A philosophical inquiry about the afterlife

[Discordian 6,015]

So, as we all know, no one truly knows what lies after death. Many have possibilities they believe are true, such as religions, and others who merely theorize, like myself.

 

There's Heaven, Valhalla, reincarnation, a black void, ghosts and hauntings...and more!

 

But here's a question for you: Do you think it's possible that people who believe in the Christian version of heaven will go to heaven and those who believe in the void will go there? Is it possible that the afterlife is whatever the individual chooses it to be based on their belief or is it truly one true place and we all just make theories and believe in various things until we get there?

 

Let's try to make this a debate rather than an argument, put your beliefs on the backburner and consider the question at hand. Bring up your beliefs if you need to but let's not turn this into one belief over another.

[Ezynell 2,037]

​I'm an atheist and personally believe that the only way to live your life is to make living as enjoyable as possible to you and everypony else without request and desire of a reward (like heaven, or eternal salvation, etc.) I believe that, even if a god or a heaven existed, it would still be more "righteous" or "saint" to do good without desire of reward.

[Finesthour 7,287]

I would rather believe people go to heaven.

 

Why?

 

Why wouldn't you want to believe there is a better place for you when you die.

 

Why would you want to believe your life is just... over?

 

Somepony tell me please, I have never understood it.

[Discordian 6,015]

Well that's why you live life however you want, to the best it can be for you, if in the end there is nothing then you want to live life how it is.

 

When you get to the end, there being nothing, would you be conscious of it? Would you be aware that you were no more? Trying to imagine "nothingness" is a bit difficult but I would go for nothingness instead of the possibility of going to hell. I would rather be nothing than go to hell, as I don't believe there's a possibility I'll go to heaven if I were to follow the Christian belief.

 

There's too many possibilities out there so this question came to my mind, do you go where you believe you go or is there a set place no matter your belief? Thus, this topic was created.

[Lady Rarity Pony 4,892]

We respawn next round...duh

[Slendermane 477]

I believe in afterlife, but I have different ideas about heaven and hell. I believe there is a higher plane of existence (or more likely many planes of existence) that we go to when we die. It is a place of pure creation. If you lived a good life and are at peace with yourself, you will create a paradise. If you think you failed at life, your pain and anguish will manifest as your personal hell. I don't believe in eternal damnation. This higher plane (or dimension) is only a temporary stopping point. I also believe in reincarnation. Everyone lives many lives until they can reach a level of spiritual enlightenment and move on to whatever lies beyond. Those who made a paradise are one step closer to enlightenment, and will reincarnate again until they are ready. Those who created a hell are further from enlightenment, and will need to reincarnate more times to make up for their setback. I believe that every soul is a premature God that is learning, evolving, and maturing. But those are just my beliefs.

Edited December 10, 2011 by Slendermane

[Sunnymilk 40]

Personally I hope it is just eternal nothingness, preferably no conciousness either. If I'm first going to die, I wanna rest.

the taught of any form of eternal afterlife is scaring me.

I know it is not possible to prove nonexistence, but again, personally, if it can not be proven, I do not believe in it.

 

But if there WAS a afterlife in the form of "heaven" I think it would be safe to assume it would be different for every individual. What I might consider to be a pleasant way to spend eternity is in no way the same as every other man.

this going from the standpoint that "heaven" is something good.

Edited December 10, 2011 by Flutterfry

[Evilshy 5,090]

It's difficult for a human to imagine eternal anything after death, or to imagine not existing at all.

 

If humans really are just biological, then it makes sense that when we die, we cease to exist completely. We wouldn't be around in a black void or anything, we simply wouldn't exist. This is very hard to comprehend for anyone. This is also the belief I lean towards.

 

On the other hand, if there is something else to humans, such as a soul, spirit, or whatever you want to call it, then perhaps it doesn't die with the body, and you continue to exist in some form. Many religions believe this, and that after you die, you live in this form for eternity, equally impossible to comprehend.

 

Now, i find it much more comforting to believe that death is truly the end because we will no longer be around to feel sad that we are now dead, or can't go back, or regret things we screwed up on. We will no longer exist. A big contributing factor to this is the fact that there are so many religions and pretty much all are mutually exclusive, so without anyway to know for sure who's right, you're taking a big gamble.

