Why do people like Luna?

[Goat-kun 2,527]

17 hours ago, TBD said:

You actually  think Luna’s fans glorified  her suffering? I’m sorry, but if that is how you see it then expect to be the only one.

But hey, that’s your opinion and I won’t argue against that. People can either hate Luna or like her. Either way,  it’s won’t change the damn a thing. If you guys wonder why people like Luna then lets  stick to the topic exploring why, instead of ranting. That can be for a new separate thread.

 

Come on then. Let's analyze those videos together.

 

Exhibit A: Children of the Night (not much princess suffering in the first one)

Some mildly edgy unicorn mare is bemoaning the decision of Celestia who did not want to separate Equestria into two camps right after it was devastated by Discord. She finishes by relishing the fact that Luna established her colony anyway.

 

Cue the music for the slightly modified Hocus Pocus song: Come little children sang by Luna. They made an effort to show Canterlot as a rundown town. Then there are all these children that may or may not be orphans who are all getting snatched by Luna and transported to her secret colony behind Celestia's back. They even throw in this line: "Hush now dear children, it must be this way, too weary of life and deceptions." Whose deceptions? Won't lie. This sentence really got my noggin joggin.

 

... And off they go flying into Luna's garden of shadows. Are you all thinking what I'm thinking? Hope not

 

So yes, Celestia needs to play the villain in order for Luna to look good in this fan work. She didn't agree to her sister's suggestion to abandon their settlements and go live in some dark cave, so she's a bad pony. "We're ruling together, but I'll just go behind your back whenever I feel like it. Talking it out some more? Nah. Who needs that when you can turn into a nightmare from being supposedly ignored down the road." Perhaps you as a Luna fan see all of this from a different angle? The pattern I'm seeing is what others have mentioned before me: all fee-fees, no logic. Feels right so it is right!

[TBD 17,254]

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

Come on then. Let's analyze those videos together.

Exhibit A: Children of the Night (not much princess suffering in the first one)

Some mildly edgy unicorn mare is bemoaning the decision of Celestia who did not want to separate Equestria into two camps right after it was devastated by Discord. She finishes by relishing the fact that Luna established her colony anyway.

Cue the music for the slightly modified Hocus Pocus song: Come little children sang by Luna. They made an effort to show Canterlot as a rundown town. Then there are all these children that may or may not be orphans who are all getting snatched by Luna and transported to her secret colony behind Celestia's back. They even throw in this line: "Hush now dear children, it must be this way, too weary of life and deceptions." Whose deceptions? Won't lie. This sentence really got my noggin joggin.

.. And off they go flying into Luna's garden of shadows. Are you all thinking what I'm thinking? Hope not

So yes, Celestia needs to play the villain in order for Luna to look good in this fan work. She didn't agree to her sister's suggestion to abandon their settlements and go live in some dark cave, so she's a bad pony. "We're ruling together, but I'll just go behind your back whenever I feel like it. Talking it out some more? Nah. Who needs that when you can turn into a nightmare from being supposedly ignored down the road." Perhaps you as a Luna fan see all of this from a different angle? The pattern I'm seeing is what others have mentioned before me: all fee-fees, no logic. Feels right so it is right!

 

I don't see how's that glorifying her suffering. Luna's a dark character yes, but glorying her suffering? unlikely. More like glorying her dark characteristics. sounds about right eh?

But lets not have these fanmade videos or perceptions leads us  away from the canon to make that sort of judgements. If you think Luna is some reformed villain who doesn't deserve love or respect,that's fine. We got other reformed villains who got the same hate reactions. But I'm just saying whether you wish to ignore it or not, fans likes her for these reasons above. And it's not for the reason you think.

Edited March 30, 2019 by TBD

[Goat-kun 2,527]

5 hours ago, TBD said:

I don't see how's that glorifying her suffering. Luna's a dark character yes, but glorying her suffering? unlikely. More like glorying her dark characteristics. sounds about right eh?

But lets not have these fanmade videos or perceptions leads us  away from the canon to make that sort of judgements. If you think Luna is some reformed villain who doesn't deserve love or respect,that's fine. We got other reformed villains who got the same hate reactions. But I'm just saying whether you wish to ignore it or not, fans likes her for these reasons above. And it's not for the reason you think.

I even made a remark about not much suffering in the second sentence. Don't worry. The forums won't shut down tomorrow. We have time.

 

The question is: Why do people like Luna? So we need to focus on you, her fans. What better than to analyze the popular fan pieces about her. In here she appears as a strong, independent ruler who is doing the right thing according to her little unicorn follower. So is this the version of Luna you like? Are you that unicorn follower? Is there something they should have done differently?

[TBD 17,254]

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

 I even made a remark about not much suffering in the second sentence. Don't worry. The forums won't shut down tomorrow. We have time

Right...

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

The question is: Why do people like Luna? So we need to focus on you, her fans. What better than to analyze the popular fan pieces about her. In here she appears as a strong, independent ruler who is doing the right thing according to her little unicorn follower. So is this the version of Luna you like? Are you that unicorn follower? Is there something they should have done differently?

What are you even trying to convey? Yeah I like Luna, what of it?

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

2 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

The question is: Why do people like Luna? So we need to focus on you, her fans. What better than to analyze the popular fan pieces about her. In here she appears as a strong, independent ruler who is doing the right thing according to her little unicorn follower. So is this the version of Luna you like? Are you that unicorn follower? Is there something they should have done differently?

I think you're ignoring her work with the foals. That, IMO has a huge influence on how people look a Luna, and likely was a huge inspiration for the likes of "Come Little Children." A motherly figure, spreading courage and hope, and fighting against demons (which we only directly get to witness through Celestia's one day in the role). A very stark contrast to her dark history, where she essentially WAS the very monster that she now protects against.

And gee... I can just imagine what you've thought of what I've done so far with the Team Moon vids... glaring technical animation and cinematography errors notwithstanding. Luna talking to Applajeck... that's the Princess Luna I see behind the vague impressions the writers have given us.

[Goat-kun 2,527]

13 hours ago, TBD said:

Right...

What are you even trying to convey? Yeah I like Luna, what of it?

Have you seen the rest of them? Anyhow, if this is where you want to leave it, I'm fine with that. Coma back anytime when you feel like talking about specifics of your affection.

