Drawponies tracing scandal!

[Dark Qiviut 22,378]

Ya i read about this on EQD and while i do understand its a kin to lip singing at a concert, bottom line is that this all isnt exactly going to be sitting in a museum or art gallery somday.

 

And even if the artest is creating a 100% hand drawn peice, i want too see all the offical licences that the rest of the pony art community uses in they're copying of Fousts original concepts in the first place.

 

So unless your Hasbro, with an offical contract and copyrights, every last peice of fan created BS is plagiarized.

 

I couldnt care less if it was traced, id buy them and just not give a rats plot what anyone thought about it.

 

I swear the fandom loves to raise a stink about the littlest of things while still wallowing around in its own messes

You show a complete lack of understanding the problem.

 

Fanart, in itself, isn't plagiarism. Fanart can be considered copyright infringement. However, you don't see companies go after them for at least two reasons:

1. The fans appreciate the product, and fanart is one way to express their appreciation.
2. Many people don't make a living off of it. Stuff like vendors are usually sold only at vendors. Commissions operate similarly, because they're negotiable between the fan and client.

Plagiarism is the act of taking something established and claiming it as your own by not giving proper credit. This is unethical on all levels. This is what Draw Ponies did: he traced official assets, claimed them as his own, and then proceeded to make lots of money as a result. He's a very popular artist, but rather than doing correctly, he took wooden PEDs to get ahead. Considering how hard so many people work on their craft and barely get any attention, it makes their time feel wasted.

 

The underlined portion of what I wrote is one of the biggest reasons why many portions of the fandom are seething. Plagiarizing is horrid enough. But he made thousands of dollars off it, from the Patreons to vendors to commissions (the latter even worse because they're expecting everything to be hand-crafted). That's scamming, and he did this for several years, but no one had the hard evidence. He's only apologizing now because he got caught plagiarizing on his live stream, and his PR tried to cover his ass the first time around.

 

This is a really big deal. Calling it little is marginalizing the consequences of plagiarism.

 

What is the difference between an exact copy of the shows art style done by eye, and an exact copy of the shows art style done by tracing? The extra effort? 

Aren't both technically plagiarizing the art style worked on so hard by the animators? 

There's a completely big difference. People like Pixelkitties and Toxic-Mario worked tirelessly to build into the show style. But it wasn't constructed immediately. It took a lot of time and patience to get to this point. Pixelkitties's show-style drawings come from years of both practice and experience.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[Argumedies 1,748]

^ Honestly. Considering how psychotic some people have been in this thread this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but just playing devils advocate here, since people seem perfectly fine with show style ponies.

 

What is the difference between an exact copy of the shows art style done by eye, and an exact copy of the shows art style done by tracing? The extra effort?

Aren't both technically plagiarizing the art style worked on so hard by the animators?

Im not loosing any sleep over it.

You show a complete lack of understanding the problem.

 

Fanart, in itself, isn't plagiarism. Fanart can be considered copyright infringement. However, you don't see companies go after them for at least two reasons:

• The fans appreciate the product, and fanart is one way to express their appreciation.
• Many people don't make a living off of it. Stuff like vendors are usually sold only at vendors. Commissions operate similarly, because they're negotiable between the fan and client.

Plagiarism is the act of taking something established and claiming it as your own by not giving proper credit. This is unethical on all levels. This is what Draw Ponies did: he traced official assets, claimed them as his own, and then proceeded to make lots of money as a result. He's a very popular artist, but rather than doing correctly, he took wooden PEDs to get ahead. Considering how hard so many people work on their craft and barely get any attention, it makes their time feel wasted.

 

The underlined portion of what I wrote is one of the biggest reasons why many portions of the fandom are seething. Plagiarizing is horrid enough. But he made thousands of dollars off it, from the Patreons to vendors to commissions (the latter even worse because they're expecting everything to be hand-crafted). That's scamming, and he did this for several years, but no one had the hard evidence. He's only apologizing now because he got caught plagiarizing on his live stream, and his PR tried to cover his ass the first time around.

 

This is a really big deal. Calling it little is marginalizing the consequences of plagiarism.

 

There's a completely big difference. People like Pixelkitties and Toxic-Mario worked tirelessly to build into the show style. But it wasn't constructed immediately. It took a lot of time and patience to get to this point. Pixelkitties's show-style drawings come from years of both practice and experience.

No quite the contrary, i do understand... I just dont care.

