rainbow rocks Was it really Sunset Shimmer's movie? What could've been done differently?

[ManaMinori 4,144]

Personally, i think that one thing that could've been done was Rainbow Dash using her phone to record the Dazzlings using their dark magic and showing it to Principal Celestia, (or some more important authority figure that could do more than just get the Dazzlings kicked out of school) just like how someone was able to capture RD going ponified on their phone, and send it to hers.

Another thing....Sunset Shimmer's role. There were many times where she could've done more, if she really wanted to help her new friends, and prove that she turned over a new leaf. But she just stood around, watching her new friends argue most the time. It was Sunset, though, who came up with the idea to counter the Dazzlings' magic with the same kind of musical spell, and it was her who learned that the Dazzlings' necklaces were important to them, so why couldn't she have stolen them, after learning that they manipulate people through their songs, and that the jewels likely allowed them to do that?

I feel like though this is seen as Sunset's redemption movie, she didn't really do all that she could, or played as big a part as Twilight, who probably didn't even need to be there, period. Sunset saw her new friends powering up as they played, long before Rarity mentioned calling Twilight for help. Sunset was the one who proposed a musical counter spell- and even then, should've seen that the magic from just the friends playing together was enough to summon the magic, spell or no. It was Sunset who knew about the importance of the Dazzling's necklaces (but did nothing but sit on that information) and the one who got the arguing girls back together, so again- she could've done everything, without Twilight being summoned from her Equestrian world. But she didn't, and that's what upsets me. For Equestrian Celestia's prized pupil before Twilight, and likely capable of having ascended to alicorn status, had she learned friendship, you think she still would've held onto at least a fraction of those leadership qualities she once had, and take charge with things, when the situation calls for it.

(And just a nitpick, but if Big Mac could hear Spike talking, then why doesn't anyone else? Like, say, when Twilight's obviously talking to a dog in the middle of the gymnasium, after the whole "friendship is magiiiiiiiiiiiiiic!" Awkward moment....or even when they're sitting in the cafe, talking. And another thing....no one notices Rarity yelling for everyone to hear, about how a high school girl owns a castle? No one?)

[Jeric 46,836]

 

 

Personally, i think that one thing that could've been done was Rainbow Dash using her phone to record the Dazzlings using their dark magic and showing it to Principal Celestia, (or some more important authority figure that could do more than just get the Dazzlings kicked out of school) just like how someone was able to capture RD going ponified on their phone, and send it to hers.

 

The Principle and Vice Principle were already under the Siren Spell, which required a musical counter spell to be performed. I don't think that any amount of evidence would have worked.

 

 

 

Another thing....Sunset Shimmer's role. There were many times where she could've done more, if she really wanted to help her new friends, and prove that she turned over a new leaf. But she just stood around, watching her new friends argue most the time

 

Her hesitation to get involved was intentional by the writers. I personally think that this was a masterful approach as she was not yet comfortable in her own skin, and still felt like an 'outsider'.

 

 

 

It was Sunset who knew about the importance of the Dazzling's necklaces (but did nothing but sit on that information) and the one who got the arguing girls back together, so again- she could've done everything, without Twilight being summoned from her Equestrian world.

 

No one knew about that until they were defeated. Sunset only remarked that they were nice/pretty and Adagio became protective.

 

 

 

(And just a nitpick, but if Big Mac could hear Spike talking, then why doesn't anyone else? Like, say, when Twilight's obviously talking to a dog in the middle of the gymnasium, after the whole "friendship is magiiiiiiiiiiiiiic!" Awkward moment....or even when they're sitting in the cafe, talking.

 

Others can hear him talk. They heard him just fine in EQG. There was just no really need in the story to justify another reaction to this without it basically being a copy/paste of what we saw in the end of EQG. They all know he is a talking dog. So is your issue more along the lines that Spike didn't have enough lines?

