The Nation of Equestria

[BalanceBrony 259]

I had an interesting thought. And I am not posting this to troll. Just imagine... what if bronies became a sovereign nation? Then we can start trying to make a bigger difference in the world. After all, we would all like the power to bring love and harmony to the world, right? The requirements are not many.

There are millions of bronies, which is bigger than some nations, so population is not an issue. Government... I'm sure we could pull it off. Direct democracy anypony? Write a constitution, and that's government handled. The only thing that would be troublesome is territory. But if we fundraised, and bought a building, that counts as territory right? It's possible... and then imagine what we could do.

 

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2008/02/25/how_to_start_your_own_country_in_four_easy_steps#sthash.xiO4uphv.dpbs

Edited December 12, 2013 by BalanceBrony

[Doctor XFizzle 8,651]

We pledge allegiance 

to the flag

of the U-neighted States of Equestria

and to the republic for which it stands

one nation

under Celestia

indivisible

with the magic of friendship for all

[Spartan 433]

A good idea, in theory.. but a terrible one in reality. Why? Simple, the problems the world faces can't be fixed by "Love and Tolerance" alone, or if at all. Plus, other nations will try to take over is some way.. now unless you plan on fighting, i think this 'brony nation' will fall very fast

[SanityNotIncluded 335]

 

of the U-neighted States of Equestria

Excellent pun my friend.

 

 

bought a building, that counts as territory right? It's possible... and then imagine what we could do.

In terms of how a country defines its own sovereignty, yes. Unfortunately it doesn't mean that other countries will suddenly recognise you (the Principality of Sealand is a good example).

 

__________

 

To address this thread in a non-serious manner: We actually had a serious topic about creating a religion which worships Celestia and Luna as deities, so I suppose we could incorporate that.

Thread: http://mlpforums.com/topic/81398-church-of-the-celestial-sisters/ 

 

To address this thread in a serious manner: I cannot foresee how creating a micro-nation for Bronies would help us spread the messages of the show. On the contrary, given that few countries take micro-nations seriously, it would pretty much just close us off from the rest of the world and portray 'Brony ideals' (if such a thing can be defined) as something not to be taken seriously.

[Malinter 3,064]

Another problem is I believe there is already a country in Africa called Equestria... we'd have to invade and destroy that first before we could build ours. two Equestria's would just trigger our leader's Twilight-like OCD.

 

A good idea, in theory.. but a terrible one in reality. Why? Simple, the problems the world faces can't be fixed by "Love and Tolerance" alone, or if at all. Plus, other nations will try to take over is some way.. now unless you plan on fighting, i think this 'brony nation' will fall very fast

 

Indeed, without an Orbital Friendship Cannon we have nothing to threaten the neighbouring nations with.

[BalanceBrony 259]

A good idea, in theory.. but a terrible one in reality. Why? Simple, the problems the world faces can't be fixed by "Love and Tolerance" alone, or if at all. Plus, other nations will try to take over is some way.. now unless you plan on fighting, i think this 'brony nation' will fall very fast

 

Excellent pun my friend.

 

 

In terms of how a country defines its own sovereignty, yes. Unfortunately it doesn't mean that other countries will suddenly recognise you (the Principality of Sealand is a good example).

 

__________

 

To address this thread in a non-serious manner: We actually had a serious topic about creating a religion which worships Celestia and Luna as deities, so I suppose we could incorporate that.

Thread: http://mlpforums.com/topic/81398-church-of-the-celestial-sisters/ 

 

To address this thread in a serious manner: I cannot foresee how creating a micro-nation for Bronies would help us spread the messages of the show. On the contrary, given that few countries take micro-nations seriously, it would pretty much just close us off from the rest of the world and portray 'Brony ideals' (if such a thing can be defined) as something not to be taken seriously.

Both clearly products of post-modernity. In our time, people think idealism is no good. It achieves nothing right? It's silly, right?

 

We recently had this discussion in my honours colloquium. The brightest students of the university in one room, discussing the roots of modernity, back in the revolutionary era. I believe we were doing our unit on thinkers of the American revolution. Somepony cut in "What about his policy? He has no plan. How could he possibly think that he would achieve anything?" Pretty much the same thing that spartan said.

 

My response, and the professor's response were the same. Just because somepony is talking in ideals does not make him invalid, nor does it mean that he can't achieve anything. Modernity has this failure in thought, where we somehow think that idealism is stupid, or useless. But ideals are the stuff of social change. Revolutions in philosophy and thought, while not directly giving their say on policy, do change policy, eventually, by changing the way people think. Before we wrote the Constitution, there was the Declaration, which was far less cut and dry. Before the Declaration, there were enlightenment thinkers waging idealistic battles which eventually gave rise to the very rights which we declared inalienable in that document. Were it not for idealists, we would've never considered some natural right of man, which all should have protected. Idealists drove the enlightenment and revolutionary periods, and made society able to change.