12 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

I think you're ignoring her work with the foals. That, IMO has a huge influence on how people look a Luna, and likely was a huge inspiration for the likes of "Come Little Children." A motherly figure, spreading courage and hope, and fighting against demons (which we only directly get to witness through Celestia's one day in the role). A very stark contrast to her dark history, where she essentially WAS the very monster that she now protects against.

And gee... I can just imagine what you've thought of what I've done so far with the Team Moon vids... glaring technical animation and cinematography errors notwithstanding. Luna talking to Applajeck... that's the Princess Luna I see behind the vague impressions the writers have given us.

What are the traits of a motherly character? What monsters and demons? Is it a character's dual nature that you feel attracted to?

 

 

I thought nothing. Such videos are not my cup of tea so I only watched a whole minute of it all. I went 1/3 old god in that RP, so we were on totally different wavelengths anyway. When you go that far, the only characters that matter become those who have the insight to willingly call themselves servants of their respective side, and since there were no such characters involved I kinda just posted to myself for shits and giggles. It's a RP within a RP within a RP.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Goat-kun
I think I saw Jimmy Hoffa posting in Sugarcube

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

On 3/31/2019 at 10:18 AM, Goat-kun said:

What are the traits of a motherly character? What monsters and demons? Is it a character's dual nature that you feel attracted to?

Motherly, well as a defender, Luna is much more subjective. Most of what we've seen with Celestia is pretty regal. I have nothing against her, but as has already been said before, her personal side is seldom seen. The first time we do was the end of Horseplay, which... dagnabbit, that was adorable.

The Nightmare fighter has been known since very near the beginning of the show. That's something a lot of people can easily connect with. Whoever checked under the bed and inside the closet every night before we went to sleep as children. Luna calls up those kinds of feelings. And then the idea of her leaping from one dream to the next, looking for monsters to slay, that's synonymous with the classic depiction of most Superheroes. In other words, she's also Batman.

What Demons and Monsters? It was implied early on and then became blatantly obvious with the Tantabus. Ignoring the true nature of dreams in our world, which who knows if we'll ever get to the bottom of, dreams in MLP are a legit tangible place, therefore the beings that dwell there pose an actual threat. This is Nightmare on Elm Street, if every single critter that lurks in a bad dream was just as real as Freddy.

I don't think it's about the dual nature, but the symbolic irony. Maybe think of it like a ex drug dealer who now goes to schools around the country talking to kids about how dangerous it is.

And I know you're mostly looking for a psycho-analysis, but I have a complex connection to Luna that is much more subjective (FYI though, she isn't my waifu), and random things that have happened over the past year are far more suitable for an episode of the Twilight Zone than for any objective discussion about what makes Luna fans tick.

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,596]

I like her because she reminds me of Angel from Buffy The Vampire Slayer. She's someone who is haunted by choices she made in the past and is devoted to making amends for it. She represents that people can change and better themselves. 

Through Twilight freeing her from her darker half, she's been able to help others to find their better nature and be assured of their future.

[Rushing cash 836]

Luna is in my opinion, a very complex character. She has her past when she let her jealousy get control(I view her and nightmare moons relation to each other as similar to jackyl and hides relation) and did many things she rigrated. She wants to prove to herself and everyone she has changed and want everyone to love her for what she does, which is very relatable. I really love her backstory.

I like her personality, out of all the princesses and main characters I think she is more similar to me then any of them.  Plus, she has cool abilities...

[ChB 18,557]

Well, she is not in my list of "Top Five Characters," but I still like her. "Luna Eclipsed" and "Do Princess Dream of Magic Sheep" are enjoyable episodes to me, and "A Royal Problem" was at least half-decent to me. You may see the Tantabus event as an unforgivable act, but I see it as a character struggling to let go of her past, a character trait I find entertaining in many works of media.

[Goat-kun 2,527]

22 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Motherly, well as a defender, Luna is much more subjective. Most of what we've seen with Celestia is pretty regal. I have nothing against her, but as has already been said before, her personal side is seldom seen. The first time we do was the end of Horseplay, which... dagnabbit, that was adorable.

The Nightmare fighter has been known since very near the beginning of the show. That's something a lot of people can easily connect with. Whoever checked under the bed and inside the closet every night before we went to sleep as children. Luna calls up those kinds of feelings. And then the idea of her leaping from one dream to the next, looking for monsters to slay, that's synonymous with the classic depiction of most Superheroes. In other words, she's also Batman.

What Demons and Monsters? It was implied early on and then became blatantly obvious with the Tantabus. Ignoring the true nature of dreams in our world, which who knows if we'll ever get to the bottom of, dreams in MLP are a legit tangible place, therefore the beings that dwell there pose an actual threat. This is Nightmare on Elm Street, if every single critter that lurks in a bad dream was just as real as Freddy.

I don't think it's about the dual nature, but the symbolic irony. Maybe think of it like a ex drug dealer who now goes to schools around the country talking to kids about how dangerous it is.

And I know you're mostly looking for a psycho-analysis, but I have a complex connection to Luna that is much more subjective (FYI though, she isn't my waifu), and random things that have happened over the past year are far more suitable for an episode of the Twilight Zone than for any objective discussion about what makes Luna fans tick.

But is she a motherly character? What are the traits that make a character motherly? Is Celestia not a motherly character? How about Flutts?

 

Have we seen anything within the dreamscape that is not but a figment of pony thoughts? There is nothing there that warrants Luna's job position, except Luna herself. Luna is Luna's own job, it would seem.

 

How is she an antihero? How exactly does she have a dual nature inside canon? You do realize the antihero types use their burdens as motivation. Luna crumbles at the first sight of very surmountable adversity.

 

Like subjectivity cannot be explained. You've pretty much described a pony version of political populism. People with issues tend to vote for those who promise them the world. And as is often the case with such candidates, each hardcore fan sees what they want to see: their personal Luna OC.

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

5 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

But is she a motherly character? What are the traits that make a character motherly? Is Celestia not a motherly character? How about Flutts?

Have we seen anything within the dreamscape that is not but a figment of pony thoughts? There is nothing there that warrants Luna's job position, except Luna herself. Luna is Luna's own job, it would seem.

How is she an antihero? How exactly does she have a dual nature inside canon? You do realize the antihero types use their burdens as motivation. Luna crumbles at the first sight of very surmountable adversity.

Like subjectivity cannot be explained. You've pretty much described a pony version of political populism. People with issues tend to vote for those who promise them the world. And as is often the case with such candidates, each hardcore fan sees what they want to see: their personal Luna OC.

