what was Starswirls plan

[PonyEcho 1,610]

(ok i'm sick and needed something to take my mind of it)

 

I've just been wondering what Starswell the bearded's goal was for the destiny spell because the result was becoming an alicorn and the spell required the Elements of harmony as a catalyst and even Celestia was apart of the spell (which is likely why she appeared in the twilight zone with Twilight) but.....

 

in the hearts warming eve episode we know that it was his apprentice Clover the clever who helped found Equestria and if we follow though the time line to Discord's rule, and then the appearance of Luna and Celestia to defeat Discord with the elements.

 

so its hard to tell the he would even be alive for that. so i'm wondering what is all going on or if this will be addressed in the show.

 

also the spell that happened to the other five as a result wasn't a change in destiny it was just that they had the others cutiemark mask over there's (much like cutiepox) but it was more of a itch to do it rather then them having that talent since it was a defective spell.

 

so would anypony care to help me figure this all out? why did he want to become an alicorn and how did he even know of them

Edited February 23, 2013 by PonyEcho

[Stalliongrad 982]

I said that Starswirl the Bearded purposely left the spell unfinished to see if anyone else is as good at writing magic as him. I think that he is going to be the next Antagonist or Major Supporting Character. I think that he has grown tired of being the best and he needs a challenge. I also think that he is the creator of many of the magical artifacts we see in Equestria. The Alicorn Amulet? Maybe even the Elements of Harmony were created by him. I doubt that someone as smart as him would not be able to see the magic of friendship. However if he was indeed unable to see it. Sorta like how Twilight was in the very first episodes she did not care about friends but only about written magic. That would mean that over the years Starswirl has become lonely and in leaving the spell unfinished he wanted to see if he could find a friend who shares a talent for magic. I think that i could grow to like Alicorn Twilight if someone like Starswirl were to come in and teach Twilight even greater things.

[PonyEcho 1,610]

I said that Starswirl the Bearded purposely left the spell unfinished to see if anyone else is as good at writing magic as him. I think that he is going to be the next Antagonist or Major Supporting Character. I think that he has grown tired of being the best and he needs a challenge. I also think that he is the creator of many of the magical artifacts we see in Equestria. The Alicorn Amulet? Maybe even the Elements of Harmony were created by him. I doubt that someone as smart as him would not be able to see the magic of friendship. However if he was indeed unable to see it. Sorta like how Twilight was in the very first episodes she did not care about friends but only about written magic. That would mean that over the years Starswirl has become lonely and in leaving the spell unfinished he wanted to see if he could find a friend who shares a talent for magic. I think that i could grow to like Alicorn Twilight if someone like Starswirl were to come in and teach Twilight even greater things.

yeah i've been thinking Antagonist. my theory is that he wanted more power (and to become an Alicorn) but knew he would never get it in his time so he left that spell specifically for Twilight to finish.

 

since he mastered the time travel spell its likely he could gaze into the future and foresee Celestia and the Elements and applied them to his spell accordingly or maybe he it passed down from master to apprentice and so on 

[King thorn 11]

As the saying goes " Power corrupts" I think that he wanted to learn every single spell in equestria, but couldn't because he didn't understand friendship.

 

But heres the interesting thing. Did the spell change starswill into something sinister because it was incomplete? You saw what the incomplete version did to the others so perhaps it changed his destiny when he casted it.

[Leafeon 2,701]

I was unaware there was a Starswell.

 

I'm pretty sure he was just an important figure. We have no information, other then that Twi looks up to him.

[Zygen 6,065]

I think he was just a very power hungry unicorn who wanted to learn any and all spells he could so he could become more and more powerful, but he couldnt complete the spell due to his lack of knowledge on friendship.

 

So I think it was just for power, I can't imagine why he wouldn't want to grow wings

[Scootalove 10,684]

His plan was to probably test Twilight, to see if she can finish a spell that not even he could not finish.

Probably another step to, finish his evil plan!

[Orablanco Account 3,706]

Dude, think about it...

