Discord is the real Mary Sue

[cider float 2,539]

Yeah it is. So far I've seen the following characters being called out for being a Mary Sue

 

Twilight Sparkle

Cadence

Fluttershy

Pinkie Pie

Rainbow Dash

Discord

 

Am I missing anyone?

 

Anyway yeah the label is being so misused to the point where I, very reluctantly, have to agree with Jerry Peet that the term has become fancy internet speak for "this character I don't like". I still have huge issues with that video.

Well depends on how they say it. I have beef with Discord's abilities not his personality or how he is characterized. If I just said "I hate Discord." There wouldn't be more to discuss on that matter now would it. Haven't heard the Cadence, Pinkie Pie, Fluttershy and Rainbow Dash ones but none are at the same level as DIscord that's for sure.

[Conred 274]

I agree with OP. Discord is too powerful. He can defeat any future threats in equestria by a snap of finger, and it wwould be boring

There 3 ways to solve:

- Nerf him or ban him completely (stone him, put him on the bus...)

- More powerful villain (control time/fate powers, Starwirl-like or even something can compete element of harmony..)

- Weaker villain but gain higher advantage (some unlucky situation, nasty villain with crazy-prepared...)

Solution 2 and 3 are more awesome than stone him )

Maybe i watch too much anime...

He doesn't need nerfing. People who call him Gary Stu have no idea how many flaws his characters have. He is very egoistic, weak minded and naive. Tirek was able to convince him in just moments. Heck he just turned villain not so long ago when he thought that Fluttershy is abandoning him. Just have Chrysalis change into Fluttershy and you have her controling Discord like a weapon.

 

The only real Mary Sue in this series is Celestia with no development but still trying to act as "wise godmother" and autohority to all Equestrians. The only more bland characterisation than her is Flash in Equestria Girls.

[The Coffee Pony 1,390]

Being a near god-like being does not a mary sue (or in this case, Marty Stu) make. There's quite a bit more to it than that.

 

Discord doesn't meet the criteria because while he is a godlike being he has his weaknesses. As a villain he was extremely arrogant in thinking that nobody could beat him and that arrogance ended up being his downfall twice. When he was supposed to be capturing Tirek he ended up being corrupted by Tirek's charasima and allied himself with him showing just how weak-minded Discord is. Not only that, Discord actually believed that Tirek was his friend and ended up only learning his lesson about who his real friends were when Tirek stabbed him in the back. In the last episode he displayed just how possessive he is and needed Fluttershy to chew him out. To say that he's a Marty Stu is quite wrong.

Edited May 28, 2015 by The Coffee Pony

[cider float 2,539]

He doesn't need nerfing. People who call him Gary Stu have no idea how many flaws his characters have. He is very egoistic, weak minded and naive. Tirek was able to convince him in just moments. Heck he just turned villain not so long ago when he thought that Fluttershy is abandoning him. Just have Chrysalis change into Fluttershy and you have her controling Discord like a weapon.

 

The only real Mary Sue in this series is Celestia with no development but still trying to act as "wise godmother" and autohority to all Equestrians. The only more bland characterisation than her is Flash in Equestria Girls.

 

Seriously I see that in lots of god modded characters people make up. Always they get quick to anger, turn on their friends, sort of personality as their weakness how are those weaknesses when none of them can hurt him? Tt doesn't change that he has too much power. Even if someone is using him he is still the one with the power.

 

I highly doubt he can die either since the mane six can only petrify hm but not kill him the way Sombra was.

[Luna the Great of all the Russias 3,015]

Mary Sue is the correct term to describe Discord. Snap your fingers and change whatever you want. He just wishes it and it happens. Captain America is perfect morally and completely incorruptable yet he is not known as a Mary Sue. Galactus, Hulk, Phoenixx and Discord are Mary Sues.

Well he is this thing you call the representation of chaos (perhaps the god of chaos if you will?) so it makes sense for him to be quite powerful; I see his magical ability to be an inherent trait of his character or compliments it. Also, nerfing Discord would mean that Celestia has no use for him which would make his de-stoning... well... what's the point of that episode then?