Celestia is. As I said a while back in this thread, the problem is we didn't get to see it until much later in the show, and there were a number of reasons a good percentage of fans didn't trust her early on. And Fluttershy is as well. It's interesting that you even brought her up though right before going into a statement such as "crumbles at first sight of surmountable adversity." You just compared Luna to Fluttershy, the queen of pushovers for a number of seasons. That hasn't stopped Flutters from having a very strong following of her own, nor being one of the top waifus. Do you question those who like Fluttershy just as vehemently?

Nothing in the dreamscape that warrants Luna's job position, except Luna herself? What are you saying? That the entire history of her job as Dreamwalker was that she created a disease just to sell the cure? Or just that the only time Luna was needed was when a Tantabus showed up that was of her own creation? If you're taking things at face value, I can see where you're coming from. But going deeper into the kind of analyses that make fandoms what they are, that argument just doesn't hold up. "Tantabus" is a classification or a species, not the name of a one-of-a-kind creature of her own spellcrafting. In fact, in the latin, Tantabus literally means Nightmare. Yes, Luna created this one, but she described it like something that was a known form of entity. In other words, this isn't the first time she (and most likely others) has encountered one. Now, we could bicker back and forth all day, speculating about what went on during Luna's exile, or how nightmare were being dealt with before Luna was around, but the point is, the Tantabus presents a very real threat. If it gains enough power, it can escape into the dreams of others, and eventually manifest itself in the real world, with likely extremely disastrous results. That's only one example though. In "A Royal Problem" Luna specifically points out that if Celestia was unable to defuse the fight between Nightmare Moon and Daybreaker, that it had the capacity to destroy Sunset's mind. Nightmares in our world don't do this, so yes, there is something more serious going on here than how we normally perceive "bad dreams."

Are you again using the Tantabus incident as a way to discredit her? Is this the "crumbles at the first sight of very surmountable adversity?" What, the whole one time that it happened? If you've done dastardly things you have no remorse about, well then good for you, I guess. Though it would certainly make me question your moral integrity though. Would you trust someone who did the things that Luna did, if they didn't struggle with it after they bettered themselves? As Twilight said, this is the proof that she has indeed changed. An inability to forgive oneself does not equate to a weak character.

The subjectivity I was referring to is a lot more intricate than simply labeling it as "my perception of her." There were a number of events that were out of my control. Even the World Cup event somewhat played into it actually, with a lot of insanely creepy parallels to things going on elsewhere. These things in particular wouldn't be useful for trying to create any kind of a profile of Luna fans. I've simply been exposed to a number of things that are very specific to me but nevertheless have much more deeply entrenched Luna into my psyche.

And... alright... where do YOU stand on all of this anyway? From your rather cryptic activity, such as the afore-mentioned pseudo-Cthulhoid RPing in the world cup, to your post in another Luna thread where you said you've prayed to her (really that could be sarcasm or it could be honest, I seriously can't make a judgement either way about that), you've become extremely hard to read. And while you might simply be probing for information for the sake of better understanding people and their choices, this could easily be classified as trolling. Maybe it's your demeanor, but you at least seem to be pushing very hard to make this debate arrive at a specific conclusion; that of everyone agreeing Luna is undeserving of the love she's been given.

[Kion 7,407]

I like her because she’s beautiful and Amazing. And her character is just really interesting.

[Zestanor 98]

In between the first episode and Luna Eclipsed is when the fandom began to grow rapidly, and be creative. Since her portrayal was so brief in the first episode, fans ran with an interpretation of her that turned out to be mostly wrong. Basically they thought of her as a child. Or more interestingly, an angsty teen. Since she was absent for all of season 1, she was mostly a blank slate for fan fiction.

By the time she appeared in season 2, she was the favorite character of many fans, and she has never lost popularity because of her early importance to the fandom, which had far-reaching consequences.

[Goat-kun 2,527]

17 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Celestia is. As I said a while back in this thread, the problem is we didn't get to see it until much later in the show, and there were a number of reasons a good percentage of fans didn't trust her early on. And Fluttershy is as well. It's interesting that you even brought her up though right before going into a statement such as "crumbles at first sight of surmountable adversity." You just compared Luna to Fluttershy, the queen of pushovers for a number of seasons. That hasn't stopped Flutters from having a very strong following of her own, nor being one of the top waifus. Do you question those who like Fluttershy just as vehemently?

Fluttershy is a pushover. Nobody cares, not even her fans.

17 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Nothing in the dreamscape that warrants Luna's job position, except Luna herself? What are you saying? That the entire history of her job as Dreamwalker was that she created a disease just to sell the cure? Or just that the only time Luna was needed was when a Tantabus showed up that was of her own creation? If you're taking things at face value, I can see where you're coming from. But going deeper into the kind of analyses that make fandoms what they are, that argument just doesn't hold up. "Tantabus" is a classification or a species, not the name of a one-of-a-kind creature of her own spellcrafting. In fact, in the latin, Tantabus literally means Nightmare. Yes, Luna created this one, but she described it like something that was a known form of entity. In other words, this isn't the first time she (and most likely others) has encountered one. Now, we could bicker back and forth all day, speculating about what went on during Luna's exile, or how nightmare were being dealt with before Luna was around, but the point is, the Tantabus presents a very real threat. If it gains enough power, it can escape into the dreams of others, and eventually manifest itself in the real world, with likely extremely disastrous results. That's only one example though. In "A Royal Problem" Luna specifically points out that if Celestia was unable to defuse the fight between Nightmare Moon and Daybreaker, that it had the capacity to destroy Sunset's mind. Nightmares in our world don't do this, so yes, there is something more serious going on here than how we normally perceive "bad dreams."

Yes I am. Sauce or it isn't canon. And you do not want to see me go too deep. Eldritch things lurk down in the dark. Harmony is a merciless Outer God and Tree of Harmony is its Red Marker. Would you like to know more cause I can totes justify all my claims better than any Luna fan can justify her job.

17 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Are you again using the Tantabus incident as a way to discredit her? Is this the "crumbles at the first sight of very surmountable adversity?" What, the whole one time that it happened? If you've done dastardly things you have no remorse about, well then good for you, I guess. Though it would certainly make me question your moral integrity though. Would you trust someone who did the things that Luna did, if they didn't struggle with it after they bettered themselves? As Twilight said, this is the proof that she has indeed changed. An inability to forgive oneself does not equate to a weak character.

