purposes a weaker computer but it's still adequate for the purpose of playing games.

Yes that's true and even if I'm not fan of consoles anymore, everyone can play what they feel is best to them. Both consoles and PCs has their problems. But I just wanted to add that because many console players seem think that computer is this super complicated malware-nest when it's really not. 

[Celli 4,336]

4 minutes ago, Envy said:

You took that in a completely different direction from what I was meaning. II don't have to do extensive research. If I have to do extensive research to see that PC gamers are not at large elitists, than there's still a problem here, because this forum is constantly pelted with topics and posts about how much better PC gaming is. I'm annoyed by that, it is an issue

I'm just saying that sure, this forum has a few elitists, but outside of here, most communities have PC gamers who aren't elitists. Also, I didn't mean to say extensive research. You don't have to look far. I wouldn't use this forum as an example for elitists, because it's already got a problem with other types of people. Outside of here, there's the PC subreddit, various forums, blogs, etc, that are very helpful. Also, PC has various hardware brands and whatnot, some good, some not, of course it's going to confusing, but not complicated. You just have to look into which brands are good.

Also, I'd argue modern consoles are not as simple as people say. For one you can't just turn it on and pop a game in. The constant updates and new complexity are why modern consoles lost what gave consoles their edge over PCs.

4 minutes ago, Discordian said:

As Celli said, a PS4 and Xbox One might be for all intents and purposes a weaker computer but it's still adequate for the purpose of playing games.

The new consoles aren't as simple anymore though.

Also, I dunno about you, but when I had a PS4, the update took at least half an hour.

[Jeric 46,848]

38 minutes ago, Celli said:

Not true. Modern consoles have various issues today, those updates, aren't as small as you think. When you want to play a game, you have to install it to the HDD, so it's a lot like PCs in a sense, and actually, that's what modern consoles are, weaker PCs. And they don't always work out of the box. And if you have a problem with it, gotta send it to the manufacturer, with PC, just replace the bad hardware and you're good.

I agree that account set-up and version upgrades do chip at the "out of the box" argument a little. However, it is still faster than a new PC set up. Hardware failures are, by and large, not an issue so it's still an allowable argument to suggest that consoles are more user friendly out of the box. That said, the gap is smaller than it was years ago.

The failure rate of a PS4 and XBox One is really low, which is really my biggesr issue with that part of your argument. 

4 minutes ago, Celli said:

The new consoles aren't as simple anymore though.

Create an algorithm for console setup and do the same for a pre-built PC on the shelves for a few months. (This is how I think, I break down everything in steps). One of those has less steps than the other. Each step also takes slightly less time.

[Celli 4,336]

Just now, Jeric said:

I agree that account set-up and version upgrades do chip at the "out of the box" argument a little. However, it is still faster than a new PC set up. Hardware failures are, by and large, not an issue so it's still an allowable argument to suggest that consoles are more user friendly out of the box. That said, the gap is smaller than it was years ago.

The failure rate of a PS4 and XBox One is really low, which is really my biggesr issue with that part of your argument. 

But if you do have a hardware issue, you can't fix it yourself, and especially if you happen to get it after a warranty has expired. Not so with PC. When I had a PS4, it took me an hour before I was able to play a game. That doesn't seem that simple.

https://www.howtogeek.com/241691/gaming-consoles-arent-plug-and-play-anymore.-theyre-a-hassle-just-like-pcs/

I think this explains everything wrong with modern day consoles.

[Envy 6,122]

2 minutes ago, Celli said:

Also, I'd argue modern consoles are not as simple as people say. For one you can't just turn it on and pop a game in. The constant updates and new complexity are why modern consoles lost what gave consoles their edge over PCs.

The new consoles aren't as simple anymore though.