 

Rather than believing my choice on the religious roulette wheel is going to win, I just believe that the wheel doesn't exist in the first place, and I find my own comfort in this.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[w1kk3d 56]

I would like to believe everyone goes to a special place, I would like nothing more than to meet my old family members, and to live happily. But My whole life is based on evidence, and I haven't seen evidence of that. I believe Carl Sagan said it best:

"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is

than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

 

Carl Sagan

[Swoop 2,278]

I Just know i'm going to go off on a tangent on this one, I'll try and keep my argument concise, though I can't guarantee anything!

 

After death, there is rebirth of character, but no transmigration of a self; your thought-forms will reappear, but there is no ego-entity transferred. Only through ignorance and delusion do men indulge in the dream that their souls are separate and self-existent entities.

 

Growing up in a family that promoted the rational study of religion rather than it's actual practice, I've always had a bit of an interest in theology. As most of us know, It can be a pretty daunting experience attempting to compare and contrast a wide scope of philosophical, scientific, paranormal and religious conjectures, most of which appear to oppose and contradict each other.

 

I think one has to keep in mind that our existence is dependant upon matter, which simply congregates from the surrounding environment to become you. This matter will remain affixed for a period of time dependant upon numerous variables, before inevitably dissipating after death. Matter is reused and recycled; the material that amounts to the cells in your body may have come from another human centuries ago, or from a nebula in outer space. Both are extremely likely, but I promised myself i'd stay on track.

 

In saying this, we can safely conclude that our tangible selves will, at one future instance, once again become significant in the structure of another organism, provided the life cycle continues to exist long enough that is. But what of the real question, can metempsychosis be proven?

 

I must admit, I find the theory that an essence, or soul of an individual, which confers personal identity, can survive the death of the body of this world and this lifetime, by natural or supernatural means, very difficult to accept, in contrast to the belief in eternal oblivion after death.

 

 

Why wouldn't you want to believe there is a better place for you when you die.

 

Why would you want to believe your life is just... over?

 

Somepony tell me please, I have never understood it.

 

The belief in eternal oblivion after death can something very difficult to accept. While many can take comfort in the conviction that transmigration does occur, I know that I (as well as many others), cannot embrace such a belief, as it feels as though we're denying the inevitable. Try to think of it as that feeling you get when you're in a bad spot in your life, and you try to convince yourself that everything's going to work out for the best, even though the rest of your brain's pretty much concluded there's no hope.

 

While I can't say I find the prospect of an eternal lack of awareness after death comforting, I find it a more acceptable reality in comparison to what others may believe, and feel (comparatively) content with my selection.

 

In conclusion (and for all you TLDR users): The afterlife's just one of those debates that's full of biased and unverifiable information. While I seem to be leaning more towards believing that transmigration cannot occur, the reality is that like most of us, I'm still wandering in that giant grey area between absolute faith and nihilism, and I don't think I'm going to get anywhere closer to the truth until my time to depart this world arrives.

Edited December 10, 2011 by Swoop

[Klopp 2,050]

Being an Athiest myself, I don't tend to believe in much life after death. But I do like to keep an open mind about things. I really don't know what happens when we die, but I would certainly HOPE that's not the end of it all. I believe once we are dead it's all done and over, just nothing but nothingness after... but at the same time I think, what the HELL kind of nonsense is that? I work hard my whole life just to be thrown into the ground and become plant food? I don't like that idea at all.

 

If I were to get what I WANT rather than what I believe in, my "Soul" would just be transported elsewhere to be born anew as a different entity. Perhaps something similar to the caste system of the Hindu, where doing good in this life will grant you a better life next time. I like to think that Earth would be one level of the caste, and some other biologically gifted planet (That we obviously haven't discovered, and hopefully never will ) would be the next level up. If that's the case I know of a whole crap load of people that are going to go down a level or two .

 

I don't really care what heppens after death, I'm just don't want it to come to a crashing halt and your all through with living. Such a depressing thought, but the only one I can really believe for now. I hope for everyones sake that I am wrong though

[Heartstrings 102]

I believe that death is simply the end of life. That's it. There's nothing after that. It's like before you were born, just nothing. I know it's not a very nice idea, and most people (including me) would rather have some life afterward; I just don't think it's possible. There is no real evidence of having a soul, or some kind of lifeforce that could keep living even after you did. People are just biological organisms and once they break down and don't work any more, that's kinda it.

 

But hay, life's miraculous. It's something that shouldn't have happened, in terms of the universe life is the odd thing out and doesn't really fit in with anything else. So I intend to appreciate every ounce of it I have. Life's a gift and I don't want to stress out too much about what happens when it's over.