Luna's whole story is based on her not being able to handle her shit. I do not dislike Luna cause she feels remorse, I dislike her cause she's weak-minded. She cannot carry her own burdens and that's kind of a requisite for a brooding antihero. After all, it is one's moral integrity that prevents them from abusing their power when they feel down.

17 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

The subjectivity I was referring to is a lot more intricate than simply labeling it as "my perception of her." There were a number of events that were out of my control. Even the World Cup event somewhat played into it actually, with a lot of insanely creepy parallels to things going on elsewhere. These things in particular wouldn't be useful for trying to create any kind of a profile of Luna fans. I've simply been exposed to a number of things that are very specific to me but nevertheless have much more deeply entrenched Luna into my psyche.

I'm deconstructing these claims in order to get the real picture of the relationship between the Luna OOC and her fans since your adoration is clearly not tied to the Luna we see in the show. We've now found out that being motherly is not a character trait that is all that high on your list of priorities, and can we say that the big talk about Batman is just a front. Being an overpowered bucket of tears inside fanon is pretty far removed from those who keep on fighting even when the public thinks they're the villain. I have reasons to believe that without the sense of persecution and the threat of a tearful catharsis constantly looming over her head, Luna would have far fewer fans. Some Bronies like to imagine themselves as such Luna-like figures.

17 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

And... alright... where do YOU stand on all of this anyway? From your rather cryptic activity, such as the afore-mentioned pseudo-Cthulhoid RPing in the world cup, to your post in another Luna thread where you said you've prayed to her (really that could be sarcasm or it could be honest, I seriously can't make a judgement either way about that), you've become extremely hard to read. And while you might simply be probing for information for the sake of better understanding people and their choices, this could easily be classified as trolling. Maybe it's your demeanor, but you at least seem to be pushing very hard to make this debate arrive at a specific conclusion; that of everyone agreeing Luna is undeserving of the love she's been given.
 

At the end of the day it's all just a meme, brah

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

7 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Yes I am. Sauce or it isn't canon. And you do not want to see me go too deep. Eldritch things lurk down in the dark. Harmony is a merciless Outer God and Tree of Harmony is its Red Marker. Would you like to know more cause I can totes justify all my claims better than any Luna fan can justify her job.

Luna's whole story is based on her not being able to handle her shit. I do not dislike Luna cause she feels remorse, I dislike her cause she's weak-minded. She cannot carry her own burdens and that's kind of a requisite for a brooding antihero. After all, it is one's moral integrity that prevents them from abusing their power when they feel down.

I'm deconstructing these claims in order to get the real picture of the relationship between the Luna OOC and her fans since your adoration is clearly not tied to the Luna we see in the show. We've now found out that being motherly is not a character trait that is all that high on your list of priorities, and can we say that the big talk about Batman is just a front. Being an overpowered bucket of tears inside fanon is pretty far removed from those who keep on fighting even when the public thinks they're the villain. I have reasons to believe that without the sense of persecution and the threat of a tearful catharsis constantly looming over her head, Luna would have far fewer fans. Some Bronies like to imagine themselves as such Luna-like figures.

At the end of the day it's all just a meme, brah

 

We had the discussion about the implications of a friendship dogma involving the tree in another thread. And clearly you already HAVE gone that deep in this thread. If you're going to sit there and smugly tell me that I can't make the claims I have on the grounds of it not being CANON, then neither can you, and yet you have. You've already gone far enough to say that there isn't any need for her, which means you're drawing from head-CANON yourself. "Luna's job is pointless and unnecessary" is NOT show CANON. You can't have it both ways, bub. At best then, based on your own logic, we're both injecting fanon into this and happen to be on opposite extremes. Me seeing through rose-tinted glasses, and you seeing through... horse-manure-tinted glasses

And speaking of CANON, if you think Luna is still in that same dark place, then you either haven't been paying attention, or you're one of those people who stopped watching a number of seasons ago.

You also don't get to tell me what I mean about the Batman point. "We can say that the big talk about Batman is just a front." No no no. Sorry. If you want to be the smart-flanked student who gets into an argument with Ray Bradbury in the middle of a panel, telling him that YOU know better than him about what his own darned book was about, that's your business. There is no "We" in that statement, just you.

And frankly, thinking more on how you have repeatedly talked about the show on these forums, I don't even see the point. You've said enough that you hate the friendship lessons and call them phony or whatever, and you rip into the writers at every opportunity, so you're already pretty much set to only see the bad in everything. I'm guessing Nihilism, or something very close to it. So if the core values of FiM after eight seasons already mean nothing to you, then definitely nothing that I or anyone else says on a forum thread is going to have the slightest impact on you. I also sense a severe (perhaps voluntary) lack of empathy. I'd like to see if your head would be screwed on straight after one or more lifetimes in solitary confinement. But then go figure, you might as well be condemning Luna from the perspective of Nightmare Moon.

And well, if you don't like her as an anti-hero, dang... you want EVERYTHING to fit perfectly into specific and predictable tropes? Beyond the "It's just a meme," I'm curious... I've asked you what you get out of this show once before, and you mentioned "cute Ponies in medieval world" but nothing beyond that. Is it purely superficial? Is there anything else about the show that you DO like? Any character? Any... anything? It's probably an easier question to ask, with a much shorter list, than to ask what you DON'T like about it.

However, interesting final paragraph. I might at least be able to provide some useful insight into that one. I wasn't here when it all happened, but I was certainly intrigued enough to do the dig into the history of the fandom, and I also read a number of the entries at www.researchismagic.org. I can tell you though that there is enough of a parallel between Luna and Bronies to make that connection, and it doesn't rely on anyone currently being dark and brooding. Having to imagine themselves as Luna-like isn't necessary. It's enough to know that at some point, enough of them were Luna-like, regardless of whether or not they still are.

A note before I go any further: Yes, everything I say beyond this is a generalization. For the sake of wording things more simply, I'm not going to bother pointing out in every other sentence "In many/most/some cases." I'm fully aware that things are not so cut & dry and there is far more diversity in the fandom. That put aside... probably the two broadest categories of folks who got into this fandom in this context: One group are those who already embraced these kinds of things, or only did it very privately, and a new MLP show just made sense to be another thing for them to gobble up. On the other side, you have the people that the "Join the Herd" fan song was about. This latter half bears some parallels to Luna that are worth being aware of.