I'm not sure I even understand what you're talking about. I put a disc in my PS4 and I can play. I haven't played too many PS4 games, but whether or not they are "installed" like a PC, it doesn't matter to me. Installation is not where the complexity resides. It resides in what I mentioned in my previous post. That PC games are very often poorly optimized like The Sims 3 and that you need to do so much more to get the game running properly on the PC, rather than just simply installing it.

Like I'm supposed to find some sort of method to limit my FPS. Apparently nVidia has that built into their software, but Radeon (which is what I have) doesn't. Either way, I'm dealing with some software independent of the game to ensure that the game doesn't fry my PC that I spent so much money on.

I'm completely freaked out and stressed out about it, because as I mentioned previously, the option I've seen that is simplest is on a site that my antivirus tells me to avoid and when I try to find some other way to do it, it's complicated and I have no idea what I'm doing.

These issues don't happen with a console. I just put the game in, and I can play it without worrying about all of this. It's so nice. I just want to play my games, that's all. PC gaming is such a headache.

[Celli 4,336]

1 minute ago, Envy said:

I'm not sure I even understand what you're talking about. I put a disc in my PS4 and I can play. I haven't played too many PS4 games, but whether or not they are "installed" like a PC, it doesn't matter to me. Installation is not where the complexity resides. It resides in what I mentioned in my previous post. That PC games are very often poorly optimized like The Sims 3 and that you need to do so much more to get the game running properly on the PC, rather than just simply installing it.

Like I'm supposed to find some sort of method to limit my FPS. Apparently nVidia has that built into their software, but Radeon (which is what I have) doesn't. Either way, I'm dealing with some software independent of the game to ensure that the game doesn't fry my PC that I spent so much money on.

I'm completely freaked out and stressed out about it, because as I mentioned previously, the option I've seen that is simplest is on a site that my antivirus tells me to avoid and when I try to find some other way to do it, it's complicated and I have no idea what I'm doing.

These issues don't happen with a console. I just put the game in, and I can play it without worrying about all of this. It's so nice. I just want to play my games, that's all. PC gaming is such a headache.

Um, isn't Sims 3 the only game you've played on PC?

Edited July 8, 2017 by Celli

[Envy 6,122]

Just now, Celli said:

Um, isn't Sims 3 the only game you've played on PC?

Not necessarily, I've played other The Sims games and Civlization IV and V.

While I was attempting to research what to do about this FPS limiter issue I saw people talking about how it was necessary for a variety of other popular PC games as well. So that's why I speak of it as a more general issue than The Sims 3.

[Jeric 46,848]

4 minutes ago, Celli said:

But if you do have a hardware issue, you can't fix it yourself, and especially if you happen to get it after a warranty has expired. Not so with PC. When I had a PS4, it took me an hour before I was able to play a game. That doesn't seem that simple.

https://www.howtogeek.com/241691/gaming-consoles-arent-plug-and-play-anymore.-theyre-a-hassle-just-like-pcs/

I think this explains everything wrong with modern day consoles.

Always a bad idea to base opinions from data outliers. Like I said, the gap is closer, but ease of set-up still favors the consoles if all other variables are brought into line. 

It may be worth pointing out I spend far more time in PC and Mac hardware than I do consoles, so I tend to favor them more ... but not at the expense of my own experiences with setting up a wide variety of rigs each year. 

[Celli 4,336]

Just now, Envy said:

Not necessarily, I've played other The Sims games and Civlization IV and V.

While I was attempting to research what to do about this FPS limiter issue I saw people talking about how it was necessary for a variety of other popular PC games as well. So that's why I speak of it as a more general issue than The Sims 3.

Well, Civ IV and V aren't very demanding games, and EA has a problem with optimizing most of their games on PC. Sims, Simcity 2013, etc. 

And that's still a rather small number of PC games to have played, and not enough to say that PC games as a whole are poorly optimized.

2 minutes ago, Jeric said:

Always a bad idea to base opinions from data outliers. Like I said, the gap is closer, but ease of set-up still favors the consoles if all other variables are brought into line. 