 

Everyones turned into the latest witch hunt and i refuse to grab my pitchfork over something this meaningless.

You show a complete lack of understanding the problem.

 

Fanart, in itself, isn't plagiarism. Fanart can be considered copyright infringement. However, you don't see companies go after them for at least two reasons:

• The fans appreciate the product, and fanart is one way to express their appreciation.
• Many people don't make a living off of it. Stuff like vendors are usually sold only at vendors. Commissions operate similarly, because they're negotiable between the fan and client.

Plagiarism is the act of taking something established and claiming it as your own by not giving proper credit. This is unethical on all levels. This is what Draw Ponies did: he traced official assets, claimed them as his own, and then proceeded to make lots of money as a result. He's a very popular artist, but rather than doing correctly, he took wooden PEDs to get ahead. Considering how hard so many people work on their craft and barely get any attention, it makes their time feel wasted.

 

The underlined portion of what I wrote is one of the biggest reasons why many portions of the fandom are seething. Plagiarizing is horrid enough. But he made thousands of dollars off it, from the Patreons to vendors to commissions (the latter even worse because they're expecting everything to be hand-crafted). That's scamming, and he did this for several years, but no one had the hard evidence. He's only apologizing now because he got caught plagiarizing on his live stream, and his PR tried to cover his ass the first time around.

 

This is a really big deal. Calling it little is marginalizing the consequences of plagiarism.

 

There's a completely big difference. People like Pixelkitties and Toxic-Mario worked tirelessly to build into the show style. But it wasn't constructed immediately. It took a lot of time and patience to get to this point. Pixelkitties's show-style drawings come from years of both practice and experience.

No quite the contrary, i do understand... I just dont care.

 

Everyones turned this into the latest witch hunt and i refuse to grab my pitchfork over something this meaningless.

 

Its bandwagon mob metality over a peice of crayon art and one of the most pointless arguements in this.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Argumedies

[Coco before Pommel 678]

This is really gross - I wouldn't have a problem with tracing in itself, if it was just for fun and not for profit, then whatever. But the fact that this guy has made SO much money out of selling his stuff that is traced straight from the show is just...wow o_O It's not fair to the talented artists in this fandom who work so hard on creating their own unique style, and it's definitely not fair to the people who have paid extortionate amounts of money (more than official merch, which is basically all DP's stuff is, just with a better choice of vectors admittedly) for art from this guy. Maybe if it was just a few pieces he'd sold it wouldn't even be that big of a deal - but DP's made a straight up business out of stealing Hasbro's copyrighted property and selling it to fans under the false illusion that he, y'know, actually sold them something original. Most fan artists, while maybe profiting from it is technically illegal(? I don't know the legalities), at least try to have their own style, something different to what the show already gives us, and also I'm pretty sure most fanartists don't actually make a living off selling their art alone - I mean, when it gets to DP's level, is it even really "fanart" anymore if it's basically a business of people churning out traced artwork.

 

I do think he deserves to be shut down, tbh - and I'm surprised Hasbro haven't, considering the things they've gone after before and the amount of money DP's making. I think he owes the community (and in the case of people who bought stuff, maybe even a refund) a serious apology, and to stop selling traced stuff altogether. If he wants to trace just for fun/non-profit works, then that's fine, I couldn't care less. I wouldn't say he deserves to be "driven out of the community" or whatever - if he's truly sorry, then he could be forgiven in time. But before that, he definitely needs to apologise, own up to what he's done and stop profiting of traced art.

[BayoUni2847 528]

After all of the shenanigans that have followed this story, this comment is the best response to the story.

 

 

If Hasbro steps in to lay down a punishment, so be it. After Hasbro is done laying down the legal hammer, let him learn from his experience, and not be an ass.

 

 

[Dark Qiviut 22,378]

No quite the contrary, i do understand... I just dont care.

 

Everyones turned into the latest witch hunt and i refuse to grab my pitchfork over something this meaningless.

 

Its bandwagon mob metality over a peice of crayon art and one of the most pointless arguements in this.

Actually, you don't understand! Plagiarism is a very big deal because it's dishonesty under the guise of something genuine. Rather than just stealing, he's claiming it as his own, and good part of his fortune/business comes from it. He lied to the fandom, his watchers, and the people who bought his work/commissioned to him.