 

Thus far, what have we learned about Starswirl:

1. He was the master of Anamorphic spells. Anamorphic means something along the lines of distorting, so prehaps that means that he was good at transformation spells.
2. He created a time travel spell, which Twilight tried to use to go back in time and change the future.
3. He was working on a spell that doesn't seem to have any purpose other than changing cutie marks.
4. I think it's safe to assume he was highest level unicorn, so he also had access to age spells.

Whether it was intentional or not, Starswirl seemed to be fixated on magic that could change fate, a strange intrest indeed, given that pony society and culture seems to value accepance of destiny.

 

And we also have to keep in mind that Starswirl couldn't complete that spell because he didn't understand the magic of friendship, which is also strange, since you'd think that someone of Starswirl's stature wouldn't be so ignorant to such a big part of Equestrian mythology.

 

Antagonist or not, I want to know what was up with this guy.

Edited February 23, 2013 by CITRUS KING46

[Rainbow RapiDASH 53]

I think until we know what actually happened to old Start Swirl,  I would think that the destiny spell was supposed to to change his ultimate fate.

[Tall_But_Short_37 233]

I think it makes perfect sense that Starswirl would've been attempting to turn himself into an Alicorn. He was undoubtedly one of the most brilliant unicorns (or ponies in general) of his time, so I could see him thinking himself worthy or wishing for a higher state like Twilight attains. He wanted power, but his thirst for power led him away from friendship, which kept him from obtaining power.

 

Here's where I believe him and Twilight take on separate paths (a lot of this is head-canon, just hear me out). Twilight would've liked nothing better at the beginning of the series than to have just stayed a recluse in Canterlot and study and read her books. Knowing her thirst for knowledge and innate magical abilities, she probably would've become a great unicorn even without going to Ponyville, perhaps even to Starswirl's level.

 

I believe that Starswirl was very similar to Twilight at this point. He was something of a hermit who stayed in his home all day reading and practicing magic. He likely had few friends, and this disconnect from the magic of friendship is what kept him from completing his spell to take him to the next level. He deduced the first half of the spell, but couldn't finish it, and died bitter and resentful because of it. Without knowledge of the magic of friendship, even a brilliant magician like Starswirl couldn't ascend to that higher state.

 

Chances are (correct me if there's anything to contradict this) that Celestia was around during Starswirl's time. She may have observed him and seen his mistakes. When she saw the immense abilities contained in filly Twilight, she was reminded of Starswirl, and saw more and more connections between the two as Twilight learned and drew more and more away from the world.

 

Thus, Celestia decided to direct Twilight off the path that Starswirl had taken.

 

Thus, Celestia sent Twilight to Ponyville to learn of the magic of friendship. The entire reason she took Twilight as a mentor was because she believed Twilight would be able to master friendship and through it, magic. Celestia may have had everything from sending Twilight to Ponyville to the final test of Starswirl's spell planned out from very early on in her relationship with Twilight.

 

To sum this up:

 

1. The goal of Starswirl's ultimate spell was to allow him to ascend to a higher Alicorn state
2. Twilight was a lot like Starswirl (magically gifted, reclusive, not many friends)
3. Without knowing of the magic of friendship, Starswirl could never complete the spell
4. Celestia saw Starswirl make these mistakes
5. Celestia recognized the similarities between the two unicorns and sent Twilight to Ponyville so she would not repeat Starswirl's mistakes
6. Because Twilight mastered the magic of friendship, she was able to master Starswirls spell and surpass him by becoming an Alicorn

I feel like I had more to add to this that was lost somewhere in my mind as I was typing it all out, so I'll return and edit this if it ever comes back to me...

 

 

 

Also, another thought that just popped into my head: Would it be possible for Twilight to go into the past and speak to Starswirl using his time-travel spell? It's a looooong period of time to go back, but in Twilight's powered up Alicorn state, it could be possible.

 

Perhaps in the next season, in the episodes which will be parts 2 and 3 of the finale, Twilight goes back in time to question him about his intentions, the true nature of his spell, and to sort out many questions she probably now has about her new existence that he may be able to answer.

[PonyEcho 1,610]

@@Tall_But_Short_37, 

 

yeah I don't think Celestia was around in Starswirls time when you consider the time line on events that too place

 

Starswirl's birth- he took on clover the clever as an apprentice- founding of Equestria- Discords fun- the apperance of Celestia and Luna to stop him- Crystal empire stuff- Luna becomes night mare moon.

