What was the fandom like back then?

[Skylight Scintillate 2,031]

On 2022-05-18 at 4:41 PM, Ring Team said:

I say "was", because there was a point where, if you had a complaint about G4, people who are called fans would either answer you in a condescending way or gaslight you in a way that everyone, including yourself, thinks you are the crazy person. That was my experience back in 2016, and after leaving he fandom in 2017 and then coming back right in 2020 just to finish the show, it's still my experience. Nothing has changed. The "fans" don't want interesting discussions or debates. They just want statements and yes-men.

So you are saying the forums here has this problem currently? And you seem to have a very detailed opinion about the fandom. Do you mind if you elaborate? I find your post very intriguing.

On 2022-05-18 at 4:41 PM, Ring Team said:

However, as much as these fanboys love having a sense of entitlement in a way that you don't have a voice, I still enjoy the show.

What do you mean by that? 

17 hours ago, Meson Bolt said:

I dunno what happened tbh, I took a break from the show 'round Season 7ish and by the time I got back it'd turned into a toxic fume pit.

I know you say that you aren't certain, but what do you think caused this?

[Meson Bolt 2,648]

2 hours ago, Skylight Scintillate said:

I know you say that you aren't certain, but what do you think caused this?

No idea really. I only watched a little bit of Season 7 before I was done with the show, so I can't say the show's content made it worse. I think that the rumors of the show ending and/or getting a movie may have contributed, people tend to theorize when sneak peeks get released, and with a show with fans as dedicated as bronies it may have pissed people off that their theories/ships/endings/fanfic didn't come true before the show ended.

[Ring Team 123]

4 hours ago, Skylight Scintillate said:

So you are saying the forums here has this problem currently? And you seem to have a very detailed opinion about the fandom. Do you mind if you elaborate? I find your post very intriguing.

To be honest, I don't think MLP Forum has that problem I described. I want to clarify this right now. Compared to other older forums and especially compared to Derpibooru, this place is pretty chill, which is neat. Even the fans who don't like G5 are very chill.

My experience with the fandom was weird to put that lightly. Back in 2011 and 2012, the fandom was absolutely great. I compared it to the vibes the film Luca gives because it was innocent in a way. Most people would agree it was such a fantastic show. And the artists and musicians were also great, so much that some of them inspired me to work on fanarts.

That said, I started to see little problems in season 3. My biggest problem was Pinkie Pie being flanderized. Whenever I said that, someone answered me that "she's a comic relief, give her a break", as if being annoying was her fate or something like that. However, in season 4 I started to have conflicting feelings with some creative decisions and whevener I share my thoughts, some people replied to me saying that "I was wrong". That forum even updated the rules saying "no talking trash about characters in the show". And I was like "really?".

I think back when No second prances aired in 2016, that's where I noticed a real shift in the fandom. Because of the way it was written, most people stopped seeing the Mane 6 being likeable and more like either "generic" or "Mary Sues". It didn’t take people a long time to be on board with this, to suck all the fun out of the show. It went from a show with all these unique different characters to the show where the most morally questionable character is only the “best” one.

My take on this is simple: Showing some neutrality themes in a very idealistic white and black happy cute world like My Little Pony doesn’t sound like a good idea. After all, the fun part about all these characters is watching these ponies doing the right thing, like Twilight, her friends and the Cutie Mark Crusaders. Asking for some ambiguity in this type of TV show is like asking for a writer to make Captain America more like an anti-hero than a great heroic character.

And when Starlight went back to manipulate other ponies, I asked why she would do that, and people gave me the reactions you'd expect:

-Redemption takes a long time (even though most of her actions were intentional and she repeated them).
-The Mane 6 also did stuff like this (as if pointing at another characters automatically solves the issue).
-You're a hater and you don't like new things (even though I love Tempest Shadow and she's factually a newer character than Starlight).

I even got this type of response in comics I've made that are harmless parodies.

When people start answering with claims like "you're just a hater", then of course I'm gonna question the fandom. But the fact that criticising Starlight became so taboo in the fandom was the knock out point to me.

If I don't like something, I just don't deal with it, I've learned it the hard way.

And by the way, if the Mane 6 were either generic or "Mary Sues", Friendship is Magic wouldn't have been as popular as it is in the first place.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Ring Team

[Jeric 46,851]

One of those dips directly correlates to the hiatus between Season 4 and Season 5. Twilight’s Kingdom was a ratings high for the show, and at the time it aired it had an epic flair that was well received in the fandom. This was shortly after I joined MLPF. The show was on hiatus from May 2014 and did not return until Easter weekend 2015. 
 

 

[Jeric 46,851]

To add the the above, a nearly year long hiatus can kill momentum, or allow interest to wane in younger populations. 