That article is well researched and very accurate of the experience I had with my PS4.

[Reose 4]

35 minutes ago, Jeric said:

It failed eventually, but it wasn't a failed system. The home gaming industry was in it's infancy so they had a LOT to learn, but from a revenue and installed user base metric, it is hard to justify the VCS as a failed system. 

The NES was massive in the US because of an almost flawless marketing strategy. As far as your DOS vs NES point, that is likely the biggest apples to oranges comparison that exists in gaming platforms that share an era. I can sing the praises of Tandy CoCo, C64, and Amiga ... but by and large home computing and game development of that area had a wholly different development paradigm than consoles that handicapped the quality of some games. The console developers knew how to use the hardware in creative ways that many PC game developers struggled with, mostly because of the need for parity and accessibility. 

Things obviously changed in the early 90's (see Kings Quest V). 

Talk about memory lane! I remember when SVGA was a new thing XD

 

Well i fail to see what is so special about the NES. King's Quest 1 was made in 1983, though the one on steam is the 1987 version but its basically the same and that one is very fun. Either so i found Zelda 1 just boring and i just dont see whats so great about NES in general, except Mario.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Reose

[Envy 6,122]

4 minutes ago, Celli said:

Well, Civ IV and V aren't very demanding games, and EA has a problem with optimizing most of their games on PC. Sims, Simcity 2013, etc. 

And that's still a rather small number of PC games to have played, and not enough to say that PC games as a whole are poorly optimized.

I know that Civ IV and V aren't very demanding. I played them with few issues on my older PCs which were not gaming PCs at all. I'm not speaking of them. I haven't played anything aside from The Sims 3 on my current PC, anyway.

The word I said was "oftentimes". I think that is fair to say. And considering it's as big of an issue as going beyond merely performing poorly to frying my PC, I'd say it's a pretty big deal. The Sims is a series that a lot of casual PC owners like me play, too, which just makes it all of the worse. I don't deal with these issues on a console.

[Celli 4,336]

2 minutes ago, Envy said:

I know that Civ IV and V aren't very demanding. I played them with few issues on my older PCs which were not gaming PCs at all. I'm not speaking of them. I haven't played anything aside from The Sims 3 on my current PC, anyway.

The word I said was "oftentimes". I think that is fair to say. And considering it's as big of an issue as going beyond merely performing poorly to frying my PC, I'd say it's a pretty big deal. The Sims is a series that a lot of casual PC owners like me play, too, which just makes it all of the worse. I don't deal with these issues on a console.

Well, I disagree. I've gamed on PC enough to know that most of the time, games are well optimized. Just saying you can't base all of PC gaming as "poorly optimized" off one game. Like I said, I have a lot of experience, so I think I know what I'm talking about. 

Edited July 8, 2017 by Celli

[Envy 6,122]

7 minutes ago, Celli said:

Well, I disagree. I've gamed on PC enough to know that most of the time, games are well optimized. Just saying you can't base all of PC gaming as "poorly optimized" off one game. Like I said, I have a lot of experience, so I think I know what I'm talking about. 

I may be only able to base it off of one game by personal experience, but as I said, while I was looking around, I saw other people speaking of the FPS limiter being necessary for other titles, not just The Sims 3. Apparently, it's enough of an issue that it has been addressed by nVidia in their software. But because I'm an ATI Radeon card owner, I need to find something else to do it? I don't know what I'm doing.

And another point is... I just want to play The Sims. I shouldn't have to delve into all of this just play The Sims, which I'm sure the PC gaming community considers a casual game.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Envy

[Celli 4,336]

8 minutes ago, Envy said:

And another point is... I just want to play The Sims. I shouldn't have to delve into all of this just play The Sims, which I'm sure the PC gaming community considers a casual game

Well, why don't you just play The Sims on console? I'm sure you have a PS3 or a Wii, and those have Sims 3. I'd suggest Sims 4, but that's a PC exclusive, and I think I remember you say it didn't look as good.