 

my guesses are the he wasn't alive for the founding of Equestria or he was just rely old so he knew nothing of the elements of Harmony which were a catalyst to the spell and he likely never met Celestia who was also apart of the spell and while it is a possibility that StarSwirl became Discord from the Anamorphic spell, it was still a spell and the Elements would have like countered it and returned him to normal not to stone. 

 

(more coming soon)

 

It could actually all be in twilights head. That would be the best way to explain these continuity errors since Twilight's wouldn't rely calculate if Starswirl ever meet Celestia and it would explain why the episode went so easily  when resolving the problem and poof Twilight is sent to a zone, then Celestia appears out of nowhere   

Edited February 23, 2013 by PonyEcho

[Orablanco Account 3,706]

Why is it assumed that Starswirl was before the Age of the Alicorns?

 

Starswirl was already a respected sorcerer when the events of Hearth's Warming Eve happened, which seems to take place after Discord's reign (the flag already has the Alicorn Sisters on it, and it'd make sense for the land to be in such shambles and the ponies to be so bitter after being ruled over by the God of Chaos). As to where Sombra's banishment took place, I'd think it would be shortly after.

 

And Luna seemed to have known him personally, given that comment she made in Luna Eclipsed. Or maybe she's just a history buff.

[Jessper 735]

Obviously, Starswirl was trying to overcome his death by becoming alicorn and (probably) immortal and even more powerfull, eventually enough to rule over all the other ponies.

 

Of course this last episode kinda rises the question whether you can be born an alicorn or you have to become one in you life, which would mean Celestia or anyone else for that matter, is not a part of it at all, just helped Twilly a little bit.

[PonyEcho 1,610]

Why is it assumed that Starswirl was before the Age of the Alicorns?

 

Starswirl was already a respected sorcerer when the events of Hearth's Warming Eve happened, which seems to take place after Discord's reign (the flag already has the Alicorn Sisters on it, and it'd make sense for the land to be in such shambles and the ponies to be so bitter after being ruled over by the God of Chaos). As to where Sombra's banishment took place, I'd think it would be shortly after.

 

And Luna seemed to have known him personally, given that comment she made in Luna Eclipsed. Or maybe she's just a history buff.

because Discord appeared after the founding of Equestria and Discord nor the Alicorns are ever mentioned in the heart warm eve story conferming this.

 

the flag is just a flag and it is likely that they would not have a prop of the original flag of Equestria and use the current flag.

 

also for you're last comment so Twilight knew exacly how to make the costume (does she personally know him?) there are more ways to know what StarSwirl looked like. Luna could know him from stories about him or maybe for the legacy he pasted on. 

 

Obviously, Starswirl was trying to overcome his death by becoming alicorn and (probably) immortal and even more powerfull, eventually enough to rule over all the other ponies.

 

Of course this last episode kinda rises the question whether you can be born an alicorn or you have to become one in you life, which would mean Celestia or anyone else for that matter, is not a part of it at all, just helped Twilly a little bit.

pretty much yeah. but it still doesn't explain how Celestia and the Element of Harmony were apart of the spell if StarSwirl likely never met Celestia or knew of the element to apply them to the spell 

Edited February 23, 2013 by PonyEcho

[Jessper 735]

 

pretty much yeah. but it still doesn't explain how Celestia and the Element of Harmony were apart of the spell if StarSwirl likely never met Celestia or knew of the element to apply them to the spell 

 

Celestia is a notorious troll (even the real, canon Celestia), so it wouldn't really be that surprising if she modified the spell just to make Twilly turn Ponyville into crazy town and realise just what is so important to her in the process of fixing it.

Plus the elements were always there in one form or another, I think. And Celestia, she might've just visited Twilly in particular, not be a part of the spell in general.

[Orablanco Account 3,706]

I don't think it's obvious that he was trying to rule over other ponies. Heck, it's not even clear what the spell's purpose was; all we know is that it switched cutie marks, which may have been an unintended side effect. Even the writers have stated that they are unsure as to what it was supposed to do.