However, there is definitely a lot in that graph that needs to be unpacked. Peaks are easy to explain. The valleys … there are many reason for the drop in membership at times over the years. Elaborating would require an essay of changes to the forum and staff over the years, and how these changes impacted the users’ enjoyment of visiting the site. 

[SharpWit 2,647]

I think a lot of people within and outside of the Fandom forgot how much this show paved the way for others.

The legal merit of gay marriage was still being debated in the United States when we started. Men watching a show seemingly meant for little girls was a big deal, and seeing it become something so big when large groups were traditionally gathered for major sci-fi groups and superheros.

The nostalgia can stem from many things, but I personally I would say it comes from a sense of this being fresh and unique for the time, playing a considerably small role in what we could call the ongoing acceptance movement, but playing one nonetheless.

Back then, being a fan of ponies brought scrutiny from the majority of people. These days, they shrug their shoulders.

And to end things off, the music produced back then has become widespread and timeless within the community. Artists hit that sweet spot for popularity and few if any have quite been able to hit it since.

[J.J 923]

On 2022-05-24 at 3:22 AM, Ring Team said:

To be honest, I don't think MLP Forum has that problem I described. I want to clarify this right now. Compared to other older forums and especially compared to Derpibooru, this place is pretty chill, which is neat. Even the fans who don't like G5 are very chill.

My experience with the fandom was weird to put that lightly. Back in 2011 and 2012, the fandom was absolutely great. I compared it to the vibes the film Luca gives because it was innocent in a way. Most people would agree it was such a fantastic show. And the artists and musicians were also great, so much that some of them inspired me to work on fanarts.

That said, I started to see little problems in season 3. My biggest problem was Pinkie Pie being flanderized. Whenever I said that, someone answered me that "she's a comic relief, give her a break", as if being annoying was her fate or something like that. However, in season 4 I started to have conflicting feelings with some creative decisions and whevener I share my thoughts, some people replied to me saying that "I was wrong". That forum even updated the rules saying "no talking trash about characters in the show". And I was like "really?".

I think back when No second prances aired in 2016, that's where I noticed a real shift in the fandom. Because of the way it was written, most people stopped seeing the Mane 6 being likeable and more like either "generic" or "Mary Sues". It didn’t take people a long time to be on board with this, to suck all the fun out of the show. It went from a show with all these unique different characters to the show where the most morally questionable character is only the “best” one.

My take on this is simple: Showing some neutrality themes in a very idealistic white and black happy cute world like My Little Pony doesn’t sound like a good idea. After all, the fun part about all these characters is watching these ponies doing the right thing, like Twilight, her friends and the Cutie Mark Crusaders. Asking for some ambiguity in this type of TV show is like asking for a writer to make Captain America more like an anti-hero than a great heroic character.

And when Starlight went back to manipulate other ponies, I asked why she would do that, and people gave me the reactions you'd expect:

-Redemption takes a long time (even though most of her actions were intentional and she repeated them).
-The Mane 6 also did stuff like this (as if pointing at another characters automatically solves the issue).
-You're a hater and you don't like new things (even though I love Tempest Shadow and she's factually a newer character than Starlight).

I even got this type of response in comics I've made that are harmless parodies.

When people start answering with claims like "you're just a hater", then of course I'm gonna question the fandom. But the fact that criticising Starlight became so taboo in the fandom was the knock out point to me.

If I don't like something, I just don't deal with it, I've learned it the hard way.

And by the way, if the Mane 6 were either generic or "Mary Sues", Friendship is Magic wouldn't have been as popular as it is in the first place.

It's pretty funny you say that because it seemed like a much larger taboo the entire first year after her release to even like her or try to explain why... And I have to agree with Background Pony in a lot of ways, using your "logic", Discords moral ambiguity and literal betrayal should make him the WORST character in the show, is there ALSO a "moral grey area" that says villains can't make genuine friendships? What if Tirek was being genuine about their friendship? Now we know this wasn't the case, and I think you will reply something obvious about how Discord contributes to the plot bc of his questionable/chaotic behavior, but honestly if you open up your eyes, take off your Faust googles, where somehow villains like Nightmare moon are somehow considered good and characters like Luna even somewhat interesting, you will have to wake up, smell the roses and realize the show HAS GOTTEN BETTER, has MORE DEPTH.. do you hate moral ambiguity? Or do you just love Rainbow lasers that infinitely make the girls look like Mary sues in a way bigger sense, and that contribute no depth, understanding or perspective to the story? It's funny to me that a lot/most of these ppl that claim they "love Twilight" want to take away every achievement she's ever EARNED, her wings, princess hood, her school, even her "star pupil".. Starlight FIRST of all brings a lot to Twilight, she has given her the position of mentor, but above all these things Twilight has a new friend that she can FINALLY relate to, they both use magic efficiencently, they both are good leaders that make all the tough decisions and plans, they both LITERALLY finished one of Starswirls spells, they both have/had social anxiety, they both need each other for what I see as almost "sisterly advice" and it's hard for ponies like Twi or Starlight to give this to themselves, so they give each other a boost where it's needed with this rehotoric and reassurance. I honestly think Twilight was impressed with Starlight's magical potential, as she was moved by her transparency.. it makes A LOT of sense to me that Twilight would want to groom/study such a pony in the "art of friendship." We also know how vengeful Starlight can be, I don't know if that's a self eating snake you want to indulge. I know it's not an "excuse" but this is why Twilight is the princess of friendship and has a sense of obligation and humility and makes these "tough decisions" and you are just a cynical fan who didnt like the EVOLVING creative direction of the show. Back to Starlight however, she brings SOOOO much to this show, and