[Guest]

Another thing....Sunset Shimmer's role. There were many times where she could've done more, if she really wanted to help her new friends, and prove that she turned over a new leaf. But she just stood around, watching her new friends argue most the time. It was Sunset, though, who came up with the idea to counter the Dazzlings' magic with the same kind of musical spell, and it was her who learned that the Dazzlings' necklaces were important to them, so why couldn't she have stolen them, after learning that they manipulate people through their songs, and that the jewels likely allowed them to do that?

 

Regarding this point, Sunset is still an outsider in the group. Despite her apparent acceptance, a level of separation can be inferred from the Humane 5 not including Sunset in the Rainbooms (despite having spent more time as friends with her than Twilight, who gets an instant invitation). Furthermore, the rest constantly refer to Sunset's bad past, which doesn't help Sunset feel part of the group. Taking this into account, its understandable Sunset remained on the sidelines. She even said it herself that she wasn't sure if it was her place to say anything, perhaps because the subtle separation between her and the rest made her feel that way. The fact she does intervene at the end emphasises Sunset's selflessness as she puts aside her own doubts to help everyone else out. Also, remember when she did try to help previously by intervening when RD was showing her magic? Only AJ sided with her whilst the rest turned on her, you can see why she would be hesitant to intervene. 

 

 

I feel like though this is seen as Sunset's redemption movie, she didn't really do all that she could, or played as big a part as Twilight, who probably didn't even need to be there, period. Sunset saw her new friends powering up as they played, long before Rarity mentioned calling Twilight for help. Sunset was the one who proposed a musical counter spell- and even then, should've seen that the magic from just the friends playing together was enough to summon the magic, spell or no. It was Sunset who knew about the importance of the Dazzling's necklaces (but did nothing but sit on that information) and the one who got the arguing girls back together, so again- she could've done everything, without Twilight being summoned from her Equestrian world. But she didn't, and that's what upsets me. For Equestrian Celestia's prized pupil before Twilight, and likely capable of having ascended to alicorn status, had she learned friendship, you think she still would've held onto at least a fraction of those leadership qualities she once had, and take charge with things, when the situation calls for it.

 

 

 

Despite Twilight's presence (which is simply necessary for any MLP tie-in), I thought Sunset outshone Twilight in this movie. Twilight may have been viewed as more important to the cause by the Humane 5, but IMO it seemed as if Sunset was the more necessary component throughout.

Even Twilight realises that at the end: "Sunset Shimmer, we need you!"

I love Sunset, whilst Twilight's presence somewhat undermines her to an extent, Twilight is the most popular MLP:FIM character and a necessary component of the show and EG. Furthermore, the scenes of Twilight and Sunset together were perhaps some of the best moments of the movie, and Twilight's acceptance of Sunset is the most significant moment of her redemption. 

[ManaMinori 4,144]

The Principle and Vice Principle were already under the Siren Spell, which required a musical counter spell to be performed. I don't think that any amount of evidence would have worked.

nor will WE know, either, because they didn't even try it, to see if it would work. if I recall, in the first movie, everyone was under Sunset Shimmer's spell, also, but yet they all seem to remember what happened, and held it against her. How is this any different from them being under the Dazzling's spell, and still recalling the events when it's all said and done? Especially if we consider that the persons under the musical spell might have said spell wear off in time. It's heavily implied that the Dazzling's were in that world for a long time, since Starswirl sent them there ages ago, and they must've been using their voices - however weak their powers were back then, to control people since way back then, even when they got to that world. So what of the people they controlled back then? Would they still be under the spell (because a musical counter-spell hadn't turned them back, seeing as how they were from the past, before Twi ever came), or would they have snapped out of it, once the Dazzlings moved onto someone else?

 

 

 

Her hesitation to get involved was intentional by the writers. I personally think that this was a masterful approach as she was not yet comfortable in her own skin, and still felt like an 'outsider'.