For all we know, all this interest in destiny alteration magic was for some benevolent reason.

[Azure Flames 302]

i like all your points and has change a lot of my views 

and now i have to rethink stuff 

and before this i agree with this video 

[Fhaolan 4,468]

What do we know about Starswirl?

 

1) He was a powerful unicorn who knew enough about magic to have an entire section of the Canterlot Library dedicated to him.

2) He created a limited Time Travel spell.

3) Luna, who was exiled for a thousand years, knew his appearance well enough to declare Twilight's costume to be historically accurate. So he predated the exile of Nightmare Moon.

4a) He wrote an unfinished spell that interacted with the Elements of Harmony to re-arrange the Bearer's destinies without them actually wearing them.

4b) That spell was unfinished because he did not fully understand the Magic of Friendship.

4c) That partial spell was castable by simply reading it out loud.

4d) Twilight finished the spell while speaking it out loud, and it interacted again with the Elements of Harmony taking Twilight to some Ethereal plane to speak with Celestia in order to fulfill *her* destiny. 

5a) Possibly not relevant, but in the toy line; G1 Star Swirl discovered the source of Rainbows. G2 Star Swirl came with a variety of magic tools (wand, amulet, etc.) G3 Star Swirl was an astronomer. And there is a G4 Star Swirl included in the Rarity's Royal Gem Carriage set. All of these were earth pony mares with highly variable appearances and cutie-marks.

5b) In the G1 series Megan wielded the 'Rainbow of Light' in much the same manner as the Mane 6 uses the Elements of Harmony in FiM, which also manifests as a Rainbow.

6a) He was the mentor of Clover the Clever before the founding of Equestria.

6b) The flag of Equestria used in the Hearth's Warming Eve play depicted Celestia and Luna. However, this may have been the modern flag of Equestria used purely for the play and not the actual historical flag of the period.

 

As Twilight might say, this is fan-fiction fodder at it's finest.

If I was to speculate, I would say that Starswirl was very interested in changing/discovering/modifying destiny, given his interest in Time Travel and the effects of his unfinished spell. He was trying to prevent something from happening, or to *cause* something to happen. If we pull in the 5) notes, it's possible he originally discovered the Elements of Harmony. Perhaps their interaction with the unfinished spell is the real reason it's unfinished, because he did not fully understand the Elements (representing the Magic of Friendship) and the spell was meant to discover *their* destiny, rather than specific ponies. Perhaps the unfinished spell is the reason why Celestia and Luna became linked to the Elements and became Alicorns themselves, and Starswirl didn't survive the event to be able to finish the work. Perhaps the 'Rainbow of Light' in G1 was the original singular form of the Elements of Harmony, and the unfinished spell shattered it into six pieces. The shuffling around of destinies was an unintended side effect from the Elements trying to reform into the singular Rainbow of Light again.

[Tall_But_Short_37 233]

@@Tall_But_Short_37, 

 

yeah I don't think Celestia was around in Starswirls time when you consider the time line on events that too place

 

Starswirl's birth- he took on clover the clever as an apprentice- founding of Equestria- Discords fun- the apperance of Celestia and Luna to stop him- Crystal empire stuff- Luna becomes night mare moon.

 

my guesses are the he wasn't alive for the founding of Equestria or he was just rely old so he knew nothing of the elements of Harmony which were a catalyst to the spell and he likely never met Celestia who was also apart of the spell and while it is a possibility that StarSwirl became Discord from the Anamorphic spell, it was still a spell and the Elements would have like countered it and returned him to normal not to stone.

 

Regardless of whether Celestia was alive during Starswirl's time, it's fully possible she still could've heard of his magic and was able to figure out the mistakes that kept him from realizing his full potential. She did have his diary after all.

[PonyEcho 1,610]

Regardless of whether Celestia was alive during Starswirl's time, it's fully possible she still could've heard of his magic and was able to figure out the mistakes that kept him from realizing his full potential. She did have his diary after all.

yes but it still doesn't exsplain the spell, it required the Elements of Harmony as a catalyst and Celestia was connected to it too.

 

if StarSwirl was not alive when Luna and Celestia stop Discord how could he make that spell fit so well.