1. Understand that when Starlight lost her first friend BECAUSE of MAGIC, she probably initially became OBSESSED with magic, thinking she could catch up with Sunburst, later realizing it couldn't be and thinking that all friendships must require the use of magic, and if she couldn't use magic to keep her friendships intact I.E maintain control, than she surely would be alone, and other ppl would live under the false promise of believing they could live in an equal world with such different talents...

2. When she brought the ponies to "Our Town" Starlight herself had to make MANY concessions in upholding her own political dogmas and new culture, she left behind her family, a big part of her identity, she was living under the same rules as everypony in "Our Town" while also keeping it in order and making all the major decisions for it.. so even when Starlight was a "villain" she always had a "sense of obligation" or inherent responsibility, she had the magic, yes, but NEEDED the magic to continue the premise of cutie unmarking, and AT THIS POINT she couldn't be honest and tell them bc it would require the teaching of this magic to another pony that possesses magic to remove her cutie mark while also keeping the ritual of the "cutie unmarking" going. 

3. When Starlight "returns for revenge" she isn't returning with "the intent of destroying Harmony across Equestria" she is doing it with the intent of stopping a friendship from being formed.. Starlight has never met ponies with such prominent individuality before,(kind of why I think she is obsessed with Trixie) anyways, I don't think Starlight had some psychic intuition as a matter of fact WE KNOW it was never Starlight's intent to harm the total of Equestria, as she needs to be proven BY TWILIGHT what the future looks like with the elements separated, but this leads to a whole other Outlook, Starlight NEVER wanted to destroy Equestria, maybe dictate it's direction, change it's philosophy, but she GENUINELY believed that her magic and ideas alone could save the state of Equestria from befalling the same heartache of false promise she endured.

 

4. She is our "first villain" to not be bested by magic rainbow lasers, she did her homework and isolated the subject, she brought depth to the story and I thought gave Twilight a very defining moment, it was a REAL "magic duel" this time, and in the back of Starlight's mind, she's literally trying to put her goals "back on track" as we see her convincing filly Fluttershy and the bullies of her philosophy of equality, she still hasn't abandoned her perspective even when it had turned on her.. 

NOW this is a show about FRIENDSHIP and it's fandom even brandished the "mock label" of "love and TOLERANCE", So yes even starting with the shows WORST VILLAIN, Nightmare moon, a loud jealous nobody who makes some tacky illusions, hollers a little bit then gets rainbow blasted by ponies that have had no character development and have only known each other about 10 minutes, even this crappy over hyped character starts us out with our "theme of reformation", so eventually we get to Starlight Glimmer, this is OF COURSE AFTER, Nightmare Trash, Discord, Trixie, and of course even Sunset from EG.. bronies are getting tired of reformations and apparently haven't learned anything from "their favorite show". Bringing us back to Starlight, and ppl with your logic "Starlight doesn't deserve friendship bc she didn't initially know what friendship even is." NOW WHERE, have I heard this before?, "I used to wonder what friendship could be.." the pony whom I think she relates to THE MOST and let's take a step back and observe unicorn social dynamics/philosophy and their blatant anxiety/confusion, very individual, but Twilight had to essentially be assigned friends as homework, Trixie still only has one real friend to this day aside from the changelings and the others mutually and you see how she acts in public, Sunset, literally ran to another dimension with intent similar to Starlight's just a lot LESS WELL WRITTEN and thought out but with all the same intent on control and manipulation, Moon dancer won't even leave her house.. I don't see Unicorns of Canterlot as socialites as an absolute, it's more like a culture of socially detached nobles. You even see Fancy Pants has some off social cues and it makes him the only relatable rich pony lol but MORE IMPORTANTLY, Starlight, it probably meant the world to her having Sunburst(another social recluse more interested in knowledge than sentiments) We also see how "great a friendship" Starswirl is when he comes back... I know times were different, but the theme with these unicorns is social unawareness, a lack of emotional understanding.. so when Starlight lost a friend it was probably really hard for her to have come by, and as a Unicorn herself watching him evolve while she had to stay behind, it turned her into a magic savant, obsessed with using it to bend to her will never to be hurt by it or cutie marks ever again.