 

Will love and tolerance alone fix the world? Hell to the no. I'm not an idiot. But they will help. If ideals were brought back into political play, leaders would eventually start actually thinking about what their precious policies mean. In the minutia of hard numbers and empirical thinking, it all becomes monochrome, and we fail to acknowledge that humanity needs more than food, water, and oil. We forget about people's happiness. We need to bring big picture thinking to the stage. What does this mean for humanity? This thinking is good, no? And would certainly make a difference, right? Well that thinking exists in bronies.

 

What I am bringing to the table here is this. You can have all the "fancy mathematics" you want. But the world won't become better if that's all we care about. We are missing an important aspect of human life if we ignore idealism. And in fact, it is one of the most important. For what does it matter if you live or die, if your mind and souls are mechanical? You can have all the oil, food, and water you need, but still be an unhappy wreck if all you see is fighting, selfishness, and misery. And these things are  ideological issues, not empirical. War, selfishness, and misery are illnesses of paradigm, not of the physical realm. A change in thought would make these alleviated greatly. And only ideas can change thought. No fancy mathematics can make people happy. Policy needs soul as much as it needs facts, for law needs to be organic, just like the humans who it serves. That is my purpose.

 

Sanity- as far as being taken seriously is confirmed, we would be different. Other nations have declared sovereignty for very petty reasons in the past, for no real purpose, aside from discontent with their home country. But we would be different. We want to work towards what is best for the world, which is far more serious than "I don't like the stuff mommy country is doing, so I'll make my own." That would not be us. In fact, we could try to work it out that we can keep citizenship in our home country as well as Equestria, so it is clear that our reasoning is not petty discontent. We would be a nation of ideals, trying to bring something to the stage which is missing right now, but which is important all the same.

 

And even if we are not recognised, so what? We would still have the bare rights of a sovereign and a unity which is far more tangible than our abstract love of ponies. Some very basic power, along with new found inner strength from joining together to form this nation. Which makes us stronger even than where we are now.

Edited December 12, 2013 by BalanceBrony

[Scootalove 10,684]

If the bronies became a sovereign nation, we do have our rights as a nation to show everyone who we are. When you have a huge group that can support your strength and dedication together, you can accomplish anything.

[BalanceBrony 259]

If the bronies became a sovereign nation, we do have our rights as a nation to show everyone who we are. When you have a huge group that can support your strength and dedication together, you can accomplish anything.

My point exactly. The potential is there. We just need to coordinate in unity to become stronger.

[Scootalove 10,684]

My point exactly. The potential is there. We just need to coordinate in unity to become stronger.

Exactly! When a nation can come together as one in unity, they can become stronger and do anything that they put their mind to.

[SanityNotIncluded 335]

Thankyou for your rather detailed reply. My original post was quite lacking in content, so hopefully my reply will give you the same courtesy.

 

The best place for me to start is probably with something you said to Spartan. Namely, you state that idealism is crucial because idealists ultimately change the way people think, which in turn leads to practical changes. I am in complete agreement with you on this. Indeed, it would be silly to argue that our current system wasn’t at least in part, the result of what would’ve once been considered idealistic thinking.

 

However, the fact remains that not all ideas will change peoples’ minds as their creators desire. In fact, irrespective of their supposed merit, some will fade into obscurity and do very little to affect present day thought. This suggests that the journey from idealistic thought to thought change is a process, and that certain factors must be present in order for it to take place. You yourself emphasise the importance of personal conviction and I certainly don’t deny that this is important.

 

Unfortunately, I will argue that at least two other factors are necessary to change minds. Firstly, the ideas must be effectively spread, so that they may reach as many people as possible. This is for the simple reason that ideas cannot be built into change if few people know that they exist. Secondly, they must be presented in a manner which appeals to either current needs and ways of thinking, or those of some future time. This is because humans are not naturally prone to changing their minds. In fact, we tend to develop emotional attachments to those beliefs and ways of thinking we hold dear, causing us to reject foreign ideas pretty much on principle. You yourself talked about this in relation to Spartan’s response, did you not? – Namely, that his ‘knee jerk reaction’ so to speak was caused by failures in dominant modern thought, and that this dominance caused him to reject your idea.