In spite of it being shown many times that the Mane 5 were the only ones who welcomed Sunset into their group, forgiven her for her past "boo-boo's", was the one to alert them all to something being 'off' about the Dazzlings, offered the suggestion for the musical counter spell, ect ect. Hard to see how Shimmer still feels like an outsider when she's welcome amongst them and offers such helpful suggestions when they need it.

 

 

No one knew about that until they were defeated. Sunset only remarked that they were nice/pretty and Adagio became protective.

Uhhh, Sunset Shimmer did. Right from the start. She remarks on how pretty the necklaces were, Adagio grabs her hand, and directly states that the necklaces were "extremely important to them", which Sunset seemed to immediately question as the 'something's totally off about these girls' alarms went off in her head. And halfway into the movie, when the Dazzlings are singing right in front of their group for the 2nd or 3rd time, the connection should've been made that it was those extremely important necklaces that were the cause of it all, and action taken to separate the necklaces from the Dazzlings. (and THEN, maybe hit everyone with a counter spell) But the fact remains that Sunset did, in fact, know how important the necklaces were, and sat on that information, without taking action.

 

 

 

Others can hear him talk. They heard him just fine in EQG. There was just no really need in the story to justify another reaction to this without it basically being a copy/paste of what we saw in the end of EQG. They all know he is a talking dog. So is your issue more along the lines that Spike didn't have enough lines?

ok, you might be right on that. I forgot that ONE guy freaked out, at the end of the first movie, upon hearing Spike, so I guess the entire remainder of the student body would also be ok with it, because DHX plot convenience.

[Jeric 46,836]

nor will WE know, either, because they didn't even try it, to see if it would work. if I recall, in the first movie, everyone was under Sunset Shimmer's spell, also, but yet they all seem to remember what happened, and held it against her. How is this any different from them being under the Dazzling's spell, and still recalling the events when it's all said and done?

 

 

Muffins, they said 'Counter-Spell' twelve times. They basically beat it over our head that it was the only way. This is one of the oldest story telling tricks in the book. 

 

 

Twilight Sparkle: So maybe the way to use that magic to defeat the sirens is by playing a musical counter-spell! 

Rainbow Dash: Let's get to learning that musical counter-spell!

Rainbow Dash: I doubt it. So, Twilight, how is that counter-spell comin'?

Twilight Sparkle: Just looking over the counter-spell. We only get one shot at this. It has to be perfect.

Twilight Sparkle: Just looking over the counter-spell. We only get one shot at this. It has to be perfect.

Rainbow Dash: I think it's pretty obvious what's going wrong with this counter-spell.

Twilight Sparkle: What? But it's not ready! If we play our counter-spell in the first round and it doesn't work, the sirens will know what we're up to and make sure we don't get a chance to play it again!

Rainbow Dash: We compete in the Battle of the Bands for real! I take over lead vocals again and we stay alive until the finals! We unleash the counter-spell then! [to Twilight] You'll have figured it out by finals, right?

Sunset Shimmer: You still sounded much better than most of the other bands. I'm sure you'll make it to the next round. But it won't matter if you don't have that counter-spell ready. You all find a place to practice where the sirens can't hear you. I'll keep an eye on things around here.

Sunset Shimmer: This is it! Last round and you're in the finals! Unless you think the counter-spell is ready to be played now.

Twilight Sparkle: Maybe it doesn't even matter that we're trapped down here. I don't think the counter-spell would have worked anyway.

Rarity: Ooh, which version of the counter-spell are we going to play?

 

 

Considering that we saw on screen Luna and Celestia were not under the Siren's Spell ... it's a jump to say anything else. Also there is the fan theory that some magic is invisible. 

 

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In spite of it being shown many times that the Mane 5 were the only ones who welcomed Sunset into their group, forgiven her for her past "boo-boo's", was the one to alert them all to something being 'off' about the Dazzlings, offered the suggestion for the musical counter spell, ect ect. Hard to see how Shimmer still feels like an outsider when she's welcome amongst them and offers such helpful suggestions when they need it.

