Celestia and Luna's parents in Season 8

[twilightsparkle3562 145]

One episode I would like to see is an episode in season 8 that deals with Celestia and Luna's parents returning to Canterlot for a formal celebration in their honor.  How about it?

[StrawCherry 1,673]

Honestly, I'm not sure. Of course I'm curious about their parents, but part of me likes it to be a mystery like it is now. I kind of like the idea of them just... existing. Not so much having been born into this world, just created like the Earth is supposed to be.

[FlareGun45 2,221]

I'm more interested in Scoots' and Spike's parents to be honest, but princess parents wouldn't hurt!

[CypherHoof 26,483]

I don't imagine they are still alive.

Celestia and Luna were Starswirl's students, and we know from the show that Starswirl was around when Equestria was founded, but the unicorns were responsible for raising the sun and moon.

Celestia and Luna also apparently use unicorn magic to do this (at least, according to the intro to the very first episode) so it would make sense that the spell that uplifts a unicorn to an alicorn was used on both of them, possibly by starswirl.

Unless their parents were also uplifted and made immortal, they would have died over a thousand years ago.

[Steve Piranha 29,432]

I'm not looking forward to the princesses' parents as much as seeing the general expanded alicorn lore in the show. However, the father of their human counterparts was physically present in the book Wondercolts Forever, but no name nor description was given  

[ShootingStar159 2,157]

8 minutes ago, Steve Piranha said:

I'm not looking forward to the princesses' parents as much as seeing the general expanded alicorn lore in the show. However, the father of their human counterparts was physically present in the book Wondercolts Forever, but no name nor description was given  

I like to pretend human Celestia and Luna still control the sun and moon and are immortal, because as long EQG isn’t going to make sense, it can at least be cool and make sense. 

[CypherHoof 26,483]

1 hour ago, CypherHoof said:

I don't imagine they are still alive.

Celestia and Luna were Starswirl's students, and we know from the show that Starswirl was around when Equestria was founded, but the unicorns were responsible for raising the sun and moon.

Celestia and Luna also apparently use unicorn magic to do this (at least, according to the intro to the very first episode) so it would make sense that the spell that uplifts a unicorn to an alicorn was used on both of them, possibly by starswirl.

Unless their parents were also uplifted and made immortal, they would have died over a thousand years ago.

Of course, we could have Starswirl telling the story (so flashback time!) of how Celestia and Luna were chosen to become Alicorns, and their parents could be there then....

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,730]

Any additional backstory details are very welcome, though I personally am still waiting for that good royal sister bonding episode first. Sadly, I don't think we will get that now. At this point, I will take any further lore for the two. Their lore would help further Equestria's lore as well.

[Mirage 24,771]

1 hour ago, CypherHoof said:

I don't imagine they are still alive.

Celestia and Luna were Starswirl's students, and we know from the show that Starswirl was around when Equestria was founded, but the unicorns were responsible for raising the sun and moon.

Celestia and Luna also apparently use unicorn magic to do this (at least, according to the intro to the very first episode) so it would make sense that the spell that uplifts a unicorn to an alicorn was used on both of them, possibly by starswirl.

Unless their parents were also uplifted and made immortal, they would have died over a thousand years ago.

But why Luna and Celestia? And why sisters for these roles?

It seems that Starswirl was not in control of their destinies, but played a part in their education to control their power (not gain their power) and of course leadership.

If I was writing this history, Celestia and Luna would be part of a long chain of rulers who bequeath their power to chosen alicorn lines after they ascend into eternity (or whatever it might be). Let me add that it seems all alicorns are born unicorns, but not all unicorns are capable of becoming alicorns due to lineage. And alicorns, presumably live forever (at least, naturally, that is, they don't grow old). This would mean a visitation by Luna and Celestia's parents should be a spirit visit (ie, spirit beings).

If Luna and Celestia's parent are still alive in the 'natural' world but just live far away, I think the lore loses some credibility. It makes their struggles rather trivial. This is also true for Starswirl - if a mere unicorn created Celestia and Luna's roles and used a mere spell to make them into alicorns, then that's just not very well thought out either. It begs the question - where were their parents?

Perhaps they sided with the 'foals in a basket floating down the stream and discovered by Starswirl' angle. So Starswirl does some Twilight-esque research and finds out they are of an alicorn line destined to rule night and day - in order to instigate the reunion and harmony of Equestia...which was lost because...

The former alicorn line (Luna and Celestia's parents) were killed or left the natural world.

[ShootingStar159 2,157]

6 minutes ago, Mirage said:

But why Luna and Celestia? And why sisters for these roles?

It seems that Starswirl was not in control of their destinies, but played a part in their education to control their power (not gain their power) and of course leadership.

If I was writing this history, Celestia and Luna would be part of a long chain of rulers who bequeath their power to chosen alicorn lines after they ascend into eternity (or whatever it might be). Let me add that it seems all alicorns are born unicorns, but not all unicorns are capable of becoming alicorns due to lineage. And alicorns, presumably live forever (at least, naturally, that is, they don't grow old). This would mean a visitation by Luna and Celestia's parents should be a spirit visit (ie, spirit beings).