 

Now, of course I can’t disprove the possibility of some future society finding ideological value in this micro-nation experiment even if it were to fail on a practical level. However, what we can influence is how the implementation of the idea affects how well it is received in the present, leading to a greater probability of it ‘taking off’ and influencing thought in the future. Returning to my original post, this is what I find to be the specific problem with creating a micro-nation. I agree that the underlying idea of creating happiness, love, tolerance and the like is a good one, and I don’t believe that practical constraints negate its worth. Nor do I deny the possibility of a micro-nation creating some favour towards our ideas.

 

However, given the requirements of thought change which I have outlined above, I believe that other methods of spreading our ideas have a greater likelihood of succeeding. To show this, I will first illustrate potential problems with a micro-nation (in relation to those requirements). Firstly, as I alluded to initially, by defining a nation in terms of your ideas, you run the risk of exclusively associating them with your nation, rather than the world at large that you wish to change. This limits the extent to which your ideas will spread since people see them as being ‘outside’ their own nation and thus incompatible with their current way of life. I understand that you mentioned the notion of dual citizenship (which many countries have), but the problem is more to do how easily people can take these values as their own. An individual may see him/herself as being a citizen of Equestria and holding all its values true, but this does not mean the same is true for a layman, for whom the barrier to entry is not just believing in ideals, but in expressing support for a tangible nation which to many people (particularly the international and political community) may be seen as a laughing stock. Thus, creating an isolated and unrecognised nation state for your ideals is likely to restrict their spread across the globe.

 

Secondly, the action of creating a micro-nation is unlikely to gain widespread support simply because in modern times, it is not custom to do so in order to change the ways in which people think. This would lead to a greater likelihood of casual dismissal which I discussed earlier. In relation to the passion you describe, I do not deny that hypothetical Equestrian citizens will have all the passion in the world, but this alone does not change the way that outsiders would think and moreover, dismiss us.

I will once again reiterate that these problems do not strip the underlying idea of value, remove the possibility of some future society using the nation as an example, or mean that you shouldn’t promote the underlying idea in a different way. What this implementation does do however, is make it less likely for the idea to take off in the present, which does decrease your overall chances of success.

 

Now that I’ve outlined potential issues with creating a micro-nation, it’s only proper that I suggest an alternative. Given that we’ve established that concrete plans aren’t exactly an issue, I feel a better and more wide-reaching solution would be a widespread charity/non-profit organisation. It would be setup using the fundraising money you described in your original post, and have the goal of promoting respect and tolerance, as well as acting to counter the constant negativity which permeates our society. This would be more likely to be accepted by the present community because

a. It would exist in every corner of the globe rather than fencing itself off, and

b. It would be spreading our ideas through far more accepted means (i.e charity work)

[Oblivion 20,265]

We pledge allegiance 

to the flag

of the U-neighted States of Equestria

and to the republic for which it stands

one nation

under Celestia

indivisible

with the magic of friendship for all

You sir just made my DAY!!!!!!!! omg I can't stop laughing!!!!!!

[Solid 1,326]

"We will forsake the Hate, we will leave all hatred behind us, and become one with this kingdom. We go fulfill our duty, fighting not for politics, not for reputation, but for Love. We will be the deterrence for those who love and tolerate yet have no other recourse, we are the Equestrian Unit, our purpose defined by the ideal of Friendship. We sometimes have to sacrifice our lives and dignity, if the Hate demands it, we'll be revolutionaries, homosexuals, lunatics...and yes, they will might as well send us straight to hell. But what better place for us then this? It is our last haven, our heaven, and our hell. This...is Equestria."

[BalanceBrony 259]

*snip*

 

One of the gifts I have is that I am able to read people, and that I am a good speaker. I know the right pressure points to hit with a given audience, which will influence most of its members. Thus far, i have seldom failed to move people with my words. But then again, I haven't had many opportunities to share my words. So far, I have proven decent. But experience is not an objective ruler.

 

That being said, I will wholeheartedly agree with the requirements needed for widespread thought change, and provide my plan as to how I will address the two issues of 1) Spread and 2) Receptiveness to the ideas.

 

Regarding spreading the ideas and making them known... well that is my whole purpose in trying to unify the bronies to go out into the world, and make ourselves known. My thought was this. A declaration of sovereignty would certainly put the spotlight on us. Then we need to make a ninja move and show what we stand for while the eyes are on us. Doing this is my way of trying to get attention drawn to us, so that our ideas can become known. The spread will be achieved by proving ideas have value, by successfully unifying, and staying unified through means of only pure shared values, and nothing else. If we can prove that ideas hold strength, even today, then we can begin working on the obstacle of modernity.