5. Back for a minute, but I'll wrap this up, Starlight's development is great, but if the show was portraying the Mane six as all powerful Mary sues, how did they get so easily sapped by a few changeling scrubs? How did these changelings manage to stealthily capture all the elements of harmony, all the alicorns, captain of the royal guard... How? Scrubs ... Lol JK, Or did you just mean "moral Mary sues" bc newsflash Twilight stays defective getting anxious over something as meaningless as a jeopardy game, but her an Applejack despite inconsistencies for plot convenience have ALWAYS been Mary sues.. Don't blame Starlight for doing the one thing this show was supposed to teach us how to do, her quest for genuine friendship/moral companionship accompanied by her already existing sense of obligation makes her inspiring and takes her to a lead role, she is a unicorn like I mentioned before, she isn't 100% "socially coherent" we see she looks everywhere trying to make a "new friend", it isn't something casual for them, look at how Moon dancer looked at the sentiment of friendship being broken, the broken trust, so they put a different amount of consideration and focus on it and casual friendship making isn't something that comes by them naturally 

6.  Starlight HERSELF may look like an "exaggerated Mary sue Twilight knock off" (she's way cuter than Twilight) but she's not a knock off in any way, when we see her tactical/moral triumphs in "To Where and Back" this is without the use of magic, this is with Thorax and Trixie and Discord as pony bait essentially, and giving her enough time to think it through.. basically the life of changelings sucked, Starlight is still small compared to Chrysalis, especially with no magic, her only hope was to "inspire change"... Corny but their gimmick is love fasting to begin with, so finding out they were genuinely capable of producing their own love was not just an ascension through animation but philosophically. Season 6 Starlight wins bc of tactics... Now let's jump to Season 7, Starlight wins because of REASON and I guess evolved emotional understanding. Imagine having locked stygian in a dimension of shadows forever bc Starswirl can't gtfo himself, or even different dooming ponies with an inevitable return, I mean Starswirl doomed the humans with the sirens, he's got a "not my problem" philosophy, when it's out of mind and at best convenience.. but more importantly Starlight has to remind your "Mary sue" you know the one who's lost all common sense bc of how starstruck she is, the one who is literally ignoring the obvious option, the "option" that gave her her pupil...(yes Twilight stays flawed) just aren't paying attention I guess, what was your first clue? The fact that one of her miscalculations literally put the entire world in jeopardy? You know the whole plot of the episode? BUT this was MORE IMPORTANTLY an ages old "friendship problem" between the pillars and their best friend. Mainly Starswirl and stygian who are probably very close to intellectual equals, stygian has probably helped Starswirl finish many a spell, he just interpreted his want for recognition and respect as jealousy, Starswirl needed to listen to his friends feelings, not just their advice.

Starlight doesn't get a cool red beam of light in a rainbow like our favorite highschool bad girl gone good, but she sure is responsible for the aided upkeep of harmony, and her actions and words have "inspired real change" not brainwashed or tricked or manipulated others, she became that pony she was always intended to be, the right way.. her bringing depth to characters like Maud and Trixie is just great in my opinion, yeah Starlight has her own friends to, she isn't a baby anymore, she doesn't need her hooves held the whole way through this character progression, you know Sunset steps up to the plate, but she puts a big emphasis on her idolization of Twilight, she looks to Twilight as a saving grace a little to much, and when she resolves her business it's a little more tacky bc it's not like a profound moral sentiment as much as it is flashy animation/magic that we will enjoy to watch.. Starlights action can be aesthetically pleasing, OR completely psychological/sociological, she just has the most depth and potential in this regard. Sunset I love, Starlight I adore. 

Ultimately Twilight needed a pupil, and Sunset wasn't coming back to befriend complete strangers, Moon dancer is kind of a complete after thought, Trixie is a champion for good NOW, and she did risk herself for Equestria, but she just doesn't have enough magic talent, and what I really love, is us seeing Starlight begin teaching Trixie magic, like she will be the next to teach or have her own student, she has her work cut out for her though lol, as we see Trixie's short attention span and self Indulgence will slow the process lol, but at this time you have to assume 1. If Twilight has a "pupil" it must be unicorn 2. It must be talented at magic. 3. It must need guidance in the ways of friendship 4. The people have to like/relate/want to see this character, it's more interesting to see people(specifically villains) have existential dilemmas or moral/purpose weighing decision making that changes the world, like Discord being called Pony Errand boy, and ultimately Starlight learning the difference between assimilation of behavior and a genuine culture built off the talents and differences of the many individualistic "creatures" living within it. I love her, I could go on for days about why she's the best, and I have MANY MORE, I DONT expect to have changed your mind, BUT, if you are interested in hearing EVEN MORE, let me know....