 

@@The Coffee Pony pretty much covers what I was going to say and then some. You can be as powerful as you want, but if you're incompetent your enemies (and friends) can still exploit you. Shouldn't Tirek be more of a Mary Sue then? Despite initially being very weak, Tirek was able to become extremely powerful in the shadows and was able to use Discord for his plans. His downfall was not due to a character flaw, but more so not having any idea about the locked box.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Tsaritsa Luna

[cider float 2,539]

Well he is this thing you call the representation of chaos (perhaps the god of chaos if you will?) so it makes sense for him to be quite powerful; I see his magical ability to be an inherent trait of his character or compliments it. Also, nerfing Discord would mean that Celestia has no use for him which would make his de-stoning... well... what's the point of that episode then?

 

@@The Coffee Pony pretty much covers what I was going to say and then some. You can be as powerful as you want, but if you're incompetent your enemies (and friends) can still exploit you. Shouldn't Tirek be more of a Mary Sue then? Despite initially being very weak, Tirek was able to become extremely powerful in the shadows and was able to use Discord for his plans. His downfall was not due to a character flaw, but more so not having any idea about the locked box.

I'm glad that you brought all that up. Even as a villain I found Discord way too powerful. Here's the thing if he was a villain and lived over 1000 years, can create his own dimensions, shapeshift himself and other things/others, can change the minds of others and doesn't even strain to do any of this and finally he can't die just turn into stone. Tirek was a villain so in many ways villains in stories are excused to be overpowered a bit to become a challenge to the good guys and he still had to drain magic from other ponies before he did become powerful anyway. Logically Discord could still put him out at his super powered state. There is no magic that made one immune to Discord's reality bending powers except for the Elements of Harmony maybe but Tirek has not shown to have that ability.

 

Discord as a good guy it made it even less interesting. I just don't see the mane six in danger anymore of anything. They got a Discord in the pocket. Celestia did send Discord after Tirek after all.

 

Also if he's depowered there's not reason for Celestia to have him stoned again because he's not a threat anymore.

Edited May 27, 2015 by cidershield

[KatonRyu 1,033]

I don't think having god-like powers makes Discord an uninteresting character. Yes, he's technically a good guy now, but he still enjoys chaos and mayhem because he is the very embodiment of those things. He wouldn't just whisk a villain away immediately because he would enjoy the chaos that would ensue from their presence.

 

In the Season 4 opener he just let the ponies struggle to find out what was going on despite being able to tell them that his own 'seeds of darkness' or whatever it was they were called were the entire problem. He wouldn't step in until he would consider the situation to be a threat to his friends and by that point the villain in question might well be beyond his particular power to deal with, either by negating all magic, absorbing it or even countering it.

 

He has the power to change the world by thinking about it, but he's chaotic and supremely arrogant so he wouldn't use his powers in a traditionally constructive way simply because that's not his nature. In my opinion, his personality balances out his godlike powers.

[Luna the Great of all the Russias 3,015]

I'm glad that you brought all that up. Even as a villain I found Discord way too powerful. Here's the thing if he was a villain and lived over 1000 years, can create his own dimensions, shapeshift himself and other things/others, can change the minds of others and doesn't even strain to do any of this and finally he can't die just turn into stone. Tirek was a villain so in many ways villains in stories are excused to be overpowered a bit to become a challenge to the good guys and he still had to drain magic from other ponies before he did become powerful anyway. Logically Discord could still put him out at his super powered state. There is no magic that made one immune to Discord's reality bending powers except for the Elements of Harmony maybe but Tirek has not shown to have that ability.

 

Discord as a good guy it made it even less interesting. I just don't see the mane six in danger anymore of anything. They got a Discord in the pocket. Celestia did send Discord after Tirek after all.

 

Also if he's depowered there's not reason for Celestia to have him stoned again because he's not a threat anymore.

I don't think there's any particular trait of the magic of friendship that protects against chaos except that it's immensely powerful. And I think the fact that Tirek was able to leech Discord's magic was evidence that Discord's powers were far inferior to Tirek's at that point.

 

He could have defeated Tirek initially but he didn't. Why? Because he's arrogant. Doesn't matter if he was more powerful than all alicorns and villains combined, his character flaw has been exploited and lead him to his defeat him despite his power (like Royal sisters and Mane6 who were given easy shot at him, and notably Tirek who exploited Discord's desire for former glory). Power is one thing, how one handles it is quite another.