 

To say you don't care shows a complete lack of understanding art integrity. Millions of people work their asses off to become good and get the recognition. Thousands of creative bronies work thousands of hours honing their craft. He took the easy way out and swindled for several years. By making his scheme a business, he's robbing other bronies the chance to get their art recognized. By lying to everyone, he gives the entire brony art community a bad name. The screenshot that @ posted is right on the money.

 

Plagiarism affects everybody, even if they don't know it. It affects you, me (and I was a victim of plagiarism several years ago), and everyone else. If you don't care, won't take a stand, and simply tolerate it, then you're telling everyone here, especially Draw Ponies, that it's okay to lie and deceive.

 

It's — NOT!

Edited April 21, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[Aleh 481]

Actually, you don't understand! Plagiarism is a very big deal because it's dishonesty under the guise of something genuine. Rather than just stealing, he's claiming it as his own, and good part of his fortune/business comes from it. He lied to the fandom, his watchers, and the people who bought his work/commissioned to him.

 

To say you don't care shows a complete lack of understanding art integrity. Millions of people work their asses off to become good and get the recognition. Thousands of creative bronies work thousands of hours honing their craft. He took the easy way out and swindled for several years. By making his scheme a business, he's robbing other bronies the chance to get their art recognized. By lying to everyone, he gives the entire brony art community a bad name. The screenshot that @ posted is right on the money.

 

Plagiarism affects everybody, even if they don't know it. It affects you, me (and I've been the victim of plagiarism before several years ago), and everyone else. If you don't care, won't take a stand, and simply tolerate it, then you're telling everyone here, especially Draw Ponies, that it's okay to lie and deceive.

 

It's — NOT!

psh. Still fine not to go mental and want to witchhunt.

Fandoms bloody mental in that regard xD

 

[Duster Dawnhorse 248]

I'm mad for several reasons. The big one being "I'm an artist that vends and this cheating jerk ruins it for the rest of us" but I have a lot more words.

Tracing is artistic dishonesty. He's been lying to you guys. He's STILL lying to you guys! Things he said he never traced has been proven to be traced. He has zero remorse and is only putting out that patronizing insult of an apology because he got caught. I would've been forgiving if he came clean on his own but nope, it took his own fans turning on him for him to be truthful. Only when his business was threatened did he talk. That's not love for the fandom, that's greed.

There's a lot of responses here that seem to be repeated over and over so I'm just going to paraphrase. GENERAL YOU'S ABOUND.

"LOVE AND TOLERATE!"
Okay first off, that saying is dead and cliche. Second, "tolerating" means putting up with something. So basically you're telling us to put up with lying and scamming people out of their money with a fake product. I dunno why you're okay with tolerating lying but I'm not. If we're gonna derive from the show, remember that one of the Elements of Harmony is HONESTY.

"He just traced some stuff, big deal! He didn't trace everything!"
Let's say you have a friend that lies a lot. He tells you something and swears that this time he's telling the truth. Are you going to believe him? No because that's the inherent nature of lying! Once one lie is exposed, everything else you do is called into question. Because if you're willing to lie about one thing, what's to say you won't lie about something else? Hell even in Drawponies' statement, he said Adapting to Night was never traced. That's been proven to be untrue. He's still lying which leads to the next point.

"He apologized! What more do you want?"
And he objectively lied in his apology. Why should anyone accept it after that? It just proves he's more interested in saving his own skin than making amends. If he really is interested in making amends, he'd start telling the truth.

"Ugh, fandom drama witch hunts! Tracing isn't a big deal! Calm down!"
It is to artists like me who work tirelessly to improve our craft to create something original for the fanbase.

Let's put it this way, you're working on a big essay for a contest. You've worked really hard, you've fact-checked and proofread this thing to hell and back and spent tons of time polishing this essay. You feel awesome about it and you're sure that contest is yours to win. But someone else just downloaded their essay off the internet, wrote their name on it, and turned it in. And they win the contest.

Wouldn't you be pissed off? You worked so hard to make something original only to have someone cheat! And win by cheating! That's how artists feel when someone traces their way to fame.

I'm shocked and disgusted by the amount of people who are okay with this. It's a spit in the face of all the artists you love that work hard to create content for you guys.

[yeet 2,026]

It's not like all of his work was copied. It was really just the comics and things needed to be done quickly. I don't know if people notice, but each call of duty is basically a trace of the previous one when you think about it. No one gives a shit about that And it isn't different, because there is still some original stuff in each call of duty, but they do pretty much trace it from the older ones. 