[Discordian 6,015]

44 minutes ago, Photon Jet said:

Yes, but ponies like me don't want to have these discussions lead themselves to complete controversy as we know what usually happens if a discussion goes too far.

I'm more of a console gamer than a PC gamer myself but I don't mind those who would prefer playing on PC. After all, we like what we like to play. Another thing to mention is, there are video games that can play on both the console and the PC. Some of these examples are Robot Wars: Extreme Destruction, Portal 2, Overwatch, Rocket League and South Park: The Stick of Truth.

You can just as easily be a casual observer and not get into the bigger arguments to save yourself the frustration. Personally, I love to argue. Gets the brain some exercise.

 

As far as a discussion going "too far" that doesn't usually happen for me. Insults are irrelevant to a discussion so even when they are flung around they're just as easily ignored. The trick is to not let yourself get goaded when vitriol is thrown around and stick to the actual points of the discussion.

 

I hold no ill will toward people I disagree with, even if I disagree vehemently. Life would be boring if we all agreed on everything.

42 minutes ago, Celli said:

I'm just saying that sure, this forum has a few elitists, but outside of here, most communities have PC gamers who aren't elitists. Also, I didn't mean to say extensive research. You don't have to look far. I wouldn't use this forum as an example for elitists, because it's already got a problem with other types of people. Outside of here, there's the PC subreddit, various forums, blogs, etc, that are very helpful. Also, PC has various hardware brands and whatnot, some good, some not, of course it's going to confusing, but not complicated. You just have to look into which brands are good.

Also, I'd argue modern consoles are not as simple as people say. For one you can't just turn it on and pop a game in. The constant updates and new complexity are why modern consoles lost what gave consoles their edge over PCs.

The new consoles aren't as simple anymore though.

Also, I dunno about you, but when I had a PS4, the update took at least half an hour.

If you're talking about the initial update then of course it's going to take a bit more time than most other updates. It's applying multiple layers of updates rather than just the latest one. Thirty minutes is almost no time at all.

 

As I said, if you're worried about the "constant updates" then just set your console to accept and install those updates while the system is in sleep mode. It will all be done before you ever get back to it.

 

If you get a new game then it's just as easy to plug that game into your console to get an update started before you go to work or something and it's ready when you get home. That also really only applies to installs too which usually take seconds. You can play without a patch when you turn the game on.

36 minutes ago, Celli said:

But if you do have a hardware issue, you can't fix it yourself, and especially if you happen to get it after a warranty has expired. Not so with PC. When I had a PS4, it took me an hour before I was able to play a game. That doesn't seem that simple.

https://www.howtogeek.com/241691/gaming-consoles-arent-plug-and-play-anymore.-theyre-a-hassle-just-like-pcs/

I think this explains everything wrong with modern day consoles.

What's the actual difference between fixing hardware yourself and sending it to the manufacturer though? You're still going to be going without the system for awhile until it gets fixed.

[Celli 4,336]

Just now, Discordian said:

What's the actual difference between fixing hardware yourself and sending it to the manufacturer though? You're still going to be going without the system for awhile until it gets fixed.

Well, on a PC if there's a problem with a part, you can try to diagnose the problem yourself, and fix it, which doesn't require you to be without your PC, and if you have to replace a part, your PC is still usable, say if your GPU fries, you can take it out and replace it, and you can still use your PC without it, or if you need to replace RAM, same thing. With a console, you have to send the entire thing in, and can't use it.

[Celestial Panzerhund 289]

I feel like Reose is between Troll and PC fanboys just by the way he's writing...

Just felt like posting here to show some gif and to see whos on what side.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Celestial Panzerhund

[Envy 6,122]

10 minutes ago, Celli said:

Well, why don't you just play The Sims on console? I'm sure you have a PS3 or a Wii, and those have Sims 3. I'd suggest Sims 4, but that's a PC exclusive, and I think I remember you say it didn't look as good.