 

And the Mane6 no longer in trouble? He was the first to fail when trying to search for Tirek and he was not involved in dealing with The Town.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Tsaritsa Luna

[Castle Bleck 19,390]

1. Got petrified twice.

2. Couldn't manipulate Fluttershy.

3. Couldn't break Celestia's protective spell on the Elements.

4. Got infected by a Tatzlwurm (presumably making him too under-the-weather to use magic for a while).

5. Got played and magic-drained by Tirek.

6. Had a Lesson Zero-like breakdown due to Tree Hugger.

7. Got publicly zinged by Maud.

 

...

 

{sarcasm}My God, what a Villain Sue.{/sarcasm}

Edited June 27, 2018 by A.V.

[Taviscratch 453]

Please can people stop throwing around the term "Mary Sue" as if it means something. It is not a legitimate character criticism. There is nothing wrong with a character being powerful. Not all characters must be "relatable". You are boring and any character you can "relate to" is likely to be boring too. Is Gandalf a bad character merely because he took on a Balrog single-handed and won? Is Geralt a bad character because he is faster, stronger and tougher than a regular human? Would you prefer all powerful entities to be removed from every story because they are a "Mary Sue" and it's just not right for characters to be anything more than mundane and ordinary? Must all character be as boring as you?

 

Note: the "you" in this post is plural and is directed at anyone on this thread who actually uses the term "Mary Sue".

[Shanks 10,816]

By this same logic nearly every comic book superhero and quite a few anime/manga heroes could be called Mary Sues/Gary Stus as well. Yes a character who is overpowered to the point where it dosen't make sense for the story is a type of Mary Sue but Discord dosen't fit that category. Discord is the MLP equivalent of a trickster god like Loki, Wiraqucha, or Seth, the only reason why he is not called a "god" is because it is not a politically correct term. Simply put he represents chaos itself which is a force of nature, arguably one of the most powerful forces of nature. What makes a character a Mary Sue or not is character traits but it is also characterization or the role a character plays in the story. If Discord was a main character as opposed to a secondary character than he would be a tad closer to that status.

[Nuke87654 1,849]

So are we just gonna start calling everyone a Mary Sue now?

 

Discord is a mary sue!

 

Twilight is a mary sue!

 

Celestia is a mary sue!

 

Everypony is a mary sue!

Edited May 27, 2015 by Nuke87654

[Castle Bleck 19,390]

If you want real Gary Stus / Villain Sues, then go look up Sosuke Aizen, Madara Uchiha, Master Xehanort, etc.

Edited June 27, 2018 by A.V.

[Nuke87654 1,849]

If you want real Gary Stus / Villain Sues, then go look up Sosuke Aizen, Madara Uchiha, Master Xehanort, etc.

 

Those guys nearly killed their respective franchises with all the retcons needed to explain whatever deus-ex-machina powers/plans they'd unveil next.

 

I thought Ichigo was the mary sue of Bleach?

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

He doesn't need nerfing. People who call him Gary Stu have no idea how many flaws his characters have. He is very egoistic, weak minded and naive. Tirek was able to convince him in just moments. Heck he just turned villain not so long ago when he thought that Fluttershy is abandoning him. Just have Chrysalis change into Fluttershy and you have her controling Discord like a weapon.

 

The only real Mary Sue in this series is Celestia with no development but still trying to act as "wise godmother" and autohority to all Equestrians. The only more bland characterisation than her is Flash in Equestria Girls.

I

 

He doesn't need nerfing. People who call him Gary Stu have no idea how many flaws his characters have. He is very egoistic, weak minded and naive. Tirek was able to convince him in just moments. Heck he just turned villain not so long ago when he thought that Fluttershy is abandoning him. Just have Chrysalis change into Fluttershy and you have her controling Discord like a weapon.

 

The only real Mary Sue in this series is Celestia with no development but still trying to act as "wise godmother" and autohority to all Equestrians. The only more bland characterisation than her is Flash in Equestria Girls.

 Nah, i didnt call him Mary Sue but he certainly has Sue-liked power. He just likes some "ban or use it" card to solve problems that make any threats in the future less thrilling. Even they try to write him out just like Spike in Cutie Map doesnt help...

  Our Ponies have Cutie Map, Element of Harmony, 4 Allicorns and Discord.... Damn, need some balance here. =]]

  Hope Starlight can survive Discord's god-like finger snap =[[. 