Remember, Bronies got their start on 4chan. While it was and still is, a very goofy place, it was also a place of hardcore cynicism and toxic attitudes. Pretty much the last place in the world you would expect something like this fandom to spark up from. But it did. And a lot of people were transformed by it, going from being angsty trolls to what you see at conventions. Now going a bit deeper... that kind of angst is typically environmental. With the exception of sociopaths (who are a tiny % of the population), nobody just woke up one day and decided to be that way. They were pushed in that direction by a variety of factors such as ostracization, in many cases, probably wishing the world were different, but ultimately giving up on the dream. If only everyone else could see the potential (the majestic splendor of the night) that they saw. But it didn't happen, and it led to anger and corruption. And people when they have dealt with that long enough, they retreat inward, and hide behind layers upon layers of mental/emotional armor (lunar exile). They start to become the very thing they hated (Nightmare Moon). But then one random day, they're exposed to this show they've never seen before, and it affects them in a way they never could have imagined. They feel... different, like a part of themselves that's been dormant for far too long is suddenly coming back to life (Elements of Harmony blast). And then something more happens. There are others who feel the same way. There is a fandom, a safe space, a clan, whatever you want to call it. A place to belong. "It's alright, Luna. Things are different now. You can come home." So yes, there are some important parallels, and people pick up on things like this, even if just subconsciously. It's interesting since Twilight early on in the show was meant to be the "token" character, the one through which we all view the world of Equestria. But at least the origin story of Luna far more closely matches up to what happened to so many of us both before, and when we eventually fell into this mysterious new world. Sure, there are plenty of other characters that people relate to, but none in that way, as it relates to people who were "saved" by the show.

[Goat-kun 2,527]

3 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

We had the discussion about the implications of a friendship dogma involving the tree in another thread. And clearly you already HAVE gone that deep in this thread. If you're going to sit there and smugly tell me that I can't make the claims I have on the grounds of it not being CANON, then neither can you, and yet you have. You've already gone far enough to say that there isn't any need for her, which means you're drawing from head-CANON yourself. "Luna's job is pointless and unnecessary" is NOT show CANON. You can't have it both ways, bub. At best then, based on your own logic, we're both injecting fanon into this and happen to be on opposite extremes. Me seeing through rose-tinted glasses, and you seeing through... horse-manure-tinted glasses

There are snake oil merchants and useless royal guards in FIM. Luna falls into the same category.

3 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

And speaking of CANON, if you think Luna is still in that same dark place, then you either haven't been paying attention, or you're one of those people who stopped watching a number of seasons ago.

You also don't get to tell me what I mean about the Batman point. "We can say that the big talk about Batman is just a front." No no no. Sorry. If you want to be the smart-flanked student who gets into an argument with Ray Bradbury in the middle of a panel, telling him that YOU know better than him about what his own darned book was about, that's your business. There is no "We" in that statement, just you.

Yes, she's not in the same dark place. She's your average bitchy princess. She always was your average bitchy princess. The only thing that makes her special is the magical power she had from her birth. Batman is in a dark place. His tragic past transformed him from a wimpy rich kid into the nocturnal vigilante that we all know and love. Luna stayed the wimpy rich kid.

3 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

And frankly, thinking more on how you have repeatedly talked about the show on these forums, I don't even see the point. You've said enough that you hate the friendship lessons and call them phony or whatever, and you rip into the writers at every opportunity, so you're already pretty much set to only see the bad in everything. I'm guessing Nihilism, or something very close to it. So if the core values of FiM after eight seasons already mean nothing to you, then definitely nothing that I or anyone else says on a forum thread is going to have the slightest impact on you. I also sense a severe (perhaps voluntary) lack of empathy. I'd like to see if your head would be screwed on straight after one or more lifetimes in solitary confinement. But then go figure, you might as well be condemning Luna from the perspective of Nightmare Moon.

And well, if you don't like her as an anti-hero, dang... you want EVERYTHING to fit perfectly into specific and predictable tropes? Beyond the "It's just a meme," I'm curious... I've asked you what you get out of this show once before, and you mentioned "cute Ponies in medieval world" but nothing beyond that. Is it purely superficial? Is there anything else about the show that you DO like? Any character? Any... anything? It's probably an easier question to ask, with a much shorter list, than to ask what you DON'T like about it.

Give me Luna's powers and immortality and you can lock me up for those thousand years no problem. I'm willing to pay that price. Anyhow, I like the notion of the mortal's uselessness in the face of cosmic things and I like spicy memes. However, I also enjoy magical girls and Disney princesses. Ariel and Rapunzel are my favorites. Have you seen the Tangled two-parter? So dope. You know what else would be dope? Raps and Elsa teaming up. We know they're from the same world. Do it Disney! And by the by: empathy is not the same as leniency.

 

Twilight Sparkle, Fluttershy, Spike, Celestia, Rainbow Dash ... Would like Pinkie if she was written better. I like AJ as a person but I couldn't care less about her as a character. I'm somewhat warming up to Cadence, it's just that there's not much to work with. And yes, she will always be Cadence to me. Be gone all you Cadance heretics!

3 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

A note before I go any further: Yes, everything I say beyond this is a generalization. For the sake of wording things more simply, I'm not going to bother pointing out in every other sentence "In many/most/some cases." I'm fully aware that things are not so cut & dry and there is far more diversity in the fandom. That put aside... probably the two broadest categories of folks who got into this fandom in this context: One group are those who already embraced these kinds of things, or only did it very privately, and a new MLP show just made sense to be another thing for them to gobble up. On the other side, you have the people that the "Join the Herd" fan song was about. This latter half bears some parallels to Luna that are worth being aware of.

