There's a Lack of Good Male Characters

[Cwanky 17,652]

Following the mess that was Princess Spike, it dawned upon me that Spike is the only significant male supporting/lead character in FiM. Big MacIntosh is relegated to Applejack episodes and otherwise barely speaks or does enough for us to know much about him. Prince Shining Armor while playing an important role as Twilight's big brother, is often notably absent and almost always otherwise plays second fiddle to Princess Cadence. 

 

While Discord is worth mentioning as a major male character, he doesn't fill the role as a supporting or lead character like Spike does. Discord warrants a major discussion of his own.

 

That leaves us with poor Spike, who consistently appears not just with Twilight, but with the rest of the Mane 6 and in the openings. Every season there's about 2-3 episodes devoted to or involving Spike. He's also consistently appeared in the majority of episodes, and I don't mean as a background character either.

 

 

Sadly that clip sums up Spike's role in the series, unintentional as it may be. He's a perpetual, doormat, punching bag, scapegoat and running gag. His character is rarely given the true respect it deserves both by the writers and characters on the show. Spike is thus stuck with being very virtuous and good-hearted, but stuck with poor characterization as a child and at the receiving end of both jokes and blame as Princess Spike shows.

 

Beyond Spike we really don't get much either in terms supporting characters. Big Mac is simply too much of a second fiddle to Applejack and even Granny Smith to have much impact and Shining Armor is Cadence's bitch. Discord does show a lot of potential as a major male character, especially given his unique status as an anti hero, but time will tell how much of a role he can play.

 

FiM is still obviously directed at "little girls" and hence the protagonists are all female and I know some are hyped up on the "girl power" feminism aspect of the show. But if the show is to have male characters, they should at least get equal respect and not relegated to neglect and just gag roles a la Snip and Snails. If Spike really is a dragon, I insist that the show actually treat him more as one and not some as some pony pleasing whipping boy. 

[SolyWack 482]

But alas, not every star may grant you a wish. People still follow the "ew cooties" aspect of cartoons, so there CAN NOT, in anyway, no how, how could you even think it, (obvious sarcasm is obvious) be an important male character in the show.

[A Black Circle 1,586]

In almost every other show, there's a lack of good female characters.

 

Be glad it's this instead of the opposite.

[Conred 274]

I think Discord is a good male character. He started to have episodes focused on him so it's not like he need to be in every episode in the background to be considered a lead male character. Spike is not even a proper "male" lead character but more like a leading "child" character as he is more focused on being a kid than being a man

[Chara 1,565]

As we all know MLP FiM is a very feminine show and they try to keep most of the characters girls. 

[Pineapple Bloom 511]

That's just the way it is with Western cartoons, I guess. XD Though, I notice good male characters with significant roles in feminine animes.

[Moonlight 7,289]

Now you know how females feel in almost everything when there's nothing but males and maybe one female if you're lucky (and whom usually has the personality of a cardboard box)    

[1234zua 19]

There are many shows that treat the female characters a lot worse than how this show treats the males, and I rarely see those shows getting bashed.

[UnknownFry 169]

There are several respectable male characters on the show, but the discrepancy is to be expected considering who the show primarily targets as far as demographics are concerned.

 

Some of the more notable male characters include....

 

Fancy Pants

Big McIntosh

Shining Armor

Discord 

Bulk Biceps

Edited June 28, 2015 by UnknownFry

[Concerned Bystander 2,904]

It's already been covered but what the heck, I'm going to stick my tuppence worth in anayway.

 

The program's key target demographic is young girls, and in this regard it is far from unique in having predominantly female characters, just look at things like Winx Club and Fifi and the Flowertots to name but two examples.

 

Given all of the above it stands to reason that female characters are going to get most of the limelight.  There have been exceptions though, the best example being "The Cuite Map" where the mane six would not have prevailed but for the help of Party Favor and Double Diamond amongst others.

 

We have to remember that as Bronies we are essentially guests at someone else's party, and it would be improper to complain about the show being formatted as it is.  If it was such a big issue there wouldn't be so many of us "other fans" watching the program.

[Envy 6,278]

MLP:FiM was created primarily for girls. It was created, per Faust's words, to show to girls - through the diverse female cast - that there are many different ways to be a girl, and that none of them are wrong.

 

I'm sick and tired of guys complaining that there are few good male characters in the show. For goodness sake, you have great male characters in pretty much everything else. As for me, I find it hard to relate to characters of my own gender in a lot of media, and it's so refreshing to have a show where I identify with the female characters and actually for once have a female character as my top favorite.