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,331]

It's time for the Mary Sue show where we will pick characters that aren't actually Mary Sues, but we're just gonna say so.

 

That's right, Batman is a Mary Sue because he can beat the Joker. This is my entire argument.

 

 

In all seriousesness, stop throwing around the term in wrong places.

[Castle Bleck 19,390]

Hope Starlight can survive Discord's god-like finger snap =[[.

 

If Tirek was crafty enough to avoid that, then...

Edited May 27, 2015 by A.V.

[cider float 2,539]

By this same logic nearly every comic book superhero and quite a few anime/manga heroes could be called Mary Sues/Gary Stus as well. Yes a character who is overpowered to the point where it dosen't make sense for the story is a type of Mary Sue but Discord dosen't fit that category. Discord is the MLP equivalent of a trickster god like Loki, Wiraqucha, or Seth, the only reason why he is not called a "god" is because it is not a politically correct term. Simply put he represents chaos itself which is a force of nature, arguably one of the most powerful forces of nature. What makes a character a Mary Sue or not is character traits but it is also characterization or the role a character plays in the story. If Discord was a main character as opposed to a secondary character than he would be a tad closer to that status.

Actually... lots of DC Comics and Marvel character end up getting written up Mary Suish, that is a common criticism in those fandoms.

 

 

 

It's time for the Mary Sue show where we will pick characters that aren't actually Mary Sues, but we're just gonna say so.

 

That's right, Batman is a Mary Sue because he can beat the Joker. This is my entire argument.

 

 

In all seriousesness, stop throwing around the term in wrong places.

 

Sigh.... Batman cannot snap his fingers and beat someone.

 

And it seems lots of people are defending a character just because they like that character being a Mary Sue because they just like that character... uh huh

Edited May 27, 2015 by cidershield

[Mesme Rize 15,687]

Actually... lots of DC Comics and Marvel character end up getting written up Mary Suish, that is a common criticism in those fandoms.

 

Then millions of people, who love superheroes like Spiderman, Iron Man, Thor, Batman, Superman, The X-Men, etc. must all have bad tastes, right?

 

[Castle Bleck 19,390]

Sigh.... Batman cannot snap his fingers and beat someone.

 

Yeah.

 

Everyone knows he has to have prep time before he's able to go Chuck Norris on everybody.

Edited May 27, 2015 by A.V.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

If Tirek was crafty enough to avoid that, then...

Discord cant fall into the same tricks again... He isnt ss4 Discord. Starlight should be more crazy-prepared and learn more OP spell, lol... She cant even beat Spike anyway..... =]]

[Jeric 46,869]

Ok, here is the deal ... a little off topic discussion is OK in my book, but when it is both the based on 'why does this topic exist?' and comments referencing post history elsewhere, it derails the entire thread. This is a discussion on whether or not Discord can and should be classified as a Gary Stu (Mary Sue) character. If you feel that way ... fine. If not fine. Both opinions have the freedom on this forum to exist and be discussed.

 

Respect the other opinion even if you disagree. 

 

 

This is back and open.

[Nuke87654 1,849]

But seriously, Discord in my opinion is not a Gary Stu because he actually goes through development and gets put into spotlights where he is proven wrong and learns from his errors to become a better person (ala his character is challenged).

 

A Mary Sue is a character that suffers little to no challenge to her beliefs by either the characters or the story clearly shows her views in a positive light regardless, contorts a universe to fit to her power even if said universe says it's not possible by other characters, is said to be unbeatable in battle without showing the great lengths and development said character went through to achieve such power,  her actions are considered good or great by other characters even though their logic is totally wrong or can be disproved as being terrible, those who view her as being wrong or terrible are portrayed as terrible people despite their actions not indicating anything bad other than disagreeing with the mary sue, and finally characters who normally wouldn't like such characters suddenly love and treat them with reverence simply for who they are rather than what they've done to earn such respect.

 

Just because Discord is very powerful doesn't mean he's a mary sue as being powerful =/= mary sue as you can create very powerful characters that are likable and well developed through what they had to go through in their story rather than try to make him straight up all powerful with little to no challenges to him.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Nuke87654

[cider float 2,539]

Then millions of people, who love superheroes like Spiderman, Iron Man, Thor, Batman, Superman, The X-Men, etc. must all have bad tastes, right?