[Luna the Great of all the Russias 2,978]

It's not like all of his work was copied. It was really just the comics and things needed to be done quickly. I don't know if people notice, but each call of duty is basically a trace of the previous one when you think about it. No one gives a shit about that And it isn't different, because there is still some original stuff in each call of duty, but they do pretty much trace it from the older ones. 

You're allowed to copy from yourself and still call it your own.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Tsaritsa Luna

[yeet 2,026]

I'm quite certain you're allowed to copy from yourself.

Touche XD I was just thinking that after I sent it XD but still, you get my point. He may have been a dick and traced it, but meh, call of duty is basically the same each year. XD I'd rather buy some traced art that looks good than a game that is the same as last years one

[Luna the Great of all the Russias 2,978]

Touche XD I was just thinking that after I sent it XD but still, you get my point. He may have been a dick and traced it, but meh, call of duty is basically the same each year. XD I'd rather buy some traced art that looks good than a game that is the same as last years one

A more accurate game analogy would be like... A team makes their own FPS game that they want to be like Call of Duty. But instead of studying the mechanics of Call of Duty by analyzing player movement, weapon damage, map designs, etc. They outright use Call of Duty's source code.

[Guest90210 3,568]

psh. Still fine not to go mental and want to witchhunt.

Fandoms bloody mental in that regard xD

 

 

Bingo. This is seemingly routine for this fandom, to overreact to a minor story. It's eye-rolling to see a fandom built and grown upon multiple levels of copyright infringement in its own right, up-in-arms about a guy selling some traced show art (as if it would have looked much different in the first place had he drawn it by hand. His style is already close to the show to begin with). Yeah it was lazy and dishonest of him, and he already said he's going to stop tracing, but was it enough to desire a witch hunt, to wish his fans would curse at him, and to wish he was living on the damn street? Give me a break.

[guest243535531ty43 219]

What he did was completely wrong. He deceived people about the nature of his work and then sold it under that deception. This dishonesty and plagiarism is a serious ethical issue and could have legal implications.

 

But I think the best way to deal with him is with your wallet and your clicks. Don't go to his FB and DA pages and don't buy his stuff (unless you believe he has sincerely changed for the better and don't take this issue as seriously). No need to make this a bigger drama than it already is.

Edited April 21, 2015 by estoc

[Silver Letter 1,832]

A plagiarist and a thief! That person and any group he works with is blacklisted from my patronage forever and ever!! When next time I go to a con, I will write a letter demanding they get banned if they aren't already shut down by then! I am so furious since I've bought things from those scam artists before! Anyone want a blanket? I'll get rid of it for half of what I paid and I'll even pay the shipping!!!  

 

 

I'd rather buy some traced art

Even though if stolen, it is not art.

[Aleh 481]

 

 

Even though if stolen, it is not art.

Ok I'm sorry but thats just wrong >.<

Even with the whole "Plagarism is bad thing" literally ANYTHING is art. 

I mean for Gods sakes a picture of an upside down toilet is like, famous level art.

And whilst bits of other peoples work were incorporated into his work, its still got a LOT of original parts, meaning on the whole. It.. Kind of is?

 

(More arguing about the whole "its not art" thing than anything. Can have your own opinion about how the guys some sort of psychopath for tracing and selling art )

[Silver Letter 1,832]

 

 

something this meaningless.

If you think plagiarism is meaningless then I wonder why that is the case?

[simba86 1,541]

Well it looks like he is no longer welcome to vend at the everfree pony con and more will probably follow suit.With everfree not letting him vend I think the other cons will probably not let him vend anymore either, also looks like he lied even more in his apology http://www.horse-news.net/2015/04/drawponies-scandal-day-3-final-word-on.html

[Silver Letter 1,832]

Even with the whole "Plagarism is bad thing" literally ANYTHING is art. 

As long as it's original. People make their own interpretations of MLP all the time. That is art because it is unique. Just like copying a dissertation doesn't mean that the person that stole it can claim the words and the message as their own. Plagiarists are the lowest of the low. Thieves and vile people.

 

 

Well it looks like he is no longer welcome to vend at the everfree pony con and more will probably follow suit.

Excellent. About time that plagiarism doesn't pay!

[Aleh 481]

As long as it's original. People make their own interpretations of MLP all the time. That is art because it is unique. Just like copying a dissertation doesn't mean that the person that stole it can claim the words and the message as their own. Plagiarists are the lowest of the low. Thieves and vile people.