[Mr. Shoe 20]

"life is a disease that has only one cure..."

 

What do I think of the afterlife? First of all, I do not believe in god thought I believe that there is a higher force, like aliens or some other living organisms, that rule OR spectate our progression of our technology and social lives as a race. For one, I need proof of such of thing as "god" and so far, There wasn't any proof (except the holy bible, which I assume is SI-FI) like REAL videos, REAL photos or at least 3 in a row dreams of conversation with god. So yeah, I do not believe in god, or at lest a "guy" who created the earth from nothing in seven days. This is my cup of tea and please respect it.

 

Now about the afterlife. As a man of facts and a novice biologist, I say that there is nothing waiting for us after death. I think so, because A human is only a really complex biological organism with a realy complex "computers" in theyr heads. It wouldn't make any sense if, for example, a robot that got destroyed would live in heaven or hell as a spirit or as a ghost form, or anywhere in that matter. And talking about robots, Isn't a human actually a REALLY complex robot? well, not a robot but something near it... A bio robot? lol....

 

On the other hand, I would love to be wrong about my statements... It would just make our lives pointless, or at least without a reason. It would be awesome to reincarnate as a different organism when you die. You would lose all of your memories of your past lives, but your "soul" would be the same. Alternatively, as said before, That life would be just one of your states, and there would be more to come...

 

To sum up, what I said, I do not think there is something after you die, but I would love if there was.

[Viscra Maelstrom 3,718]

i have no idea how life after death will be, but one thing i'm sure of is that your life on the Earth as a living being will end. what will happen next, i have no idea. is there such a place as heaven and hell, and will you go to either of those? will you still exist on the Earth, but only in a spiritual form? will you reincarnate onto the Earth again, starting life over again with no recollection of your pre-existing life?

 

i don't know, and i don't want to think about it. it's the present that matters, and nothing else. live in the present, live your life the way YOU want it to be. enjoy your life as a living being on the Earth while you still can, because it won't last forever. all good things have to come to an end, living on the Earth is one of them. when you finally die, you should pass away in the thought that you lived life the way you wanted it to turn out, and that you enjoyed doing so.

[Evilshy 5,090]

If we are reincarnated with no recollection of past lives, we've all probably lived thousands of times before and don't know it.

 

That's deep.

[Sunnymilk 40]

The general idea of afterlife is probably just because, yes, it is very hard to imagine not existing. that in itself makes it easy to belive you have a soul of some sort ever roaming the universe, or living in some sort of heaven after your demise.

I have found myselt trying to imagine just not existing, it is extremely hard to comprehend. I have even at times had vague ideas about testing it myself. curiosity work in weird ways with me. but I still have a hard time believing in a conciousness after death. afterall, we are just a complex network of molecules put together in exactly the right way to create a living, breathing, sentient lifeform.

what about before our birth? we don't remember anything from then. if we had a soul, was it created by our parents? in that case, our parents are our own personal god. which technically speaking, they are anyway, but thats me derailing.

 

Our brains are just extrmely complect computers, wires and nodes constantly working, perceiving images, creating ideas, storing memories. just like a computer. you could say, but Flutterfry, computers are programmed. Well, so are we.

 

what I am getting at is, we are just a complect computer, programmed to be sentient. I at least have a hard time believing any of our "data" will saved after death, unless it is getting transfered wirelessly to some kind of central storage device.

 

If we are reincarnated with no recollection of past lives, we've all probably lived thousands of times before and don't know it.

 

That's deep.

 

But then it isnt really us is it? the environment, family, and friends of a person is what is shaping his personality, if we get reincarnated with no recollection of our past lives, we would no longer be the same person. thus the whole idea is a waste.

give 10 people the introduction to a story and ask them to finish it. not a single one of them will look the same.

[Slendermane 477]

If we are reincarnated with no recollection of past lives, we've all probably lived thousands of times before and don't know it.

 

That's deep.

 

Personally, I believe that the soul has some memory of our past lives, but we can't remember when we are in a life (body, incarnation, what ever you want to call it). I believe that the soul learns and grows from the experiences and memories it makes in each life. But each life must not influence the next, so we forget each time we are reborn. That is what I believe. Of course, I could be completely wrong, and we could be just a bundle of cells and atoms that have somehow formed a consciousness and there is no soul. But I don't think so.

[Lady Rarity Pony 4,892]

TL DR at this thread.

I believe in heaven and hell...why?...because I'm semi-religious. Might as well, there's no harm in it.