If Luna and Celestia's parent are still alive in the 'natural' world but just live far away, I think the lore loses some credibility. It makes their struggles rather trivial. This is also true for Starswirl - if a mere unicorn created Celestia and Luna's roles and used a mere spell to make them into alicorns, then that's just not very well thought out either. It begs the question - where were their parents?

Perhaps they sided with the 'foals in a basket floating down the stream and discovered by Starswirl' angle. So Starswirl does some Twilight-esque research and finds out they are of an alicorn line destined to rule night and day - in order to instigate the reunion and harmony of Equestia...which was lost because...

The former alicorn line (Luna and Celestia's parents) were killed or left the natural world.

I don’t know, I think that’s way too high fantasy for mlp, which has always struck me as more fairy tale than fantasy.

[Mirage 24,771]

2 minutes ago, ShootingStar159 said:

I don’t know, I think that’s way too high fantasy for mlp, which has always struck me as more fairy tale than fantasy.

I agree - but the only difference between a fairy tale and a fantasy is that a fairy tale has no world building...and MLP FiM definitely has elaborate world building. The show may never get that deep (Luna and Celestia's origins), and doesn't need to. So I'm not demanding anything, just brainstorming. 

 

[CypherHoof 26,483]

25 minutes ago, Mirage said:

But why Luna and Celestia? And why sisters for these roles?

It seems that Starswirl was not in control of their destinies, but played a part in their education to control their power (not gain their power) and of course leadership.

The whole cutie mark thing, yes - Starswirl may have found two unicorns, sisters, the "mark of whose destiny" were a sun and a moon, and whose magic seemed particularly well suited to the spells used to raise the sun and the moon by the unicorns. How he got from there though to the alicorns we know today, is a different matter.

 

25 minutes ago, Mirage said:

If I was writing this history, Celestia and Luna would be part of a long chain of rulers who bequeath their power to chosen alicorn lines after they ascend into eternity

Not sure that would work. From Hearth's Warming Eve we know pre-Equestria, unicorns raised the sun and the moon (and had always done so), and that Starswirl was around at the time. If there was a chain of rulers that were Alicorns, there would not have been the three ruler setup we saw in that episode, and the fractured society that presumably the Alicorn sisters united by being neither unicorn nor pegagus, but both. I think it more likely therefore that the whole "alicorn wings must be earned" thing is either spun out of whole cloth by Starswirl to justify the "princess" status of the sisters, after ascention, or was an old mare's tale Starswirl decided to make a reality. Of course, it could be a real historic tale that Starswirl researched the spell for, rather than inventing the spell for....

 

25 minutes ago, Mirage said:

(or whatever it might be). Let me add that it seems all alicorns are born unicorns, but not all unicorns are capable of becoming alicorns due to lineage. And alicorns, presumably live forever (at least, naturally, that is, they don't grow old). This would mean a visitation by Luna and Celestia's parents should be a spirit visit (ie, spirit beings).

Or a flashback, which would seem more likely. We don't seem to have ghosts (or death) much in FiM, which isn't surprising given the target age group. That they aren't around any more would fall under the same heading as Bright Mac and Buttercup, really...

 

25 minutes ago, Mirage said:

If Luna and Celestia's parent are still alive in the 'natural' world but just live far away, I think the lore loses some credibility. It makes their struggles rather trivial. This is also true for Starswirl - if a mere unicorn created Celestia and Luna's roles and used a mere spell to make them into alicorns, then that's just not very well thought out either. It begs the question - where were their parents?

Not sure it would be "a mere spell" - Starswirl was an Element after all, and the Element of Sorcery - it is possible that the spell required all six of the Pillars to achieve, just as the Mane 6 can use their Elements in unison to achieve things far beyond what even Celestia can do.

You could also consider the steps that led to Twi gaining her wings; it seems likely she was approaching Alicorn status gradually, acquiring the six qualities of an alicorn princess by her lessons in ponyville (as explained by Celestia after the fact) plus gaining the ability to use Alicorn magic by being taught by her mentor (she uses it in the Crystal Empire at the start of that season, after all). If Celestia and Luna had had to learn the same lessons in order to be eligible to gain wings (with some trial and error by Starswirl) and Celestia had already taught a young Cadence the same lessons, then it would make sense that gaining Alicorn status is a long and hard process, and still being refined by Celestia even after her long reign.

 

25 minutes ago, Mirage said:

Perhaps they sided with the 'foals in a basket floating down the stream and discovered by Starswirl' angle. So Starswirl does some Twilight-esque research and finds out they are of an alicorn line destined to rule night and day - in order to instigate the reunion and harmony of Equestia...which was lost because...

The former alicorn line (Luna and Celestia's parents) were killed or left the natural world.

I find the insight that Starswirl (and the pillars) created the Tree of Harmony and the elements quite interesting, and would lead you to believe that the power of the Pillars combined was at a higher level than even the Tree....