 

There's nothing wrong with men watching this show, but please... Respect that this wasn't created to cater to you. This is one reason that people hate Bronies, and it certainly has hurt my opinion of Bronies too.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Envy

[The Nth Doctor 664]

At this point, I'm rather disappointed that every male character turns into another partner for Braeburn

 

Granted, if they ever show a male character having interest in a female, the backlash from the fandom is on par with what is currently happening in America

 

Poor Party Favor

[Ribbonfree 2,384]

I think we're all forgetting a very important male character:

 

 

 

 

 

[ManaMinori 4,146]

At this point, I'm rather disappointed that every male character turns into another partner for Braeburn

Granted, if they ever show a male character having interest in a female, the backlash from the fandom is on par with what is currently happening in America

Poor Party Favor

they' ve already shown male characters having interest in females....Spike showing affection for Rarity, Trenderhoof showing affection for AJ, Big Mac to Cherilee, Mr Cake to Mrs Cake...

and no one backlashed

[Alto 437]

as the others stated cause it was a show created to empower girls of course we prolly wont see any males taking a significant role aside from being an occasional villian

Edited June 29, 2015 by Alto

[The Nth Doctor 664]

they' ve already shown male characters having interest in females....Spike showing affection for Rarity, Trenderhoof showing affection for AJ, Big Mac to Cherilee, Mr Cake to Mrs Cake...

and no one backlashed

I meant implied affection

Sorta like Vinyl and Octavia and Lyra and Bon Bon

[Lexamena 391]

I think with Slice of Life in particular, a few good male characters were used. Cranky, Dr Whooves, Gummy, and Steven Magnet even came through in the end. 

[Gearbox10mm 794]

Spike gets played up for comedy because he is the tag-along sidekick, not because he is male.

 

Male characters are being used more and more in the show. Take Party Favor and Double Diamond from the season opener and Dr. Whooves from the 100th for example.  

 

The balance between the sexes has definitely become more even as far as number of characters goes, and there have been more good male characters used lately, Trouble Shoes also comes to mind. Now if you expect there to be a host of male characters that outshine the main cast I think you will be disappointed because that would undermine much of the original concept of the show itself. The show will always be female centric and that is exactly how it needs to stay.   

[ButterKingPyromaniac 86]

"Eeyup!"

-Big Macintosh

I think they could have done better.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 42,014]

I actually agree with this to a slight extent. The lack of main male characters is a bit troubling to me but the cast of male support characters makes up for that in spades. Cheese Sandwich, Discord, Big Mac, Braeburn, Shining Armor (he is a bit generic to me but it works), characters like that make up for it, especially since, as others have said, this is a show that was originally created to target the female demographic. With that, I will say that is has to be the best cartoon that I have seen with that purpose. It is absolutely top notch in terms of a cartoon that has a mostly female main cast. As we know, many of those have been pretty dreadful in the past.

[Revy 184]

Because we totally watch a show called my little pony for the masculinity right? 

[manic 121]

Because we totally watch a show called my little pony for the masculinity right? 

 

 

YEAHHH

 

(seriously though, I wouldn't mind seeing some more male interaction - and I want more Braeburn )

[Dark Qiviut 22,527]

In almost every other show, there's a lack of good female characters.

 

Be glad it's this instead of the opposite.

Now you know how females feel in almost everything when there's nothing but males and maybe one female if you're lucky (and whom usually has the personality of a cardboard box)    

There are many shows that treat the female characters a lot worse than how this show treats the males, and I rarely see those shows getting bashed.

Just because the lack of (well-rounded) female roles occur often in "masculine" shows doesn't make it okay for Friendship Is Magic or any other "feminine" show to do the opposite. One of modern media's biggest flaws is how a product that caters to specific genders and ideologies can't feature a prominent role for the opposite sex. Silver-Quill addressed this in After the Fact: Flash Sentry, exemplifying Assassin's Creed: Unity's lack of women. He also called out Friendship Is Magic for its lack of likeable, fully-fledged male characters. Whenever a male character is introduced, they're often very unlikeable, treated terribly by the writers, or both. For a show intended to be pro-feminist, this is a very notable flaw.

 

The program's key target demographic is young girls,

Wrong. FIM is a unisex program. Attracted to kids and adults regardless of age or gender like G1. Even though it's about being demonstrating many ways to be a girl (more so a person), it's blind to gender.

 

We have to remember that as Bronies we are essentially guests at someone else's party, and it would be improper to complain about the show being formatted as it is. If it was such a big issue there wouldn't be so many of us "other fans" watching the program.

1. To compare adult bronies as guest is a lot like telling guests "my way or the highway." It's an inherent guilt trip. Adult bronies are as much a part of the audience as kid bronies. Why? Because we're all united under a love for the show like Disney/Pixar for their animated films. Calling adult bronies guests sends unfortunate implications to them and kids, implying how they don't belong. Kids are the base demographic, but all demographics are shared.
2. This has been talked about in corners of this fandom and forum for sometime. This is just one topic. Princess Spike really re-ignited it by how Spike, the only main male character, is reverted to being the punching bag. More people are calling it out here because it's the same thing, and many, myself included, are getting tired of it.