[Colon Leftbracket 971]

(I am sharing my beliefs and I do not mean to talk down other beliefs, I'm trying to give you my point of view)

 

I believe (being an atheist) that we should focus more on living our lives when we are alive rather than hoping for something better in the end.

More...

 

 

Why? It is reasonable in grief for people to believe that their lost loved ones are in a better place, not for the benefit of the deceased but for the griever. They need to think that the situation is good in some light.

 

I like the concept of your afterlife being based on whatever you believe in, but I only like it as a concept. It's sorta like the ending of a tragic play where you are undone by your tragic flaws.

 

However, (my belief) is that death is where your brain no longer functions. It is a natural cycle to keep population under control as well as benefit other organisms in the ecosystem. It is like switching off a light bulb. You don't believe the bulb went to light bulb heaven because it no longer functions.

 

Many people can't understand why I believe in something so grim, but it's because my lack of faith, my belief of everything having a rational explanation, and that death isn't something to be "brightened up" death is death and it is permanent. However, saying death is "sad" is also a silly aspect. Of course death is sad for those on the outside who witness it and their lives are forever changed by the non-inclusion of a loved one, but what about the deceased? It isn't sad for the deceased. Not at all! Saying death is "sad" for the deceased is like saying a rock is "angry" when you kick it around. Their brain no longer functions therefore no emotions positive or negative. Death is only sad the moment before you die thinking of regrets and those left behind, but after death swallows you... nothing.

 

Nothing, why believe in nothing? Why a black void? Well think of space. Space is a black void. Space is something. A black void is still a black void therefore it is something. So death is not a black void. It is NOTHING! It is impossible to comprehend nothing. You will always experience something therefore you cannot comprehend true nothing. Nothing is the absence of experience, as in you do not experience your death. We will never know what happens after death because even the dead don't know. They have no brain to experience it. There just is nothing! It is that simple. I cannot explain nothing. We can never comprehend nothing, not even in death.

 

I know that sounds sad to you (well except from all the negatives in live gone, although still tragic since we can't feel it anyway) but it is the most reasonable explanation to me. If you fear the absolute nothing that you won't experience in death then you simply try to be as happy as you can in life! (although it may not matter since you lose all that happiness when you die).

 

Let's just not think of death at all. What's really the point anyway. Let's think about life and enjoy life while we have it just for the sake of being happy now and just don't give a damn about the nothing at the end.

 

 

 

LIFE IS ABOUT THE JOURNEY, NOT THE DESTINATION!

 

Anyway that's some insight for what I believe on the afterlife... or lack of afterlife.

I do like the theory you suggested. If such a theory would be true then I'm sure those who believe in happy afterlife will be so happy to get there one day. For those who believe in a sad or bad afterlife then I feel sorry for them. For myself I suppose I cannot feel happy nor sad for myself since I will feel absolutely nothing, even less nothing than a void, all my conscience just gone. Which is okay (i'd say neutral, but even neutral implies I'd feel something). I don't care for afterlife anyway.

 

So how's life people?

[Feather Spiral 1,892]

"Is it possible that the afterlife is whatever the individual chooses it to be based on their belief"

I think there's a name for that philosophy, I've read about it somewhere but forgot the term. Personally, I've always considered that the most interesting and open-minded belief.

Same thing applies for life; you're watched over by entities you believe in, as a form of exchange for giving them power through your beliefs.

 

Another personal favorite of mine would be Slendermane's idea of reincarnating until you're spiritually mature. Bernard Werber, a French writer and thinker I've come to appreciate, made a whole novel series about a team of "explorers of death". In case you're curious and can read French, there are five books, in chronological order: Les Thanatonautes (literally "explorers of death"), L'Empire des Anges, Nous les Dieux, Le Souffle des Dieux, Le Mystère des Dieux.

 

But enough with the quoting and nodding now.

I'm giving my intimate personal opinion. Even though that's also been expressed in Swoop's post.

 

I believe we survive in the form of ideas, concepts, feelings. More than just memories in the heads of those who know us, but not quite our former selves.

Just like the body decomposes as a whole but its components do not disappear, the soul is fragmented and its parts recycled to build (and reinforce) others. Just like we are part of Nature and can't claim to fight/transcend it with "superior" knowledge and intelligence, we are in spiritual continuity with one another through space and time.

 

I'll admit, I can't imagine how that would feel. I probably wouldn't even notice, so it would feel the same as my current life. And if the continuity idea is correct, I'm already like that, and it just happens that this particular combination of my characteristics thinks of itself as "me".