[Mirage 24,771]

19 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

Not sure that would work. From Hearth's Warming Eve we know pre-Equestria, unicorns raised the sun and the moon (and had always done so), and that Starswirl was around at the time. If there was a chain of rulers that were Alicorns, there would not have been the three ruler setup we saw in that episode, and the fractured society that presumably the Alicorn sisters united by being neither unicorn nor pegagus, but both. I think it more likely therefore that the whole "alicorn wings must be earned" thing is either spun out of whole cloth by Starswirl to justify the "princess" status of the sisters, after ascention, or was an old mare's tale Starswirl decided to make a reality. Of course, it could be a real historic tale that Starswirl researched the spell for, rather than inventing the spell for...

Remember that the tribal rule didn't work...which is why I suggested a void in the continuing line of ruling Alicorns. In fact, even when it 'sorta' worked, it was far from sustainable, which begs the question of how the ponies ever grew into the fragile societies they had in the first place. That history really feels like a 'country with no king' tale. If Starswirl, by whatever means, ensured that Luna and Celestia would rule gives this void more credence than to assume there was never an alicorn line that kept unity and harmony to some reasonable degree. Why work so hard for such a gamble? Like so many histories (even on planet earth) growth is often born out of necessity. Therefore, Starswirl could have either 'invented' the alicorn rule, as you suggest, or restored it, with added wisdom. When I say 'Alicorn line' I don't mean alicorns per se, I mean a 'royal lineage' that is suitable for such a role. An alicorn status seems to have the requirement of being earned, but Princess Cadance (Royal Lineage) and Flurry Heart (born an alicorn) seem to suggestion an ancient 'alicorn' lineage.

[CypherHoof 26,483]

7 minutes ago, Mirage said:

Remember that the tribal rule didn't work...which is why I suggested a void in the continuing line of ruling Alicorns. If Starswirl, by whatever means, ensured that Luna and Celestia would rule gives this void more credence than to assume there was never an alicorn line that kept unity and harmony to some reasonable degree. Why work so hard for such a gamble? Like so many histories (even on planet earth) growth is often born out of necessity. Therefore, Starswirl could have either 'invented' the alicorn rule, as you suggest, or restored it, with added wisdom. When I say 'Alicorn line' I don't mean alicorns per se, I mean a 'royal lineage' that is suitable for such a role. An alicorn status seems to have the requirement of being earned, but Princess Cadance (Royal Lineage) and Flurry Heart (born an alicorn) seem to suggestion an ancient 'alicorn' lineage.

Plus of course Cadence IS an alicorn, and so is Shiny's Sister... so there may be genetic markers on both sides of that family.

[Mirage 24,771]

1 minute ago, CypherHoof said:

Plus of course Cadence IS an alicorn, and so is Shiny's Sister... so there may be genetic markers on both sides of that family.

Exactly - which is what gave way to the idea that Starswirl was restoring the lineage...and its power.

[CypherHoof 26,483]

2 minutes ago, Mirage said:

Exactly - which is what gave way to the idea that Starswirl was restoring the lineage...and its power.

All speculation though - unless we DO get a flashback in S8 (which brings us nicely back on topic :D)

[ShadOBabe 19,011]

Uh... no.

I wouldn't mind a flashback showing their parents, but no. Them just popping up of the freakin' blue would irritate me intensely.

I don't believe they're even alive anymore anyway. They only way they could be is if they WERE ageless "born-alicorns". Now I do believe in the two types of alicorns theory, but it's not solidified in canon and there's lots of people that believe Celestia and Luna are "ascended-alicorns". If that is true, then the sisters used to be normal ponies with mortal parents. Celestia and Luna have been alive for thousands of years. If their parents were NOT the long lived "born-alicorn" species, then they're absolutely dead by now.

But while I think Celestia and Luna's parents were part of an ageless alicorn race, I also believe that that race is long gone, wiped from the face of the world by some catastrophy.

[Hierok 11,832]

I think they died, so I'm not looking forward to it. This all has to do with the fact that I believe they had unicorn parents and have been turned by Discord to alicorns. Making them alive brings that theory down, while that is something I like.

I prefer to see Trixie's and Starlights parents.

[Foxy Socks 2,600]

It would be nice to see that, assuming they are still alive. There has been absolutely no mention of them though, so I'm not sure if it will happen.

[Thrond 3,263]

Well, for one thing, I have to agree that their parents probably aren't alive anymore, and if they are, it's in some form which cannot interact with the plane of existence we see in the show. From early on, we got the sense that Celestia and Luna were either long-lived and ageless, and that this was somehow special; I sort of feel bringing their parents back somehow would add too much complexity to the show while also removing some of its flavour. I don't think we can get into the whole alicorn origins thing without diving deep into the lore, and I've always liked the show the most when the worldbuilding mostly served as a backdrop for much more down-to-earth scenarios. 

Edited November 26, 2017 by AlexanderThrond

[baverianborny 0]

Sure would be entertaining but if any perents will be reviald in season 8 it probably will be Scotterlos (or just maybe something new about Applejacks)

the thing is those alicorns live quite long so i doubt there perents are still alive.

wouldnt make a god story, would it.

could be diverent if we would know more about luna and celestia