I'm sick and tired of guys complaining that there are few good male characters in the show. For goodness sake, you have great male characters in pretty much everything else.

People wouldn't complain over the lack of good male characters if the majority of male characters either are poorly written or suck in general.

1. Snips & Snails: Annoying stereotypes. In EQG, they were written as out-of-character villains. This is an epitome of how not to write a character, especially in a show designed to teach morals.
2. Diamond Dogs: Brutish idiots who were written only for the moral. Unfortunately, the moral of how just because you're a lady doesn't mean you mean you're helpless is undercut by the shortcut.
3. Flim Flam Brothers: Very funny, but then made themselves look like complete fools in their return thanks to their transparent scheme.
4. The teenaged dragons: These are stereotypical "masculine" boys. Complacent, stupid, brutish, rude, selfish, disregarding of life, part of a very xenophobic moral. Like Snips & Snails, an epitome of how not to write a character for educational shows. Dragon Quest is why you have no more mythology about these creatures.
5. Shining Armor: A very flat character, shoved into the episode without fanfare just to create a toy out of him. Rather than developing him, he's been relegated to the background in favor of his wife.
6. Flash Sentry: Already wrote why this secondary character sucks.
7. Bulk Biceps: While he was good in Hurricane Fluttershy and Wonderbolts Academy, he suddenly was incapable of flying, tone deaf, stupid, and couldn't care less about the Equestrian Games.
8. Silver Shill: Generic personality and weak resolve.
9. Big Mac: Originally a quiet, intelligent character of few words, reduced to a constant "eeyup!" gag.
10. Trouble Shoes: He's supposed to be a very humorous character. But his clumsiness could've hurt somebody, and then the episode switched it into a comedy. In addition, he wanted to be taken seriously, but the episode paints him as some kind of joke.
11. The yaks: Stereotypes of vikings, Native Canadians, or both. Vikings due to their war-first ideology and climate. Natives because DHX is in Canada, the majority of the Canadian Natives live in the territories, warrior background, and primitive language.

Spike is his own category. He is the only main male star of the show, and he's also a completely different species. In other words, you can expand a completely different point of view in Equestria. But there are several major flaws:

1. The majority of his stories are completely clichéd. While even the Cutie Mark Crusaders are given more unique conflicts and episodes, he's stuck with the same stories you can find in other shows. Sometimes his episodes are worse than those episodes. Dragon Quest is a clichéd episode, but (from what I read) Gravity Falls handles it better.
2. His character continues to be flanderized. Instead of being the lovable, snarky, competent, hard-working dragon, he's literally Murphy's Law. Sometimes, his screwups come from his stupidity.
3. Spikabuse. Far too often, his character's under the subject of many, many terrible jokes at his expense. This is an even bigger problem in his episodes, mainly the three Spike torture porns: Owl's Well, Just for Sidekicks, and Princess Spike. His character's not a punching bag for lazy comedy. If you treat the female casts one manner, you treat him the same.

Princess Spike is where the complaints have been the loudest, and for good reason. Every other main character has grown, but Spike's resets once the credits roll. Instead of treating him with some level of respect, the writers imply a lack of faith in the character and lack of effort in giving him quality character development. Princess Spike is the first episode where they all but admitted it to the viewers. How? Through the final cut:

 

C&P'd from my Princess Spike analysis:

But despite all the problems, the approach to giving Spike his recognition was really sweet. When he tried to rebuild the statue and failed, all of the delegates united with him. Cadance said it best: No matter how much you play your part, you're as important as everypony else. During the last part of her speech, she looked at Spike sincerely, implying to both him and the audience how important he is to everyone. Even with all the torture porn in this episode, at least he has his moment at the end…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

…But this tasteless joke fucking ruins it!

• The imagery is disgusting. It was already painful to see Spike's eyes swell from allergies the first and second time around. The poor dragon suffered enough. Why overwhelm him — and the audience, by extension — by reviving it once the moral is resolved? Damn it, the later the scene, the more the grosser details hurt.
• DHX confirms to the audience how much of a punchline Spike is. Even though the audience can assume he's a constant joke, the resolution gave the audience faint hope that Spike is more than a one-dimensional piñata. That he's as equal a character as the Cutie Mark Crusaders. Instead, the only main male character is relegated to a sideshow who does nothing but get himself into situations where he'll badly screw up.

   

  What worsens this implication is how FIM is supposed to be a pro-feminist show. A show with proud, unique qualities that can attract all sorts of demographics. A show that teaches us new techniques of masculinity and femininity without being tied down to sex. The morals are supposed to reach out to people young and old. When the morals are really mature, kids are respected. One of its most important morals is to be yourself. By endlessly punishing Spike and making him suffer long after he learns his lesson, kids are being told how meaningless the show's morals are. Even after you learn your lesson, karma will still bite you back. Spike is a really unique character, as he's the only dragon and male/boy of the main cast, so there's ample opportunity to bring a fresh perspective of Equestrian society. With this scene, DHX tells longtime and first-time watchers that being different means the show can make a complete ass out of you, and you will like it.