Maybe that's why we don't CONSCIOUSLY remember our past lives. Because we never had them as a whole, but existed as a bunch of ideas and characteristics scattered across the world. And maybe we still do, that's why we find minds like us with their own consciousness.

 

And again, what applies after death is also true during life. You never stay the same throughout your life, or there would be no such thing as "personal progress".

Even the molecules in your body are constantly being recycled, nothing stays as it is. Proteins broken down to aminoacids to be reassembled in new (different or identical) proteins, fatty acids forming the membranes renewed... Only DNA remains globally the same, because it's such a friggin' huge macromolecule.

Likewise, your thoughts, personality... are ever-changing. As your environment changes (you learn more, you meet new people, you observe things you hadn't seen before...), you react to it (you judge, you experiment...); that changes how you think, how you act.

 

But as far as I can tell, we living beings can't comprehend things that happen in death. I'm pretty sure, however, that we can all have a grasp of how things happen in life.

So, I'll quote a poem here, from an Edward Monkton postcard purchased in London, that's pretty much paraphrased by Colton's bolded text. It's called Zen Dog.

"He knows not where he's going,

For the ocean will decide;

It's not the destination,

It's the glory of the ride."

 

A small note to those who say religions among themselves, or science and religion, are mutually exclusive: they're not. At least, in the contexts of their respective appearances, they weren't.

When prophets and other spiritual leaders arise,they're seeking to help and guide those around them as much as possible. That means what they say, the advice they give, obligatorily apply to those who live in their time.

Several centuries later, when things change and new possibilities show up, their teachings become obsolete and need to be adapted.

Unlike today's "advanced" Western culture, Ancient people knew that, and occasionally updated their sacred texts. Whoever thinks Ancient people really took their sacred texts to the letter, and ESPECIALLY those who bash religions on that basis, needs to get this through their modern skulls.

Edited December 11, 2011 by Feather Spiral

[Nah 3,182]

a great philosoraptor moment, that is an idea I have questioned for years, I am nonreligious in a religious family (with a bro that acts religious) So let it be a mystery, my opinion.

[Feather Spiral 1,892]

a great philosoraptor moment

[Viscra Maelstrom 3,718]

this reminds me of that MS Paint Adventures comic, the one with the Corgi. (warning, tearjerker)

 

the Corgi one day passed away. he didn't quite understand it at first, and found it weird that his master didn't acknowledge him anymore. eventually, he was told by God that he had died, and thus not bound to the living beings on the Earth. he was offered by God to stay in heaven, since this is the afterlife he was in. however, the Corgi refused to stay in heaven, and wanted to stay with his master, even if the Corgi couldn't physically interact with him. his wish was granted, and he stayed on the Earth, albeit in spiritual form.

 

he noticed that his master was having a rough time, and there seemed to be an evil presence haunting him. the presence told him to leave, or else they'd consume his soul. the Corgi refused, and fought back. he seemed to have been defeated, until he realized what it was he was fighting for. eventually, he destroyed the evil presence though.

with it being gone, he could finally do what he was here for: comforting his master in his dreams, watching over him constantly, for the rest of his master's life. they were together again.

 

when his master finally died, they could finally interact with each other in the afterlife. however, the Corgi was denied access to the heaven. God told his master that the Corgi had sacrificed his access to the afterlife in heaven, and instead decided to watch over him until his death. the Corgi sacrificed his own afterlife to watch over him and make his life bearable, he was told. he was able to get through his rough life with the spirit of the Corgi watching over him, and being there for him in his dreams.

 

so then the Corgi's master said goodbye to him, thanking him for what he had done for him. he then entered the passageway to heaven.

 

the Corgi, however, was left behind on the Earth. his task was done, his choice was set in stone. and now he was stuck on the face of the Earth as a spirit.

 

forever.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Viscra Maelstrom

[Feather Spiral 1,892]

There's another detail worth mentioning about that series

The dog spirit had been told he could wait in Heaven for his owner to die, so they could be together forever in Heaven. But instead, he chose to stay on earth and protect his master from anything that could bind him to the earth, so the man's ascension to Heaven would be assured - even if the dog couldn't be there to enjoy his company.

In other words, the corgi became earthbound so his owner wouldn't.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Feather Spiral

[Viscra Maelstrom 3,718]

ahh. i haven't read that comic in ages, so i might be a bit rusty on the details.