 

 

She wasn't fully embraced by the Mane Six, at least in her own mind. They kept bringing up her past, which left her feeling isolated. She internalized this and it was a driving force behind many of her decisions in Rainbow Rocks.  

 

Applejack: Don't worry, y'all. We'll let Principal Celestia know all about this and those girls will be kicked to the curb in no time. Last thing she needs is another CHS event almost ruined by some power-crazed lunatic. [to Sunset] Er, no offense.

Rainbow Dash: So let's take them down! It's not like we haven't tangled with dark magic before and totally whooped its sorry butt! Uh, no offense.

 

Twilight Sparkle: Hmm. My crown was returned to Equestria, but some of its magic must have remained here at Canterlot High. Now that we're all back together, we can use that magic on the sirens. Just like when we were able to use it on Sunset Shimmer when she turned into that horrifyingly awful winged monster! No offense.

Sunset Shimmer: [disgruntled] None taken. Heh. I'm used to it.

Sunset Shimmer:  Must be nice to have everyone always looking to you for answers to their problems... instead of waiting for you to cause a problem. 

Twilight Sparkle: Just because everyone expects something from you doesn't mean it's guaranteed to happen. Sunset Shimmer: Well, that doesn't stop them from expecting it. Twilight Sparkle: Which only makes things harder because the last thing you want to do is... Twilight Sparkle and Sunset Shimmer: ...let everybody down.

 

Sunset Shimmer: Ever since you started this band, you've been letting little things get to you. I never said anything 'cause I didn't feel like it was my place. Not when I'm so new to this whole "friendship" thing. I still have a lot to learn

 

 

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Uhhh, Sunset Shimmer did. Right from the start. She remarks on how pretty the necklaces were, Adagio grabs her hand, and directly states that the necklaces were "extremely important to them", which Sunset seemed to immediately question as the 'something's totally off about these girls' alarms went off in her head. And halfway into the movie, when the Dazzlings are singing right in front of their group for the 2nd or 3rd time, the connection should've been made that it was those extremely important necklaces that were the cause of it all, and action taken to separate the necklaces from the Dazzlings. (and THEN, maybe hit everyone with a counter spell) But the fact remains that Sunset did, in fact, know how important the necklaces were, and sat on that information, without taking action.

 

 

That is not a factual recalling of events provided by dialog. 

 

 

 

 

Sunset Shimmer: [nervous laugh] Those are pretty. Where did you—

 

 

 

Adagio Dazzle: [laughs] Sorry. These pendants mean an awful lot to us. We'd just hate for anything to happen to them.

 

 

 

 

 

Applejack: So how was the tour?

 

Sunset Shimmer: I don't know. I mean, these girls, they were... There was something off about them.

 

Sunset Shimmer: That's just it. I can't put my finger on it. They just acted sort of... strange around me. Maybe someone already talked to them. Told them about what I did. [sighs] So much for making a good first impression.

 

 

Notice that Sunset was had NOT made the connection. She was concerned that it was her image. She was self conscious about how others viewed her since she was trying to turn over a new leaf. She guessed Dark Magic when she saw the reaction of the students during and after the Lets have a Battle song. But no, Sunset was more focused on acceptance than the big picture. That was a huge focus of this film. As far as when they figured it out:

 

 

 

Sunset Shimmer: Guess that explains why these were so special to them.

 

Twilight Sparkle: Without those pendants and the magic you brought here from Equestria, they're just three harmless teenage girls.

 

 

 

 

---

 

So I understand that in the end, you can say that you would have preferred specific story elements to go X instead of Y, but you can't say Y didn't make any sense ... because it did. 

[Darkest 2]

Sunset was still the enjoyable character we know in EqG2. She wasn't evil anymore, but she was cute, at least.

[ManaMinori 4,144]

Sunset was still the enjoyable character we know in EqG2. She wasn't evil anymore, but she was cute, at least.