The Sims games on consoles are vastly inferior to the The Sims games on PC/Mac. There's no getting around it. The Sims 4 PC is actually a lot like a console The Sims game. It's so watered down as opposed to The Sims 3, but even still The Sims 4 has the capacity for Expansion Packs, custom content, and mods which will still make it preferable over a console version (even though the base game is so badly watered down, there's no way it will ever compare to The Sims 3).

Trust me, if The Sims could be just as good on console, I would be playing on console. When a game is multiplatform I will always buy it for a console I have. But The Sims is not actually multiplatform - The Sims console games are nothing like the PC/Mac versions. They are different games.

I just want to play the game I bought my PC for without worrying about it frying my PC. =(

[Celli 4,336]

1 minute ago, Envy said:

The Sims games on consoles are vastly inferior to the The Sims games on PC/Mac. There's no getting around it. The Sims 4 PC is actually a lot like a console The Sims game. It's so watered down as opposed to The Sims 3, but even still The Sims 4 has the capacity for Expansion Packs, custom content, and mods which will still make it preferable over a console version (even though the base game is so badly watered down, there's no way it will ever compare to The Sims 3).

Trust me, if The Sims could be just as good on console, I would be playing on console. When a game is multiplatform I will always buy it for a console I have. But The Sims is not actually multiplatform - The Sims console games are nothing like the PC/Mac versions. They are different games.

I just want to play the game I bought my PC for without worrying about it frying my PC. =(

Eh, alright, fair point. I will concede here.

[Discordian 6,015]

@CelliI suppose that is handy but at the same time hardware failure on a console is very rare. The original Xbox 360 was the only one particularly prone to failure and they've long since learned from that.

5 minutes ago, Celestial Panzerhund said:

I feel like Reose is between Troll and PC fanboys just by the way he's writing...

Just felt like posting here to show some gif and to see whos on what side.

In spite of what it might seem in this topic I'm actually on the Rarity side of things. Given another day I'm just as likely to fight for the PC against consoles.  

 

I'm in it for the games. The hardware is almost completely irrelevant.

[Celestial Panzerhund 289]

3 minutes ago, Discordian said:

I In spite of what it might seem in this topic I'm actually on the Rarity side of things. Given another day I'm just as likely to fight for the PC against consoles.  

 

I'm in it for the games. The hardware is almost completely irrelevant.

Same here (always on the Rarity side) I don't care what platform I play on, as long as the game is good, I'll play it for that. 

Edited July 8, 2017 by Celestial Panzerhund
My tablets a derp..

[Celli 4,336]

Just now, Discordian said:

@CelliI suppose that is handy but at the same time hardware failure on a console is very rare. The original Xbox 360 was the only one particularly prone to failure and they've long since learned from that.

True. And I will not deny that consoles do have reason to buy, and that is the first party exclusives on the systems, particularly Nintendo. Metroid is my favorite series and I can't get that on PC unless I emulate it, but downloading ROMs is illegal, and besides that, emulation isn't always going to work, anyway.

[Discordian 6,015]

Just now, Celli said:

True. And I will not deny that consoles do have reason to buy, and that is the first party exclusives on the systems, particularly Nintendo. Metroid is my favorite series and I can't get that on PC unless I emulate it, but downloading ROMs is illegal, and besides that, emulation isn't always going to work, anyway.

 

The newer the system, the harder to emulate too. Pretty sure there's not even a perfectly working PS2 emulator. For whatever reason it's extremely hardware intensive.

[Celli 4,336]

1 minute ago, Discordian said:

 

The newer the system, the harder to emulate too. Pretty sure there's not even a perfectly working PS2 emulator. For whatever reason it's extremely hardware intensive.

Actually, there is, but you pretty much need a decently beefy PC. Same with Gamecube.