Remember, Bronies got their start on 4chan. While it was and still is, a very goofy place, it was also a place of hardcore cynicism and toxic attitudes. Pretty much the last place in the world you would expect something like this fandom to spark up from. But it did. And a lot of people were transformed by it, going from being angsty trolls to what you see at conventions. Now going a bit deeper... that kind of angst is typically environmental. With the exception of sociopaths (who are a tiny % of the population), nobody just woke up one day and decided to be that way. They were pushed in that direction by a variety of factors such as ostracization, in many cases, probably wishing the world were different, but ultimately giving up on the dream. If only everyone else could see the potential (the majestic splendor of the night) that they saw. But it didn't happen, and it led to anger and corruption. And people when they have dealt with that long enough, they retreat inward, and hide behind layers upon layers of mental/emotional armor (lunar exile). They start to become the very thing they hated (Nightmare Moon). But then one random day, they're exposed to this show they've never seen before, and it affects them in a way they never could have imagined. They feel... different, like a part of themselves that's been dormant for far too long is suddenly coming back to life (Elements of Harmony blast). And then something more happens. There are others who feel the same way. There is a fandom, a safe space, a clan, whatever you want to call it. A place to belong. "It's alright, Luna. Things are different now. You can come home." So yes, there are some important parallels, and people pick up on things like this, even if just subconsciously. It's interesting since Twilight early on in the show was meant to be the "token" character, the one through which we all view the world of Equestria. But at least the origin story of Luna far more closely matches up to what happened to so many of us both before, and when we eventually fell into this mysterious new world. Sure, there are plenty of other characters that people relate to, but none in that way, as it relates to people who were "saved" by the show.

>I was only nine years old.

I'm not sure you understand the cynicism that pervades the message boards, including /mlp/. The sort of reasoning you espouse is what caused many of them to be cynical in the first place. The dissonance between such pretty words and the world that is full of wrongs. Many of those wrongs were caused by pretty words. In a sort of a twisted way these shitlords are far stronger than Bronies. Even in their nightmare forms they can find humor in despair.

Spoiler

 

 

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

13 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

There are snake oil merchants and useless royal guards in FIM. Luna falls into the same category.

Yes, she's not in the same dark place. She's your average bitchy princess. She always was your average bitchy princess. The only thing that makes her special is the magical power she had from her birth. Batman is in a dark place. His tragic past transformed him from a wimpy rich kid into the nocturnal vigilante that we all know and love. Luna stayed the wimpy rich kid.

Give me Luna's powers and immortality and you can lock me up for those thousand years no problem. I'm willing to pay that price. Anyhow, I like the notion of the mortal's uselessness in the face of cosmic things and I like spicy memes. However, I also enjoy magical girls and Disney princesses. Ariel and Rapunzel are my favorites. Have you seen the Tangled two-parter? So dope. You know what else would be dope? Raps and Elsa teaming up. We know they're from the same world. Do it Disney! And by the by: empathy is not the same as leniency.

Twilight Sparkle, Fluttershy, Spike, Celestia, Rainbow Dash ... Would like Pinkie if she was written better. I like AJ as a person but I couldn't care less about her as a character. I'm somewhat warming up to Cadence, it's just that there's not much to work with. And yes, she will always be Cadence to me. Be gone all you Cadance heretics!

>I was only nine years old.

I'm not sure you understand the cynicism that pervades the message boards, including /mlp/. The sort of reasoning you espouse is what caused many of them to be cynical in the first place. The dissonance between such pretty words and the world that is full of wrongs. Many of those wrongs were caused by pretty words. In a sort of a twisted way these shitlords are far stronger than Bronies. Even in their nightmare forms they can find humor in despair.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Again, not-CANON.

That's funny. I haven't seen Luna struggling with anything ever since the Tantabus, the one exception being "A Royal Problem," but then Celestia was having the exact same problem, and admitted to Luna's work being just as much of a living Hell as her own.

Keep in mind, depending on how long she's had it, having power isn't so much a mental or emotional "counter" to misfortune. "First world problems" and all that. You like Elsa? That comes as a bit of a surprise. Elsa and Luna share a lot of common elements. The only major deviance is that Elsa learned much more quickly but is that really a reflection on the character or is it due to the format of the media (having only 1.5 hours to tell a story)? And on your character list... alright, fair enough. Cadence, wow. The unsung Alicorn.

Ehh, actually I do understand it. Growing up in the 80's, and finding no shred of the world I was promised. I got the cynycism. I became one of those people, though it seemed to take me a lot longer to get pushed that far. I was never a 4channer personally, but heh... a lot of folks used to tell me that my humor was at its best when I was disgruntled or just outight ticked off. I had a lot of the Dennis Leary or George Carlin thing going on. But I also never liked being that person. There was this feeling that I was doing it simply because there was nothing better to do, and it just made me feel fake and... a traitor, of some sort. The rules are different now. For the first time in my life there's are places where I can be accepted for my true self. Apparently just that tiny sliver was all I ever needed. Nothing bothers me the way it used to; everything from childhood traumas to wigging out over tweets from my glorious President.

[Rushing cash 836]

This picture speaks volumes! Do people really need more explanation

Spoiler

 

[Goat-kun 2,527]

19 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Again, not-CANON.

Of course it's not canon since I'm not even stating something is an in-show fact. I'm merely pointing out the obvious from the perspective of a viewer. It's like when you point out that there's a better solution to a problem a protagonist solves in a convoluted way, or how some action is plain stupid. Horror movies have the victims splitting up for some reason. It's "canon" but it's still stupid.

19 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

That's funny. I haven't seen Luna struggling with anything ever since the Tantabus, the one exception being "A Royal Problem," but then Celestia was having the exact same problem, and admitted to Luna's work being just as much of a living Hell as her own.

Exactly. Even our glorious writers cannot demonstrate how Luna could have ever become Nightmare Moon. I mean, how much of an entitled bitch must one be to have her kind of life and still go off the rails? Her squabbles with Celestia are nothing special.

19 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Keep in mind, depending on how long she's had it, having power isn't so much a mental or emotional "counter" to misfortune. "First world problems" and all that. You like Elsa? That comes as a bit of a surprise. Elsa and Luna share a lot of common elements. The only major deviance is that Elsa learned much more quickly but is that really a reflection on the character or is it due to the format of the media (having only 1.5 hours to tell a story)? And on your character list... alright, fair enough. Cadence, wow. The unsung Alicorn.

Elsa never really tried to hurt anyone. She could have easily become someone like the White Witch yet she chose exile instead. Well, her story is young. There's plenty of time for temptation.

19 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

And on your character list... alright, fair enough. Cadence, wow. The unsung Alicorn.

She has a calm, stable personality and she's not that gung-ho about proselytizing Friendship. As a ruler, I like her better than Twilight. Never liked how she was enforcing love among ponies though. I'm pretty sure there was a villain in Miraculous Ladybug with that ability

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

9 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

Of course it's not canon since I'm not even stating something is an in-show fact. I'm merely pointing out the obvious from the perspective of a viewer. It's like when you point out that there's a better solution to a problem a protagonist solves in a convoluted way, or how some action is plain stupid. Horror movies have the victims splitting up for some reason. It's "canon" but it's still stupid.