 

Our own success will not overcome the modern quandary because, as you point out, at first our success would be seen as an anomaly. "Ideas holding power? Nonsense. It must be something special about the bronies. Let them do what works for them." But you see, the answer to this problem is in the question. It is something special about the bronies. That something special is the fact that we have moved a step up from current thought. We are in a world which is becoming increasingly globalised. Simultaneously, people's national identities are weakening due to mass media, and the great discontent which we have with our leaders. People are looking for a solution. They want to know what society is doing wrong. So, the rhetoric we must use is a rhetoric which emphasizes the problem.

 

The problem, we know, is a cognitive dissonance of sorts. The world is becoming globalised, so individual identities are beginning to fade. At the same time, people want to keep their identity. The solution to this quandary is cliche "we are all human rhetoric" coupled with the teachings of Harmony, which show that we can in fact be one and many at the same time. I have used this rhetoric on numerous occasions, and people are usually quite receptive. The only problem I've had is getting these ideas known.

 

Here is the standard format of rhetoric which I use. It appeals both to the "we are all human" notion which modern citizens want to believe, while also maintaining their identities. In as few words as possible, here is the rhetoric which must be used on the world at large:

 

"No matter who we are, what our background is, or what we believe, we are all lone ships floating in the sea. And unless we build a larger ship, the waves will smash us to bits. People fear this, because they are afraid that they will be lost in the masses, but never think that. We do not need to change the intricacies that make us different. In fact, that is a horrid idea. It is our different ideas which will allow us to overcome. But the only way that can happen is if we learn to be open-minded, and to tolerate others, as the show teaches us. We do not need to change. We do not need to love. We just need to accept the reality, and tolerate each other to overcome it. The strongest teams are built from a wide variety of people, so it is imperative that, to best survive, we learn that everypony has value, yet another thing we see in Equestria. In short, we all like this show because we realise the truths which, if well-known, would make the world different."

 

Obviously, this was directed at bronies. But the essence of the rhetoric is the same which I would use on the world. It emphasises unity, but reminds people that you can be members of a group while still having your individuality. We only need to tolerate the differences between us, and learn that we all have things which would be helpful in achieving the things which we as humans need to survive. We don't need to love, or accept. Just deal with the reality of it. The reality is that we are all human, and we have our differences. But we still need the most basic things, such as resources, happiness, and peace. And these things are only achievable on a global scale if we learn to tolerate.

 

The ultimate selling point is this. We are all in this life together. And yeah, we're different people. But we all have the same basic needs as humans, and we all have the same goals in life, regardless of the path we take to reach them. Why make the journey more difficult by bickering? Learn that we are different, but we are all human, and then go from there. Obviously, in an actual speech, there would be far more build-up than the above.

 

When dealing with ideological things, rhetoric is slightly different. The only Ethos required is cohesive and understandable communication, and good presentation. Credentials don't matter in philosophy. Logos doesn't need to be as specific. The Logos of the argument is that we all have the same needs, and we are only making it harder by fighting. Most reasonable people would agree with this if it is emphasized enough. Finally, you can tell that even this small blurb has some aspect of Pathos by appealing both to where people are currently at, and where they want to be. In actual presentation, a build-up would permeate most of the speech, so by the end people will be overwhelmed with crushing Pathos.

 

So, what do you think? Do you think it's effective? I can provide a longer example for you, if you want the full effect of one of my unity speeches. Also, how would you approach the two issues of spread and modernity which you mentioned? Do you have ideas on how to appeal to the population of the world? Or the fandom, for that matter? You seem to be a very intellectual individual who has thought about these things at length already.

Edited December 14, 2013 by BalanceBrony

[Solid 1,326]

I started a brony/pegasister club in my school. Something like this.

[Silverhoof 2,839]

Well. If we get a country, my only advice is: Location, location, location.

 

We should locate New Bronystate next to some wussy countries so if we have to go to war, we will win  just by showing up. War is a lot more fun when the enemy breaks down and cries because you told him nobody likes him. I don't know if there are any emo countries out there but thats a good place to start.

 

Other things we need.

Coastline: Ocean front property. board walks and bikinis. important stuff there. especially bikinis.

Warm weather. If our nation is too cold...you will never see bikinis.

Mountains. if it gets hot in summer, you need a place to escape to. I want a cabin. But this isn't as important as bikinis.

Natural resources: this makes money. we all need money to buy bikinis n' stuff.

 

I hope this helps.

[Serbon div 386]

 

 

Write a constitution, and that's government handled.

One does not simply handle a government.

 

(And territory would be easily solved, there is unclaimed land somewhere in Africa, I don't know where exactly. Also Antarctica isn't claimed either)

 

And the ruler must be no other then Princess Feld0.