>Their own interpretations

Pfft. Thing is, I've said this before but is a show accurate character completely copied from the shows style really your own interpretation of the character? Could it not also be counted as plagarism? >.<

Also are you discounting the art value of the rest of his stuff? Including parts of the same picture? >.< (I.e: The work put into the writing, the backgrounds, and generally the rest of the characters apart from like the head. And even then its usually edited heavily)

Why does something that'd be art anyway stop being art because he traced part of it?

 

[simba86 1,541]

As long as it's original. People make their own interpretations of MLP all the time. That is art because it is unique. Just like copying a dissertation doesn't mean that the person that stole it can claim the words and the message as their own. Plagiarists are the lowest of the low. Thieves and vile people.

Excellent. About time that plagiarism doesn't pay!

yeah, I think he was making like 20k+ a year or more doing it, hopefully the other conventions will block him to. He already lied for years and he still is in his apology so how can anypony trust him now?

[Silver Letter 1,832]

>Their own interpretations

Pfft. Thing is, I've said this before but is a show accurate character completely copied from the shows style really your own interpretation of the character? Could it not also be counted as plagarism? >.<

Also are you discounting the art value of the rest of his stuff? Including parts of the same picture? >.< (I.e: The work put into the writing, the backgrounds, and generally the rest of the characters apart from like the head. And even then its usually edited heavily)

Why does something that'd be art anyway stop being art because he traced part of it?

 

Because it's stealing! When paying homage to others, real artists go out of their way to make sure they look different enough even if they are good enough to legitimately copy something perfectly like a style. And in the end, people can tell the difference. It's the difference between copying style and stealing it. The difference between me trying to write like Jane Austin and just stealing her words.

[Argumedies 1,748]

If you think plagiarism is meaningless then I wonder why that is the case?

No, what is meaningless is this whole arguement as if this traceing thing is the end of the world.

 

What i find ignorent is that the fandom tends to forget that they dont own the copyrights.

 

They tend to forget that its Hasbro that owns the intelectual property right to anything with the my little pony: friendship is magic name attached to it.

 

From every video to fanfiction to plushy made bought and sold is a copyrighted item including original fan made artworks

 

So what if he made money off a traced peice, fans all over this are makeing money off property that isnt theirs to begin with.

[MischiefHowl 37]

I didn't care if he traced. It was the selling traced work that was bad. But at least he apologized, I know many artists that wouldn't apologize nor care if they were found out. At least he said he was sorry. So, as long as he doesn't do it again I'm letting it go. He's still one of my best artists. Tracing doesn't and won't ever matter to me.

[Silver Letter 1,832]

No, what is meaningless is this whole arguement as if this traceing thing is the end of the world.

 

What i find ignorent is that the fandom tends to forget that they dont own the copyrights.

 

They tend to forget that its Hasbro that owns the intelectual property right to anything with the my little pony: friendship is magic name attached to it.

 

From every video to fanfiction to plushy made bought and sold is a copyrighted item including original fan made artworks

 

So what if he made money off a traced peice, fans all over this are makeing money off property that isnt theirs to begin with.

Well, they can stop anyone that makes any money off of it then if they truly wish to. If you wish to boil down all fan works as copyright infringement anyway then they would be all the same. I'm only looking at it from a perspective involved with integrity, not one based on the law. I think there is a difference between making art inspired by something and just copying it. In my opinion. Your opinion must be that tracing is good. But if a person has to trace to make art then they can't draw. They have no self-respect or dignity. Sure, Hasbro can make life difficult for anyone that makes any fan art; even those that are not sold for money. But gladly, they don't. I hope it's because they can see some value in how artists can make a genuine effort at creating something beautiful that may have been inspired by something else.

 

 

Tracing doesn't and won't ever matter to me.

Then you are missing the point.

[Starlight Fan 538]

I am very very disappointed cause I actually liked the work that drawponies did. 

 

You know I feel the pain artists feel here, because people work so god damn hard on art and this loser skates on by and makes MONEY from TRACING. Something any 6 year old with a pen or marker could do. I have seen people tracing and recoloring (Equestria Stories) and they aren't shunned by the community, but they also aren't making money, but It's all the same. Point is if you wanna draw art LEARN SOME ART and actually put some effort in.       

Hey, but ES never claimed it to be theirs, and stated openly that they took assets from the show. 

That's why I dislike Drawponies, but not Equestria Stories.