Exactly. Even our glorious writers cannot demonstrate how Luna could have ever become Nightmare Moon. I mean, how much of an entitled bitch must one be to have her kind of life and still go off the rails? Her squabbles with Celestia are nothing special.

Elsa never really tried to hurt anyone. She could have easily become someone like the White Witch yet she chose exile instead. Well, her story is young. There's plenty of time for temptation.

She has a calm, stable personality and she's not that gung-ho about proselytizing Friendship. As a ruler, I like her better than Twilight. Never liked how she was enforcing love among ponies though. I'm pretty sure there was a villain in Miraculous Ladybug with that ability

Well, now this is sort of going into semantics. You're saying its obvious to you but others would call it fanon. Same goes for what I and others plainly see but you call fanon. So really then, we're arguing over differences in perception. Ultimately though, an explanation for how Nightmare Moon happened isn't necessary because it wasn't integral to Luna's redemption. It would be nice to see, but it would take up a lot of time, and would also probably be extremely depressing. One of those "obvious things" that some are seeing is that the story of Nightmare Moon as presented in the 'book' in Episode 1, isn't the full story - not by a longshot, which is also one of the reasons there was a distrust of Celestia early on. The comics went deeper into it though, and you would probably find that story very interesting. 

The trauma of hurting Anna was a big limiter on that and it happened at a good age to have that kind of effect. Imagine if she hadn't grown up being fearful of her power.

Yeah, I've wondered the same thing about Cadence. If you don't trust the Tree over similar reasons, well Cadence's cutie mark represents a talent that overrides free will, unless there's something more nuanced about it (like how hyponosis can't make someone do anything they're not OK with doing)

[Goat-kun 2,527]

15 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Well, now this is sort of going into semantics. You're saying its obvious to you but others would call it fanon. Same goes for what I and others plainly see but you call fanon. So really then, we're arguing over differences in perception. Ultimately though, an explanation for how Nightmare Moon happened isn't necessary because it wasn't integral to Luna's redemption. It would be nice to see, but it would take up a lot of time, and would also probably be extremely depressing. One of those "obvious things" that some are seeing is that the story of Nightmare Moon as presented in the 'book' in Episode 1, isn't the full story - not by a longshot, which is also one of the reasons there was a distrust of Celestia early on. The comics went deeper into it though, and you would probably find that story very interesting.

Commenting on canon is not fanon. Adding to canon is. Saying that Luna is dumb cause she did X does not change canon. Speculating that Luna did X due to Z without any hint in canon is fanon. And not even H-Bro takes IDW narrative seriously. Though comic Luna is even more happy go lucky ditz that the show version. Guess you really need some "dark forces" to make her look good in the light of past events.

15 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

The trauma of hurting Anna was a big limiter on that and it happened at a good age to have that kind of effect. Imagine if she hadn't grown up being fearful of her power.

She didn't even have a teacher and had no idea how to control her powers. Celestia and Luna did. The incident with Anna made her afraid, yes, but her decisions were still based on her wish not to hurt others. Nightmare Moon is a deliberate attempt to hurt Celestia.

This would not look good in front of a jury:

Spoiler

 

15 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Yeah, I've wondered the same thing about Cadence. If you don't trust the Tree over similar reasons, well Cadence's cutie mark represents a talent that overrides free will, unless there's something more nuanced about it (like how hyponosis can't make someone do anything they're not OK with doing)

We don't actually know how it works. Just another thing we need to thank our glorious writers for. I like to imagine that it only works on those who already like each other, but hey, that's fanon. It's just one of FIM's dystopian saccharine world abilities that make your noggin joggin. And it's not like I merely have no trust in the Tree. As one who appreciates all the colors of mana I fundamentally disagree with the whole philosophy of Friendship and Harmony which does not include free nature and benevolent darkness. I'm a balance extremist

Edited April 22, 2019 by Goat-kun
Calling Twilight to the stand

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

Commenting on canon is not fanon. Adding to canon is. Saying that Luna is dumb cause she did X does not change canon. Speculating that Luna did X due to Z without any hint in canon is fanon. And not even H-Bro takes IDW narrative seriously. Though comic Luna is even more happy go lucky ditz that the show version. Guess you really need some "dark forces" to make her look good in the light of past events.

She didn't even have a teacher and had no idea how to control her powers. Celestia and Luna did. The incident with Anna made her afraid, yes, but her decisions were still based on her wish not to hurt others. Nightmare Moon is a deliberate attempt to hurt Celestia.

This would not look good in front of a jury:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

We don't actually know how it works. Just another thing we need to thank our glorious writers for. I like to imagine that it only works on those who already like each other, but hey, that's fanon. It's just one of FIM's dystopian saccharine world abilities that make your noggin joggin. And it's not like I merely have no trust in the Tree. As one who appreciates all the colors of mana I fundamentally disagree with the whole philosophy of Friendship and Harmony which does not include free nature and benevolent darkness. I'm a balance extremist

You said that Luna serves no purpose; that her job is meaningless. That is not commenting on canon, yet you also claim it is not fanon. "Spoiled rich bitch" is an assumption, and is therefore fanon by your definition. This is speculation about events that we know almost nothing about. You simply appear to be simply moving the goal posts based upon who is doing the speculating. I don't need "dark forces" to explain anything or to forgive Luna. All I was saying is the comics actually took the time necessary to explore Nightmare Moon in some detail. The show, perhaps intentionally, left us to speculate on the details. Blaming the whole thing on jealousy is an oversimplified broad stroke written in what was essentially a bedtime story to read to foals; mental breakdowns are never that simple for anyone except toddlers. But a thousand years of battling monsters in dreams, nobody to talk to the whole time, with the exception of 5-minutes worth of breakfast over smiley-face pancakes before crashing, and then dealing with your own nightmares? Yeah, I could easily see that having some long-term detrimental effects, especially if it all went on with no thanks or recognition (and there's where the jealousy would start to actually make sense).