 

I already sent this person the mail but here's it.

 

Characters that go from being weak to becoming strong over the course of their story is not the same as a Mary Sue from the beginning.

 

Naruto is a good example of a Mary Sue done right. He starts out the weakest and dumbest ninja in his village than becomes stronger and smarter later... but still have some flaws.

 

No doubt there are people that like a character that is Mary Sue from the beginning. But what they like (like Superman) is excusable because Superman was one of the first Mary Sues and is iconic.

 

 

 

But seriously, Discord in my opinion is not a Gary Stu because he actually goes through development and gets put into spotlights where he is proven wrong and learns from his errors to become a better person (ala his character is challenged).

 

A Mary Sue is a character that suffers little to no challenge to her beliefs by either the characters or the story clearly shows her views in a positive light regardless, contorts a universe to fit to her power even if said universe says it's not possible by other characters, is said to be unbeatable in battle without showing the great lengths and development said character went through to achieve such power,  her actions are considered good or great by other characters even though their logic is totally wrong or can be disproved as being terrible, those who view her as being wrong or terrible are portrayed as terrible people despite their actions not indicating anything bad other than disagreeing with the mary sue, and finally characters who normally wouldn't like such characters suddenly love and treat them with reverence simply for who they are rather than what they've done to earn such respect.

 

Just because Discord is very powerful doesn't mean he's a mary sue as being powerful =/= mary sue as you can create very powerful characters that are likable and well developed through what they had to go through in their story rather than try to make him straight up all powerful with little to no challenges to him.

Flaw in personality plays a very minor role in the talk of power levels. I'm talking about Discord's ability to snap things into existence or out of existence. He can fix problems in a snap. He even pulled out all the valuables out of the Smooze unscathed like they weren't even damaged and stopped it like that. There doesn't seem to be a limit in his power whatsoever.

Edited May 28, 2015 by cidershield

[Nuke87654 1,849]

I already sent this person the mail but here's it.

 

Characters that go from being weak to becoming strong over the course of their story is not the same as a Mary Sue from the beginning.

 

Naruto is a good example of a Mary Sue done right. He starts out the weakest and dumbest ninja in his village than becomes stronger and smarter later... but still have some flaws.

 

No doubt there are people that like a character that is Mary Sue from the beginning. But what they like (like Superman) is excusable because Superman was one of the first Mary Sues and is iconic.

 

 

 

Flaw in personality plays a very minor role in the talk of power levels. I'm talking about Discord's ability to snap things into existence or out of existence. He can fix problems in a snap. He even pulled out all the valuables out of the Smooze unscathed like they weren't even damaged and stopped it like that. There doesn't seem to be a limit in his power whatsoever.

 

Your definition on what is a mary sue is extremely narrow visioned as you seem to interpret any character that is more powerful than other characters in their series to being mary sues when no it isn't. Being powerful and even over powered does not mean a character is a mary sue by any stretch as many characters with alot of powers can be great characters and not annoying mary sues while there are mary sues who don't have any powers but fall under such definition simply for how much impact they have on the story and how they're treated ideally despite going against the story's narrative in many circumstances simply to accommodate said mary sue. Bella from Twilight is a noted example of a mary sue who isn't a power house but yet exerted such great influence and control over many folks and individuals simply because they wish to protect this one supposed average teenager that one of their own kin decides to fall head over heels for.

 

On my point for why Discord isn't a mary sue despite being powerful, I'll quote Coffee Pony's post that I've yet to see you counter to validate my belief on the matter.

 

Being a near god-like being does not a mary sue (or in this case, Marty Stu) make. There's quite a bit more to it than that.

 

Discord doesn't meet the criteria because while he is a godlike being he has his weaknesses. As a villain he was extremely arrogant in thinking that nobody could beat him and that arrogance ended up being his downfall twice. When he was supposed to be capturing Tirek he ended up being corrupted by Tirek's charasima and allied himself with him showing just how weak-minded Discord is. Not only that, Discord actually believed that Tirek was his friend and ended up only learning his lesson about who his real friends were when Tirek stabbed him in the back. In the last episode he displayed just how possessive he is and needed Fluttershy to chew him out. To say that he's a Marty Stu is quite wrong.