My question to you is this: What does this teach children? What does this teach parents of children? For me, being ordinary is the way to live. Sticking out from the crowd and being yourself makes you inaccessible. Having a fresh voice in life invalidates your existence. Say I'm a father of a young kid and want to find a good cartoon show for him/her and me to watch together. If this was my first episode of Friendship Is Magic, I would feel horrified, never let my kid watch the show again, and not recommend it to other people in my inner circle.

 

In addition, what does this teach in the name of feminism? Remember, feminism is bringing all genders at an equal level. This scene asks the viewer where Friendship Is Magic stands for as a feminist icon. For me, this scene confirmed a major hit in its credibility. How? Because it implies a return to the status quo for Spike in a rather daring product. As the rest of his friends mature, he's stuck and will have his character reset for the next episode, maybe in another clichéd episode with another clichéd setup with the possibility of characters as stereotypical as the bullies from Dragon Quest, Snips and Snails from Boast Busters, or Tree Hugger from Make Friends But Keep Discord. For he's different in both species and gender, this scene doesn't furnish feminism, but anti-feminism instead. To echo @Wind Chaser and merge his thoughts with mine, the scene and aforementioned episode epitomize hypocrisy in a show that champions individuality and challenges the status quo, two main goals of third-wave feminism. Season five has dared to move in a fresh direction with their characters, plots, and morals. Despite being imperfect, it earns credit for advancing in this path. To suggest a return to the status quo for the only main male character and not even attempt to hide it calls the ethics of FIM's canon and production into question.

 

This is one reason that people hate Bronies, and it certainly has hurt my opinion of Bronies too.

You're objectively wrong. There are no good reasons to hate bronies. Like it or not, this ain't good enough, either. Until more male characters are treated with respect, those complaints will continue, and rightfully so. Don't scapegoat the bronies for the anti-bronies' sexism. Blame the anti-bronies for enforcing these gender politics and not critically thinking why adult bronies complain about the way many males are given the short end of the stick. And blame yourself for sucking up to the anti-bronies' sexist lies.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

We don't need to force male characters into strong roles right offhand, but it would be mutually beneficial to the female characters as well to at least portray the existing male characters with a bit more dignity than what the most prominent male characters get as gag characters and virtual non-presences.

 

Seasons 4 and 5 definitely took some steps towards more fair portrayals of male characters with examples like Cheese Sandwich, Discord, Party Favor, and Double Diamond. These characters run in contrast of the usual portrayals of male characters as afterthoughts at best and ineffective, even hindering at worst. They subtly imply the important lesson that it's okay to appeal to help from the opposite gender, contrary to what those who can't swallow their pride try to say in that doing so makes you look weak. It works toward breaking down the gender barrier by showing that both genders can share space rather than fighting for it. It makes the female characters stronger also in showing that they can work on the same level as a male equivalent without having to take the male character out of the equation. Pinkie Pie could party on Cheese Sandwich's level, and nothing had to be taken away from Cheese Sandwich to show that.

 

Conversely, Seasons 4 and 5 also had plenty of bad examples as well, reducing Big Mac to a gag, relegating Shining Armor to background noise, and of course what's been happening to Spike.

 

All the show has any duty to do is to be fair to its characters as the implied messages mean a lot. This is not a bid by males to take over the show, and anyone who feels the slightest bit threatened by a male having any sort of power, responsibility, or showing any sort of consistent prowess in their roles without compromising others' success needs to grow a thicker skin and learn to be tolerant.

[Envy 6,278]

You're objectively wrong. There are no good reasons to hate bronies. Like it or not, this ain't good enough, either. Until more male characters are treated with respect, those complaints will continue, and rightfully so. Don't scapegoat the bronies for the anti-bronies' sexism. Blame the anti-bronies for enforcing these gender politics and not critically thinking why adult bronies complain about the way many males are given the short end of the stick. And blame yourself for sucking up to the anti-bronies' sexist lies.

 

Oh, please. This view of mine has nothing to do with the "anti-Bronies" you speak of. It has to do with my experience having been on this forum for the past four years. I came to form negative opinions toward the fandom entirely from my experiences on this forum.

 

I suppose I came into this show for entirely different reasons than the members of this fandom. It was the words I paraphrased Faust having said in my last post that was the deciding reason as to why I'd try out the show. So I started with a different view. I don't care too much about fully-fleshed out male characters. That's not why this show was made. It IS slightly annoying when a prominent character like Spike gets treated like he did in Princess Spike... But at the end of the day it's not a big deal to me.