I have a similar distrust of Elsa's parents (and perhaps even moreso, the trolls) as I did with Celestia in the beginning. I don't have any judgement against Elsa, I was mainly curious. In a monarchy, it's not likely that they have a jury system, but regardless, Luna was punished, though Celestia's "solution" seemed more like a knee-jerk reaction than an actual plan, especially if the elements always had the ability to cleanse Luna of whatever screwed up thing was in her mind (the Mane 6 did it no problem). Another thing that makes dark corruption likely though, while we're talking about free will, I don't think we've ever seen the Elements mysteriously "change someone's mind" like a Care Bear Stare typically does. Unless Nightmare Moon was a glaring exception to that rule, the Elements have only banished creatures in various ways...

Spoiler

(still waiting on Sombra to show if that rule remains true of if outright slaying is now within their capability)

...or disenchanted/disabled a source of power.

Heh, well there was that one thing Starlight said while Daybreaker and Nightmare Moon were trying to kill each other. "Without balance, there is no Harmony."

 

 

[Goat-kun 2,527]

1 hour ago, BornAgainBrony said:

You said that Luna serves no purpose; that her job is meaningless. That is not commenting on canon, yet you also claim it is not fanon. "Spoiled rich bitch" is an assumption, and is therefore fanon by your definition. This is speculation about events that we know almost nothing about. You simply appear to be simply moving the goal posts based upon who is doing the speculating. I don't need "dark forces" to explain anything or to forgive Luna. All I was saying is the comics actually took the time necessary to explore Nightmare Moon in some detail. The show, perhaps intentionally, left us to speculate on the details. Blaming the whole thing on jealousy is an oversimplified broad stroke written in what was essentially a bedtime story to read to foals; mental breakdowns are never that simple for anyone except toddlers. But a thousand years of battling monsters in dreams, nobody to talk to the whole time, with the exception of 5-minutes worth of breakfast over smiley-face pancakes before crashing, and then dealing with your own nightmares? Yeah, I could easily see that having some long-term detrimental effects, especially if it all went on with no thanks or recognition (and there's where the jealousy would start to actually make sense).

How is thinking that Luna was battling monsters we never saw inside the show having the same weight as claiming Luna is a bitch from what we see? It's not a bedtime story. Twilight literally saw her transform while acting like a prick. Personalities are conveyed through actions. We'll never have it written down in exact words. That goes for all the characters in fiction, not just Luna. Every chap can tell you how a rich bitch acts like. However, claiming what you have in your version of the story requires a lot of mental gymnastics. The only time we saw Luna in a state of such distress was when she was dealing with guilt.

1 hour ago, BornAgainBrony said:

I have a similar distrust of Elsa's parents (and perhaps even moreso, the trolls) as I did with Celestia in the beginning. I don't have any judgement against Elsa, I was mainly curious. In a monarchy, it's not likely that they have a jury system, but regardless, Luna was punished, though Celestia's "solution" seemed more like a knee-jerk reaction than an actual plan, especially if the elements always had the ability to cleanse Luna of whatever screwed up thing was in her mind (the Mane 6 did it no problem). Another thing that makes dark corruption likely though, while we're talking about free will, I don't think we've ever seen the Elements mysteriously "change someone's mind" like a Care Bear Stare typically does. Unless Nightmare Moon was a glaring exception to that rule, the Elements have only banished creatures in various ways...

  Reveal hidden contents

(still waiting on Sombra to show if that rule remains true of if outright slaying is now within their capability)

...or disenchanted/disabled a source of power.

Her defense would not hold water inside our court once that video was shown, that is all. And considering how Luna currently behaves, there was not much change to be had in the quality of her thinking, only in intensity of it. Elements do tend to squeeze magical power out of the baddies. We do not know what Celestia did when she banished her sister. We do not know how Elements behave if you channel your intent into them ... But most of it is just our glorious writers doing whatever the buck they want to fix their shitty plots

1 hour ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Heh, well there was that one thing Starlight said while Daybreaker and Nightmare Moon were trying to kill each other. "Without balance, there is no Harmony."

Too bad she was just using a hollow phrase to defuse the situation. Nature is Starlight's worst enemy. Curiously enough, it is also one of Equestria's worst enemies. Really activates those acorns.

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

Just now, Goat-kun said:

How is thinking that Luna was battling monsters we never saw inside the show having the same weight as claiming Luna is a bitch from what we see? It's not a bedtime story. Twilight literally saw her transform while acting like a prick. Personalities are conveyed through actions. We'll never have it written down in exact words. That goes for all the characters in fiction, not just Luna. Every chap can tell you how a rich bitch acts like. However, claiming what you have in your version of the story requires a lot of mental gymnastics. The only time we saw Luna in a state of such distress was when she was dealing with guilt.

Her defense would not hold water inside our court once that video was shown, that is all. And considering how Luna currently behaves, there was not much change to be had in the quality of her thinking, only in intensity of it. Elements do tend to squeeze magical power out of the baddies. We do not know what Celestia did when she banished her sister. We do not know how Elements behave if you channel your intent into them ... But most of it is just our glorious writers doing whatever the buck they want to fix their shitty plots

Too bad she was just using a hollow phrase to defuse the situation. Nature is Starlight's worst enemy. Curiously enough, it is also one of Equestria's worst enemies. Really activates those acorns.

We never saw them? Are you kidding me? Luna going into dreams was introduced pretty early on. The potential repercussions of those dreams going unchecked didn't get explored until later. Celestia's little self-motivating speech before venturing into the dream world for the first time is pretty telling. "Now to save someone from their nightmares, which shouldn't be a problem because they're not real. Right? RIGHT?!" Luna's work at least puts her on the level of some kind of mystical psychiatrist, preventing patients from losing their minds, in the most dramatic ways imaginable. In our world, Starlight would have simply woken up from the dream, and been over it within a couple hours at the most, as all nightmares (with the exception of terrors, which is a very different thing) tend to be. Starlight was going to have been permanently scarred by it and that is NOT normal for Nightmares.

She was already off the deep end when she transformed, that was pretty obvious. And what, you can base the entire pre-NMM backstory of Luna on the whole 30 seconds of it that Twilight witnessed? That's like cellphone videos in restaurants that only ever start AFTER the altercation is in full-swing, denying us always of the big question, "How did all of this start?" And we're talking about creatures that live FAR longer than we do. You think this all of that rage built up over the course of a day or a week? Sounds like maybe you just don't care about things like that. Do you care at all about what people go through, or only what you can see with your eyes? Sentient life forms don't fit into neat little categories like "rich bitch." People just all too often want them to, so they pick the few aspects that fit the stereotype, and discard everything that doesn't match up.