I'm not saying Sunset wasn't enjoyable. She was, and i really do like how they made the second movie about her redemption (though I honestly wish she could've gone back to Equestria with Twilight). Her character is one of my new favorites. She's cute and adorable, and I had to go out and buy her pony just yesterday (and am still waiting for a Full sized Funko pony of her). I just wish she could've DONE more throughout the movie BECAUSE she's such a good character and the movie was about turning her around. I guess I'm just a little miffed that the majority of the movie was about everyone thinking they needed Twilight and relying on Twilight and omg, Twilight, where's the counter spell?! -insert eye roll here-

when they could've asked more for Sunset's help the entire time, as she was also a student of Celestia, with natural magical talent and ability, they kept rubbing her past 'boo-boo's' in her face, so that should've made her want to rectify her image, more, and DONE more.

[Gurugurujaan 25]

I think I understand what you're trying to say. You really just wanted Sunset Shimmer to have more interactions because you think her role is vital. She's a really cool character, well rounded and everything. Perhaps there could be more scenes with her acting on instinct like she did tackling Rainbow Dash...

 

Although, I personally think that it was nice to show how tentative she was despite knowing something was wrong. It's a great piece of character development, I think.

[Lunas Sorrow 21]

Personally, i think that one thing that could've been done was Rainbow Dash using her phone to record the Dazzlings using their dark magic and showing it to Principal Celestia, (or some more important authority figure that could do more than just get the Dazzlings kicked out of school) just like how someone was able to capture RD going ponified on their phone, and send it to hers.

 

 

 

my assumption is, one the girls (RD,Rarity, Sunset etc etc) didn't know that it was magic they probably assumed that it was a stunt that they (the sirens) did to gain attention (take note that twilight and the gang did this too in EG), two the green mist is only there for the audiences benefit also i think that you require a certain magical sight to see it ergo the ponyfied versions are the only ones that can see the green mist also why the green mist doesn't cause a panic

 

 

 

 

 

Another thing....Sunset Shimmer's role. There were many times where she could've done more, if she really wanted to help her new friends, and prove that she turned over a new leaf. But she just stood around, watching her new friends argue most the time. It was Sunset, though, who came up with the idea to counter the Dazzlings' magic with the same kind of musical spell, and it was her who learned that the Dazzlings' necklaces were important to them, so why couldn't she have stolen them, after learning that they manipulate people through their songs, and that the jewels likely allowed them to do that?

 

 

 

I think that Sunset herself doesn't feel included in the gang yet, my guess is that becoz she is from equestria (and i assume) that she has some knowledge of the elements of harmony(that there are six and that the owners of the six are already defined) that she felt that she had no place to intervene and that her intervention might worsen the somewhat shaky bond she shared with her ONLY friends in canterlot high

 

 

as for the necklaces it was implied that only at the end of the battle of the bands did sunset figure out that the necklace was important  

 

 

 

(And just a nitpick, but if Big Mac could hear Spike talking, then why doesn't anyone else? Like, say, when Twilight's obviously talking to a dog in the middle of the gymnasium, after the whole "friendship is magiiiiiiiiiiiiiic!" Awkward moment....or even when they're sitting in the cafe, talking. And another thing....no one notices Rarity yelling for everyone to hear, about how a high school girl owns a castle? No one?)

 

to put this simply not everyone actually takes that much notice in their surroundings so its safe to assume that even if spike(dog form) talks they just assume that theres a dude nearby talking or that its just not that important for them to be that distracted over it, and its kinda normal to talk to dogs nowadays as its already common knowledge that talking to your pet actually helps develop a stronger bond

 

as for the thing rarity shouted, unless its "FIRE!!!" or anything of great importance people will assume that its just a normal teenager thing and wont take it much to heart, also EG RR is (i assume) close to our timeline techwise the castle thing could just be safely categorized as either something from a movie,game or even a book,  

 

 

just to put it out there i think the Equestria Girls: Rainbow Rocks was done nicely and unlike the 1st movie didn't feel rushed in anyway 

Edited November 4, 2014 by Lunas Sorrow